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I've been seeing it go around a lot that SA2 is getting more negativity toward it, constantly declaring it as a bad/terrible game.
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Lhancat wrote:
I've been seeing it go around a lot that SA2 is getting more negativity toward it, constantly declaring it as a bad/terrible game.



Pftt of course people will say that as the "gold standard" of video games rises over the years. For it's time and especially for Sonic games it was pretty amazing.
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I liked Sonic Colors more than Generations.
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How about this one: I don't like Sonic.
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Thunder84 wrote:
How about this one: I don't like Sonic.


That's actually a popular opinion
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Thunder84 wrote:
How about this one: I don't like Sonic.

That's like saying you don't like Five Nights at Freddy's, it's a super popular opinion
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Thunder84 wrote:
How about this one: I don't like Sonic.


How about this one?


I like Sonic and Final Fantasy 7.
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Kessler wrote:
Thunder84 wrote:
How about this one: I don't like Sonic.

That's like saying you don't like Five Nights at Freddy's, it's a super popular opinion


I was more referring to the original games. Think the level design is garbage. If it matters, I'll change it though: I prefer Bubsy over Sonic
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Lhancat wrote:
I've been seeing it go around a lot that SA2 is getting more negativity toward it, constantly declaring it as a bad/terrible game.

People have become more vocal in their criticism of Sonic Adventure in recent years. It's like Ocarina of Time to Sonic, it received almost nothing but acclaim for a long time.
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I don't mind most forced stealth sections.
Because none of them will ever be as bad as the forced stealth section in Hotline Miami.
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Arrow keys>WASD
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Southern Corn wrote:
Arrow keys>WASD


I strongly agree I can't stand using the defualt WASD keys over the arrow keys it just doesn't feel right. I never understood why Computer Games don't just use the arrow keys because It makes way more sense.
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Southern Corn wrote:
Arrow keys>WASD


I don't care much. If movement is WASD, but main other parts (like selecting things) are via mouse, I find it okay.

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Left hand on WASD for motion/space for jump --- right hand for mouse (camera controls/weapon). Makes enough sense to me.

With the arrow keys, you need your right hand on the arrow keys, left hand on the spacebar/ctrl/shift for jumping and shooting, and a third hand for the camera controls. Yep, makes perfect sense.

Of course, this is unpopular video game opinions, so seeing these here makes perfect sense, actually.
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TheDoctor wrote:
Left hand on WASD for motion/space for jump --- right hand for mouse (camera controls/weapon). Makes enough sense to me.

With the arrow keys, you need your right hand on the arrow keys, left hand on the spacebar/ctrl/shift for jumping and shooting, and a third hand for the camera controls. Yep, makes perfect sense.

Of course, this is unpopular video game opinions, so seeing these here makes perfect sense, actually.


Yeah the only reason I don't like to use the WASD keys is mainly because I'm out of practice. Everytime I play a game my hands go straight for the arrow keys and not the WASD keys because I used the arrow keys a lot when I was little and I guess I kept remembering that instead of learning the WASD keys properly. That explains why I suck so hard at Minecraft Parkour.
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MBr wrote:
Lhancat wrote:
I've been seeing it go around a lot that SA2 is getting more negativity toward it, constantly declaring it as a bad/terrible game.

People have become more vocal in their criticism of Sonic Adventure in recent years. It's like Ocarina of Time to Sonic, it received almost nothing but acclaim for a long time.


I didn't get a chance to really play Sonic Adventure 2 until recently. I loved Sonic Adventure as a kid, and still do love it now, even playing the PC version. SA2, however, just has such trash level design. Nothing goes right. The game just doesn't flow like the first one does.
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I actually really like Midtown Madness 2 in terms of graphics over the original. It's very simplistic,which is great IMO.

