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Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Shoujo Manga are great to read. A female heroine who struggles, gets past one obstacle after another, to finally have that wonderful romantic story and get to a happy end with the guy she's wanted all this time. A story worth reading... for about the 500th time.

The formula for Shoujo manga seems to be restricted to things that have to happen and, lately, I noticed that they just seem to blend together into one mash of the same story idea, coupled with the same hinderances and they only differ in terms of appearance of the characters and names. And even then, some of the names or appearances overlap or look very similar to each other. What I've seen in Shoujo manga is that the characters are all practically the same stereotypes.

Heroine
Personality: Crybaby or Ice Queen or Tough Girl
Relationship Status: Never had a Boyfriend before, never been kissed
Notes: Generally a doormat because of all the crap she goes through to get the guy. Could be seen as shallow, depending on her reason for falling for Guy A to begin with. Does not have the guts to stand up for herself, unless she gets really angry.

Guy A
Personality: Jerk towards Heroine, but also Kind towards Heroine
Relationship Status: Rumors say he's had dozens of girlfriends (Fact: he is not a virgin!)
Notes: Despite being shown as a nice guy at times, he's still a jerk. Why would anyone want to date this guy? Guy A will be famous in school for something, be it good looks, grades, sports or everything put together. Obviously this guy will end up with the Heroine, no matter how much of a jerk he is.

Guy B
Personality: Opposite of Guy A - he's always Kind, Understanding and Thoughtful.
Relationship Status: Perhaps had a girlfriend before, we don't know
Notes: Introduced a few chapters into the story. Will be introduced either as A) Heroine's Childhood Friend, B) Heroine's Cousin, C) Heroine's Older/Younger Stepbrother, D) Guy A's Rival or E) Guy A's Younger/Older Brother. His appearance will be the opposite of Guy A - so if Guy A is dark haired, Guy B will be blond. Guy B must be the first guy to confess his love for Heroine.

And the story flow seems to be all the same...
Starts in school and Heroine sees Guy A and begins to have a crush on him. Other times, she studied to get to the same school as him, because she had a long standing crush on him. Guy A pays some attention to Heroine and results in stealing her First Kiss.
Because it's always the First Kiss.
After Heroine has angsted and raged a bit over Guy A stealing her First Kiss, probably even yelling at him in public for doing so and ending up getting bullied by his fangirls, she confesses her feelings to Guy A. Guy A rejects her with a face that obviously means "I like you, too, but I'm still gonna reject you for a dumb reason."
Enter Guy B.
Insert scenes of Guy B and Heroine together, showing that they have chemistry, share the same interests and would make a supportive and understanding couple. Eventually, Guy B will confess to Heroine - a kiss will be optional. Heroine remains confused over Guy B's confession and her remaining feelings for Guy A.
Heroine decides to reject Guy B because she "still loves Guy A after all".
Insert the following clichées.
A) Guy B will say he and Heroine are in a relationship, to make Guy A angry. Optionally included scene would be Guy B getting semi-intimate with the Heroine to "make things convincing" or because "they're a couple, it's normal to do these things".
B) Heroine bullied by Guy A's fangirls and Guy A repeatedly rescuing her. Guy B will rescue her a few times, too, but not as often as Guy A will to. And Guy A will insist that the rescuing means nothing special.
C) Various scenes of Guy A obviously having feelings for Heroine, but remaining a jerk towards her in public. Various scenes of Guy B being nice to Heroine, obviously being a better choice of a boyfriend.
D) Optional 'hindrance' is to insert Guy C, from Guy A or Guy B's past, who also falls for the heroine. Put in similar scenes as above for Heroine and Guy C, but prove repeatedly that Guy C is just trying to make Guy A/B angry because he was somehow wronged in the past.
E) Heroine mistakes friend/sister/cousin for Guy A or B's girlfriend. Have Heroine angst about this for quite some time. Heroine will never ask outright until it's obviously not a girlfriend and she embarrasses herself.

Definitely more clichées, but these are the ones I see a lot.
My question, the thing that always confuses me, is this... do people actually enjoy reading this? I read Shoujo manga years ago and I still do at times, if it gets away from this presented formula... but do people really like to read the same hindrances, the same stupid drama brought upon by lack of communication, the same dumb reactions and idiotic jumping to conclusions over and over again?

Don't people eventually get sick and tired of reading for the fifth time about the heroine angsting about her First Kiss being stolen and how she can never, ever marry because of that now? Or read again how Guy A is kissing the Heroine, but immediately says "This means nothing!" afterwards and leaves the Heroine in tears?

