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Re: Dangan-RonpaTopic%20Title
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TheDoctor wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Danganronpa is dark? Yeah it's filled with murder, but it's quirkier than AA and the apocalypse stuff never comes up until the end of the games...

I'd personally probably put it in the Stupidity-Induced Audience Apathy page

Right up until the Danganronpa 3 anime, after which point, both tropes apply.


Its plot is revolving around kids killing each other - which, in general, is a pretty dark concept. The fact that it keeps happening and can't be stopped is another dark thing. And I personally found all the characters so bland that the Free Time was a waste, because I knew they were likely gonna die anyway, so what do I care? I don't.

I mean, having a bad plot is not good. But if you can counter that with something else important - gameplay/battle system; characters; visuals - it is just something bad in general. (Though in something like an RPG or story-heavy-and-driven-genre, it is pretty bad) Similarly, if you have horrible characters, but a good plot to counter that... it's just evening things out.

DR, for me, had neither. Horrible, dumb plot that never made sense to me much.
Terribly bland, boring characters who are exaggerated stereotypes. I wouldn't even mockingly make such types.
And I don't care that they die, because of the previous point.
The villain sucks. The outside world is boring.
And stupid plot twist towards the end.

C-A
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It's fine that you don't like the series, but I have to disagree about all the characters being bland. DR isn't a successful franchise without a reason, and one of those reasons is how they play out with the portrayal of these characters.

Spoiler: DR2 Characters
For example, Gundham is a parody on the typical edgy anime villain archetype. But rather than just making him a walking joke, he has depth that made him more human than meets the eye like his backstory about him being an antisocial due to his exaggerated health status and coping for his social school life by being a teacher's pet, which IMO is really funny but also relatable in it's own way.

Kazuichi is probably the most realistic character personality-wise, being that he behaves exactly the way anyone would in a supposed killing game. People thinks he's just a dumb comic relief but if that's the case, he'd be doing and saying the same thing every chapter. But instead, he balances every scene of him being a punching bag by actually helping everyone by building a quarantine radio and repairing the fun house elevator. Not to mention he takes a situation seriously when he has to, but doesn't linger on it and actually offers different things to say every time. He can be annoying, yes, but so does anyone in real life, anyone is annoying to somebody.


And that's just to name a couple.

The main story still sucks, I won't deny, since it's really just focused on trying to be as shocking as possible, but I personally much prefer to enjoy the series for the characters and I know for a fact that at least a good number of them will make it worthwhile.
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Some of the characters are entertaining, but that doesn't make them particularly deep or compelling. The deepest character in the franchise is probably Chihiro, and that's because he has all of two personality traits. The fact that a character does things also doesn't make them a good character.

FTEs can be fun, but they don't add anything to the characters to me since they don't affect anything. It's just exposition; nothing more. Maybe if the social links changed the main story (by changing a couple of dialogue lines here and there; I'm not asking for major branching paths) it'd feel like it had impact, but for me as it stands the FTEs are mostly "Hey here some crazy backstory for our crazy one-note character."

(Ftr Gundam is one of my favorite SDR2 characters, and one of two characters I did any FTEs with in SDR2, and I still think he's nothing more than a walking edgelord parody.)
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You are kind of right, rarely does the characters' depth play a part in the core story. But like I said, who cares about DRs mess of a plot? As long as there are interesting scenarios to see the characters go through, then that's enough for me.

DR's experience is sort of a self-construct one, hence FTE, so you can pick which characters you want to experience and care about throughout the story. It may still be exposition, but it's can still be a good one (for most of the time anyway).
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I like some of the DR characters but there's a difference between liking a character and thinking they're a good one. I think it says something that a lot of people pretty much have decided their favorite V3 characters before the game is even out, and they'll probably be right with one or two surprises

And the FTEs never do anything for me. Give me the general personality and talent of any character and it's not hard to draft a paint-by-numbers backstory, which'll probably closely align with whatever's in the game
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I agree with the first one. I love Gundham, but I will admit he's not the most impressionable character, though I do think Kazuichi is a legit great character. At the same time not all characters have to be deep and complex for them to be a good character, and sometimes there are good characters I don't even like. Juzo for example.
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Quote:
The deepest character in the franchise is probably Chihiro, and that's because he has all of two personality traits.


Two? Um... transvestite and intelligent? Or meek? And I don't care what tumblr or any other idiot says, Chihiro is NOT a transsexual, nor does he want to be. Just cause you wear the opposite sex's clothes doesn't mean you actually want to change your gender. It's like the whole "Kanji is gay" debate all over again, along with "Naoto is a wannabe transsexual". It's like these idiots don't even read what the text on the screen says.