Also,MM3 looks horrible to me. I cannot get invested in racing games with a story,especially if they're unneeded. Hell,the whole delivering pizzas thing is really boring and stupid! Also,the graphics are too good,IMO. Yeah,I know,it might be strange,but I don't like too good looking graphics very much,especially if the game sucks in comparison.
does anyone even know what midtown madness is...?
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I LIKED Justice for All.
Phoenix is always WRIGHT!
You could've seen that from MILES away.
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Reznov877 wrote:
I LIKED Justice for All.


I don't think JFA is really hated - I think it mostly stems from 2-3. A lot of people say 2-4 is one of the best cases... we all know I disagree, but still.

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I think I literally pissed someone off on CR's discord, just by saying I think JFA and AJ are the best games of the series, and explaining why I think T&T is bad. lol

I think 2-4 is the best case of the original trilogy. I wouldn't say JFA is hated, but kind of underrated.

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For me,its cases range from good with a few major flaws (2-1,2-3) to good with a few minor flaws (2-2) to damn near perfect (2-4).
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2-3 isn't good, but it is still acceptable filler to me. I can't believe the same people who can't tolerate 2-3, are the same people who are fine with 3-2. 3-2 and 1-5 are the only AA cases I refuse to replay, just cuz they are so boring.
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3-2 is a fun case,though a bit hard to understand,and 1-5 is in my top five
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My main problem with 1-5 is Gant, probably. Can't even remember him talking, his expressions, theme etc without sleeping right here, right now. This is how boring he is to me.
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I dunno,he still had his quirks while coming off as intimidating to me. :zap: especially
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1-5 is probably the most overrated case in the entire series

It's not BAD per se but it tried way too hard to be over-the-top epic and didn't try nearly hard enough to avoid MASSIVE, MASSIVE plotholes (Meekins' testimony, Lana's motivation for what she did, THE FUCKING JAR, etc.)

Plus it pretty much negated Edgeworth's off-screen character development between 1-4 and 2-4, and made Phoenix look like a huge, petty baby (wouldn't take any cases because he was sad about Maya going home, throwing a fit about Edgeworth disappearing in JfA after the shit Edgey went through in 1-5, and so on)

I will say I liked Gant and Jake though, and Angel is hot even if her character felt a little bland





After replaying JfA recently, I can say it's definitely not as bad as I remember it

2-1 is pretty dumb but Wellington was funny and a pleasure to take down
2-2 is really good even considering I knew what the twist would be the second I got the license photo
2-3 is...okay, it has some funny moments, I think the worst part for me by far is the obnoxious music you have to deal with for the whole investigation
2-4 is still one of the best cases in the series, although looking back I kind of wish they were a little more subtle with the whole
Spoiler:
Engarde is guilty thing, I didn't pick up on it right away the first time I played but I didn't have any real experience with these sorts of games at the time so I can see how the whole dramatic "Okay, let's ask Engarde directly and test him with the Magatama to make absolutely sure he isn't the killer" would tip off people who were a little more genre-savvy than dumb younger me was

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I can see your problems,but those don't really get in the way of my experience (they can be explained in several ways).

This is more of an AA thing than video games in general though
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
THE FUCKING JAR

Is this your problem with the jar?
Or is this your problem with the jar?
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Do you see the black one...or the white?

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My distaste for JFA can be summed up in one word: Franziska.
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Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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@Franzise I agree with most of what you said. I think Meekins is annoying as hell. I forgot to mention him. I still think Gant sucks. He is the kind of character that brings an immediate feeling of boredom to me. Can't even read his dialogues sometimes... cross-examining him was a pain. Hate that wannabe grandpa fake personality. Jake and Angel are okay. The end of the case is insanely repetitive. 2-4 is repetitive too, but you know, the case is very good and thrilling for the most part, especially from the beginning to the middle, so I can excuse its redundant parts.

2-1 is dumb, yup, but not any more dumb than 1-1 is IMO.