Note that I have taken out a lot of other clichées and things happening, I even abridged the personality or notes on the love triangle a lot. For example, I removed the ideas that Guy A and Heroine do get into a semi-relationship thing and have sex and we get the obligatory "OmG am I pregnant?" plot. Or the Rape Attempt that Guy A has to rescue the Heroine from. The bad thing is, that I can see within 5 chapters what all is going to happen in the manga. And I generally stop reading after six chapters, when it gets to the confession of Guy B because it's just so freaking obvious. Where's the fun in reading a manga of the Shoujo genre when you can predict everything from the start?

If you have any answers or ideas why every Shoujo manga seems to go along this route, please give me an answer. Or if you remember a cliché in a Shoujo manga that I have no written down or that has annoyed you so badly that you want to chuck the damn thing against a wall, mention it.

Why?
I want to create a Shoujo manga labelled Shoujo Deconstruct and I want to try to grab as many Shoujo clichées as I can and switch them around, destroy them or make fun of them, labelling them and pointing them out. Just creating a Shoujo manga that looks like it will play along the route of this formula and then, literally, deconstruct and destroy it. It will be like an anti-Shoujo manga.

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Do you see the black one...or the white?

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I could never get into Shoujo myself, it's all too samey. Then again, I'm a dude, so I understand how it probably really has no appeal to my demographic.

That said, funnily enough, the first manga I ever read that helped get me into manga was a shoujo manga. Kodomo no Omocha. I quite enjoyed it for a while for the first few volumes. It didn't follow such a strict shoujo formula at first and was quite entertaining and funny most of the time. Really, the last couple of volumes was where it got grating for me, but I was already invested enough in the characters and how fun that they could be that I read through it all. Ending was too sappy for my tastes, but I still like reading through the first few volumes every now and then for the humor before it gets too love and grief and jealously and all that nonsense.

As for shoujo in general too, it's really creepy how so many characters, by different illustrators no less, tend to have the same exact facial features used for both men and women. It's a huge turnoff for me wanting to read anything. It's like they all use the same base to create their characters. Heck, as samey as shounen can be at times, at least their characters are different enough between different illustrators.
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Hey, cliche's cliche for a reason. If people didn't fall for the same crap every time, no one would use it.

That being said, good luck with the Shoujo Deconstruct thing. I tried something like that a few years ago but got sick of all the shoujo and quit (that, and I can't draw shoujo for crap) xD
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Close enough...

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Possibly because I'm a dude and some part of me still associates anime/manga with cartoons/comics which then connects with childhood and all the "sissy girls" "They have cooties" and "YEAH SUPER SAIYAN!" formula of childlike thinking. So I just see the pretty flowery writing on the cover and roll my eyes over to the 'muscle-bound hero' section.
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title

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I don't know.

I'm aware of the usual shoujo cliches but sometimes I don't mind them...I can't really get into shounen.
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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But I like romance....
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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DoMaya wrote:
But I like romance....


Nothing against romance. Just that the way romance is portrayed in majority of the Shoujo manga is pretty stupid. Yeah, yeah Love makes you dumb, I know. But the girl is always portrayed as a doormat, the boy is a jerk and she still wants him? That isn't romance anymore, that is a stupid obsession or an intense desire for emotional abuse.

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title

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Why shojo is always about the same shit? The same reson can be applied to why movies are always the same, why books are always the same heck even why music is always the same. There are many reason.

1. Magic formula.

You see, people tend to use the same strategies to sell a product. Normally they will fly on a popularity of genre created by another product. example, notice that we heard more about vampire stories since the coming of twilight? Maybe not in your country be here yes. Even before that, how many Harry Potter like we had. I remember when I was in high school (my early years) books about fantasy was super popular. Last example, here we had a series named Journal d'Aurélie Laflamme. Summary, the journal of a "normal girl" stating her thoughts and "comic adventure" of her daily life. Now everything I see in library is shit like that.

Briefing: Manga is a product. A product that can sell a lot. People are expecting thing more than they want to be surprise. I remember time where I was scotched to my screen just waiting for THAT moment. From a marketing point of view it's a more safe approach to use a path that has already been proven.


2.Bovarism/ Identification to the main protagonist

One thing you learn in cinema is that some movies are sometime more popular because people tend to see themselves in the main character or someone close to her. In japan we know that the standard for girls are cute girls, submitted obviously, know perfectly how to take care of the house, virgin, inexperience, naive, innocent because it is considered cute and desirable in the asian culture. Of course not all girls are like that, That's why they make them look like different but in the end she's always like that. Let's note also that most of girls reading shojo share the same personality. The common stereotype make them shy a bit innocent, child at heart and more. Again let's find out why in the american teenage movie the main protagonist is always the new girl nice to people unable to make friend until the end where she suddenly become super popular? She represent the "everyday teenage american girl".

