Board index » Non Phoenix Wright » Police Station

Page 5 of 18[ 700 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next
 


Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Do you see the black one...or the white?

Gender: Male

Location: IN SPACE!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Posts: 6664

Nah, I believe you used the term correctly, Cat. I've heard the saying before growing up, but I guess it's not as common as it once was.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 am

Posts: 864

I'm playing Final Fantasy IV again and zOMG, the dialogues from this game are so dumb. Not saying the game is overall bad, but the dialogues... (what is yes, understandable, since the game is from 1991)
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

dangerousoffender wrote:
I'm playing Final Fantasy IV again and zOMG, the dialogues from this game are so dumb. Not saying the game is overall bad, but the dialogues... (what is yes, understandable, since the game is from 1991)

Are you playing the original SNES version? Because in that, the script only managed to keep roughly 25% of the original dialogue in the translation. It was re-translated for the GBA/PSP port, and again for the DS remake. The latter's script is about as accurate as it gets.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Close enough...

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14145

sumguy28 wrote:
The few complaints I have made towards this game after twenty five hours no longer matter. FFXII is my new favorite Final Fantasy game.
Ok, not really, but still, a villain who isn't portrayed as purely insane, purely evil, or mind controlled? Count me in!


Vayne is only a villain by perspective, from the Royals of the country he conquered and the family members of those who died in the plot. Yeah he might be using superpowered weapons that were never meant for human hands but they don't run the risk of destroying the planet in using them and there's no nasty human sacrifices or anything needed to use them.

Early in the game he conquers the city of Rabanastre and makes an announcement about how the city is noble and he pays tribute to the fallen rulers and the city's people. Here's his speech if you want it in full. The people take well to his speech and sure enough in the length of time throughout the game, Rabanastre remains a fully functioning city, sure there's some administrative changes probably but the people are treated well and respected.

FFXII has some EVIL villains but the main villain can't be called that by any means.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
favourite version of final fantasy 4Topic%20Title
User avatar

OBJECTION.I object that is objectionable

Gender: Male

Location: UK

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:20 am

Posts: 202

*topic* between . snes,ps1,ds,psp,wii vitual console and why.

Mine is the ds version as it is based off the japanese difficulty for extra challange has awesome graphics and good voice acting and the remixed music is amazing I also like the extra segment when you control Golbez in the past.
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth- Sherlock Holmes
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Do you see the black one...or the white?

Gender: Male

Location: IN SPACE!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Posts: 6664

For FFIV, out of the versions I've played (haven't touched the PSP), I'll go with the DS version. While the graphics are a little meh, my favorite thing about it was how they changed all the boss strategies, which really screwed me up being used to the original FFIV, but it was a good change because the game felt fresh again. I enjoyed the voice acting too, I was surprised it actually added to some of the scenes. While I don't think some of the remixed music sounds better, there are some tracks that I actually found that I liked better remixed, preferably those that rocked the base. The Four Fiends and the basic boss fight themes were fantastic, and I also enjoyed Troia's remix a lot. I even liked the parts that they added to the story, it didn't feel too stupid or tacked on for me.

Some complaints I had about the game was the flowery "archaic" language the game used at times, though the texts flowed quite nicely. I also didn't care too much for some of the instrument choices used in some of the remastered music, but it wasn't bad.

If I were to play a definitive version though, I'd probably go with the PSP version from what I've seen, but the DS one is great for the changes in battle and I like the ability allocation system they use. As for the worst version, that easily goes to the GBA version. All those bugs and glitches in that game made it very unplayable. Seeing as the PSP version added the extra stuff from the GBA version, there is no reason to ever go back to that terrible version again.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

I had played the DS remake of FFIV from start to finish first, then looked at the others. I never noticed any bugs in the GBA version, but I had quit playing after reaching Mysidia. From what I've seen of the PSP port, it's basically the GBA version, with the remixed music and some high quality effects. I know the PSP port also included Interlude and The After Years, but I didn't bother going too far in either of those. But that original SNES version though, translating "summoner" as "caller"...

Though I have to say, the best part of the DS remake was clearly this moment. Italics may denote sarcasm.
Quote:
Vayne is only a villain by perspective, from the Royals of the country he conquered and the family members of those who died in the plot. Yeah he might be using superpowered weapons that were never meant for human hands but they don't run the risk of destroying the planet in using them and there's no nasty human sacrifices or anything needed to use them.

Early in the game he conquers the city of Rabanastre and makes an announcement about how the city is noble and he pays tribute to the fallen rulers and the city's people. Here's his speech if you want it in full. The people take well to his speech and sure enough in the length of time throughout the game, Rabanastre remains a fully functioning city, sure there's some administrative changes probably but the people are treated well and respected.