@dullahan1 She is one of the reasons I like it lol. Not my favorite character, but I like her a lot. That said, I admit I tend to like difficult/hardass characters :ka-whip:
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sumguy28 wrote:

The second one kinda but not exactly
Spoiler:
The biggest problem with the argument that Lana could make out "Ema" on the remaining jar shards is, uh, that if she put the pieces together like that, she would have KNOWN there was at least one missing piece. Lana said she was sure she collected all the pieces. And no, she wasn't lying about that, there's literally no reason for her to do that and she's genuinely surprised when she finds out Gant had the missing piece in his safe. On a related note, she didn't seem to be aware of the missing piece of Neil's vest, either (though you'd think the gaping hole in it would be a dead giveaway). So...if she didn't know Gant was hiding "evidence" about Ema's "crime", how exactly was he blackmailing her?

Back to the jar, the picture Ema drew was exactly what she saw at the moment the lighting flashed. Putting aside the likelihood that Neil hitting the mantle could knock the jar that far into the air, there's no possible way Ema could have seen the jar in the air then since Neil and Darke were still fighting at that time. And yes, it's all one scene, Ema testified that both halves of the paper were part of the same drawing.

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Why didn't Cat ever bring this up?
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
The biggest problem with the argument that Lana could make out "Ema" on the remaining jar shards is, uh, that if she put the pieces together like that, she would have KNOWN there was at least one missing piece. Lana said she was sure she collected all the pieces. And no, she wasn't lying about that, there's literally no reason for her to do that and she's genuinely surprised when she finds out Gant had the missing piece in his safe. On a related note, she didn't seem to be aware of the missing piece of Neil's vest, either (though you'd think the gaping hole in it would be a dead giveaway). So...if she didn't know Gant was hiding "evidence" about Ema's "crime", how exactly was he blackmailing her?

Even without the shards or the cloth, Gant could still bring up the initial autopsy report.
"But... in the initial autopsy report, a question was raised.
The blade of the knife was not a perfect match with the wound the victim sustained.
It means there is a good chance that knife was not the murder weapon.
However, in the report that was finally submitted, that possibility had been erased."
All he would need to do is order the case to be reopened, "deduce" the real murder weapon from the shape of the wound, use that as a basis to call Ema in for questioning, and have her "remember" the murder... kinda like what Phoenix does in-game.
Quote:
Back to the jar, the picture Ema drew was exactly what she saw at the moment the lighting flashed. Putting aside the likelihood that Neil hitting the mantle could knock the jar that far into the air, there's no possible way Ema could have seen the jar in the air then since Neil and Darke were still fighting at that time. And yes, it's all one scene, Ema testified that both halves of the paper were part of the same drawing

No, it wasn't all one scene.
"I think I... I knocked away the man with the knife.
Just then there was another flash of lightning, and that's when I saw... the Blue Badger!"
At the time she drew it, Ema wouldn't have had any idea what to make of a jester-shaped silhouette that showed up in lightning next to a murder scene. Drawing it where she did was probably just a shot in the dark.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
1-5 is probably the most overrated case in the entire series

It's not BAD per se but it tried way too hard to be over-the-top epic and didn't try nearly hard enough to avoid MASSIVE, MASSIVE plotholes (Meekins' testimony, Lana's motivation for what she did, THE FUCKING JAR, etc.)

Plus it pretty much negated Edgeworth's off-screen character development between 1-4 and 2-4, and made Phoenix look like a huge, petty baby (wouldn't take any cases because he was sad about Maya going home, throwing a fit about Edgeworth disappearing in JfA after the shit Edgey went through in 1-5, and so on)


I agree with most of your talk about 1-5. One reason I don't like playing it is because it feels way too long and drawn out. And I agree. THAT FUCKING JAR!!

Quote:
2-4 is still one of the best cases in the series, although looking back I kind of wish they were a little more subtle with the whole
Spoiler:
Engarde is guilty thing, I didn't pick up on it right away the first time I played but I didn't have any real experience with these sorts of games at the time so I can see how the whole dramatic "Okay, let's ask Engarde directly and test him with the Magatama to make absolutely sure he isn't the killer" would tip off people who were a little more genre-savvy than dumb younger me was


Can I just say that THE MAGATAMA IS NOT A FUCKING LIE DETECTOR! It never was, it never will be and anyone who actually thought that would work is a moron, frankly put. Pearl right off said it detects SECRETS in a person's heart; not lies. The reason for keeping a secret could be anything. Besides, Engarde considered himself innocent of murder, so - for him - he was not telling a lie; so even IF the Magatama was a lie detector, it would not have worked.