As for love make you stupid. Authors tend to play with the memories or fantasm of the reader. Remember the first time you fell in love. Didn't you look a bit stupid or did you take it the same way as today? You see playing of the nostalgia of first love for the experienced and dream/fantasm for the inexperienced. Okay I admit it, it's more towarded to the second group. Young girls like to dream about love in their teenage years (at least most of them) and shojo just fuel that dream as well as movies, books and musics.


3.Fantasm

I already stated the "japanese type of girl". So guess what this calm and ranged girl dream for a guy? That's right, the rebel type. The type of guy who seem to promise you a life full of adventure and not a boring. Why is she still attracted to her even if he's a real jerk? Because he's the embodiment of what she truly desire a rebeillion (see another teenage phase), a guy who isn't like everybody else, a guy full of freedom. She admire his boldness inconsciously, and her teenage hormone are going wild. Let's also note that in eastern culture the man must be taller than the women, stronger, be the money maker and the man that stand his ground. The wife is supposed to be calm, submitted to her husband, a perfect housewife etc. (Yes even in Japan)

Now why doesn't she goes for the nice guy she knows since like ever? Well first she knows him since ever. He isn't new. He's not a challenge and represent everything she is (kindness, stability, thing she already knows). Maybe he's not experienced (seen as a bad sign in hum...like any culture? Because girls like them with experience you see -_-'''). So she's not interested in him. Cue again teenage hormone going wild for adventure and not for long term relationship.


I'm sure there is more reasons, but I cannot find them for the moment. Also my theories might seem a little farfecthed (okay a LOT). Iread some shojo in my times (Card captor Sakura, Sailor Moon, Ouran (my favorite) a bit of Good Ending and some other not worth to be mentionned).

Good luck with your parody! If it isn't sorry that I mistook it! And sorry for my bad english!
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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There is only one Shojo i actually started getting into. It was called "Dear Brother!"

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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
There is only one Shojo i actually started getting into. It was called "Dear Brother!"

Image


Ooooh, I'm reading that, too, and I must say it's kinda sweet. Although I do feel like the sister should have punched the jerk who lied about why they broke off the engagement in front of her co-workers (seriously, it's totally worth getting fired over!) and... I read Happy Marriage? beforehand and... ugh, one of the guys looks like a copy-paste version of Hokuto and it's obviously playing to those two getting together, since none of them are actually blood-related...

Quote:
From a marketing point of view it's a more safe approach to use a path that has already been proven.


But that's such a huge problem. As Critic said in his review of Cat In The Hat, continuously showing people something they already saw and basically telling them what they want to see, we get no original ideas. And eventually, people are gonna get sick and tired of seeing the same thing over and over.
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Quote:
Bovarism/ Identification to the main protagonist


No. No no no no, I do not buy that point. I can't tell you how often I have read a manga or even a western book about an every day girl's life and felt like getting into the series and smacking her around, yelling at her to grow some fucking balls.

And what girl actually enjoys getting repeatedly dicked around by guys and made fun of and never stands up for herself and always waits for her Prince/Hero to arrive? If anybody mentions Twilight, I will find you and I will punch you in the gut! Yes, Disney was a big influence in its years, most of the girls did barely anything - at least until around Belle - and still got their prince in the end. But that's obviously always stylized after a fairy tale: and Shoujo Manga are tailored after real life. Real Life is not a Fairy Tale.
Thankfully, even Disney started to get a few more active things for their heroines to do.

Quote:
Remember the first time you fell in love.


I believe I was around or under the age of 5 when I had my "first love". And I barely remember any of it, but even with nostalgia glasses on, I know I was never as dumb as I was as the girls in any manga or franchise I read or saw.

Although I have to say, the Japanese mobbing system seems kind of... intimidating at times. At least more than what I remember from being mobbed myself. In Japanese manga, a girl gets mobbed by almost getting her face sliced open, her face almost burned in the home ec room or gets set up to almost get raped, or gang-raped. Or the most simple form: putting flowers on their desks.
* For those who do not know what this means...
putting flowers on a student's desk in the Japanese culture is a sign that the student who used to occupy that desk has died. *
That is a huge difference to the western one. I got either ignored, my stuff thrown down stairs or made fun of... like that time when they all circled around me on the playground and, for no reason, tried to pull my skirt down... Can anyone blame me for hating skirts!?

