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Re: Persona 3Topic%20Title
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I know I'm playing slow, but I just beat the Fortune and Strength shadows during the October full moon quest in Persona 3. Pretty creative boss, it was a nice change of pace.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Agreed. I really wish they did more bosses like Fortune. Rather then having all the bosses be over powered minor enemies.
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Wooster wrote:
Agreed. I really wish they did more bosses like Fortune. Rather then having all the bosses be over powered minor enemies.


Remind my memory been a while since I played the Journey, what was unique about Fortune?
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Re: Persona 3Topic%20Title
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Fortune had a roulette minigame as its main form of attack. Effectively you got to decide what kind of damage was done and to what side.

The only other bosses with some sort of Gimick were Fuuka's introduction and Nyx. Even then, I didn't find them near as unique an experience as fortune.
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The only other boss that comes to mind that had a really unique battle that I enjoyed would probably be the fourth dungeon boss in Persona 4. With the remake too adding this song to the boss battle, I think it'll make me like it even more.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: Persona 3Topic%20Title
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dullahan1 wrote:
The only other boss that comes to mind that had a really unique battle that I enjoyed would probably be the fourth dungeon boss in Persona 4. With the remake too adding this song to the boss battle, I think it'll make me like it even more.


Nice, if a vita ever becomes worth buying I'll definitely pick up that game.
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Beat Kanji's Shadow. It was rather difficult since when I did his dungeon, I was running extremely out of health and items and SP, and since I didn't have a teleport gem, I charged through the dungeon skipping as many enemies as they'd let me. So I was a bit under leveled when I reached the top. No problem. End Exploring for the day and come back tomorrow.

So I did just that, and kinda-extreemly-forgot to restock on items. So I battle Kanji. Yosuke wastes his time countering Nice Guy's buffs, Protag is either healing or debuffing Nice Guy, Chie is Buffing, and what's-her-face focuses on hitting hard on Nice Guy.

Then Nice Guy dies and my team is running very short on SP, after having STARTED the battle at max. But no problem, I can keep this up. Then at 50% HP Shadow Kanji hits with status effects, which wastes my party's turns. But some how I'm surviving.

THEN he attacks with an Electric attack! Yosuke and Protag are weak to it, then with the extra turn S-K does does it again and Yosuke dies and Protag is dizzy And I have no revival items! Red Girl stops attacking to help heal. Chie's HP is too low to use special physical attacks, and her SP is too low to waste on Ice Spells when buffing attack is more effective. So she's useless.

Then the protag gets up, and starts healing, but now he's out of SP. So now Red, my formerly best attacker has to do healing, while Protag and Chie do scratch damage. It doesn't go well. Red can't heal as fast as S-K and Tough Guy are hitting. But her SP runs out they last a turn and then everyone is wiped out.

I won't lie… that honestly was kinda fun, struggling against the odds. But I had to grind because turns out I didn't have money to buy the items on top of being under leveled. Oh do I LOATH grinding.


Anyways, Social Link time. None are particularly interesting yet, aside from the Basket Ball link. Nothing says "I support my Friend" better then "Blackmail"!
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It's good you went with the Basketball Social Link, from what I've seen, it plays out a bit better than the soccer one and I liked Kou a bit more. Besides, he's all about polishing balls.

As for Shadow Kanji, all I remember doing was constantly having my protagonist using Rakunda (or whatever the move is that lowers defense) on Shadow Kanji, using Yosuke and Chie to deal damage, and Yukiko to heal, with my protagonist doing any extra healing as needed and Yukiko doing any extra damage when she could. Granted, I'd have to re-establish lowering Kanji's defense each turn, but it always ate up one of his supporter's turns because they'd always waste a turn to buff his defense back up while the other guy would deal minimal physical damage. It really made that boss fight so much easier for me and exploiting the AI script by accident felt pretty cool.

Also, letting you know too Woost, if you go back into the dungeons you already beat, you can go fight optional bosses and once you win, check the room where you beat the boss and you'll get a pretty good weapon. For example, the liquor store where you fought shadow Yosuke (though there isn't a boss there since it's no dungeon proper) you'll get a good weapon for Yosuke, Yukiko's castle, you get a good weapon for her, Kanji's sauna, same thing, and so forth, so it's worth it. Beating them also raises your courage a little if that really matters.

Also, for those interested, here's a clip of the Persona 4 anime dub that I guess is coming out soon. There's more clips on this guy's channel too if you're interested. I gotta say, I honestly admit that I miss Chie's old voice actor, but the new one is growing on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkdeFG7QVQY
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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dullahan1 wrote:
It's good you went with the Basketball Social Link, from what I've seen, it plays out a bit better than the soccer one and I liked Kou a bit more. Besides, he's all about polishing balls.

As for Shadow Kanji, all I remember doing was constantly having my protagonist using Rakunda (or whatever the move is that lowers defense) on Shadow Kanji, using Yosuke and Chie to deal damage, and Yukiko to heal, with my protagonist doing any extra healing as needed and Yukiko doing any extra damage when she could. Granted, I'd have to re-establish lowering Kanji's defense each turn, but it always ate up one of his supporter's turns because they'd always waste a turn to buff his defense back up while the other guy would deal minimal physical damage. It really made that boss fight so much easier for me and exploiting the AI script by accident felt pretty cool.