And nothing about that fucking Jar makes sense. Okay, so, let's just assume that it did fly into the air once and landed on the ground, without breaking. Okay... so, how did Ema's name get written there by the victim? He was skewered onto a lance from the statue. Clearly, he must have been alive for at least a minute, to write the name. But he was skewered and the Jar was on the floor. Are we honestly to assume that the victim got himself OFF the lance, on his own, picked the Jar up from the floor, wrote Ema on it, crashed it and then proceeded to put himself perfectly back onto the lance, before dying?

Of course we are, this is the game series where Karma's stupid idea of Edgey shooting with one hand, wiping the gun and proceeding to hold it in the other hand, to mess with the fingerprints, was actually considered a non-mentioned-how-fucking-stupid-are-you moment.

Also, Gant all but admitted to blackmailing Lana in court, in front of everyone, but it was ignored. (And yes, her actions make NO sense - if you don't want me to investigate the murder you are trying to hide, STOP giving me evidence!)

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She was trying to help you,but without alerting Gant in any way.

Also,the victim didn't write the dying message. It was Gant who did. You know,because HE pushed him into the armour?
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We know Gant wrote the "dying message," but the whole point of a dying message is that it's supposed to be possible for the victim to write it. If it's incredibly obvious that the victim couldn't have written the message, it makes the message's existence horribly suspicious.
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Exactly what TheDoctor said. It was so abundantly OBVIOUS that the victim had no possible way to actually write the name onto the jar. With Mia supposedly writing Maya on the receipt, that made sense, because the receipt was close to her corpse and in a way that she could have done it; as pointed out above, Neil was in a position where it would make no sense.

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Four months and twenty-one days. Not even close to last time.
Quote:
And nothing about that fucking Jar makes sense. Okay, so, let's just assume that it did fly into the air once and landed on the ground, without breaking. Okay... so, how did Ema's name get written there by the victim? He was skewered onto a lance from the statue. Clearly, he must have been alive for at least a minute, to write the name. But he was skewered and the Jar was on the floor. Are we honestly to assume that the victim got himself OFF the lance, on his own, picked the Jar up from the floor, wrote Ema on it, crashed it and then proceeded to put himself perfectly back onto the lance, before dying?

If you mean in-court, I'm not going to argue against that. They should have pointed it out much sooner than they did. But if you're assuming that Lana knew when the jar broke during the investigation, she didn't. As far as she could tell, the jar broke after Neil wrote the message.
Quote:
Also, Gant all but admitted to blackmailing Lana in court, in front of everyone, but it was ignored.

Two and a half years ago, I wrote:
All he did was say that agreeing to Wright's theory would mean that Ema would be found guilty. Which is exactly what Wright's theory says. Had he said any new information previously not known to the court, then his outburst would had to have been acknowledged.

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(And yes, her actions make NO sense - if you don't want me to investigate the murder you are trying to hide, STOP giving me evidence!)

Yes, God forbid someone be conflicted between revealing the truth and protecting her family.
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Quote:
If you mean in-court, I'm not going to argue against that. They should have pointed it out much sooner than they did. But if you're assuming that Lana knew when the jar broke during the investigation, she didn't. As far as she could tell, the jar broke after Neil wrote the message.


Which, again, makes no sense. The Jar was not within reach of the statue; Neil could still not have gotten to it to write in his own blood. And no victim that would write a dying message would want to destroy the object they write it on, making it potentially difficulty to notice the message.

Quote:
Yes, God forbid someone be conflicted between revealing the truth and protecting her family.


