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CR Wants YOUR Opinion!Topic%20Title
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In Justice We Trust

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In the interest of efficiency (i. e. we’re sick of suggested policy changes just being sat on for several months until someone gets banned over it), the staff has (somewhat) recently decided to have Skype meetings twice a month to discuss proposed policy changes. The current system is that we meet every other Saturday at 12:00 PM Pacific Time. One of the decisions reached in the first meeting was that there be a thread in the Court Docket for users to post proposed changes to the forum's policy. While it is ultimately the staff that will be making the final decision, input from regular users is nevertheless valuable. Despite our efforts to keep an eye on the various goings-on in this forum, we are not omniscient. It’s entirely possible that a problem will go unnoticed if we are not alerted to it. That’s where you come in.

If you wish to propose something, you may either post your proposal in this thread or PM it to a staff member if you would rather remain anonymous, in which case the staff member will post the proposal in your stead. Once your proposal has been posted, it is probably going to be discussed by the staff even if you withdraw your support for it. You are free to discuss proposed changes in this thread, as your input may provide a perspective on the matter that the staff might otherwise fail to consider. That said, any policy discussion must be kept civil and respectful. We're creating this thread because we want your input, but we're keeping it open because we trust you not to get into fights over the rules. We will get rid of it if you give us sufficient reason to believe that that trust was misplaced.
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Ah, pretty neat a thread has opened up to involve C-R members regarding how to proceed with the forum. I'd like to give my 2 cents about 1 topic for your next mod meeting and give 1 suggestion for improving the forum itself.

1: my 2 cents about the random topic/conversation thread.
I won't deny that this thread has some problems. It contains debate about controversies, contains content that may upset some users and sometimes it's just plain bickering and snickering between users. But it would greatly sadden me if the mods decided to close this thread. The way I see it the random conversation thread is what a schoolyard is to a school: easily accessible, it connects threads together and it's a relative free place where the C-R users can casually talk to each other about anything. Anything means good as well bad, but that's how people are. The random conversation was the place where I truly got to know the other C-R users. Discussing politics with Pierre, arguments about final fantasy with Cat or the most simple things like if you drink coffee or not (geez there even was a guy claiming 'hot leaf juice' was the best).

Granted these are all topics which can be placed in their own thread. Or going back to the school analogy every subject has the appropriate areas and classroom. You go to school for education, you go to C-R for Ace Attorney related content. But recess was always something to look forward too when you were in school. You could do what you wanted to do and talk about anything to anyone, as long as you didn't break any rules given by the school. The random conversation is very similar to me. It's the place in this forum where you're relatively free, where you can really express yourself (for better or for worse) and to me it's contents make me want to return to the forum on a regular basis. C-R without the random conversation thread ... would feel a lot more empty to me. Like a school without a yard for everyone to get together when it's recess. I strongly advise against the lockdown or deletion of the thread.

That said, you have to obey the rules, either in school or on this forum. Rules to prevent spamming, rules to stop distribution of NSFW or TSF images and the such are welcome in my opinion. I just don't want to stop speaking my mind on this forum, which I now mainly do in the random conversation thread.

If something doesn't make sense or you want some extra clarification regarding this matter please tell me so. When talking about something serious like a change in policy there should be no room for doubt.


2: This is an additional option to the whole forum itself. What I would like to see is that I can 'mark' a certain thread and when a new post gets posted in it the thread goes to the top of a list of all your 'marked' topics. This is basically the same concept as the 'view your posts' option, but now you don't have to make a post in the thread.

This is useful for:
Let's say people don't want to add anything to this change of policy discussion, but they want to keep track of it out of interest or to know where things are heading policy wise. You want to know what's going on and quickly see the update, but you don't want to get involved. Another example:you want to follow a RP on this forum, but not intrude on the RP itself.

Thank you for the opportunity to give feedback. I hope it will be taken into consideration when the next meeting comes around.
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Sjibbey wrote:

2: This is an additional option to the whole forum itself. What I would like to see is that I can 'mark' a certain thread and when a new post gets posted in it the thread goes to the top of a list of all your 'marked' topics. This is basically the same concept as the 'view your posts' option, but now you don't have to make a post in the thread.