Also, letting you know too Woost, if you go back into the dungeons you already beat, you can go fight optional bosses and once you win, check the room where you beat the boss and you'll get a pretty good weapon. For example, the liquor store where you fought shadow Yosuke (though there isn't a boss there since it's no dungeon proper) you'll get a good weapon for Yosuke, Yukiko's castle, you get a good weapon for her, Kanji's sauna, same thing, and so forth, so it's worth it. Beating them also raises your courage a little if that really matters.

Also, for those interested, here's a clip of the Persona 4 anime dub that I guess is coming out soon. There's more clips on this guy's channel too if you're interested. I gotta say, I honestly admit that I miss Chie's old voice actor, but the new one is growing on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkdeFG7QVQY


I wiped Kanji's partners first, however I didn't have Yukiko on offense mostly. She's a healer firstly and foremostly in my eyes especially compared to the rest of the party's abilities at that point so just relied on Protag for damage.

Though yeah you can get some really good items that way, don't think there's one for Chie but hey it's good. Also you might wanna drop Chie for Kanji when you get him lest you wanna GET BENT!


Though thanks for that clip dullahan, didn't realise it was getting an English dub, or that it would do so well to get as many original actors as possible.
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Re: PersonaTopic%20Title
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As far as I know, the only VAs they didn't get back are Chie and Teddie, but I'm pretty sure from what I understand, everyone who is voicing in the remake is also voicing in the anime.

I personally stuck with Chie. I tried Kanji, but I found myself liking Chie more since she has a bit more SP and she can pretty much deal about the same physical damage as Kanji can end game. I just couldn't get into playing as Kanji, though I know he can be good, which was a shame for me as he was probably my favorite character. Though, since Chie is my favorite female character, I suppose the point is mute.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: PersonaTopic%20Title
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dullahan1 wrote:
As far as I know, the only VAs they didn't get back are Chie and Teddie, but I'm pretty sure from what I understand, everyone who is voicing in the remake is also voicing in the anime.

I personally stuck with Chie. I tried Kanji, but I found myself liking Chie more since she has a bit more SP and she can pretty much deal about the same physical damage as Kanji can end game. I just couldn't get into playing as Kanji, though I know he can be good, which was a shame for me as he was probably my favorite character. Though, since Chie is my favorite female character, I suppose the point is mute.


Yeah my first Party was Yukiko Kanji and Yosuke. It's just in hindsight now I know what other characters are like it seems some fall off, Chie has a horrible mid-point where she can't really do any significant damage with magic or physical attacks before she learns things like Agenastra or God's Hand. In hindsight I wish I'd replaced Yosuke with Kanji.

Though yeah, my understanding is that's how it is in P4A as well *shrugs* it's a shame but not gonna bawl and moan about it.
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I happened to find an item that boosts fire damage and put it on Yukiko, which then made her the hardest hitter and the most obvious choice for attack boost spells. This is gonna make it a bit awkward for me to figure out who my main team is going to be here on out. Yosuke dies a lot, but he's funny. Yukiko as established is my best attacker, but she's got a very lame personality. Then there's the further complication that playing musical chairs with the party members isn't going to be as effective as in Persona 3, since shortcuts back home are only at the beginning and end of the dungeon. Talk about leaving the cast in the dust.
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Wooster wrote:
I happened to find an item that boosts fire damage and put it on Yukiko, which then made her the hardest hitter and the most obvious choice for attack boost spells. This is gonna make it a bit awkward for me to figure out who my main team is going to be here on out. Yosuke dies a lot, but he's funny. Yukiko as established is my best attacker, but she's got a very lame personality. Then there's the further complication that playing musical chairs with the party members isn't going to be as effective as in Persona 3, since shortcuts back home are only at the beginning and end of the dungeon. Talk about leaving the cast in the dust.


Yeah it does get to a case where you have to leave some party members behind, maybe end game you could train them all if you like but here's a rundown of what you've still to get.

A better ice caster with a focus on healing more than Chie but not as Physical as Chie

A high-end caster with expensive Almighty spells and Light/Dark spells with a couple physical moves.

And Kanji.

So you can decide now what you want, Yosuke more or less...balances out, like I recall late game his stats are very all rounder. I'd replace him above all, I found Yosuke more annoying than funny at times anyway.
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Yukiko is a fantastic healer, but I did honestly use her the same way Woost pretty much did during my playthrough. Fire boosting and magic boosting equipment makes her do some high end damage when combined with her innate high magic stat. Out of every party member in the game, I always feel that Yukiko is a definite mainstay. Yeah, her personality is like mud, but I think she's a great asset in battle.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Okay I've progreased as far as Rise being kidnapped.

Which means I've gone camping with the crew. The girl's cooking was hilarious. Kinda wish I had enough courage to get the protagonist to eat it at the prompt. Oh well.

Now, Youske and Kanji. I can see how this would polarize people. You can take the giant rock under their tent as two way:

First: who in their right mind sets their tent up there?!
Second: Regarding the rock and Yosuke's suggestion, you can read it as either the writers throwing an anvil at them regarding Yosuke wanting personal space at any costs. Or you can read it as Yosuke being a jerk.