Puh, got a bit too emotional there... as much as fantasy is done to cater to a mind, I do wish stuff was done to give us something new. It's all nice to read about a shy girl being dicked around a bit but... my god, wouldn't she start to learn how to react to that by the third time it happened? You know, a reaction that isn't sitting in the corner and going, "sniff Why? He was so nice to me! Why did he do that suddenly? Am I not attractive enough? sniff sniff Or is he just playing with me? How dare he! I wish I could retaliate but I can't...! Booohoooo! sniff sniff"

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
There is only one Shojo i actually started getting into. It was called "Dear Brother!"

Image


Ooooh, I'm reading that, too, and I must say it's kinda sweet. Although I do feel like the sister should have punched the jerk who lied about why they broke off the engagement in front of her co-workers (seriously, it's totally worth getting fired over!) and... I read Happy Marriage? beforehand and... ugh, one of the guys looks like a copy-paste version of Hokuto and it's obviously playing to those two getting together, since none of them are actually blood-related...


I think that's why I got into it because honestly, I'm a big sucker for love theme manga if the couples interest me. I'm my god yes I was so upset how he used her like that, luckily her brothers were there to have her open her eyes. Well who would you choose out of the 3 brothers to be with her? :notes:
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Shao-Mae wrote:
Now why doesn't she goes for the nice guy she knows since like ever? Well first she knows him since ever. He isn't new. He's not a challenge and represent everything she is (kindness, stability, thing she already knows). Maybe he's not experienced (seen as a bad sign in hum...like any culture? Because girls like them with experience you see -_-'''). So she's not interested in him. Cue again teenage hormone going wild for adventure and not for long term relationship.

And sometimes the nice guy is also still in the "friend/family zone"; poor girl feels awkward looking at him like that. At least that's how I always saw it...

Shao-Mae wrote:
I already stated the "japanese type of girl". So guess what this calm and ranged girl dream for a guy? That's right, the rebel type. The type of guy who seem to promise you a life full of adventure and not a boring. Why is she still attracted to her even if he's a real jerk? Because he's the embodiment of what she truly desire a rebeillion (see another teenage phase), a guy who isn't like everybody else, a guy full of freedom. She admire his boldness inconsciously, and her teenage hormone are going wild. Let's also note that in eastern culture the man must be taller than the women, stronger, be the money maker and the man that stand his ground. The wife is supposed to be calm, submitted to her husband, a perfect housewife etc. (Yes even in Japan)


Okay, now I have an idea. Cat, you mind if I smash some cliches too? :scientific:
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
I think that's why I got into it because honestly, I'm a big sucker for love theme manga if the couples interest me. I'm my god yes I was so upset how he used her like that, luckily her brothers were there to have her open her eyes. Well who would you choose out of the 3 brothers to be with her? :notes:


Frankly? Neither of them.
I hate the idea of brother-sister, even if it's stepbrother and stepsister, it's also the whole idea that they grew up with each other for part of their lives. It reminds me too much of Childhoodfriends and I think people know by now how I feel towards that.

But yes, the guy deserves to be kicked in the crotch a few times. Still pissed that the sister just took the idea, "Oh he broke it off with her because she cheated on him" instead of telling them the truth that he dropped her cause they revealed what a broken, gambling ass hat he was.

Quote:
Okay, now I have an idea. Cat, you mind if I smash some cliches too? :scientific:


Go ahead. If it's a really good one, I might want to use it in the manga.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
I think that's why I got into it because honestly, I'm a big sucker for love theme manga if the couples interest me. I'm my god yes I was so upset how he used her like that, luckily her brothers were there to have her open her eyes. Well who would you choose out of the 3 brothers to be with her? :notes:


Frankly? Neither of them.
I hate the idea of brother-sister, even if it's stepbrother and stepsister, it's also the whole idea that they grew up with each other for part of their lives. It reminds me too much of Childhoodfriends and I think people know by now how I feel towards that.

But yes, the guy deserves to be kicked in the crotch a few times. Still pissed that the sister just took the idea, "Oh he broke it off with her because she cheated on him" instead of telling them the truth that he dropped her cause they revealed what a broken, gambling ass hat he was.

There nothing wrong with the brother-sister pairing especially if there not blood related, which I can't deny that I like that theme since i'm a huge fan Oreimo. Well I thought it was better that way, but didn't her brothers expose the real reason?
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
There nothing wrong with the brother-sister pairing especially if there not blood related, which I can't deny that I like that theme since i'm a huge fan Oreimo. Well I thought it was better that way, but didn't her brothers expose the real reason?


