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When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Just to be on the safe side I'm using a spoiler tag as well. Believe me, you don't want this spoiled for you!
Spoiler: JFA case 4
When did you realise that Matt Engarde was actually guilty? For me it started when I found out that he had bought the giant bear and the camera, but I just thought "Nah! Surely he can't be the one!" I fully realised at about the same time as Phoenix did, just when you have presented the final piece of evidence to break Matt's psyche-lock and it suddenly all becomes clear. How did any of you work it out? How early on (or late) in the case did you realise?

Hypotenuse Man wrote:
The way I envision it is this:

"Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
Win. Just win! :jazzron: :jazzsneeze: :jazzedgy: :Keko-hands:
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I was pretty sure from the beginning, but I kept thinking "but there's no psyche lock!". I think I figured it out after they explained the significance of the card Adrian had, but I still had my doubts about a plot twist like that. I wasn't 100% sure until
Spoiler:
Matt's creepy hair lifting scene. o.O
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Something about that case felt off right from the start.
Spoiler: 2-4 spoilerage!
As soon as de Killer made his demand, I thought the whole thing stunk of bad news. After all, why have someone go to the trouble of kidnapping for ransom to prove an allegedly innocent man not guilty? But then Matt seemed to be such an empty-headed twit, and Adrian seemed so suspicious that I flat out wasn't sure what to think.

I suspected Matt after the first trip to the mansion- that "butler" is pretty obvious, and I spent a good while spazzing about that cat door. The pieces didn't all slam together until I broke Matt's psyche-locks, but I was pretty sure he was the guilty party well before the business with the bear and camera.

Ye gads, words fail to describe how good it felt to see 2-4's spaz.
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"Violence is the last resort of the intelligent, and the first resort of the incompetant." -FFA
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I'm... really slow.

Spoiler:
I never doubted Matt was guilty. >_> I always thought he was innocent until the part where he put back his hair, and even then I was like: "Wait... what?" Yep, I'm not very smart. I wasn't even sure what Phoenix was trying to prove during the psyche-lock thing, and I just chose the right one because there were no other choices. But whatever, that just made me love Matt more. <33 -blind fangirl-
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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When i found out his true identity and his personality and etc etc etc... :sadshoe:
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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As soon as Edgeworth told Phoenix that De Killer was hired by Matt, I figured out the whole "LOL no Psyche Lock because he didn't kill him, he got someone else to do it" thing.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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The Potatoe's NOT a lie!! *cheers*

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It was...

Spoiler:
when I became aware of Adrian's Co-Dependency.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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No need to use spoiler tags if the thread title says MASSIVE SPOILERS.

I'm dense, so I didn't realize it until I broke his psyche-lock.

It should've been obvious as soon as you showed him the transceiver and he says "De Killer?!" and immediately decides to choose you as his attorney. But I fell for that whole ALWAYS TRUST YOUR CLIENT NO MATTER WHAT speech that Mia gives you in AA1.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I dunno...as others have said, there was something "off" about that case all the way through. When you show him Celestes profile and he gets pissed, when you show him the card and "John Doe"'s profile and he gets flustered, even how during your first conversation he only lets you take his case because you mention de Killer's name. Nevertheless, unlike my very smart friend, I didnt forsee the awesome hair/scar/flip/two-face thing.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I had pretty much everything figured out from the first time you talk to De Killer on the transciever. It seemed clear they were setting you up to make a moral decision between saving the girl and preserving justice.

Then there was no psyche lock and I made the mistake of trusting it. I actually felt a little disappointed because I thought "Man, they should've explored the moral dilemma."

But as soon as I heard about an assassin, it clicked that that's why no lock appeared. And I was happy to see they really 'were' exploring the moral decision.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Engarde was suspicious since no Psyche-Locks appeared. I just didn't want to believe that he was the killer...there was no way he could be...