Quote:
"Hey here some crazy backstory for our crazy one-note character."


The only character remotely relateable, in my opinion, was... see, I already forgot her name again. Genocider Shou - the other one. Fukawa. And that's cause she was the target of mockery. Also, the fact that Genocider went after the guy that humiliated her was pretty cool. In terms of funny background event. But even then, it comes across as her background is nothing but the sad, sad, humiliated outcast - too much drama in her background to make her relateable for long.

Though I admit the main reason why I like Togami is cause he's a jerk.

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As long as there are interesting scenarios to see the characters go through


Ah, yes. Killing games over and over, minor change in location. Riveting.

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so you can pick which characters you want to experience and care about throughout the story


Problem is, even after going through the FTEs, I still don't care about the characters.
It's like Aerith in FF VII for me - I like her, but I honestly don't care about her in VII. (In Crisis Core, yes)

C-A
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Danganronpa Kirigiri 5 will be released in March! Yay! It's been over a year since Kitayama last published a volume in this spin-off series, but I guess he was also busy supervising the mystery plots of New Danganronpa V3... The Kirigiri novels are pretty cool, as Kitayama is well known and respected as a writer who specializes in impossible crimes and locked room mysteries (and he shows it in these novels too) and references to the main series are actually fairly light, so you could easily read them just as standalone mystery novels. Apparently it's the last volume in the current story arc (The Twelve Locked Room Temples), which is a relief, and I suspect it's also the last volume in this spin-off series.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Dynakirby63 wrote:
I agree with the first one. I love Gundham, but I will admit he's not the most impressionable character, though I do think Kazuichi is a legit great character. At the same time not all characters have to be deep and complex for them to be a good character, and sometimes there are good characters I don't even like. Juzo for example.

Yeah Kazuichi is one of the few characters I like and Gundham is also on that list

I agree that a character doesn't have to be deep and complex to be a good one and it's probably a given that they'll be shallow since there are 16 in each game--my problem is moreso that a lot of DR fans overrate the depth of most of them and that a lot of characters are just kind of expys of each other so they're usually built around one personality trait
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Dynakirby63 wrote:
I agree with the first one. I love Gundham, but I will admit he's not the most impressionable character, though I do think Kazuichi is a legit great character. At the same time not all characters have to be deep and complex for them to be a good character, and sometimes there are good characters I don't even like. Juzo for example.

Yeah Kazuichi is one of the few characters I like and Gundham is also on that list

I agree that a character doesn't have to be deep and complex to be a good one and it's probably a given that they'll be shallow since there are 16 in each game--my problem is moreso that a lot of DR fans overrate the depth of most of them and that a lot of characters are just kind of expys of each other so they're usually built around one personality trait


Well, you're very much right. Though I personally like to keep an open mind for them and expect to see something that I can set them apart from their expy, like Akane and Aoi who have similar design features, but fairly distinct dynamics. I wouldn't say that DR always have good characters, but I usually try to judge them by the series' standards even if some of them do get formulaic. And if I like them, I mostly keep it as personal opinion rather than fact (save for a few).
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.Only halfway through ch2's trial, but I second Ash's notion that the mysteries in NDRv3 are really easy but the cluing/plotting is really good. Especially/mostly with how the killers act/speak; the small nuances in what they say really make sense in terms of what they're trying to do.

(Unlike, say, SDR2-3, where the killer just drops vital info for cornering them into your lap for no good reason.)
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Okay I might have to take back what I said, since the CGs in ch3 consistently screw up the most important detail in the case ~_~
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V3 now has Western release dates. September 26 for NA and September 29 for EU.

There's also a website if you're into that. http://danganronpa.us/v3/index.php
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Spoiler: Updated thoughts now that I've replayed both games
- Junko is by far my favourite character, for her jumping around with personalities. Though she wasn't as good in DR2. I don't think she should have been reused as a villain.
- Voice acting is great in the first game, but not as good in the second. There were more annoying characters in DR2. Junko's actress does great, and I can tell Gundham's is having fun drawing out his sentences.
- DR has a habit of bringing in new gameplay for the sake of it. I don't see what's different about the sword fighting versus the standard debate style. However, I liked how it was used against Sonia in CH5.
- Agreements are a good addition. In DR1, there was an awkward moment where you had to agree with Togami in CH5, but the game was always about shooting through contradictions.
- On free time, I agree that the extra character background adds nothing to the plot; it serves to make them more likeable. The only ones I can think of that could be valuable are Chihiro and Togami in DR2, because they foreshadow their deaths and identities, respectively. But you don't need to do that since they're incorporated into the plot. You just want the skills.