FFXII has some EVIL villains but the main villain can't be called that by any means.

I'm only about twenty five hours in to FFXII (still grinding to get past the Elder Wyrm), but this in particular is what I'm liking about Vayne. He's not crazy, he's not blatantly evil, he's not a manifestation of some negative aspect of humanity, he's just a guy expanding his empire while actually treating the citizens properly. As long as the game doesn't throw in some sobby backstory or last minute demonic possession, Vayne might turn out to be one of my favorite video game antagonists.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Do you see the black one...or the white?

Gender: Male

Location: IN SPACE!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Posts: 6664

@sumguy: Any scene where Edward gets slapped is a good scene.

As for the GBA version, I heard they fixed a lot of bugs for the European release. A lot of it had to do with the battle system. The ATB was super glitchy. It'd sometimes skip over characters turns or grant them two turns in a row. This would apply to both enemies and your party. I'm also pretty sure I'd get input mess up when targeting enemies sometimes as well. The ports for FFV and FFVI for the GBA were great, but the port for FFIV felt very lazily done. It's not unplayable by any means, but there are much better versions of the game out there.

I also thought I'd link this since we're talking about FFIV. There's this really neat translation comparison project that details the version differences of FFIV, mainly the SNES ones, but it also includes at times the PS1 version, the fan translation, and sometimes the DS and PSP. It's very detailed and a very good read. I'd recommend checking it out if you're a fan of FFIV.
http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/

It updates about once every month or so depending on the poster's free time and the amount of research and work it takes for each page.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

I once tried to play the DS version of IV undubbed on an emulator... it didn't work very well, so I gave up.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

The Chocolateholic of CR

Gender: Male

Location: Unknown

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:40 am

Posts: 2812

CatMuto wrote:
I once tried to play the DS version of IV undubbed on an emulator... it didn't work very well, so I gave up.

C-A


Dub much better. Such amazing voice actors..... *Doge face*
Image
The Dragovian King and Captain Of The Ragnarok Ship and Owner of The Ragnarok Ranch.
I'm a ♌ since 1990 of August 10th. Better Recognize.
3DS FC:2535-5065-3560
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Close enough...

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14145

Ha I'd forgotten how much I'd enjoyed those little cutscenes in FFIV, I remember hoping they'd give the FF5 and 6 Advance games the same treatment.

In any case my friend stands by the GBA version being incredible...as far as definitive goes I'd say the title would go to it for originating most of the content used in the PSP version. Course the PSP version is just an upgraded port so it's an easy choice what to get.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Anthony wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
I once tried to play the DS version of IV undubbed on an emulator... it didn't work very well, so I gave up.

C-A


Dub much better. Such amazing voice actors..... *Doge face*


I overall do not enjoy English Dubs anymore. Besides, I've heard IV's English voice actors in Dissidia and KAIN CAN GO F*** HIMSELF WITH HIS DAMN LIAM O'BRIEN VOICE! Also.... Yuri Lowenthal. *grumpy cat displeased face*

Although, I also played Dissidia in Japanese, so I also know Kain's Japanese voice... it doesn't help. I still hate that... *Sigh*

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Quote:
Quote:
it wasn't very inviting to follow a typical defy your fate and save the world story.


*shrug* For me, it started like a defy your fate, but whenever I see the ending of XIII, it always looks to me like they DID follow the focus/fate they were given. Check the focus vision and ending sequence, it's identical. The only ones who might have defied their fate are Vanilla and Fang.

Spoiler: end game spoilers
So Anima wanted the l'Cie to kill Orphan, then trap Cocoon in crystal stasis to prevent it from destroying Gran Pulse, while the few humans that did escape Cocoon (the ones who willingly went along with the army's attempts at evacuating the planet to go to the place they were all raised into thinking was hell) would start anew on Gran Pulse. In other words, Anima wanted to bring human life back to Gran Pulse. Fair enough, but 1. I don't recall there ever being any foreshadowing that Ragnarok was anything but destruction and 2. the vision is so vague and unclear, it's still looks like Ragnarok destroying Cocoon. How was anyone supposed to deduce that the vision was about putting a falling Cocoon into crystal stasis?