This is useful for:
Let's say people don't want to add anything to this change of policy discussion, but they want to keep track of it out of interest or to know where things are heading policy wise. You want to know what's going on and quickly see the update, but you don't want to get involved. Another example:you want to follow a RP on this forum, but not intrude on the RP itself.

Thank you for the opportunity to give feedback. I hope it will be taken into consideration when the next meeting comes around.


Subscribe topic/Bookmark topic, bottom of post.

This means going into your Control Panel to view your favorite topics.
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My opinion on this is, as previously stated on IRC, as follows.

A topicless topic is an oxymoron. It is hard to navigate in and a general mess. Separate topics allows much better navigation.

As for the use of it as a general hangout, I advocate IRC instead. A notable difference is that IRC is generally seen as transient, things aren't permanent. It is also realtime. No need to poll for updates, you get them sent to you the instant they happen.

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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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Fate Testarossa

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Proposal: Can we get a mark an individual sub forum as read button? I'm randomly stickler for having forums I care about as all marked read, and... Well, I can't see it being too difficult to implement on the coding end.
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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In Justice We Trust

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As Sierra pointed out, Sjibbey, we already have a function for that, so unless you're proposing a change to it, I don't see any reason to add your proposal to the list (though other staff members are free to edit my post and include the proposal if they disagree with me). And kwando, please excuse my Grammar Stalinism, but what do you mean by "[you're] randomly stickler?" I'd also appreciate more explanation of the existing functions, as I have never used anything resembling a "mark as read" button and thus don't even know where to find it.
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Whoops, must be auto-correct. I'm on my phone a bunch of the time, so... Silly typos like that slip through occasionally. xP

Right now, at the very top of the main index, there's a function called "mark forums read" which, well, marks all forums as read.

What I want is this functionality to be extended to all sub forums, so I can mark individual sub forums as read, as opposed to marking all subforums as read.
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One thing for sure, that will be in the new forum engine that I coded. Such fun in dealing with multiple levels of read markers!
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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Another forum I use has the function kwando is talking about. An equivalent would be clicking the attorney's badge on the defendant's lobby and marking everything in the defendant's lobby as read
Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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Quote:
Decide what to do about the "Random conversations/chatroom" thread. The author of this proposal had originally attributed its status as a spam repository to the actions of a small group of users, but the possibility of the thread itself being the problem has recently been brought up. Getting rid of it will almost inevitably irk a lot of regular users who had gotten used to the thread's existence, but he believes the option needs to be considered at this point. This matter also should be considered with other threads that have become overly spammy.


Well the thread was originally conceived because mods were getting irked at conversations running wild. Member 1 would mention how X was like Y in a relevant topic, then member 2 goes on to say "I LOVE Y!" then member 1 agrees and the conversation changes to be about "Y". It had a pretty sketchy start therefore about whether to allow it or not and this problem might just spring up elsewhere in other forums (which would result in the mods prompting people to remain on topic). Yes I think IRC might be a good substitute considering the 'chat' nature of the RC thread but it might not take to everyone nor work for everyone. There's no history on an IRC chatroom so if a particular topic is held only people in the right time zones would be able to participate. I say this because it's not uncommon for me to come home after work and catch up on the goings on in CR by reading prior posts in RC.

I'd suggest a revised RC with more structured rules to maybe prevent the most "Chatlike" of messages. Perhaps a rule along the lines of "Is what you are saying something for only one person or for everyone?" in order to encourage folks to use the PM system or a proper messaging client for that. Or a rule depending on the content of what you've put down, does it add anything to the conversation or are you just using it to update your status like some kinda facebook? Pretty sure we closed a "How are you feeling today?" thread because it was just spam like that.

I've seen a lot of nice conversations go down there and had good times there but I do think it needs trimmed and reworked in a way.

Quote:
Attempt to make the line between "NSFW/TSFW" and "acceptable" clearer. Though the staff has cracked down on inappropriate images, some users have still gotten in trouble. The author of this proposal doesn't expect anyone to ever come up with a truly complete list that addresses every possible grey area, but he feels actually naming some of the things that can get you banned will help give users a better sense of what is acceptable. While it's nice to talk about common sense, it's rarely as common as we are often tempted to think it is when it comes to "shades of grey" issues.


I think I remember either Bolt or BP stepping in and saying use a line of common sense. However I'd say rather than being a failure of the mods it's down to folks trying to see what they can get away with. The common sense rule does make sense to me after all, and a solid "If in any doubt, don't post it" should make sense. I think it comes down to people trying their luck. I think giving people a dedicated 18+ forum to talk about that stuff would be for the best and clearly marking it on the outset. It's no secret that it irks me everytime the RC devolves to talking about the biggest breasted anime girls :ron: Way I see it we ain't acting like the site is PG-13 (though the games now arguably have a Mature rating) so the rules should either enforce that or provide an outlet for stuff above PG-13.


As for new proposals:
I'd really like it if you updated the smilies to be reorganised based on category and spoiler-status as it was before. Made sorting through them much easier to use.
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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I'd like to bring up a completely different subject: signatures and avatars.

I personally hate animated stuff stealing my attention on forums. I don't really care for the filesize or cpu time to support them, that's trivial. The problem is the actual attention grabbing. I also add that it can look tacky.

I am not opposed to animation itself, just when it is attention grabbing. As such I propose a policy that allows animations as long as they aren't attention grabbing. Which is largely a contradiction since animation by its very nature is attention grabbing.
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Fate Testarossa

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Heavily disagree with that. Animated avatars and signatures are great /because/ they look nice.

Besides, you can't you just like block images on your end instead if you find it distracting?
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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How do you block images? I don't really have a problem with any of the animated avatars besides one that really grates me every time I see it
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In Justice We Trust

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I agree that some signatures and avatars have proven to be an unpleasant distraction for me. The proposal has been added, but finding a consistent method of rooting out such troublesome images will be necessary for such a policy to be enacted.
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Also how does one judge "Attention-grabbing" different things warrant different importance for different people. Before you even get to the conundrum of stopping attention grabbing animations where animations are meant to grab attention you can't siphon out what is "attention grabbing" and what isn't.

I don't especially think it holds any water, unless you want to enact some rules and regulations for acceptable avatars, or run every one by a mod for approval before it appears I don't think you can make it happen.
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As I pointed out, it is a contradiction. But I can state one criteria: animations must loop seamlessly, no popping. Strong flashing is another obvious no no. Strong conture changes is also problem. But I feel as if these are all sympthoms of a bigger problem. Words fail me here, I don't even know for sure what I am talking about myself.
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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Pierre wrote:
Also how does one judge "Attention-grabbing" different things warrant different importance for different people. Before you even get to the conundrum of stopping attention grabbing animations where animations are meant to grab attention you can't siphon out what is "attention grabbing" and what isn't.

I don't especially think it holds any water, unless you want to enact some rules and regulations for acceptable avatars, or run every one by a mod for approval before it appears I don't think you can make it happen.

I agree, which is why I think there should be a way for a user to block a specific user's avatar
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Also how does one judge "Attention-grabbing" different things warrant different importance for different people. Before you even get to the conundrum of stopping attention grabbing animations where animations are meant to grab attention you can't siphon out what is "attention grabbing" and what isn't.

I don't especially think it holds any water, unless you want to enact some rules and regulations for acceptable avatars, or run every one by a mod for approval before it appears I don't think you can make it happen.

I agree, which is why I think there should be a way for a user to block a specific user's avatar


I'm pretty sure I had a flash blocker or an image blocker once that allowed me to do that.
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General Luigi wrote:
[*]Discuss the state and future of Court Records. We can't pretend nothing is going on with CR activity, but we can decide how we'll face it. We either go the easy way ignore it and try to maintain what we have, or take the admittedly large risk of "revolutionizing" CR by giving it a fresher face, much friendlier to today's Internet. The author of this proposal has also suggested a statistics mod to further assess the degree of inactivity in CR. He doesn’t know if that mod's still available for download (doesn't seem to be working for me), but any other statistics mod may do the trick. The point is: the more we know about CR's actual, real situation, the better. We can't make any big decisions without proper information behind them.


My personal thought on this is that, since C-R's popularity is going to be directly connected to Ace Attorney's popularity, there's not really all that much you can do to attract new users. Sure, you can upgrade the site and make it prettier, but odds are that most of the people willing to spend time on a forum dedicated solely to a relatively obscure game about lawyers are already doing precisely that. If you do choose to change the layout, I would say wait until right before another game is released, because that way you have a better chance of sucking in the people who are new to the series. Doing it between games is just going to, as you said, risk losing some of the members we already have.

That being said, I'd be interested in seeing the stats for the actual activity. Be sure to post anything you come up with.
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Pierre wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Also how does one judge "Attention-grabbing" different things warrant different importance for different people. Before you even get to the conundrum of stopping attention grabbing animations where animations are meant to grab attention you can't siphon out what is "attention grabbing" and what isn't.

I don't especially think it holds any water, unless you want to enact some rules and regulations for acceptable avatars, or run every one by a mod for approval before it appears I don't think you can make it happen.

I agree, which is why I think there should be a way for a user to block a specific user's avatar


I'm pretty sure I had a flash blocker or an image blocker once that allowed me to do that.

You can do it with Adblock.
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Thank you all for your thoughts so far. A few points to respond to:

  • While I can try and add existing forum modifications to phpBB, with a switch to new forums in the (hopefully) not-so-distant future, I'm reluctant to try writing any from scratch.
  • Unfortunately, neither individual signature/avatar-disabling nor in-depth stats nor per-forum 'read' marker mods appear to exist for the version of phpBB we run on. If you know of a mod that can add this functionality, please let me know!
  • On the subject of objectionable signatures or avatars, feel free to PM a mod or report a user's post, and we'll consider it. If a user's sig is way over 200px due to height, you should also report that.
  • On the subject of the random chatroom thread - the point made of encouraging users to consider if they're having conversations others can take part in or just directly shooting back and forth with an individual member is a good one.
  • On the subject of smilies, phpBB luckily allows us to export our smilies "list" as a text file which can be rearranged and re-uploaded to adjust order, names, etc. (See this thread.) If someone would like to take the time to do that rearrangement, please get in touch with me.

Feedback on the topic of rearranging/combining subforums would also be appreciated!
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Well, the only reason I mention a per-forum mark as read function is because... Well, AAO has one, and both AAO and CR appear to be run on phpBB, so.... I thought that they would have the same functionality there. xP
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The forums "Defendant's Lobby" and "Prosecutor's Lobby" have a button to mark all topics in them as read, but other forums don't have it. It there a particular reason for this, and would it be really difficult to do the same thing with other forums? Is it because these two have sub-forums?
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Fate Testarossa

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Oh yeah. Another random thing. Is there a reason I'm not being emailed notifications that I have been PM'd? I liked that as a feature, but... I haven't been getting emails, nor can I find a place to toggle that option, if it is available...
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kwando1313 wrote:
Oh yeah. Another random thing. Is there a reason I'm not being emailed notifications that I have been PM'd? I liked that as a feature, but... I haven't been getting emails, nor can I find a place to toggle that option, if it is available...

I believe it's
> User Control Panel
> Board Preferences
> Edit global settings
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Sa-chan wrote:
kwando1313 wrote:
Oh yeah. Another random thing. Is there a reason I'm not being emailed notifications that I have been PM'd? I liked that as a feature, but... I haven't been getting emails, nor can I find a place to toggle that option, if it is available...

I believe it's
> User Control Panel
> Board Preferences
> Edit global settings

That's what I though it was, but... It's on, and I haven't gotten any emails for PMs... :/
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My settings look like this and I always get email notifications when I get a PM~
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Weird then. I haven't the slightest idea why I'm not getting emails, but... *shrugs*, CR's always been a little buggy for me anyways, sooooo....
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I have the same problem with the email notifications, even though my settings doesn't look any different to Dawn's ones. Guess, CR is buggy for me as well.
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As a notice, there will be an open staff meeting at 1 PM Pacific Time today (11/29) in the IRC chatroom, if anyone would like to stop by and provide additional suggestions/feedback. That's just about 12 hours from the time of this post.
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Some small updates: the smilies list has been organized thanks to Louise, and we are looking into the "mark subforum read" option - it appears to be a bug with the current forum skin.
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Our latest meeting has just ended and the latest policy changes have been mentioned in the first post. The next one is scheduled for 1:00 PM Pacific Standard Time on the Saturday after the next (December 13).
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Bolt Storm wrote:
Some small updates: the smilies list has been organized thanks to Louise, and we are looking into the "mark subforum read" option - it appears to be a bug with the current forum skin.

We can finally use the :shellydekiller: smilie! So beautiful :acro:
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Here is the exact list of meeting votes and their results.
  • Signature size restrictions will be enforced using CSS, content exceeding the allowed dimensions will be cropped. (6 aye, 0 abstain, 1 nay)
  • The new signature size restriction is 600 x 220 pixels.
    • 600 x 200? (2 aye, 2 abstain, 3 nay)
    • 660 width? (1 aye, 2 abstain, 3 nay)
    • Height 220? (6 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)
  • Forum restructuring
    • The Defendant Lobby subforums will be merged into the main forum ( 4 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)
    • The Gourdzilla's Lair will be merged into the Prosecutor's Lobby ( 6 aye, 0 abstain, 0 nay)
    • Merging the subforums of present evidence was tabled while waiting for comments. In other words, we want your comments on it! Right here in this topic.
    • Present evidence will be renamed to Fanworks ( 3 aye, 1 abstain, 2 nay)
    • The Police Station will not be made a subforum of Wright & Co. Law Offices (2 aye, 2 abstain, 3 nay)
    • Global Studios will be a subforum of Wright & Co. Law Offices ( 6 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)
    • The Borscht Bowl Club will be a subforum of Wright & Co. Law Offices (5 aye, 2 abstain, 0 nay)
    • The Eagle River and its contents will be deleted, after people have had a chance to salvage what they want (6 aye, 0 abstain, 0 nay)
    • The Berry Big Circus will reopen in some form (6 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)
    • Posts in the Berry Big Circus will not count in your postcount (6 aye, 0 abstain, 0 nay)
    • The Random Conversation thread will be moved to the new BBC (6 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)

Additionally, the one topic per artist rule was brought up.
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Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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Bolt Storm wrote:
Some small updates: the smilies list has been organized thanks to Louise


Glad the order was ok, I know you said you were busy but I was still thinking that you were holding off because I made it worse :hoboleft: will you be making a drop down list for them so you can search by game?

Bad Player wrote:
We can finally use the :shellydekiller: smilie! So beautiful :acro:


I'm just glad to be able to use :pearly: without it turning into :pearl-mia2:

henke37 wrote:
  • Merging the subforums of present evidence was tabled while waiting for comments. In other words, we want your comments on it! Right here in this topic.


Do you mean one forum for fanart/sprites/fics etc? It feels like that'd be irritating at first but if you did this and brought the one thread per artist rule in then it'd work out quite well.

henke37 wrote:
  • Present evidence will be renamed to Fanworks ( 3 aye, 1 abstain, 2 nay)


:sadshoe:


henke37 wrote:
  • The Berry Big Circus will reopen in some form (6 aye, 1 abstain, 0 nay)


  • How come this was closed in the first place and what's made you want to re-open it? The posts not counting is good though, I kind of wish that was the case for Wright and Co. Law Offices too.
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    Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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    Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

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    :acro: So happy smilies are being sorted. Thanks Louise!

    Now we just need that drop-down fixed.

    Though I question why Godots "Mildly Hurt" pose is way at the back with the spoiler and miscellaneous ones.
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    Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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    Programmer

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    About that, I want to abolish that one thread per artist rule. I want to have one thread per work instead. The new automated system will manage the threads and create them as needed (be it instantly on submission or at the first comment).
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    Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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    Fate Testarossa

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    One thread per work sounds like an awful idea with a vibrant arting community. Because... That would get an incredibly large number of theeads, no? And with that, it becomes really difficult to search, no? Unless I'm drastically misinterpreting what you're saying here... I don't like that idea.

    (Also, IIRC, BBC was closed because of bandwidth issues?)
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    Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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    kwando1313 wrote:
    (Also, IIRC, BBC was closed because of bandwidth issues?)

    I forget the exact issue, but BBC caused the entire forum to crash. For the better part of a year, IIRC.
    Re: Policy Discussion ThreadTopic%20Title
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    Pierre wrote:
    Though I question why Godots "Mildly Hurt" pose is way at the back with the spoiler and miscellaneous ones.


    ......

    ....

    Oops :toaster:

    Bad Player wrote:
    I forget the exact issue, but BBC caused the entire forum to crash. For the better part of a year, IIRC.


    Yikes, so how will you stop that happening again? Or are you counting on it not being as busy?
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