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Black Fable: The Town of Moonview (Post-game Thread)Topic%20Title
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Thank you to everyone who participated, I think this was a very fun experience! This idea was a bit experimental as I wanted to try something new, so I hope you guys enjoyed it.

Might post some of my extra thoughts a bit later.
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gg
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Here are the QT links for the Whispers.

Esther and André:http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/G8mEi8QsLNFQ
Howard and Pétur: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/c8DL6h7dDL9h
Cooper and Forsythia: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/PYN9uVmQaxZa
Esther and Cooper: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/teVnsXhSKqN

Spoiler: .
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100% Ship André and Esther in the end.

Though my god when you accidentally sent me that letter from Cooper it was hilarious!
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Pierre wrote:
100% Ship André and Esther in the end.

Though my god when you accidentally sent me that letter from Cooper it was hilarious!

Ooooh yeah I 'member that slight mishap.

I'll also probably get around to posting the letters once I decide on how I'm going to store them
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That was fun!

I, uh, don't really have anything insightful to add. It was fun. That's what a good forum game needs to be. I'm satisfied.
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That was cool. I like the idea of having smaller, less serious and mentally taxing games like this one from time to time but that still include RPing and have good characters. Black Fable is just like a cool simple concept for doing that but it's also really malleable, so F definitely deserved kudos for the idea.

André, Cooper, and Forsynthia were probably my favorites. I like how Howard really fit with his role to the point where it was obvious in retrospect. Most of the Coven died before they did much but Amory was cool. I did like the backstory touches too even if it wasn't a huge focus.

If I had any issues it's that sometimes I felt the game stuck to TOS too strictly instead of trying to adapt it for a foreign setting, but it wasn't really a huge deal and usually that stuff would be fixed on the next go round.

I think watching this though I'm fairly confident that I personally wouldn't have a lot of fun participating in one of these. I'm looking forward to where this goes in the future though,, and there's a good chance I'll try my hand at running one some day.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Xander's diary entries are really neat
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Last edited by Planetbox on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ah in honestly just RPing is fun. The game worked out well here but I do worry if the gameplay aspects could just hinder the RP aspects in future. D: You ain't meant to care about the people that you are forced to murder.

I've love to run a more freeform fantasy roleplaying thing here but I'd have no idea how to operate it.

Also just wanted to highlight some fantastic wit from Panda from the Coven thread:

Amory "...Do you guys think André wants to bang Cooper, or Esther?" Amory asked randomly.

Petur: "...Amory, I'm 482 years old. I'm so old that I've moved past 'celibacy' and reached new stages beyond it that men never thought possible. Take your childish questions elsewhere."
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Yeah the obvious downside to this game is some characters will feel incredibly shafted compared to others cause of the gameplay. Characters like William and Jonas unfortunately didn't get to do anything
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Well that was interesting! And I hope it gets revisited in the future!

The coven had a pretty disasppointing showing here. Obviously the entertainment of a mafia-style game is contingent upon the zany shenanigans that the smaller faction can get up to, and we never got too much of that unfortunately.

And yeah something should be done to narratively help characters feel more satisfying to play. Trials having a time limit really messed up Howard's story. When people died in the middle of the night, it felt pretty abrupt too.
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CaptainPancakes wrote:
Yeah the obvious downside to this game is some characters will feel incredibly shafted compared to others cause of the gameplay. Characters like William and Jonas unfortunately didn't get to do anything


Credit to Slezak, he made it worthwhile in the afterlife. Jonas was a good dude.

Did the Coven not get their own equivalent of a dead thread?
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Pierre wrote:
CaptainPancakes wrote:
Yeah the obvious downside to this game is some characters will feel incredibly shafted compared to others cause of the gameplay. Characters like William and Jonas unfortunately didn't get to do anything


Credit to Slezak, he made it worthwhile in the afterlife. Jonas was a good dude.

Did the Coven not get their own equivalent of a dead thread?

The dead thread was also for the Coven to use, but they didn't seem to post in it.
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> Obviously the entertainment of a mafia-style game is contingent upon the zany shenanigans that the smaller faction can get up to, and we never got too much of that unfortunately.


The EZ solution is to let the mafia win
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TheLetterF wrote:
Pierre wrote:
CaptainPancakes wrote:
Yeah the obvious downside to this game is some characters will feel incredibly shafted compared to others cause of the gameplay. Characters like William and Jonas unfortunately didn't get to do anything


Credit to Slezak, he made it worthwhile in the afterlife. Jonas was a good dude.