Aside from that, what does this mean for the meaning of the story? The protagonists tried there hardest to avoid the fate they were given, but in the end, they followed fate without realizing it? So, fate is there, regardless of whether or not you realize it? At the risk of sounding like a cynicist, I never really understood the point of believing that the future is already written. You can never know what the future has in hold for you, and regardless of whether or not something must happen, you will still make it happen even if you don't know it's going to happen. Which is why stories that talk about fate, whether it be positive or negative, just don't grasp me.
Speaking of Anima, there's still something I don't quite understand: this scene. From what I can gather, Light's realized that threatening her sister without even trying to reason with her was a foolish move, but that's not the part I wanted to talk about. By placing her hand on the door, Lightning knows that Serah is in control of the door. But why is Serah in control of the door? She's supposed to be held the Fal'Cie's prisoner, right? And if that's Anima tricking Lightning into thinking that Serah is in control of the door, then why can't Anima give a vision that clearly demonstrates a l'Cie's focus?
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

I don't recall said door ever being controlled by Sera, however indirectly. Lightning was trying to force her way through, which Anima probably saw as an attempt to injure him, so it closed the door off in order to protect itself. When Lightning asked nicely, without violence, it likely thought it was better to bring her there.

Also, how dare you demand a higher power in a videogame is actually straight forward and open with everything? :gant:

If the game was like that, any game, it would ruin all the mystery or uncertainty. Where's the fun in that? And if the group knew that their focus was to kill Orphan, practically ruin Cocoon but they'd be all happy and living on Pulse afterwards, the drama would be gone and they might even try to do the Focus early, without being strong enough for it. Besides, it wasn't Anima that branded the group, it was Pulse. Hard to tell, but it was revealed in a handbook, I think, I forget actually, that it was Pulse that branded the group and not Anima.

And the Fal'Cie plan - at least for Orphan and Barthy - was to kill Orphan/kill all of the humans so that The Maker (or rather Lindzei, since The Maker was made up for the English translation) would return to the Fal'Cie. Plus, they've been doing their duties for centuries, they're tired of being only able to do what they are told to do. They want to be freed. Which would've happened, had humanity died.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

CatMuto wrote:
Also, how dare you demand a higher power in a videogame is actually straight forward and open with everything? :gant:

This is why I usually don't have a high opinion of works of fiction where there's a higher power that's treated like an important character. They are almost always portrayed as fools or blatantly evil. I know it's supposed to be a step ahead of a work of fiction where a higher power is portrayed as the pinnacle of goodness, but even this gets old after a while.
Quote:
If the game was like that, any game, it would ruin all the mystery or uncertainty. Where's the fun in that? And if the group knew that their focus was to kill Orphan, practically ruin Cocoon but they'd be all happy and living on Pulse afterwards, the drama would be gone and they might even try to do the Focus early, without being strong enough for it.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "meaningful conflict is the source of drama." Even if there is some soul-crushing dramatic death on screen, if the premise to it was inherently flawed, then the viewer won't be able to feel the drama. That's kind of how I felt watching the cutscenes. Because if a l'Cie knew clearly what his/her focus was, there probably wouldn't have been as many Ceiths as there are.
Quote:
Besides, it wasn't Anima that branded the group, it was Pulse. Hard to tell, but it was revealed in a handbook, I think, I forget actually, that it was Pulse that branded the group and not Anima.

What?
Seriously, WHAT? There were TWO Fal'Cie in the ruins? And the game makes no attempt to show this? Handbooks are for giving the little details about the characters and the world that would have been superfluous to mention in the story, not drop something that completely changes the meaning of a story.
Quote:
And the Fal'Cie plan - at least for Orphan and Barthy - was to kill Orphan/kill all of the humans so that The Maker (or rather Lindzei, since The Maker was made up for the English translation) would return to the Fal'Cie. Plus, they've been doing their duties for centuries, they're tired of being only able to do what they are told to do. They want to be freed. Which would've happened, had humanity died.

But in essence, it still boils down to "kill all humans." It may work the first time you see it, but when the series has already done it with Zemus, Kefka, and Seymour, it falls flat.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Quote:
But in essence, it still boils down to "kill all humans." It may work the first time you see it, but when the series has already done it with Zemus, Kefka, and Seymour, it falls flat.


...so? I fail to see the problem. I never said the story was good, I said the Defy Your Fate part was attempted, but ultimately subverted in XIII for me because the ending and focus vision are identical. Heck, FF has taken over overall story ideas before. I'm not complaining about that - if I did, it'd be like complaining that in a Zelda game, I have to help/rescue/save/find/(insert verb that somehow relates to) Zelda. It happens in every game, it's pointless to complain about that.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
But in essence, it still boils down to "kill all humans." It may work the first time you see it, but when the series has already done it with Zemus, Kefka, and Seymour, it falls flat.


...so? I fail to see the problem. I never said the story was good, I said the Defy Your Fate part was attempted, but ultimately subverted in XIII for me because the ending and focus vision are identical. Heck, FF has taken over overall story ideas before. I'm not complaining about that - if I did, it'd be like complaining that in a Zelda game, I have to help/rescue/save/find/(insert verb that somehow relates to) Zelda. It happens in every game, it's pointless to complain about that.