If she already felt like the truth meant Ema was not guilty, then WHY did she seem so convinced that Ema WAS guilty, when she first entered the scene? The only thing indicating Ema did anything was the stupid Jar, which was broken, so there's no clear way to immediately tell that it did say Ema on it. She said herself, it was dark when she entered. Also, the picture she took of Neil while hanging there: again, if she did honestly think Ema was guilty, why was she taking pictures of the crime that she thinks her sister committed?

It makes NO sense. It's a badly written case; worse than 2-3.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
The Jar was not within reach of the statue; Neil could still not have gotten to it to write in his own blood.

It's right next to the statue.
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And no victim that would write a dying message would want to destroy the object they write it on, making it potentially difficulty to notice the message.

That's assuming they wouldn't have accidentally let it fall at the very last breath.
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If she already felt like the truth meant Ema was not guilty

I was referring to the truth about the cover up, and everything she did over the past two years.
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she said herself, it was dark when she entered. Also, the picture she took of Neil while hanging there: again, if she did honestly think Ema was guilty, why was she taking pictures of the crime that she thinks her sister committed?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME WE'RE COVERING THAT POINT.
2.51 years ago, I wrote:
SHE HAS A FLASHLIGHT. SHE HAS A WORKING PAIR OF HANDS.

Not to mention she would have had less than five minutes to investigate before a certain trusted partner entered and "deduced" what happened.
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
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sumguy28 wrote:
Even without the shards or the cloth, Gant could still bring up the initial autopsy report.
"But... in the initial autopsy report, a question was raised.
The blade of the knife was not a perfect match with the wound the victim sustained.
It means there is a good chance that knife was not the murder weapon.
However, in the report that was finally submitted, that possibility had been erased."
All he would need to do is order the case to be reopened, "deduce" the real murder weapon from the shape of the wound, use that as a basis to call Ema in for questioning, and have her "remember" the murder... kinda like what Phoenix does in-game.

I'd think Gant would have a very hard time breaching that subject without implicating himself in the coverup, and it's still mainly his word against Lana's. It just feels like a weak reason to forge evidence for someone for two years and act as an accomplice to murder, especially since even a cursory examination of Neil's murder would show something was fishy (you could argue Lana was too out of sorts at the time to think logically, but she had two years to go over it in her head, and she was at least level-headed enough to take a photo of Neil's body and hide it.) I guess this is getting into more of a complaint about Lana at this point, but as someone who was specifically designed to be Mia's counterpart, Lana was pretty disappointingly stupid.

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Back to the jar, the picture Ema drew was exactly what she saw at the moment the lighting flashed. Putting aside the likelihood that Neil hitting the mantle could knock the jar that far into the air, there's no possible way Ema could have seen the jar in the air then since Neil and Darke were still fighting at that time. And yes, it's all one scene, Ema testified that both halves of the paper were part of the same drawing

No, it wasn't all one scene.
"I think I... I knocked away the man with the knife.
Just then there was another flash of lightning, and that's when I saw... the Blue Badger!"
At the time she drew it, Ema wouldn't have had any idea what to make of a jester-shaped silhouette that showed up in lightning next to a murder scene. Drawing it where she did was probably just a shot in the dark.

See, I'd be more willing to accept this if Ema herself made it very clear (and Phoenix himself confirmed it) that the picture she drew was exactly the scene she remembered. She said it was "burned into (her) memory" (which was critical for even proving the broken knife contradiction) and then said the evidence list wasn't originally separated when she drew the picture. On top of that, look at the picture itself:

Image

See those black parts on the right-hand section of the drawing? Ema sketched the outline of the window in the office.

If the fight and the jar Ema drew were meant to be from two separate events, the game did a piss-poor job of conveying that.



-edit- Something else I remembered: If the two parts of Ema's drawing were actually meant to be from two different times, why would she draw them like that? First there was the struggle between Neil and Darke, then there was the flying jar. Wouldn't she draw the fight at the top of the paper and the jar at the bottom in that case?
Image


Last edited by Franzise Deauxnim on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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