Did the Coven not get their own equivalent of a dead thread?

The dead thread was also for the Coven to use, but they didn't seem to post in it.


Oh man, I can just imagine the Undead Brawls that would have erupted had the Coven dared show their face there!


Also reading through the Coven thread, what did William mean when he said he would "keep André on their side" it's a bit ominous.
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I definitely had fun with this, so thanks for running it, F.

That said, I did a pretty poor job as Coven all things considered. If there's ever another of these I'd be interested in going in with this little bit of experience to help matters.

It's unfortunate that roleplaying elements between trials petered out. Makes me wonder if this would be better if it was closer to normal Mafia, with the next Blood Moon being soon after the trial's conclusion. Then again that way we'd have missed out on what we did get early on.

I don't at all blame the Coven's loss on the role distribution, but, I am curious as to the balance in that regard. Townies got all manner of powerful skills, while Coven got very little. Townie skills sometimes seemed even stronger than usual, with Cooper never dying if he hit a Townie and Esther being able to use her dust on the same target every single time if she wanted to. How much does this reflect normal ToS/Mafa role distribution?
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KamiPanda wrote:
I definitely had fun with this, so thanks for running it, F.

That said, I did a pretty poor job as Coven all things considered. If there's ever another of these I'd be interested in going in with this little bit of experience to help matters.

It's unfortunate that roleplaying elements between trials petered out. Makes me wonder if this would be better if it was closer to normal Mafia, with the next Blood Moon being soon after the trial's conclusion. Then again that way we'd have missed out on what we did get early on.

I don't at all blame the Coven's loss on the role distribution, but, I am curious as to the balance in that regard. Townies got all manner of powerful skills, while Coven got very little. Townie skills sometimes seemed even stronger than usual, with Cooper never dying if he hit a Townie and Esther being able to use her dust on the same target every single time if she wanted to. How much does this reflect normal ToS/Mafa role distribution?


In ToS a Vigilante would essentially "die from guilt" if he shot a Townie, and I didn't think it would translate well into this RP.

The Fairy worked in the exact same way as the Escort from ToS.

I took some inspiration from the regular ToS role lists, and tried to have the Coven each have a distinct role, and was initially even worried that William's voteblocking (not an ability available in ToS) would be too OP. The Black Witch was based off of the Mafioso, the Great Witch was based off of the Godfather, and the Poltergeist was a buffed version of the Janitor and could investigate the doings of the Townies. All in all it was a general attempt to mirror the role distribution of an actual ToS game.

I was also initially thinking of having the Incubus be another role-blocking role but I didn't want two people to basically have the same role.

What created difficulty for the Coven was that they had bad luck during the first role phase, and were a bit more passive discussion-wise which led them to be suspected.
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Welp, it's over. GG, all.

I don't really have too much to say, but I had fun overall. Hopefully my character's personality, backstory, blah blah blah was passable, at the very least. Also, I really do feel bad for not being able to heal anyone, lol. But hey, I healed myself from being shot, so that was pretty cool.

But yeah, I'd like to thank F for running this. It was definitely a unique, fun experience. If enough people want to participate in something like this in the future, I'd definitely consider running one.
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Poltergeist wasn't really buffed from Janitor since the Janitor could wipe roles (aka if we killed Andre and Poltergeist followed me, his role would have disappeared and no one but Coven would know he was Detective.)

Obviously, we were not playing well but I think the balance of roles is something that could definitely be looked at. Towns in ToS have an 80% win-rate compared to the evils (keep in mind that there are normally 6 evils to a game), so while modeling after ToS is fine, I think it'd be safer to give Mafia some beefier roles.

Generally though I think a game styled to regular Mafia might work better.
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Quote:
In ToS a Vigilante would essentially "die from guilt" if he shot a Townie, and I didn't think it would translate well into this RP.


While I totally see that it wouldn't work well in RP mode, that is a substantial buff. Though considering this game has lynching, "dying from guilt" isn't a great thing at all. I'm not familiar with ToS roles and wonder if that would have made a difference. Is the three bullets thing a balance to the power being unlimited or is that accurate?
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Pierre wrote:
Quote:
In ToS a Vigilante would essentially "die from guilt" if he shot a Townie, and I didn't think it would translate well into this RP.


While I totally see that it wouldn't work well in RP mode, that is a substantial buff. Though considering this game has lynching, "dying from guilt" isn't a great thing at all. I'm not familiar with ToS roles and wonder if that would have made a difference. Is the three bullets thing a balance to the power being unlimited or is that accurate?