C-A

Because in a Zelda game, I usually just accept that the story is there and say "let's get on with the gameplay". With a Final Fantasy game, the story is the main focus, at least for XIII it is. So when an antagonist is portrayed as so evil, he must be stopped for wanting to kill all humans, it really makes me question if the game also wants me to believe that the antagonist is a horrible abomination that must be stopped when at this point I'm used to it. And it's not like this series has to have a villain that wants to kill all humans. I'm still in the middle of XII, but so far, the main antagonist has been portrayed just as morally gray as the protagonists. AND OMG IT FEELS SO REFRESHING TO HAVE A MORALLY GRAY NARRATIVE.

And I probably should have mentioned this before, but I don't think FFXIII is an objectively bad game. The gameplay works to get across what it needs to, there are several instances of gameplay and story integration noticeable in hindsight, the music is pretty decent, even if it wasn't composed by Nobuo Uematsu, and I can definitely see why you liked this game; I just personally didn't find the story very interesting (though my tastes are questionable at best).
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

The Chocolateholic of CR

Gender: Male

Location: Unknown

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:40 am

Posts: 2812

Final Fantasy will ALWAYS have that TWIST in the game.
Image
The Dragovian King and Captain Of The Ragnarok Ship and Owner of The Ragnarok Ranch.
I'm a ♌ since 1990 of August 10th. Better Recognize.
3DS FC:2535-5065-3560
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Ace Explorer

Gender: None specified

Location: The Yggdrasil Labyrinth

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:04 am

Posts: 737

Anthony wrote:
Final Fantasy will ALWAYS have that TWIST in the game.

And Cat will always use her video game clairvoyance to see it coming, and proceed to dock the story a point for being 'predictable'.
Image
Well? Are we going or what?
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Close enough...

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14145

Alonso Swift wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Final Fantasy will ALWAYS have that TWIST in the game.

And Cat will always use her video game clairvoyance to see it coming, and proceed to dock the story a point for being 'predictable'.


Well perhaps Cat does just have good foresight for this stuff.

I think Cat you just need to bear in mind not everyone does and therefore rather than a plot point being "Obvious" it's just that you have better foresight than other people.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

The Chocolateholic of CR

Gender: Male

Location: Unknown

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:40 am

Posts: 2812

Well That's Cat being Cat.
Image
The Dragovian King and Captain Of The Ragnarok Ship and Owner of The Ragnarok Ranch.
I'm a ♌ since 1990 of August 10th. Better Recognize.
3DS FC:2535-5065-3560
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

sumguy28 wrote:
So when an antagonist is portrayed as so evil, he must be stopped for wanting to kill all humans, it really makes me question if the game also wants me to believe that the antagonist is a horrible abomination that must be stopped when at this point I'm used to it.


I've said it before, I'd rather have a evil-to-the-bone villain again, rather than a villain with some sobby backstory that I'm supposed to sympathize with him and ignore that he killed people, destroyed homes and similar.

Quote:
And Cat will always use her video game clairvoyance to see it coming, and proceed to dock the story a point for being 'predictable'.


Well there are two types of twists in FF games.
1) the one that is easy to see if you notice patterns and clichés
2) the one that comes out of left field that had absolutely no foreshadowing or very little of it
Stuff like Auron being dead being the first, although that really was obvious, no denying it, and Tidus being a dream is kind of the latter.

Quote:
I think Cat you just need to bear in mind not everyone does and therefore rather than a plot point being "Obvious" it's just that you have better foresight than other people.


It's not so much foresight, but rather that I notice patterns, small details in things and such. Probably comes from reading a lot of books and playing a ton of games, after a while, you just notice this and that generally resulting in this plot twist. Unless it's a plot twist I made as a joke and it turns out it's real, that's just a sweet guess.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Do you see the black one...or the white?

Gender: Male

Location: IN SPACE!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Posts: 6664

I think the worst come out of left field moments in Final Fantasy easily go to the appearances of Cloud of Darkness in FF3 and Necron in FF9 (though I get the feeling that was a nod to the whole throw in a final boss bit.) FF4 isn't too far off with Zeromus, but at least you hear about him a full dungeon before fighting him. The other two though, you don't know of their existence until the very moment they are fought.

If we go by storyline, one moment I can think of that came out of left field for me was Zidane being a clone. Aside from him having a tail, the game gives no hints whatsoever aside from one scene in Black Mage Village where he talks about "seeing blue". Sure, you know something is up, but that whole genome clone thing was a surprise for me.

As for the Tidus thing, I'd consider that as 2.) as well, though the game gives a few more hints with consideration of him and Jecht starting about midway through the game. They're super vague and not at all as obvious as Auron, but it does drop a few more than my FF9 example. Nevertheless, still a complete surprise.