...Then he pulls his "two-face'd" card on me and everything becomes clear. From that moment on, 2-4 became my favorite case in the whole franchise with 1-4 shot down to #2.
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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The way he ate his steak.

Evil people always eat their steaks evilly.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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My secret? You'll need a magatama!

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Agent Macbeth wrote:
...Then he pulls his "two-face'd" card on me and everything becomes clear. From that moment on, 2-4 became my favorite case in the whole franchise with 1-4 shot down to #2.
Same with me. I love that case! I've replayed it more times that I can count (doing it right now actually! :gymshoe:) and I swear I'll never get tired of it!
Hypotenuse Man wrote:
The way I envision it is this:

"Mask *jazz hands!* DeMasque."
Win. Just win! :jazzron: :jazzsneeze: :jazzedgy: :Keko-hands:
Check out my Apollo Justice crossword! More to come soon!
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Well, I was suspicious when I met "John Doe" and saw the door with the cat flap in the living room...

But I didn't actually believe he was guilty until I broke the "Matt's Secret" Psyche Lock. Before he showed his true self, I really got the impression that he would be unable to plot his way out of a paper bag without calling his manager, let alone a murder. XD;;
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I think it was when the kidnapping happened. Logically I couldn't think of any other reason for the demand that was made other than Engarde being guilty of ... something.
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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What a Day. . .

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I thought it was Matt when De Killer told me his demands, but when I questioned Matt and there were no Psylocks I started to think he was innocent and was caught up in someone else's plot.

Then my suspicion came back when I visited his home, then the Hair flip.

-Rufus
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
I already knew he was guilty even before playing the case all the way through, because I spoiled myself silly with the info on this site.

:pshhh: x :yuusaku: - My Fabulous(ly crack) OTP. <3
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

Debunk the bunker buster

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"i didnt kill anyone, dude"

so i noticed when i realized there was an assassin
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: Just testing the Spoiler tag
I suspected it when Matt was the first one to be Phsyce--Lock-Tested but it was until :enguard: that I knew it.

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ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

OBJECTION!

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mario2000 wrote:
As soon as Edgeworth told Phoenix that De Killer was hired by Matt, I figured out the whole "LOL no Psyche Lock because he didn't kill him, he got someone else to do it" thing.


That was pretty much when I figured it out as well, I thought "no Psyche lock because HE didn't kill him, doesnt mean someone else didn't. But shouldnt psyche locks have come at the beginning in that case? Of course it wouldnt have been nearly as big a shock then.
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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TOUGH LOVE

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When I saw an icon somewhere that was of the real Matt. D: I am still horribly bitter about it, because the case could've been so epic if it hadn't been spoiled. That's why I'm avoided all T&T stuffs at all costs!
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I agree with grim_tales and mario2000. I figured it out when Edgeworth told me in the Hotti Clinic. Except, it was right when he told me about the Shelly card.
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I figured it out with Pearls' whole "ZOMG we better check whether he's telling the truth!" When none of the other cases do it XD
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I managed to spoil it for myself, so I knew pretty early on. That'll teach me to go looking up stuff on DeviantArt before I've finished the case!
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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mario2000 wrote:
As soon as Edgeworth told Phoenix that De Killer was hired by Matt, I figured out the whole "LOL no Psyche Lock because he didn't kill him, he got someone else to do it" thing.


This. I thought Matt was originally guilty, but then the Psyche Lock failed to make an appearance and I got confused; nevertheless, I was sure he was still involved somehow, even if not directly. It wasn't until Edgeworth brought this detail up that my suspicions were essentially confirmed. And then when I saw the "butler" at his house... gah, I wanted to beat Nick's head in with a 2x4 for being so stupid. :chinami:
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I thought Matt was the killer when you visited him after the first trial day, and not only does a huge psyche-lock appear, but when you presented Celeste's profile to him, he said 'I don't have to tell you everything and anything'. Which made me even more suspicious than I already was.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I... Honestly can't remember very well... I do know that I'm incredibly naiive so I probably didn't realize it until after breaking the Psyche Lock, and even after that I was still oblivious to a lot of things... :gymshoe:
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I had an idea when his ears perked up when you first mention De Killer. Then I knew it had to be him or De Killer when Phoenix mentioned to himself that "this is usually the time where the killer confesses their guilt".