It's generally to dissuade from shooting randomly. With ToS rulesets it benefits Mafia/Coven typically more than it does town. Because of the existence of roles killing people for information is not as strong as just keeping a list of who is what.
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I had a lot of fun with this and think F did a good job GMing. I enjoyed the characters that I did enjoy a lot, and felt that I had a lot more strong favorites than some F games. It was also in general just a more casual, less stressful game than say an NG or F game. There was some comfort in knowing my character could really die at any moment so I always just tried to make sure he could have a graceful exit if it came to that.

It definitely did really help that I got a witch on my first lucky shot though lol.

It was fun interacting with the characters, sussing out witches (even if it did end up being

If I had a complaint about anything in this game it would be that some of the decisions felt a little arbitrary, and usually with the reasoning being that "This is what ToS is like". This isn't as huge a complaint as I'm going to make it sound but it is still stuff that I think should be addressed in future games. And tbf F did adjust some of this stuff when necessary so kudos.

-Actions had to be posted in the qt, but things like letters needed to be sent through Discord or CR PMs. I get the reasoning in that the qts get dumped, but I think it would've just been better if there was a qt summary dumped for the role reveal rather than the qt itself. This would make it so everything just goes in the qt (and it wouldn't be as pesky to gather up all the letters) and in general I like it when people use the qts but there just wasn't much reason to here because of their rigid purpose.

To add on to this, I think the witches should've had an OOC qt rather than a group DM. Maybe the DM is just a lot easier but the best part of mafia to me is always checking up on the qt after and being able to see the tapestry of thought that went into the decisions. I'm pretty disappointed it's not here.

-For future GMs: I think players should submit their character and then after the GM assigns roles. Become familiar with roles from mafia and ToS, and be prepared to make your own (usually some combination of two, or a modification of one). In my experience the easiest way to balance is to give everyone a fairly underwhelming ability, but also make sure any strong ability can be directly countered by the other faction.

-I also don't think these games need to always be witch hunts in the ToS era. I'll leave it up to other GMs but I think something in the prohibition era where the villains are the mafia instead of the Coven, or other variations of the idea. I don't mind more ToS era either but I think this kind of rping mafia experience really can mix up the framework easily as long as it ends up being "good faction vs evil faction".

-Something else I think people should keep in mind is that at the core these games are mafia/ToS. It's easy to get attached to a character you're rping but at the end of the day it's more of a competition and you should be prepared to die for really any reason the other faction thinks. Witches eliminating players who are doing really well is a legitimate strategy and I expect to see it in future games, even if it seems unfair.

Character stuff:

-Great tier: Esther, Cooper (yeahimrankingmyownshutup)

-Not great but still better than good tier: André, Forsythia, Jonas

-Good Tier: Howard, Amory, Avis, Xander

-Mediocre Tier: Pétur, William

I actually didn't really think any of the characters were bad, but Vaughan and Emilia were definitely completely forgettable and kind of just there. Also André would absolutely be my favorite if he stayed dead. It's a very conflicting twist for me because of course I'm happy that he's alive but I prefer for the dead characters to stay dead. It makes the journey feel like the town sacrificed a bit more, and makes the final cast a bit more worn down which I also like.

I know it's really just a gameplay element so it's weird to criticize, but if you view the game as a 'story' it's just a twist I'd rather not have. Also being able to revive a member of the dead at any time is kind of an absurdly powerful ability so from a gameplay perspective it's not that great either. I agree with Panda that the Coven were definitely far outclassed when it came to abilities but I do still think the Coven should've had a better plan (also fwiw Panda I didn't think you did bad anyway and nabbing Pétur at the end was more just Avis' ability + process of elimination).

And on another note, I'll say that for the future players should know that inactivity is very bad. It hurts whatever faction you're in. If you're in the town, the town will not really be able to discern your allegiance at all short of a role claim and they might come to the conclusion that it's best to just kill you early. If you're in the coven the same logic applies but a coven dying on their team is a much more significant loss. Also inactivity in general is a fairly reliable metric for deducing witches anyway because witches never want to accidentally say the wrong thing, so they say nothing.

Anyway I'm sure I'll have more to say but that's all for now. Mainly good job F and looking forward to more of these.
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That was a fun game, and actually ended up quite emotional thanks to the RPing.

I'm sad Jonas didn't get to do more in the game, but I tried to make up for it by being active in the Dead Thread. I would've been moreso had I not had a vacation last week.