Also, about your villain thing Cat, going by your description, I'd gather Kefka and probably ExDeath fit your description since they're pretty much evil from day one and remain that way til the bitter end? No sobby backstory, just more justified killing/evil plotting in their backstories. Honestly, if it wasn't for the whole brain-washed bit, Golbez I think would definitely be a contender.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Quote:
Also, about your villain thing Cat, going by your description, I'd gather Kefka and probably ExDeath fit your description since they're pretty much evil from day one and remain that way til the bitter end? No sobby backstory, just more justified killing/evil plotting in their backstories. Honestly, if it wasn't for the whole brain-washed bit, Golbez I think would definitely be a contender.


Yes. It's a reason why I enjoy Kefka so much. He doesn't really have a backstory to explain his evil - there is an off-hand comment from one of the soldiers in the Empire about how Kefka was the first human infused with magic and that has turned him insane... but as said, it's off-hand, mentioned by a vague NPC and very easily forgotten, never to be brought up again.

Other than that, Kefka just does evil things because they amuse him. He's bored and frustrated with how long the Doma Operation takes, so he just poisons their entire water supply and gets rid of them all. He doesn't care that some of his own men are in the castle, held prisoner. He enjoys seeing them die and suffer. Kefka turns Espers into Magicite for power and fun. Yes, overall Power was also his goal, but he still had fun during it. Like kicking Gestahl off the floating continent.

ExDeath I don't recall being too much of a memorable villain, but I guess so. He just wanted void and power and void.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Ace Explorer

Gender: None specified

Location: The Yggdrasil Labyrinth

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:04 am

Posts: 737

CatMuto wrote:
It's not so much foresight, but rather that I notice patterns, small details in things and such.

...Isn't that basically what foresight is? Using the info already given to predict what may happen later on?
And as Pierre said, maybe you're just better at that than others.

But at this point, this is just a debate over semantics, and it's not really worth the energy. We can just agree that you're a seasoned reader/player and that it takes a lot for a plot point to surprise you without it coming out of nowhere at the last second.
Image
Well? Are we going or what?
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

CatMuto wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
So when an antagonist is portrayed as so evil, he must be stopped for wanting to kill all humans, it really makes me question if the game also wants me to believe that the antagonist is a horrible abomination that must be stopped when at this point I'm used to it.


I've said it before, I'd rather have a evil-to-the-bone villain again, rather than a villain with some sobby backstory that I'm supposed to sympathize with him and ignore that he killed people, destroyed homes and similar.

And I'd rather have an antagonist that fits Gray and Gray Morality. No need for sympathy, no "villain so evil he can't be human", no heroes portrayed as being morally right when they slaughter hundreds of soldiers just following orders; simply "Both sides have a strong, justifiable reason for fighting, and contain a mixture of people of all kinds, from admirable, upstanding individuals to vicious, slimy scumbags." It feels more realistic than the other variant. What the hell am I doing, asking for realism in a Final Fantasy game?
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Do you see the black one...or the white?

Gender: Male

Location: IN SPACE!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 pm

Posts: 6664

I kinda agree with Cat though. If I want to have a sympathetic villain, he better not be the main villain. The main villain needs to be all about being evil. After all, my goal in these games is to save the world and defeat the villain. If the villain is all sympathetic, it kinda destroys the whole motive in that regard. I'm all fine for a sympathetic villain, if he stops being the villain at most, halfway through the game.

For example, I was fine with Magus playing that role. Why? Because we had the big bad Lavos to motivate us throughout the whole game. If Magus would have stayed the threat, it'd feel less motivating because the game builds it up for you to feel sorry for him, and it wouldn't have been as effective. However, seeing as how we had Lavos, pure evil, threatening us consistently for the sake of being evil, it gave more motivation to want to go out and save the world.

Thinking about it, I should start using CT more as examples for points. That game did so many things right.


Yes, I'm a CT fanboy....
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Close enough...

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14145

dullahan1 wrote:
I kinda agree with Cat though. If I want to have a sympathetic villain, he better not be the main villain. The main villain needs to be all about being evil. After all, my goal in these games is to save the world and defeat the villain. If the villain is all sympathetic, it kinda destroys the whole motive in that regard. I'm all fine for a sympathetic villain, if he stops being the villain at most, halfway through the game.

For example, I was fine with Magus playing that role. Why? Because we had the big bad Lavos to motivate us throughout the whole game. If Magus would have stayed the threat, it'd feel less motivating because the game builds it up for you to feel sorry for him, and it wouldn't have been as effective. However, seeing as how we had Lavos, pure evil, threatening us consistently for the sake of being evil, it gave more motivation to want to go out and save the world.