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Did you play sub or dub? I did dub for both and thought the dub in 2 was miles better
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I played in English. I was expecting the voice acting to be cringeworthy like in Ace Attorney but it was actually good, and in Junko and Gundham's cases, awesome.
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MBr wrote:
- DR has a habit of bringing in new gameplay for the sake of it. I don't see what's different about the sword fighting versus the standard debate style.

The difference is that in debates there are lots of possible statements you can object to and pink text to get in your way, while in sword fighting there are much fewer yellow statements, and it's more about actually getting to them.

I actually really liked SDR2's minigames. Sword-fighting is fast-paced and exciting, and is a fun feeling for a 1-on-1 argument. Logic Dive is what Thought Route should've been (it's a simple of interconnected questions to answer a larger problem, but with added gameplay tacked on to make it more interesting than just plain multiple choice questions). And the anagram games I think are a neat compromise between leaving a question open-ended (as opposed to picking from the list of evidence or multiple choices) while avoiding the problem of needing to parse any and all possible "correct" answers.

As for V3 games--Scrum Debate is cool, but really easy and underused, driving game is a mediocre version of logic dive, and the excavation game is just terrible and pointless.
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https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/0 ... confirmed/

V3 release for PC confirmed! September 26
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There will be a PS4 and PC release of Ultra Despair Girls on June 27.

Also, the Playstation VR experience Cyber Danganronpa: The Class Trial will be released for free for PS+ members on March 7 in NA and March 10 in EU. It's a ten minute tech demo originally released in October last year in Japan, but apparently it's good for what it is.
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Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
I love the Despair Arc. More Junko = more fun for me.
I thought the Future Arc was good until Kyoko was saved by a deus ex machina.

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MBr wrote:
Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
I love the Despair Arc. More Junko = more fun for me.
I thought the Future Arc was good until Kyoko was saved by a deus ex machina.

Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
Meh, Junko got so ridiculous in Despair arc that I can't take her seriously anymore.

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So has anyone finished V3? (Besides Ash)
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Dynakirby63 wrote:
MBr wrote:
Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
I love the Despair Arc. More Junko = more fun for me.
I thought the Future Arc was good until Kyoko was saved by a deus ex machina.

Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
Meh, Junko got so ridiculous in Despair arc that I can't take her seriously anymore.


You managed to take her seriously to begin with?

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CatMuto wrote:
Dynakirby63 wrote:
MBr wrote:
Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
I love the Despair Arc. More Junko = more fun for me.
I thought the Future Arc was good until Kyoko was saved by a deus ex machina.

Spoiler: Danganronpa 3
Meh, Junko got so ridiculous in Despair arc that I can't take her seriously anymore.


You managed to take her seriously to begin with?

C-A


Well, say what you will, I do find her bizarre nature to be at least a worthy point for the sheer abnormal atmosphere it brings. It doesn't last forever, but it's something.

I'm curious as to why you're still here considering you gave up on this franchise already.
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Dynakirby63 wrote:
I'm curious as to why you're still here considering you gave up on this franchise already.


Masochistic optimism keeps bringing me back.
Reality crushes the above.

C-A
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You know what else would be cool to have in this series? Aside from alternate routes where different characters die depending on what actions you take, it would be neat if there was a really hard to find path (possibly not even available until you've played through a few times) that would minimize the casualties. It'd be a way to motivate people to play through multiple times other than "I wonder which order I can get people to die in this time?"
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Spent the week playing through v3. Briefly googled around for opinions and… y'know what:

Spoiler: possible minor spoilers
v3's pretty controversial

Chapter 1: Same old Danganronpa… right? Haha, this one really got to me
Chapter 2: Same old Danganronpa. Executions notably more brutal
Chapter 3: Execute that psycho
Chapter 4: We've done this like 13 times already… different but not different enough
Chapter 5: Different enough. I can't wait to see how this ends
Chapter 6: …bad taste in my mouth

As per usual with Danganronpa, it starts out strong and slowly fizzles out. DR really can't do endings. Either way, I don't feel the need for a DR4. Enough is enough.
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Many of the Danganronpa development staff are currently working on a "survival RPG" named Zanki Zero. There's an article in Famitsu about it.

http://gematsu.com/2017/04/spike-chunso ... s4-ps-vita

The article above has a list of things about the game. Here are the details most interesting to me:
  • This game has existed in some form for many years, but it's been on the backburner for most of that time.
  • It's post-apocalyptic and follows eight protagonists in the same party (they swap out between chapters).
  • Seamless battles.
  • Something about the protagonists can either be young or old? Not sure what's up with that.
  • Currently 10% through development, which is extremely early for an announcement like this.