As rude as Yosuke was, I comprehend where he was coming from. I don't excuse how he handled it. But I understand. There's a reason why the guys and girls are separated. However, the guys and girls being separated doesn't deal with Kanji's demons. This is very tricky to word, so bear with me. It is indeed very rude to single Kanji out like that. But, what if say, Kenji decided to sleep out in the girl's tents? Some one is in for a rude surprise. And yes I mean the creep from P3. The tents are separated to prevent surprises of a sexual nature. Guys tenting with guys and Girls with girls will negate that, with some exceptions. Kanji being one of those potential exceptions. Yosuke is afraid of rape. Put a girl in Yosuke's position, replay the scenerio, and I don't think people would be as hard on him for that issue.

You can cry foul because Kanji is a big ol softy on the inside. And you'd be right. But don't forget about Dark Kanji from the TV. Yosuke saw the worst side of him too. His fears aren't exactly unfounded, even if his dealing with it was totally off.

That said. What happened to all the Guy who got stuck in trash cans and rode a junk bike to school? Yosuke's really missing on the slapstick.
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As much as I can remember about Yosuke, I think pretty much the rest of his humor is going to derive from his interactions with others, particularly with Kanji, Teddie, and Chie. Not so much slapstick on his end as there was, but if I remember correctly, there will be more slapstick scenarios later on involving the other characters alongside Yosuke. However, if you reeeeeeally want to see Yosuke with a garbage can, guess it can't hurt to link you to this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPAyiNrnFAM

Yes, this is the official opening of the remake for the Vita, and yes, Yosuke's dance cracks me up every time I watch this.

EDIT: Forgot, the opening has slight spoilers because the game is probably assuming you've touched on the original before. Nothing story-wise, just party-member wise, so if you want to hold off until you get farther, that's fine.

I've found some people having problems with the remake's opening, but I'm fine with it being the remake. The original's opening is setting you up for that whole "play detective" plot. The remake is, more or less, acting like it's advertising more of the social linking side of the game seeing as most people who will play P4Golden already of the criminal(s), so I'm fine with it.

By the way, since this topic is pretty much covering more than just Persona 3 as of now, would it be too much to ask if the title of the topic could just be changed to like a generic Persona title or something as we're not only discussing the 3rd game?
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Quote:
As rude as Yosuke was, I comprehend where he was coming from. I don't excuse how he handled it. But I understand. There's a reason why the guys and girls are separated. However, the guys and girls being separated doesn't deal with Kanji's demons. This is very tricky to word, so bear with me. It is indeed very rude to single Kanji out like that. But, what if say, Kenji decided to sleep out in the girl's tents? Some one is in for a rude surprise. And yes I mean the creep from P3. The tents are separated to prevent surprises of a sexual nature. Guys tenting with guys and Girls with girls will negate that, with some exceptions. Kanji being one of those potential exceptions. Yosuke is afraid of rape. Put a girl in Yosuke's position, replay the scenerio, and I don't think people would be as hard on him for that issue.


True Yosuke knows what Kanji's Shadow was like but he also knows his own. He knows that Shadows are amplified dark feelings we regress and don't consciously repress. It's also deeply personal stuff that I imagine the group would like kept apart and not brought up. Now I swear I hardly recall anyone else bringing up Shadow issues (outside of like dungeons) as a means of teasing/making people feel conscious about things. I still think it's awful of Yosuke to not trust Kanji especially after he owes him his life. Though by the way the Hiimdaisy scene depicting this moment is hilarious.

Though yes Yosuke still keeps teasing later on about Kanji's issues, especially after a Teddy revelation though one time Kanji has a wonderful comeback. In a way Kanji has unveiled his weakness and Yosuke rather insensitively exploits on that. It'd be like anytime anyone saw Yosuke board they jokingly laugh "What ya gonna kill me?" essentially

Quote:
I've found some people having problems with the remake's opening, but I'm fine with it being the remake. The original's opening is setting you up for that whole "play detective" plot. The remake is, more or less, acting like it's advertising more of the social linking side of the game seeing as most people who will play P4Golden already of the criminal(s), so I'm fine with it.


Yeah my friend didn't like it either. The top comment states how polarizing it can be "The happiest game in the world about murders" but hey I think the dance scenes are pretty hilarious but overall it does feel a bit too positive for the game even if it's all nice and I quite like the new song it's....unfitting.

Though yeah you might have a point about it just forgoing the mystery in favour of happy friend time.
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Re: PersonaTopic%20Title
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I didn't mind Yosuke too much in the game myself, however, thinking more about it, I did find one inconsistency with him that did kind of bug me a little bit.

Spoiler:
Okay, so if you work on Yosuke's social link and max it out, he talks about how he overcomes Saki's death and how he's moving on. How he became a stronger person, he got over his grief, his revenge aspect, and instead reflected on her death as a means to move on, to improve himself. I thought it was a great revelation. Then you get to the end of the game. Granted, social linking is a bit separate from the story, but it bothered me how near the end of the game in the hospital, Yosuke acts like he hasn't grown at all and he's all revenge driven to the extreme that he is wanting to kill the prime suspect behind the killings, no questions asked, just acting purely on instinct and anger. It just bothered me so much how you see how he changes in his social link, then he's back to square one in the story. At least it was a relief to tell him off so he'd cool his head.