Thinking about it, I should start using CT more as examples for points. That game did so many things right.


Yes, I'm a CT fanboy....


Yes sympathetic villains typically work when they eventually turn against a greater threat. Case in point other than CT would be Kain I suppose or perhaps Dr Eggman. We know he's evil and wants to conquer the world but we know he'll turn against a greater threat because he doesn't want to destroy the world, he wants to rule it.

When sympathetic villains ARE the main villain I think it typically works out in stories where the morality level is substantially lowered and the ending is meant to leave an uncertain taste in the mouth.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

sumguy28 wrote:
And I'd rather have an antagonist that fits Gray and Gray Morality. No need for sympathy, no "villain so evil he can't be human", no heroes portrayed as being morally right when they slaughter hundreds of soldiers just following orders; simply "Both sides have a strong, justifiable reason for fighting, and contain a mixture of people of all kinds, from admirable, upstanding individuals to vicious, slimy scumbags." It feels more realistic than the other variant. What the hell am I doing, asking for realism in a Final Fantasy game?


I admit, it would be great to see perfect shades of gray in a game, but the fact is, it so very rarely happens - and even if it happens, it's rarely done really good, so you still end up with a guy who is obviously still supposed to be "darker gray" than the other person.

Quote:
When sympathetic villains ARE the main villain I think it typically works out in stories where the morality level is substantially lowered and the ending is meant to leave an uncertain taste in the mouth.


Yes and No. Sometimes a sympathetic villain can work for me - Ygdrasill in Symphonia, for example. Yes, his idea is incredibly dumb but his goal was to resurrect his sister and show her a world of no discrimination towards Half Elves, Elves, Humans or anything else. Sure, his plan to do that was to use of humanity to turn into soul crystals and the other half to wear them and turn into lifeless beings, but the overall idea was there. Dumb way to do it, but nice enough in terms of thought. You can feel sorry for him, but it doesn't make his actions any less terrible.
He is offered the choice to give up on his plan and live with the half elves wherever they want, but he refuses to do so. Because he doesn't think his plan was actually wrong - he even says, if he had to choose again, he'd pick the same path he did before. Which gives him a sense of pride and dignity. A sympathetic villain who still chooses to do his evil things because he thinks he's right. And with the overall theme being racism, it does give you an uneasy feeling, but you can't help but admire him for it.

Then we have those sympathetic villains who you are supposed to feel sorry for and... they remain evil big bads, but really, where's the fun in killing this guy if even the party doesn't feel like killing him anymore? (Looking at you, Tales of Graces) There's no sense of accomplishment then because I'll just have to listen to the party lament on how they totally should never have hated that guy to begin with or similar... sympathetic villains can be nice if A) they don't appear everywhere all the time and B) they're done well. Which doesn't happen very often.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Quote:
Also that last part of XIII makes no sense. What reoccuring character?

The Eidolons. I only fully played IV and X before XIII, and there, they were my saving grace. In XIII, they're Transformers. THAT. IS. FUCKING. STUPID. EVEN FOR A FINAL FANTASY GAME. It removes the emotional impact of the end of chapter 8 with the image of Sazh being all happy driving a sports car, then immediately turning to shoot Vanille. Not to mention Alexander: why didn't he show up when Hope was trying to kill Snow? The point of Hope's character is that he wants revenge, even though he knows it's futile. The Shiva twins *FFFFFFFFFF* showed up to show Snow that he can't just charge head on into everything, Odin showed up to inform Light that she can't just throw away Hope, Alexander shows up to ... tell Hope not to give up. WHY? All the other Eidolons showed up at a turning point in the character's cliched and obvious development. Alexander just shows up because he forgot to show up at the right time.
And the excuse that if Light didn't threaten her sister (my friend's reasoning, not yours), then the game wouldn't happen? Well if she didn't threaten her sister, then Light, Serah, and Snow would have gone on a journey across Cocoon to find a way to undo the l'Cie curse. This set up allows for open exploration of Cocoon (I would rather explore Cocoon than read Cocoon's world history textbook), allows for Snow and Serah to receive proper characterization, and removes the bullshit twist that everything the protagonists did was because Barthandelus said so. For the amount of money put in to the advertising and development, this game is an abomination.
builderkid107 wrote:
I realize that this a tired topic from literally 200 pages ago but can I mention FFXIII one more time? Okay, the battle music is kick-ass, right? There's one thing, I guess.

Fine, this game is not a complete abomination.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Quote:
In XIII, they're Transformers.