The Discord channel already had a taste of the salt I spilled when I found out I was an RNG victim, but . . . I imagine the Coven would've kicked themselves had I gone with my instinct of self-protection the first night, so I have no reason to be angry at them. Besides, it is just a game in the end.

Power distribution did seem a bit town-sided, but I do believe it also had to do with the Vig getting a lucky shot N1. The Coven honestly looked like they imploded after Vaughan's death. Good game to everyone though.

I saw something about more freeform RP being discussed earlier. I'd definitely love to see more from these types of characters as some of them reeeeaaaaaally had potential. If I thought enough people would be interested, I might have considered creating something similar to School Mode. I fear, however, that that sort of formula has kind of run its course . . . If anyone had any suggestions or even just moral support, I'd gladly try to figure something out.

Anyway, congratulations to the Town for winning, the Coven for putting up a fair fight, and F for a delightful little game which ended up having some quite big moments. I'd love to see what comes next!
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Uh yeah, not much else to say. GG F, this was a fun game and I enjoyed playing it. Kind of disappointed how I died but whatever. I liked the more casual tone of this game as well, and it was fun enough to participate in. My favourite characters were probably Jason, Cooper, William surprisingly enough, and Esther; but everyone did do a good job overall. Don’t have much to say in terms of criticisms, most of my points have already been kind of covered. I will say I do agree with JM in just making a summary QT for dead townies rather than posting the QTs themselves, that bothered me a tad. Anyway, that’s about it. Thanks to everyone else for playing and making this fun to be in.
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I had a great time! There are some tweaks that could have made this a little more immersive, in my opinion, but it was an amazing effort. I loved the entire cast. I do wish I could have seen more of some of these characters and some more interactions.

And I kind of agree with JM's point about André staying dead. I think permanent death makes a more interesting story with higher stakes. But I also ship André and Esther, so I'm torn.

Thank you, everyone, for the game! (And an extra thank you to the guys who complimented my character. :D)
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And it's over now! gg everyone

so yeah I guess I didn't get to/didn't do much at the beginning then died right away but what can you do about that? After my F1 and F2 characters I will take a mediocre over 'who?', and somehow a few people liked William so

I'm interested in any ideas that allow for better freeform RPing despite stuff like that, but I do think the Black Fable games(yes the sequels are already a given fite me) should stay mostly focused on being Mafia + RPing. I do agree that the setting can definitely change, I want to see more done with the BF lore though.

People have already talked about the balance and all so I guess that's something for the future GMs to sort out since it depends on the specific roles.

My favorite characters were probably Esther/Forsythia/Andre. Amory was my favorite when it comes to the coven. Everyone mostly did good with their characters though.

Oh and

Quote:
Also reading through the Coven thread, what did William mean when he said he would "keep André on their side" it's a bit ominous.


He is an Incubus so I will leave that up to everyone's imagination.

So yeah, thanks to F for running this/probably starting what will be a series of other interesting RPs, I'll definitely be looking forward to anything else like this in the future.
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Eh, it's a gameplay mechanic so André living in the end isn't really his fault.

In terms of characters Forsythia was my favorite for sure, followed by Esther. Although I really don't think I was that emotionally attached to many characters because I pretty much expected that some characters would go out with a whimper. Name of the game. Haven't read dead thread yet so my characters opinions can still change, surely.
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That's right don't hate on the undead!

I kinda love how Emilia's power seemed super weak at first to me and then she goes and drops that nuke at the end. It seemed so crazy in how that could tip the scales that I wondered if there was some kind of trade off. Like being unconscious for a round of voting or something.

I think I'd be fine playing again but having seen how it is once before I'd probably hold back a little on my character for a couple reasons.

1: Being emotionally invested can suck when you can die at any time.

2: Being outspoken and "too good" as JM put it can put a target on your back.

Knowing more about the setting will help as well. I had no idea that magic existed outside the coven and so wondered deeply about some of our allies at times. Knowing that good and bad magic users are a thing will definitely help since I didn't know ToS roles before.
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CaptainPancakes wrote:
Eh, it's a gameplay mechanic so André living in the end isn't really his fault.

In terms of characters Forsythia was my favorite for sure, followed by Esther. Although I really don't think I was that emotionally attached to many characters because I pretty much expected that some characters would go out with a whimper. Name of the game. Haven't read dead thread yet so my characters opinions can still change, surely.

Late response but I didn't think it his fault or anything, just the stinger death for the second blood moon was something I had really enjoyed. So it was sad to see it undone.
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