If you're paying close attention, it really wasn't rocket science. :matt:
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I didn't notice untill he told me. >_>; I'm so stupid.
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OBJECTION!

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Riosan wrote:
I had an idea when his ears perked up when you first mention De Killer. Then I knew it had to be him or De Killer when Phoenix mentioned to himself that "this is usually the time where the killer confesses their guilt".

If you're paying close attention, it really wasn't rocket science. :matt:


I didnt notice that bit!
I thought it was suspiscious that "John Doe" looked like the bellboy in the hotel though.
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dansamol wrote:
I figured it out with Pearls' whole "ZOMG we better check whether he's telling the truth!" When none of the other cases do it XD


I was suspicious about that too :gumshoe:
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Just before Edgeworth tells you.
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Engarde's_Shoe wrote:
dansamol wrote:
I figured it out with Pearls' whole "ZOMG we better check whether he's telling the truth!" When none of the other cases do it XD


I was suspicious about that too :gumshoe:


I was suspicious at first, and it grew with more I learned in the case. I was absolutely sure by the time Edgeworth told me and Engarde only confirmed it with the confession. :odoroki:
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I only realized it when the credits started rolling. :yogi:








Err... Never mind.

I realized it when I broke Matt's Psych-Lock.
Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

Bah!

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I'd had my suspicions since the beginning, especially what with all the warning signs and whatnot. "De Killer? ZOMG TAKE MY CASE LOL." I tried to believe in him for as long as I could, mostly because everything seemed to be following the path that all the other missions did, and evidence against Adrian kept popping up. Mostly I just continued to believe in him because of the unpredicted and sometimes utterly insane endings of 2-2 and 2-3. I figured "well, anything can happen, and if he's my client then he must be innocent, because Phoenix only gets innocent clients."

Yay for case 2-4 and its ability to destroy every constant in the PW canon.
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I thought it was suspicious since the very begining in some ways it was leaning towards ms, Andrews, but then i would think that didn't make sense and then when I reached the part when matt told his secret I was like oh crap and thought this can't get any worse.
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When I saw how many psyche-locks he had.
I just knew it then.
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Re: When did you realise that... (MASSIVE case 4 spoilers)Topic%20Title

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when i frist saw him i knew that he was evil. i never trust anyone that wears a raceing jacket all the time. :enguard!:
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When they check for pyche-locks, and none show up. I think I may have actually said out loud, "OH, YOU'RE TRYIN' TO FAKE ME OUT NOW? I DON'T THINK SO, YA MURDERING MURDERER. D:<<<"

And it drove me crazy, because after that I was completely sure that he had done it. Although at that time I still though Matt was the one who killed Juan. And he'd just convinced himself that he hadn't. Or something stupid like that. The whole assassin-hiring thing kinda threw me for a loop.
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There's a reason why you couldn't ask, in the PREVIOUS cases, who did what.

Case 2-2: Morgan Fey is Pearl's mother, so even if Pearl knew she was involved, she wouldn't ask her!
Ini Miney, well, to be honest, Ini's the only one I DON'T have a solid argument for, but then again, Pearl had just met Phoenix back then.

Case 2-3: PEARL WASN'T IN THIS CASE EXCEPT THE START!!! lol..... wait, Mia wasn't either... hmm...... Anyways, if anyone asks about why Maya wouldn't ask, come on! She was surprised when Phoenix thought it was Acro, so why would she possibly assume that? Granted, for 2-3, as soon as Moe showed me the map of the circus, I knew it was Acro. Then when I saw he was in a wheelchair, only one thought came to mind:

"...... this is going to be hell in court"

And I was right. (bows) The End.
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