EDIT: there is now an official website. All it has is what's likely going to be the key image for some time, but the backs of the characters are shown. Definitely a more normal realistic anime style for this game. Also, there's two kids and one of the girls is missing a leg. http://www.spike-chunsoft.co.jp/zaz/
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DR1/2 are on sale on PS4 in the EU store right now. I'm pretty tempted actually, but I played early parts of the first one earlier and I'm still not sure if I'd be in it for the long haul.

Why are these games popular? Is it because there's some fun hook to the gameplay, is it the characters or are there plot twists?
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I think you listed three things that draw people to this series.

The gameplay is somewhat similar to Ace Attorney where murders occur, followed by evidence gathering and a trial. But with twists: the murderer is someone in the group and the trial is more of a debate amongst the group to determine who did it. They are forced in a situation where they're trapped and the way for one person to get out is to murder someone else and​ not get caught during the trial.

The characters tend to have very unique personalities, since the group are generally made of high school students with high talent in a specific field. Not to say they're all good or likeable though.

And yes, there are a number of twists, like what you should expect in any mystery game.
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Whether those twists are good though... That's up to the player, I guess.
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linkenski wrote:
Why are these games popular? Is it because there's some fun hook to the gameplay, is it the characters or are there plot twists?


As someone who is known for not liking the DR games, I can honestly say I don't see the appeal much. Not once did the game give me a twist (plot or mystery/murder wise) that really surprised me; heck, one of the 'big' revelations in regards to a character in Danganronpa I figured out as soon as they opened their mouth. If anything, I was surprised it was supposed to be a surprise!

As for the characters, eh, a lot of them are stereotypes... very exaggerated stereotypes. I dunno, that might be the appeal of them? Or they like the over-the-top designs? The gameplay has its ups and downs... maybe it's me, I felt like the beginning of DR 1 and 2 was a bit too long; I was actually getting annoyed and demanding there to be a dead body soon because I was getting bored. The minigames in it, which are also part of the trials, can be fun... others can be a bit tedious...

Though I think one part that annoys me about the DR games, in general, is that they are so freaking dark and debbie downer-y. Like, everything in that world sucks. Why should I get invested into anything in this world, since the people in it are either dead or gonna die?

C-A
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Quote:
Why should I get invested into anything in this world, since the people in it are either dead or gonna die?

Because their suffering is delicious.
...Usually that's the case, but DR's characters tend to be too eccentric for their suffering to feel genuine.
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linkenski wrote:
DR1/2 are on sale on PS4 in the EU store right now. I'm pretty tempted actually, but I played early parts of the first one earlier and I'm still not sure if I'd be in it for the long haul.

Why are these games popular? Is it because there's some fun hook to the gameplay, is it the characters or are there plot twists?


If you played through the first case and don't like it, you probably won't the game as a whole. It does get pretty samey after a while, with a few twists and turns. As others said, the characters are eccentric and not all of them are likeable (sometimes on purpose, othertimes not). In the end, don't force yourself to like it.
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sumguy28 wrote:
Quote:
Why should I get invested into anything in this world, since the people in it are either dead or gonna die?

Because their suffering is delicious.
...Usually that's the case, but DR's characters tend to be too eccentric for their suffering to feel genuine.


Eh, I have to be invested in the characters to begin with to enjoy their suffering.

I disagree with lonechallenger, though. Give something a chance past the 1st case, which is generally tutorial-based, so it's obviously treating you like an idiot and holding your hand.

C-A
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Especially in the first game where the clue to the killer's identity is so ridiculously obvious that Sebastian Debeste could figure it out.
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To be fair, part of that was something less obvious in the Japanese version...although even without that the case is still ridiculously easy.
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I mean, you could say the same thing about the first case of most Ace Attorney games where they straight up show you the killer. I guess in this case it's a bit annoying since the immediately obvious clue isn't immediately obvious to anybody participating in the debate. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth complaining about since it is the first case.
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I wasn't complaining, I was just saying the first case isn't usually indicative of a series' difficulty, generally due to ridiculously obvious clues or the case outright showing you who the killer is.

4-1 is one of the few cases that actually managed to be a challenging case in its own right as far as tutorials go.
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Ah, oops, I lost track of the conversation. My bad.
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