Also Woost, you think the camping trip was fun, my favorite event in the game had to be the school trip. Yukiko probably has the best description about the whole plot of the game, it's also one of my favorite lines in the game. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts when you get to the King's Game.
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Just watched the video. I hereby decree that Russian Dancing with a trash can on your head is the greatest thing ever. And those that defy the edict can… uh… go watch the clip themselves.
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Hey Woost, may I ask how your progress is coming along?
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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Oh yeah! With all the GS5 and Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney news going on, I forgot about reporting on this topic… despite the fact that I've kept playing.

Okay so when I last left you guys, I had make Kanji a regular party member. Since then I've made it as far as the "Beauty Pageant".

Persona 4 may have a much better… world for lack of a better term. But TV Land really really sucks, especially compared to Tartarus. The map is simple and boring. You're actively discouraged to make trips into TV Land, so each 'event' becomes an endurance rush to the end of the dungeon, plus a recap trip to acquire the powerful weapon at the end of the LAST dungeon. TV Land, really is not fun. So much running through straight hallways and examining doors. I can appreciate them trying to do something different but… this really was not it.

Outside of the dungeons, I'm starting to cap out my social links… which likely means I'm near the end of the game. Kou's link was completed among the first. Very bittersweet, and I think you could write a book about his journey of self discovery, and learning what it means to be family and who your friends are. Really on par with some of the best social links from Persona 3. I think he'd make for a more interesting party member then Yosuke (whom I'm really disappointed with since he hasn't made me laugh since before Yukiko joined the party… which was my primary motivation for letting him stay in my party).

I've also completed Chie's, Yosuke's, and Kanji's social links. Chie's wasn't bad, and it was kinda animated. But I felt the writing wasn't quite there. But outside of the Social Links, Chie's quite cool. I love her temper and her counter-antagonistic relationship with Yosuke. She's even able to recruit the otherwise uninteresting Yukiko into her schemes and make her interesting by association.

Yosuke, he spent the whole time emoing over the lady we saw briefly in the beginning of the game. I think I could sympathize better if we got to know Yosuke's relationship with her beyond what was shoehorned in to make room for an extra murder. But since the love interest was a token character, Yosuke's loss likewise feels like a token subplot.

So Kanji wins by default. Which I'm kinda ashamed to say since his was honestly pretty good, just too bad about the competition. It's fascinating how Kanji can be a total softy and gruff-hardcore at the same time without feeling forced. (Re: Screaming at the little kid to find the stuffed animal lost in the river, and then going in after it). I think the writers had a lot of fun with Kanji.

I'm a bit over half way through with Rise's Social Link, just got the letter from her fan. I'll reserve judgement for now, but like Yosuke's… it really feels like filler so far.

I also completed Dojama's Social Link. Honestly, at times it became hard to tell the difference between his events, his appearing in Nanoko's social link, and actually in the game's plot. That's a good thing. It made his character not seem segregated from how you're playing the game. I feel a bit miffed that they touched upon his wife's murder in his social link, but never really pursued it. But… that's life. Sometimes, irregardless of effort, answers just don't come. I can accept that, but I wish that conclusion was the climax of the Dojama social link and not a conclusion I had to come to myself.

Fox Social Link… He wants a large fish, and then I can stop being robbed blind in TV Land. I don't mind all the quests. But games should become more, not less difficult the further you get into them. The Fox is one of the things I think was broken in this game. (Not to mention, the only time I've ever run into him in the dungeons was the first dungeon… WHEN YOU CAN'T AFFORD HIS SERVICES)

Part way through the Nurse's Social Link. This was a fun one. The first three levels were so spooky, not to mention the nurse herself seems the embodiment of one of the Seven Deadly Sins. I liked fighting off her advances, as it was one of the few times suspension of disbelief kicked in for me. (DUDE, THIS IS SO WRONG! I'LL GET FIRED! HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU STILL WORKING HERE?! IF SOMEONE WERE TO COME IN RIGHT NOW I'M SURE YOU'D BLAME IT ALL ON ME) Then by level 4 you start to see the human side of her. The haunted hospital angle more or less seems to die by then, but that's the point of growth of understanding.

I've started Ai's, Something's Brother's, Death's. Drama Lady's father just died. But it's so hard trying to jam in all the social links on the first (and likely last) play through.

Back to the plot… Um… lets see… I saved Rise.





That… that-

That was the most uncomfortable boss battle I have ever dealt with. And I seriously hope it keeps that title, forever. I understand fully why the game has an M rating.

And Teddy joined the party.

Teddy is a pervert. And a moron. I loath every moment he appears on screen and isn't reminiscing about his origins (Though unfortunately, reminiscing and being a pervert are not mutually exclusive with him). Ogling women isn't funny. It's lecherous. With Yosuke, at least the girls get their revenge on him when he oversteps (A la Mystery Food X) and even then he understands there are boundaries. He's got strange definitions of boundaries, but he knows they exist. I'd happily give Teddy to the murderer to throw into/trap in TV Land.