That bothers you? I'm not denying that Sazh jumping into Bhyrni does not ruin the mood for a bit, but since it's a battle I like to pretend it didn't happen quite like that at the end. Story and Gameplay segregation and all. But then, what difference does it really make? Eidolons are basically Summon Spirits, Espers, and whatever else they were called in the previous FFs. They change, according to the game they are in. That's it.

Quote:
Alexander shows up to ... tell Hope not to give up. WHY? All the other Eidolons showed up at a turning point in the character's cliched and obvious development.


Eidolons show up when a l'Cie is under extreme duress/stress (I'm... not entirely sure what the difference with those words is) and close to despair, if not suicidal. Hope wasn't suicidal when he wanted to kill Snow, he was fueled by rage and grief. That's entirely different.

Alexander showed up on Pulse. Lots of people say that's where the game gets good, but I say - once again - people have to see things from Hope's perspective and it makes much more sense. To him, Pulse is terrible. While he realizes it isn't hell the way he's been told all this time while on Cocoon, it is completely cut off from Cocoon, completely wild and Hope is scared, cause of that. They're alone, they have literally no idea where to go anymore - and while that may have been true in the previous Chapters, they were at least in familiar territory - and his brand suddenly advanced even more, scaring him even more. It's likely Hope became a Stepford Smiler around that time and his brand advancing just broke his defenses and made him realize the entire futility of things.

Quote:
And the excuse that if Light didn't threaten her sister (my friend's reasoning, not yours), then the game wouldn't happen?


O...kay? I don't really see that, since I think even if Light hadn't reacted the way she did, Snow would've said "I'll be with you, Sera! Let's go back to that Fal'Cie and get more info on your Focus!" because he's a dumb hothead who does stupid stuff like this. I doubt it would've mattered much if Light had been along, she probably would've said "That's a dumb idea... but go right ahead" given that she might've realized it's the closest to an idea they had at the moment.

Quote:
Fine, this game is not a complete abomination.


I do have to say, complimenting an FF game on the music is kind of redundant... I mean, it's an FF game, it's bound to have good music. I can't think of a single FF game where the music was terrible. While I don't like XIII-2, I still admit I like majority of the music. Except for that heavy metal boss theme... and Caius' Theme, but that's more cause I hate the character.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Close enough...

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14145

Quote:
I do have to say, complimenting an FF game on the music is kind of redundant... I mean, it's an FF game, it's bound to have good music. I can't think of a single FF game where the music was terrible. While I don't like XIII-2, I still admit I like majority of the music. Except for that heavy metal boss theme... and Caius' Theme, but that's more cause I hate the character.


Eh after playing Theatrhythm for a bit I think FF2's music is kinda weak.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

CatMuto wrote:
That bothers you? I'm not denying that Sazh jumping into Bhyrni does not ruin the mood for a bit, but since it's a battle I like to pretend it didn't happen quite like that at the end. Story and Gameplay segregation and all. But then, what difference does it really make? Eidolons are basically Summon Spirits, Espers, and whatever else they were called in the previous FFs. They change, according to the game they are in. That's it.

I know this sounds weird, considering it's a JRPG and all, but I hate it when a game treats gameplay and story like they're two different things. This video sums it up.
Quote:
Eidolons show up when a l'Cie is under extreme duress/stress (I'm... not entirely sure what the difference with those words is) and close to despair, if not suicidal. Hope wasn't suicidal when he wanted to kill Snow, he was fueled by rage and grief. That's entirely different.

Hope knew that revenge doesn't change anything. He admitted as much in Chapter 2 while talking to Vanille. He was experiencing the disconnect between his grief and his rational side. That would put someone under a large amount of stress.
The other problem I have is that this would mean that Hope's important character development is realizing that Pulse is not hell. Weren't they all conditioned to believe that Pulse is hell? Why does this make Hope special?

Quote:
O...kay? I don't really see that, since I think even if Light hadn't reacted the way she did, Snow would've said "I'll be with you, Sera! Let's go back to that Fal'Cie and get more info on your Focus!" because he's a dumb hothead who does stupid stuff like this. I doubt it would've mattered much if Light had been along, she probably would've said "That's a dumb idea... but go right ahead" given that she might've realized it's the closest to an idea they had at the moment.

In the context of the narrative that was written, yes that's what would have happened. In the context of what the developers are making, this could have easily gone from there to Light, Snow and Serah traveling across Cocoon without being forced into a hallway. From there, the game could have given a lot more depth to Snow and Serah.
And uh, why did Serah not do that immediately after being branded? Whenever she was on screen, she was angsting that she had no idea what her focus was. Seeing how she was still inside the ruins, wouldn't she have tried to find out more about her focus? Oh wait, she has no character.