It might be partially because I read way too much H Manga and every second one was brother fucking his sister or vice-versa. I know there are people out there who have that fetish, but I don't see it. I went through a phase of having somewhat of a crush on my older brother, but then the DNA stuff kicked in and the idea of having sex with a closely related person is just disgusting.
Another may be because, as I listed, brother-sister growing up together. There's familiarity, but also too much familiarity. Even if they are stepsiblings. Just... urgh the idea of having sex with a sibling is just, urgh~!

They did? I don't remember...

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
There nothing wrong with the brother-sister pairing especially if there not blood related, which I can't deny that I like that theme since i'm a huge fan Oreimo. Well I thought it was better that way, but didn't her brothers expose the real reason?


It might be partially because I read way too much H Manga and every second one was brother fucking his sister or vice-versa. I know there are people out there who have that fetish, but I don't see it. I went through a phase of having somewhat of a crush on my older brother, but then the DNA stuff kicked in and the idea of having sex with a closely related person is just disgusting.
Another may be because, as I listed, brother-sister growing up together. There's familiarity, but also too much familiarity. Even if they are stepsiblings. Just... urgh the idea of having sex with a sibling is just, urgh~!

They did? I don't remember...

C-A


Well makes sense how you feel towards the whole BrotherxSister relationship since you know first hand how it feels to have feelings towards a brother, so I wouldn't know how it feels since I'm a only child. Yeah I believe so from what I remember ill look up the chapter and send you the link if I find it.
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Okay, now I have an idea. Cat, you mind if I smash some cliches too? :scientific:


Go ahead. If it's a really good one, I might want to use it in the manga.

C-A


Sweet! 'Scuse me if my shorthand names aren't quite accurate, but that's how I see 'em.

Alright then, so we've got "Doormat has chemistry with Nice Guy but ends up with FamousPimp!Jerk", plus "Male must be big, strong breadwinner and Female must be the perfect housewife".

I was thinking turning Miss Doormat into Miss Badass Hero/MafiaBoss and making her grow up with FamousPimp!Jerk instead of Nice Guy. Instead, Nice Guy is the new guy, who repeatedly tries and fails to befriend/(unconsciously?)flirt with Miss Badass, simply because he remembers one (misinterpreted) instance of her being "nice" to him (like, say, throwing a book at him and it turns out to be the one he was looking for). Miss Badass is still short and Nice Guy is still tall simply because it's cliche for the badass to be tall and the wimp to be short.

Nice Guy starts falling for Rival Girl, who is the equal opposite of Miss Badass (ie. if Miss Badass is the Hero/Protector of the school, Rival Girl believes and tries to persuade everyone Miss Badass has some scandal behind her; if Miss Badass is the Mafia Boss who instills fear in everyone, Rival Girl is the only one other than Nice Guy who stands up to her) and a bit of a Dandere. Rival Girl starts convincing him to stay away from her.

Miss Badass, at the same time, is getting asked out by FamousPimp!Jerk for reasons I can't fathom right now. She accepts out of pure boredom (well, that or he's the rebound...).

... At that point, I don't know whether it would be more cliche to pair Nice Guy and Miss Badass or FamousPimp!Jerk and Miss Badass. Probably the least cliche thing to do would be pair Miss Badass and Rival Girl, but we all know the yuri fans will be doing that behind our backs anyway xD 'Course, for a straight ending we could always pull out Guy C and pair him with Miss Badass... And have him legitimately fall for and chase after her, too, after it's revealed (to the audience, at least) that Nice Guy's secretly a Yandere who's on the run after killing his family and ex-girlfriend and/or FamousPimp!Jerk raped Guy C's girlfriend/sister/mom :beef:
So I finally grew a brain and remembered to give myself a signature... Whoopee.
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title

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Sound nice! But I would change the height for the guy smaller than the girl simply because the cliché of the guy being taller is more stronger. I the girl had more shoulder (muscle built but not intense) than his male counterpart I think it would be interesting, but a bit cliché I admit. I would match her with Famouspimp because she just like jerks (and not the classic the jerk is actually super sweet. NO HE'S A REAAAAL JERK) I would figure she just want sex and can't find anyone else enough potent. Okay I shut up.

Not yet: Cat don't worry I too am sick of the copy-paste of the industry (not only manga, but music, games, books and particulary movies). That's why sometime I like independent media a bit more these day.
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Yeah... in Shoujo Deconstruct, the plot idea starts with this: my heroine is disliked in school and then gets asked to be the pretend-girlfriend of the most popular guy in school, cause he's so good looking and he models and he's so nice to girls and (insert more awesomeness about him)
He kisses her... she punches him in the gut.
Then becomes the pretend-girlfriend against monetary compensation. Oh and the guy turns out to be a jerk. And he IS a jerk, like, he will not suddenly turn out to be nice and sweet in any way. No, this guy is a total dick. Also, the heroine will not be a virgin... just putting that out there.

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Ooh, sounds interesting~! :sparkly-maggey: But wait... She becomes the pretend-girlfriend against monetary compensation?? *needs clarification* :yuusaku:

I'mma go use my plot idea for my own manga, then, since you've got your own... It's the first idea I've wanted to draw for in months :nick-sweat:
So I finally grew a brain and remembered to give myself a signature... Whoopee.
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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Yeah... in Shoujo Deconstruct, the plot idea starts with this: my heroine is disliked in school and then gets asked to be the pretend-girlfriend of the most popular guy in school, cause he's so good looking and he models and he's so nice to girls and (insert more awesomeness about him)
He kisses her... she punches him in the gut.
Then becomes the pretend-girlfriend against monetary compensation. Oh and the guy turns out to be a jerk. And he IS a jerk, like, he will not suddenly turn out to be nice and sweet in any way. No, this guy is a total dick. Also, the heroine will not be a virgin... just putting that out there.

C-A


So thats basically your background story for your Shoujo that your gonna make? Seems like there isn't gonna be much of a win-win situation for both characters. Also what you mean she's not gonna be a virgin? Did she get raped, had sex with your main guy, or from a previous relationship?
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9mayasato9 wrote:
Ooh, sounds interesting~! :sparkly-maggey: But wait... She becomes the pretend-girlfriend against monetary compensation?? *needs clarification* :yuusaku:


Well, he pays her for being the pretend-girlfriend. He figured her only 'compensation' would be to be with him, but she didn't care for that. He gives her that kiss in front of people, they walk a bit away, she punches him in the gut and then says she'll be the girlfriend (since he kinda "made a contract" with the kiss) if he pays her.

Quote:
So thats basically your background story for your Shoujo that your gonna make? Seems like there isn't gonna be much of a win-win situation for both characters. Also what you mean she's not gonna be a virgin? Did she get raped, had sex with your main guy, or from a previous relationship?


Win-Win Situation? This is Shoujo Deconstruct, those two aren't gonna become a real couple! No matter how much of a dick that guy is, she is not gonna end up with him. That's the thing, I'm taking clichés you find in Shoujo, but smash them - the girl is not gonna end up with the jerk, she's not even gonna love him at any point (he might fall for her, I haven't decided yet) or anything like that.

And no, Yu (her name, Yamada Yu) did not get raped. By the time the story starts, she has already been in a relationship with a guy for over a year. She actually talks with him about the pretend-girlfriend thing and the boyfriend is okay with it, seeing as it's pretend and all.

Downside, except for Yu's name, I have no idea what to call the guys...

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
9mayasato9 wrote:
Ooh, sounds interesting~! :sparkly-maggey: But wait... She becomes the pretend-girlfriend against monetary compensation?? *needs clarification* :yuusaku:


Well, he pays her for being the pretend-girlfriend. He figured her only 'compensation' would be to be with him, but she didn't care for that. He gives her that kiss in front of people, they walk a bit away, she punches him in the gut and then says she'll be the girlfriend (since he kinda "made a contract" with the kiss) if he pays her.

Quote:
So thats basically your background story for your Shoujo that your gonna make? Seems like there isn't gonna be much of a win-win situation for both characters. Also what you mean she's not gonna be a virgin? Did she get raped, had sex with your main guy, or from a previous relationship?


Win-Win Situation? This is Shoujo Deconstruct, those two aren't gonna become a real couple! No matter how much of a dick that guy is, she is not gonna end up with him. That's the thing, I'm taking clichés you find in Shoujo, but smash them - the girl is not gonna end up with the jerk, she's not even gonna love him at any point (he might fall for her, I haven't decided yet) or anything like that.

And no, Yu (her name, Yamada Yu) did not get raped. By the time the story starts, she has already been in a relationship with a guy for over a year. She actually talks with him about the pretend-girlfriend thing and the boyfriend is okay with it, seeing as it's pretend and all.

Downside, except for Yu's name, I have no idea what to call the guys...

C-A

Ah i see. I figured as much, that's why i said it didn't look like there was NOT gonna be a win-win situation for both of them. Okie makes sense now, so while she is still pretending to be his girlfriend she still has a boyfriend.
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Well, he pays her for being the pretend-girlfriend. He figured her only 'compensation' would be to be with him, but she didn't care for that. He gives her that kiss in front of people, they walk a bit away, she punches him in the gut and then says she'll be the girlfriend (since he kinda "made a contract" with the kiss) if he pays her.


Ohhh! OK, I get it now! :larry2:

CatMuto wrote:
Win-Win Situation? This is Shoujo Deconstruct, those two aren't gonna become a real couple! No matter how much of a dick that guy is, she is not gonna end up with him. That's the thing, I'm taking clichés you find in Shoujo, but smash them - the girl is not gonna end up with the jerk, she's not even gonna love him at any point (he might fall for her, I haven't decided yet) or anything like that.

And no, Yu (her name, Yamada Yu) did not get raped. By the time the story starts, she has already been in a relationship with a guy for over a year. She actually talks with him about the pretend-girlfriend thing and the boyfriend is okay with it, seeing as it's pretend and all.

Downside, except for Yu's name, I have no idea what to call the guys...

C-A


Hmm.... For Jerkface, how about Yarou Temae Etoku Kyouka?
So I finally grew a brain and remembered to give myself a signature... Whoopee.
Snackoos IRL. They are delicious and are covered in real chocolate. #so-grateful-I'm-Filipino

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Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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9mayasato9 wrote:
Hmm.... For Jerkface, how about Yarou Temae Etoku Kyouka?


...Etoku Kyouka? Sounds dumb.
Nah, I have to first get the appearance down - I know he'll be light haired - and then check for names that might fit and the kind that seem to fit. You know, see if he maybe "looks" like a name. Ditto on the boyfriend... I know the boyfriend will be modeled a bit after Izumi from Horimiya.

C-A
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
9mayasato9 wrote:
Hmm.... For Jerkface, how about Yarou Temae Etoku Kyouka?


...Etoku Kyouka? Sounds dumb.
Nah, I have to first get the appearance down - I know he'll be light haired - and then check for names that might fit and the kind that seem to fit. You know, see if he maybe "looks" like a name. Ditto on the boyfriend... I know the boyfriend will be modeled a bit after Izumi from Horimiya.

C-A


You should post it up on here. I wouldn't mind reading it. :hotti:
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Prosecutor Yuugami wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
9mayasato9 wrote:
Hmm.... For Jerkface, how about Yarou Temae Etoku Kyouka?


...Etoku Kyouka? Sounds dumb.
Nah, I have to first get the appearance down - I know he'll be light haired - and then check for names that might fit and the kind that seem to fit. You know, see if he maybe "looks" like a name. Ditto on the boyfriend... I know the boyfriend will be modeled a bit after Izumi from Horimiya.

C-A


You should post it up on here. I wouldn't mind reading it. :hotti:


I probably will. It's not in story format, though, it's manga. I might put a link to the story when I get far enough to start.

C-A
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Quote:
You should post it up on here. I wouldn't mind reading it. :hotti:


Quote:
I probably will. It's not in story format, though, it's manga. I might put a link to the story when I get far enough to start.

C-A

Alright cool. Did you do the Name for your manga yet? :notes:
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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Title will be either Shoujo Deconstruct or Shoujo Destruct.... can't quite decide on one. XD

C-A
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I really like the manga, Yandere Kanojo.

Image

It's about a tough girl who's secretly dating a kind of ordinary, geeky guy. It's seems pretty funny so far. I like how the main character isn't as dripp and annoying a main character. Though I think she, like probably all Shoujo manga protagonists, freaks out a little too much over things.

I think my favourite Shoujo series would probably be Kuragehime. The characters are all so quirky and I think it really defies the formula in actually being fun to watch. It's not all sappy and leaves me with a real feeling of happiness each time I watch it. Though, I think it's technically a Josei manga. :eh?:

Spoiler: Big Picture
Image


I think the most annoying thing about Shoujo manga is how long it takes for characters to confess their love, then they end up ruining it over stupid stuff, only for it to end happily! That really irritates me. :larry:
Image
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
...Etoku Kyouka? Sounds dumb.
Nah, I have to first get the appearance down - I know he'll be light haired - and then check for names that might fit and the kind that seem to fit. You know, see if he maybe "looks" like a name. Ditto on the boyfriend... I know the boyfriend will be modeled a bit after Izumi from Horimiya.

C-A


I meant with these kanji: 会得 鏡花 (former two: comprehension/perception, latter two: mirror flower), but yeah, it's not the coolest-sounding name :oops:

*looks up Izumi* ... Why is it that when I tried to imagine him light-haired, I immediately thought of :garyuu: ? :eh?:

Planning on giving him a Japanese name or something else?
So I finally grew a brain and remembered to give myself a signature... Whoopee.
Snackoos IRL. They are delicious and are covered in real chocolate. #so-grateful-I'm-Filipino

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Probably, yeah. I don't really have them planned out to be semi-foreign or anything.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Title will be either Shoujo Deconstruct or Shoujo Destruct.... can't quite decide on one. XD

C-A


Haha no, Name is a rough draft for a manga. :keiko:
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title
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God help me, I love Shoujo. Though it is somewhat overdue for another deconstruction. But then again, this is why shoujo-ai tends to be superior and somewhat of a deconstruction already. Some of the tropes present in regular shoujo are not there by definition, and so it tends to mix things up a little. But then again, you slap yuri on anything, I'm there. I've watched Strawberry Panic (sorta slows down a lot in the latter half, ending was a letdown, most interesting characters were secondary characters), Blue Drop (I've heard the manga is nothing like the anime, always been curious), Kashimashi (okay, this was really good), Sasameki Koto (GREAT shoujo-ai, read the manga all the way through, never got bored).

... But maybe shoujo-ai never really has the same tropes as shoujo, does it? Thinking on it, how much shoujo have I actually watched? I mean, Sailor Moon was cool, but you can never beat the classics and all their narmy, hammy goodness. I think Fruits Basket counts as well...

Though to answer at least one question, I think the "never been kissed" thing relates to Japan views of sexuality. The first kiss is treated like an American's "first time", and so a girl that had been kissed before and gives her first kiss away before the main love interest? Expect slut shaming. It's stupid, but that's the way things are, as I understand it.

Okay, I've rambled enough, just dropping in to say "this is interesting".

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Well, maybe my upbringing was really different no matter cultural differences - growing up in an america-german household - but I think I mentioned, I had my first "lip to lip contact" at around the age of 4... I'm not really saying it was a kiss because, well, it technically wasn't. It was like half a second of contact.

Don't Japanese children ever do that when playing with other kids?
Just wondering... I don't think I ever heard the idea that a kiss is like someone's first time.
Wait, does that mean I'm not a virgin anymore? XD

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Well, maybe my upbringing was really different no matter cultural differences - growing up in an america-german household - but I think I mentioned, I had my first "lip to lip contact" at around the age of 4... I'm not really saying it was a kiss because, well, it technically wasn't. It was like half a second of contact.

Don't Japanese children ever do that when playing with other kids?
Just wondering... I don't think I ever heard the idea that a kiss is like someone's first time.
Wait, does that mean I'm not a virgin anymore? XD

C-A

While it wouldn't mean you weren't a virgin, you would probably be looked down upon. Japan's views on kissing are like... a knuckle below what the standards are in India- and we all remember the Richard Gere catastrophe. And yeah, it is a weird cultural thing in Japan to treat lip-to-lip contact as a huge a deal as it is. But it's a fairly big deal over there. Like, setting aside that Idols are quickly destroyed by the media for even so much as going no a date with a guy (let alone have physical contact), a kiss would be the ultimate betrayal of being an Idol. While standards on regular women aren't as strict, it's still a huge cultural thing for the first kiss.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dFirstKiss
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I don't remember any scandal about Richard Gere... then again, I have zero interest in the celebrity world or anything like that.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
I don't remember any scandal about Richard Gere... then again, I have zero interest in the celebrity world or anything like that.

C-A

Basically, Richard Gere kissed an Indian actress during a trip to India. A huge fuss was made. Or so I recall, I don't really pay that much attention either, to be honest.

Though I think I'm gonna solve the puzzle...

C I A

What do I win? =D
Re: Why do people enjoy this Shoujo Manga formula?Topic%20Title

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CatMuto wrote:
Well, maybe my upbringing was really different no matter cultural differences - growing up in an america-german household - but I think I mentioned, I had my first "lip to lip contact" at around the age of 4... I'm not really saying it was a kiss because, well, it technically wasn't. It was like half a second of contact.

Don't Japanese children ever do that when playing with other kids?
Just wondering... I don't think I ever heard the idea that a kiss is like someone's first time.
Wait, does that mean I'm not a virgin anymore? XD

C-A


Well as far as I know japanese were never the kind of people who enjoy a lot of physical contact... Also the principle that young women shall be "pure" is stil strong in the east. But, I remember when I was like around 10 that I thought the first kiss was important because it was something personal (not really fond of physical contact either).

Doesn't mean you're not virgin, but hum... more smart and less stupid/naive?

Quick googling about the Gere scandal, the kiss was seen as an obscene act because it was done in public. But it's only a media made scandal, the public didn't give a crap.
Please don't hit me...
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Really? I coudla swore that the reason you never see kissing in a bollywood movie is because kissing is taboo outside of marriage.
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