Oh well. Time to save Mr. I'm-clearly-not-a-Woman. I really really enjoyed her confrontation with her Mad-Scientist alter ego. Naoto held her ground, and calmly counterpointed her shadow's accusations. I was thinking "Wow. Am I really seeing this? This is cool! Does this mean we don't need a boss battle? Not that I'd mind a boss battle, but I'd totally forgo it for this battle of the wills I'm seein-… Oh. She blew it. *Sigh* Battle Stations everyone." Honestly, the boss battle felt tacked on after that amazing debate between the two. For the record, I don't blame her for loosing it. These battle of the wills are supposed to be between yourself and your darkest fears and insecurities. There's no dishonor in falling to your weaknesses like that. But it was… a bit… disappointing to see Naoto get so far and then to stumble like that at the end. Unlike all the previous victims, who all seemed to shout in express denial, Naoto seemed to just slip a bit. I think they could've written it a bit better, but I appreciate the change of pace, however short lived.
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Persona 4 may have a much better… world for lack of a better term. But TV Land really really sucks, especially compared to Tartarus. The map is simple and boring. You're actively discouraged to make trips into TV Land, so each 'event' becomes an endurance rush to the end of the dungeon, plus a recap trip to acquire the powerful weapon at the end of the LAST dungeon. TV Land, really is not fun. So much running through straight hallways and examining doors. I can appreciate them trying to do something different but… this really was not it.


Err what? Really? I felt TV land destroyed Tartarus, over 200 floors of samey identicalness with vague variations of the same tune throughout. Each dungeon in TV land has real character to it and more interesting dialogues than "Hey I sense a shadow a couple floors above you". Though how are you discouraged on making trips into the TV world?

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So Kanji wins by default. Which I'm kinda ashamed to say since his was honestly pretty good, just too bad about the competition. It's fascinating how Kanji can be a total softy and gruff-hardcore at the same time without feeling forced. (Re: Screaming at the little kid to find the stuffed animal lost in the river, and then going in after it). I think the writers had a lot of fun with Kanji.


Yep Kanji's is pretty good, also he's critically acclaimed for his issues pretty sure there's some award attached to his character. Best guy in it in my eyes, plus he dropkicks the protag out of the way to save his life.

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I also completed Dojama's Social Link. Honestly, at times it became hard to tell the difference between his events, his appearing in Nanoko's social link, and actually in the game's plot. That's a good thing. It made his character not seem segregated from how you're playing the game. I feel a bit miffed that they touched upon his wife's murder in his social link, but never really pursued it. But… that's life. Sometimes, irregardless of effort, answers just don't come. I can accept that, but I wish that conclusion was the climax of the Dojama social link and not a conclusion I had to come to myself.


*Dojima though yeah the whole family unit social links and the story itself are all excellent and heartwarming. The natural developments outside of social links are also all great you are in for some real treats.

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That was the most uncomfortable boss battle I have ever dealt with. And I seriously hope it keeps that title, forever. I understand fully why the game has an M rating.


The game has an M rating in America? News to me.
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Oh, I totally agree. Fukka needs to be put out of her misery. But, I actually enjoyed the Tartarus music a lot. (Particularly level 3's version) That's something I can't really say for Persona 4 at all. The music grates at my ears, all of it in Persona 4. Then in the Persona 4 dungeons, you're perpetually going straight through long corridors. And since they are corridors, you can't evade the enemies should you choose. Or at least, not nearly as nimbly. I will admit, however, that in TV Land's defense, it at least has a plot and all the dungeons have themes. But I consider that icing on the gameplay. And I consider the gameplay in TV Land to suck.

As for being discouraged from doing TV Land in anything other then a full rush. Consider that if you do TV Land in installments, it gets in the way of your social link time. Where as in Persona 3, it only had to compete with study time, and one social link.
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Oh, I totally agree. Fukka needs to be put out of her misery. But, I actually enjoyed the Tartarus music a lot. (Particularly level 3's version) That's something I can't really say for Persona 4 at all. The music grates at my ears, all of it in Persona 4. Then in the Persona 4 dungeons, you're perpetually going straight through long corridors. And since they are corridors, you can't evade the enemies should you choose. Or at least, not nearly as nimbly. I will admit, however, that in TV Land's defense, it at least has a plot and all the dungeons have themes. But I consider that icing on the gameplay. And I consider the gameplay in TV Land to suck.

As for being discouraged from doing TV Land in anything other then a full rush. Consider that if you do TV Land in installments, it gets in the way of your social link time. Where as in Persona 3, it only had to compete with study time, and one social link.


Y'see perhaps this is a perspective thing.

Personally I felt overpowered in Persona 3 going from 4. I can restore HP and SP anytime I want, and my nights are free to do whatever I want with. Before I needed a certain balance. In Persona 3 by about September/November I'd maxed out my social stats and nighttimes held little to no value for me cept to sleep early so I could be great and Vorpal blade the crap out of everything the next time I went in.

Though it's a shame you don't like the music so much, I prefer Persona 4's music to the dull drumbeats of 3 especially the Video Game dungeon, could listen to that funky tune all day. Though by late game on Persona 3 I wouldn't play it if I didn't have something else to listen to, like a podcast or something it just got too samey and falling asleep in a dungeon is a great way to welcome Death.
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I'm still playing through Persona 3 myself, but I thought there were two nighttime social links, no? Tanaka and the Monk?

Playing Persona 4 first, then going onto Persona 3, I'm kinda opposite of you Wooster to a point as far as dungeons go. I do feel Tartarus is a bit dragged out compared to the dungeons in Persona 4. I actually enjoyed the different themes, though by far my favorite was probably the video game dungeon. I'm curious to hear your opinion on that and the boss fight since you skimmed over that. Now, I do give Tartarus props as it isn't all narrow hallways, but one thing I really liked about the dungeons in Persona 4 compared to 3 is how much better it's integrated into the story. There's a reason why you're going through a bathhouse, a castle, etc. In 3, yeah, there's a reason for Tartarus, but one concern for me is the progression. Unlike Persona 4 where there's a reason to enter a new dungeon, I'm still not seeing the reason for entering Tartarus, unless it's explained in game. To me, it's all about fighting the shadows on the full moon, what's the point of going higher in Tartarus. And then there's the new floors. What's causing them to suddenly become accessible on a random day? There's no explanation, it's just all "hey, you can go here now, I don't know why, but you should check it out" kinda vibe.

As for the battle system from my POV, I feel I was spoiled by Persona 4's. Yeah, 3 has a huge head up on AI control, but with 4, the mechanics were changed, ever so slightly to make it better I feel. Defend is so much better than Wait for one. I actually like how I can get a second chance when using a crowd control spell instead of wasting all my SP on a one target spell on multiple enemies to knock them all down. I also liked the Dizzy status somewhat.

As for Social Linking, I do like the way Persona 3 handles it better because it doesn't really interfere with your dungeoneering. I highly recommend doing Ai's, she starts off really snooty, but I really liked where it went. I actually hear Saki Konishi's brother was a very, very good social link, but I never went for it myself as I hated Saki Konishi for the 2 minutes she was in the game. Still feel Yosuke was very stupid for liking an airheaded prick like her.

I'm pretty much guessing the main reason they put Fox in the game was since they took out the fatigue status and free HP/SP recovery when you return to the hub, they needed something in there so you couldn't just endlessly grind.
Now, I do like the way how they handle getting new equipment to an extent. Beat the enemies, grab their goodies, create materials. I wish there was some kind of guide in-game on how to get what, but the way the game plays, I do think they highly recommend you to hit the dungeons when it's raining. Social Links rarely come to play when it rains, and you meet rare enemies in the dungeons on rainy days that give you rare materials to make even better weapons.

I honestly enjoyed Teddie more towards the end of the game myself. He became a little bit more existential and it made him more tolerable to me. I still blame Yukiko for riling him up in the first place for wanting to "score with a stud".

As for music, I'm so glad Fuuka gives you options in the dungeons. I like Tartarus's theme, but it does get repetitive, at least for me after a while. While I can't say too much about 4's, I admittingly feel that Yukiko's, Mitsuo's, and some of the end game dungeons had some nice tunes. In fact, the dungeon music for the "true end" is probably my favorite dungeon song, if only that it fits the character that it's for so well.

So a couple of questions I'd like to ask too. What were your thoughts on the "8-bit" dungeon and the class trip with the whole Persona 3 cameo stuff?
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Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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I admit, the free healing was quite cheap in Persona 3. But I'd rather have that then be robbed by that fox. I mean seriously? You earn less money in the beginning. But in the begining he charges you the most in the game. What nonsence. It may have been broken in Persona 3, but at least it didn't discriminate the wrong way.

But yes, by late game there really wasn't enough to do at night. They really fixed that in Persona 4.

Oh god. The videogame dungeon. Artistically, that dungeon was my favorite, quite nostalgic. Music wise... It made my ears bleed. My least favorite among a ton of least favorite tracks.

Let's see... Synopsis on the videogame dungeon.

The dungeon itself was a nice throw back to Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Legend of Zelda. Little touches like the voxels reshaping the door when opening was really cute.

The boss battle, same as the dungeon, a nice shout out to games past. Took me a while to come up with a strategy to beat that boss however, since the protagonist was over worked as a buff, debuff, and healer. But I made it work with my healing impaired team.

Yes. I have absolutely no idea why defend wasn't in Persona 3. Never mind that you get to use defend strategically in 4.

Uh. Man. I hope I can do those two links. There's not much time left in the game I think where I'm at.

Let's see... Trip to Persona 3 land. Hmm... All I can say is: why did they bother? Nothing important happened there. And even as fan service it didn't do much since the cameos were from the most minor of minor characters. Nothing happened there. It didn't advance the plot, they just hung out at the bar and chatted. It didn't offend me, but it left me with the feeling of "why?".


One thing in particular i miss from Persona 3 was the fatigue system. Suddenly you have an excuse to use your entire party. Where as with 4, which doesn't have it, my characters are at level 60 or so, and Yukiko is at 20. She'll never be used again.
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Shame too because Yukiko really shines as a healer and magic attacker. She works really well in conjunction with Teddie, though Teddie is more versatile than Yukiko when it comes to what he can do, Yukiko does get the best healing spells in the game. I do agree with you though, I do kinda hate the way that handles. You pretty much find yourself making an A team and a B team. With dungeoning, I'd like to have my A team take on the first part, they get low on stuff, heal my main and grab my B team to try to get to the top. Sometimes I'd switch off, but yeah, you end up only maining certain characters at a point. I will say from my experience with Naoto, she's fantastic against random enemies, but she sucks against bosses. Just be prepared to spend an insane amount of SP to use her.

I was gonna say too, I really find it funny how you said everyone tends to shine more when they're around Chie. Funny thing I read about Chie when I was reading up on the development of Persona 4. Chie was the first character they created for the game, even before coming up with the game world or any of the plot. I had read that basically the world of Persona 4 was, for lack of better words, developed around Chie, which is why they tended to go with the more cheery kind of world and such as opposed to Persona 3, which was a bit more dark.

I had forgotten to bring this up on the battle system earlier, but one thing I did appreciate about it was how it was tied in with your party's social links. The higher of a link you had with them, the more they could do for you in battle. This, I also miss in Persona 3. I loved Galactic Punting Chie.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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I still think the party level problem could be solved if they did it like Super Mario RPG, let everyone gain EXP irregardless of if they're in the party or not. Being forced to abandon characters because you didn't take them into two consecutive dungeons is a major let down.

Hmm. I can buy that about Chie. She's not 'amazing', at least compared to Junpei, or particularly deep like Kou. But she does have the unique ability to make everyone around her less lame by association. [Well, except for Kanji. She doesn't seem to talk much with him at all. Or Teddy (Re: Pervert).]

And YES. Social Links for Party Members. I especially love that you give them abilities and upgrade their personas that way. Sometimes Persona upgrades via the story work really well. Junpei, Akihiki, and Ken come readily to mind. On the other hand, Fuuka's in particular sucked and felt shoed in. But ultimately it depends on the writing. But I've also got to give props to the writers for the social links for non-party members. Playing sports to upgrade your diligence, Acting to improve your expression, it's nice that, even though the benefits aren't near as good as upgrading active party members, there are other benefits to their social links.
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Just a bit of horn-tooting here, but after restarting the game four or five times over the years only to get chronically stuck at Shadow Kanji, I finally managed to not only beat him, but the optional Castle boss in one day. whoooooooop

Also for those who might be interested, the Persona 4 anime is currently showing on Anime Network On Demand.
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Congrats! Shadow Kanji gave me a very hard time when I battled him. Kinda feel miffed that I didn't have the SP endurance to kill Tough guy too, but what can you do?
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Quote:
I'm still playing through Persona 3 myself, but I thought there were two nighttime social links, no? Tanaka and the Monk?


Did both, Monk was bashed out way early, Tanaka I struggled to finish because I only found out about him late but got him done early. Still it got so bad at times there was nothing to do except punch bags down at the Arcade.

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Let's see... Trip to Persona 3 land. Hmm... All I can say is: why did they bother? Nothing important happened there. And even as fan service it didn't do much since the cameos were from the most minor of minor characters. Nothing happened there. It didn't advance the plot, they just hung out at the bar and chatted. It didn't offend me, but it left me with the feeling of "why?".


Hehe it was kinda important, the lecture on mythology is totally relevent. Though yeah like the camp trip it's more or less just a lighthearted event played for laughs.

Also the way Fox works makes sense for the very very definitely final dungeon. You can't leave it so having a fatigue system would be detrimental and you get so much money you can afford him at that point. Though yes it's disappointing you feel forced to neglect half the team. Though hey discount on them sweet leaves.

I recommend you check out this series of videos for a look at two men's experience and comedy with Persona 4
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I've been slowly going through their videos over the course of the past few months myself. Their videos are amazingly funny.
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Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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dullahan1 wrote:
I've been slowly going through their videos over the course of the past few months myself. Their videos are amazingly funny.


Quite an achievement to see em all, it took my summer and more.
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Okay, I'm on the tail of 'DA KILLER'. I've got to say, Naoto on the team really fixes the pace. Yosuke up until this point played leader/detective, but he's not really good at the later. However, Naoto's ability to assess a situation and deduce with precision is a very welcomed change of pace. (Plus the sequence with the kidnapping when she's running to ground zero in the rain on the phone… epic.) It was also a very nice touch when our rag tag bunch of wannabe investigators wanted to board the van, Adachi told them not to, because that would tamper with the crime scene. Naoto then offered her services to investigate immediate. It's little things like that that add some credibility to a character and situation.

If I could just max out my courage, and thus toggle Naoto's social link, I might consider replacing Yosuke with Naoto.

Though I kinda want to strangle the protagonist when he was being grilled down town. THERE'S A TV IN THE ROOM. So what your uncle isn't believing you. DO THE MAGIC TRICK WITH YOUR HAND IN THE SCREEN!

It felt kinda odd having Adachi present for the all hands meeting before the chase. The cast seemed a bit uncharacteristically 'who cares' with him present as they ramble on. Granted, it's Adachi, he's comic relief, so it likely won't mater much. But on the other hand, the Fool Social Link is at 9. Why wait this long to let the bumbling idiot in on what the party knows? Why not a segment where he tries to share that with the boss earlier in the game, but no one believes him. I give a free pass to the Uncle, since he adamantly doesn't believe, thus preserving the ignorance status quo. It's weird. But then again, they had Yosuke's social link be all about emoing over some girl who got barely any screen time, so I'm kinda fed up double guessing the writers methods.
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Wooster is in for a wonderful time now he's hit major plot parts.
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Well, whatever plot I'm about to hit, it ain't happening tonight. I went back into the base and tried to earn what I assume will be Naoto's weapon. The dungeon crawl was a lot easier since I got Rise's Treasure Radar skill. So to find the exits, all you gotta do is look for treasure… and then go in the exact opposite direction.

Tried the dungeon with Naoto replacing Yosuke. She did fine… kinda. But because she doesn't have a social link she died fairly frequently. She still joined 5 levels higher then my main party, so she's got some time.

Unfortunately, I couldn't take her with me against the boss in the base. Her dying was not conducive to beating the boss. So Yosuke comes out of storage… which I totally lucked out on since the boss is weak against wind… but immune to dizzy. (darn)

The tank seems to specialize in all the main elements, plus poison and physical attacks. Despite Yosuke, Chei, and Kanji all maxing their Social Links, and therefore have no elemental weaknesses, the boss can still one shot my party. This is particularly troublesome since the protagonist is the only one with weaknesses, but no one can save him in a group attack. Then there's the fact that he's the only one who can heal properly, and the only one with buff/debuffs. Except now he's triple overtaxed. He has to heal, and debuff the enemy's defense AND attack while buffing the party's defense and attack. He can't do all 5 of those things at once if they expire on the third turn PLUS healing.

Anyways… I come 'bear'ing another gift. It's a little late, considering it's about Persona 3, but it seriously contends Naoto Ace Detective for biggest laugh fest.

Spoilers for all Social Links and more
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OH GOD HAHAHAHA
Just fought the optional boss in Kanji's dungeon
Kanji knocked it down with Zionga second turn and Chie Galactic Punted it out of existance
Best boss fight ever
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Wooster wrote:
Well, whatever plot I'm about to hit, it ain't happening tonight. I went back into the base and tried to earn what I assume will be Naoto's weapon. The dungeon crawl was a lot easier since I got Rise's Treasure Radar skill. So to find the exits, all you gotta do is look for treasure… and then go in the exact opposite direction.

Tried the dungeon with Naoto replacing Yosuke. She did fine… kinda. But because she doesn't have a social link she died fairly frequently. She still joined 5 levels higher then my main party, so she's got some time.

Unfortunately, I couldn't take her with me against the boss in the base. Her dying was not conducive to beating the boss. So Yosuke comes out of storage… which I totally lucked out on since the boss is weak against wind… but immune to dizzy. (darn)

The tank seems to specialize in all the main elements, plus poison and physical attacks. Despite Yosuke, Chei, and Kanji all maxing their Social Links, and therefore have no elemental weaknesses, the boss can still one shot my party. This is particularly troublesome since the protagonist is the only one with weaknesses, but no one can save him in a group attack. Then there's the fact that he's the only one who can heal properly, and the only one with buff/debuffs. Except now he's triple overtaxed. He has to heal, and debuff the enemy's defense AND attack while buffing the party's defense and attack. He can't do all 5 of those things at once if they expire on the third turn PLUS healing.

Anyways… I come 'bear'ing another gift. It's a little late, considering it's about Persona 3, but it seriously contends Naoto Ace Detective for biggest laugh fest.

Spoilers for all Social Links and more



Hehe that was pretty amazing, I'd always wondered what would happen there if you utterly neglected the Social Links, that Minato just went ahead and broke them all.

Also Franzise that sounds like some high-level pro play XD
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
OH GOD HAHAHAHA
Just fought the optional boss in Kanji's dungeon
Kanji knocked it down with Zionga second turn and Chie Galactic Punted it out of existance
Best boss fight ever


Duuuuude! Teach me how to get the RNG goddess's blessings! That was EEEEPIC!

Okay, I tried Naoto for a bit. Left to her own devices she burns through her SP like gasoline and an open flame. She does above average damage, but as stated tends to wear out quickly. Her critical attack of shoot-shoot-KICK is quite humorous too. Unfortunately she lacks any elemental spells.

On the other end of the spectrum, Chei's highest Ice spell is mid level single target, and that's starting to feel a bit dated but her physical attacks and support moves are doing well. Then there's Yosuke who does nothing but spam Wind, and has a single mid level single target heal.

Then I've got Kanji who has a nice blend of Physical, Electric, and Support moves. He just lacks any healing moves.


I dunno. I'm strongly tempted to replace Yosuke with Naoto. The problem is, both of them don't really impress me much in combat. But Naoto is new and I'm a fan of her character. Perhaps not as much as comic relief Yosuke, but he's been MIA since the first dungeon way back when. On the other hand, Yosuke being present means I can take an element off the rock-paper-scissors game for the protagonist (Who's already overbooked with healing, fire, buff/debuff duty), not to mention a maxed social link means he aids in combat more then Naoto at present.

I really wish this was like Golden Sun: Dark Dawn or FFX where you could swap party members out mid battle.



So I decided to take a break and continue Persona 3: The Answer

Beat the second dungeon (With a boss fight that consisted of nothing more then over powered boogies) and was rewarded with… a flashback of Ken emoing, everyone being mad at Metis, and Metis being a jerk.



Well. There goes my motivation to keep trying The Answer for a while.
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Lol. I haven't even gotten to The Answer yet, and you're making it sound more and more like a chore the more I hear from you Woost. I'll probably still play it for completionist's sake, but from what I gather, it won't be that enjoyable, will it?
On April 3, 2016, Court Records Forums experienced a miracle upon that day.
CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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