And remember when I said Barthandelus is an unsubtle metaphor for the Catholic Church? That's one of my biggest problems with this game. Upon closer inspection, the game is one giant one-sided anvilicious message that religion is bad. Replace "Fal'Cie" with "God" and this only becomes more apparent. The people have been conditioned to believe that all stuff from Pulse are evil? Bullshit. Believing in a religion does not render you incapable of thinking for yourself. In fact, why does no one object to the Purge? I hate to quote Spoony, but checking someone's skin for a l'Cie brand is much more rational than sending an entire town to their death. No where is this angle brought up.
Let me guess, do you kill Bhuni at the end of Lightning Returns?
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Quote:
Weren't they all conditioned to believe that Pulse is hell? Why does this make Hope special?


Light probably didn't believe it, Snow doesn't care and Sazh is too focused on his son (and is otherwise thinking "Anywhere is better than here" once Dajh goes into crystal stasis). Vanilla and Fang know it's not hell, so... yeah, Hope is still a kid and pretty impressionable, he was probably the only one who was really worried or believed Pulse to be hell. Also, I said Hope's defenses broke. I'm not saying Pulse =/= Hell is his development, his outbreak came from too much piling onto him. Which it has from the beginning of the game.

Quote:
Let me guess, do you kill Bhuni at the end of Lightning Returns?


Spoiler: LR Ending
Um, yes, no, probably, maybe... I've heard contradicting posts. Some say you do kill him, others say that Light doesn't actually kill him, she only beats him up enough to let go of Hope's soul/heart and Bhuni crystallizes... himself... in the final FMV...
I personally say you at least severely injure him. But then, that's mostly cause I quite frankly don't care what happens to him.


But then, if you want to say that, what about Final Fantasy X and Yu Yevon? You're basically beating the crap out of the person who is the center of the world's one and only religion. Besides, FFX - and FFXIII - are not the first or only games that have you basically giving the world's religion a middle finger and killing what equals to their God (or Gods, if multiple) by the end of the game.

C-A

PS: I was gonna say something about Sera, but you answered your own question. She has no character, so she has no drive to do anything unless told by someone else to do something or be given a goal. Present in XIII and in XIII-2.
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Quote:
Spoiler: LR Ending
Um, yes, no, probably, maybe... I've heard contradicting posts. Some say you do kill him, others say that Light doesn't actually kill him, she only beats him up enough to let go of Hope's soul/heart and Bhuni crystallizes... himself... in the final FMV...
I personally say you at least severely injure him. But then, that's mostly cause I quite frankly don't care what happens to him.

Spoiler:
Then I'm also guessing that the twist is that he's evil or a fool or blind something and that humans don't need God or some anvilicious message like that.

Quote:
But then, if you want to say that, what about Final Fantasy X and Yu Yevon? You're basically beating the crap out of the person who is the center of the world's one and only religion. Besides, FFX - and FFXIII - are not the first or only games that have you basically giving the world's religion a middle finger and killing what equals to their God (or Gods, if multiple) by the end of the game.

My problem isn't that it's anti-religion. I may still have my faith, but I'm completely okay with an anti-religion message. My problem is that in FFXIII, the message is entirely one-sided. Yes, religious fundamentalism is a bad thing, but the game acts like you can't have a religion without being a fundamentalist. In X, they at least have several discussions about their religion, why it worked in those circumstances for so long, and why it needed to be thrown away for the good of the people.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

Yes, there is such a message. But it might be because I do not have religion myself, but this message never bothered me. In fact, I am all for the idea of not requiring a god or similar. I wouldn't demand someone to change their religion or what not, but it doesn't bother me if a game is anti-religious or anything. Also, given how LR takes place, it's kind of not so "Religion is the only important thing". Sure it may seem like that towards the end, but not everyone in the LR world follows the Bhuni religion. And given what they've been through, they probably have other stuff to lethargically think about than religion.

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Look, even if a game has a message that I highly agree with, I still want the other side to be represented properly. Even if I agreed with the Metal Gear series' message of "nukes are bad", I still can't deny that the "nukes do have a purpose" side isn't represented all that well until Peace Walker. The point being that I have no problems with FFXIII's message itself; I have problems with how the game treats the other viewpoint as "must be evil".
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

sumguy28 wrote:
The point being that I have no problems with FFXIII's message itself; I have problems with how the game treats the other viewpoint as "must be evil".


As long as you have that same attitude towards other games with the "onesided message", whatever...

C-A
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've felt worse.

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1651

Image
Image
Image
This game really does have a sense of humor.
Image
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: The Final Fantasy franchiseTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9870

sumguy28 wrote:
Image


Lucky bastard... :sadshoe:

C-A
Page 5 of 18 [ 700 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Non Phoenix Wright » Police Station

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO