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T&T seemed way too similar to JFA (spoilers for both games)
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Author:  Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  T&T seemed way too similar to JFA (spoilers for both games)
Now before you yell at me and burn down my house over the fact that Trials and Tribulations was CLEARLY better than Justice For All(which I agree on), hear me out...

Oh and for your information, T&T=Trials and Tribulations, and JFA=Justice For All

Upon playing Justice For all again, I realized the similarites it had with T&T, it felt like when they made the sequel for the first Phoenix Wright game and some fans responded negatively, they made a 3rd game to satisfy the things they wanted to add while keeping the fans happy...

Trials and Tribulations did not really have anything new gameplay wise (playing as someone else does not count), Justice For All introduced Psyche-Locks, a health bar, and profile presenting, what did T&T have?

The story in T&T was definitely better and I can't deny that, the plot was just too good...

If you listen to some of the music in court, you can tell that certain kinds of music are similar for the two games.

Example: The Court Begins theme in JFA was made to sound a little menacing and terrifying, but they could not embrace that until T&T...

Objection Theme: In JFA, they went for a catchier objection theme than the first(although the first is catchy too, just less so...) T&T's objection theme was also catchy, but it sacrificed some of that for some epicness...

Cornered theme: JFA's cornered theme was going for some suspenseful feeling to it, this can sort of be reflected in ceratin parts of T&T's cornered theme...

Announce the Truth always sounds the same in any Ace Attorney game, so no comment. Cross Examination theme is obviously different....

Now onto the cases...these are just some small smilarities....

Spoiler: 2-3, and 3-5
Both of these cases have something to do with snowfall and weather data. This ends up turning the trial around a bit...


Spoiler: 2-4 and 3-5
This doesn't count but in both of these cases, you can break multiple psyche locks with one piece of evidence at some point. :gant:


Spoiler: 2-2, and 3-5
Both have something to do with Maya and the whole Kurain thing...I'm sure Justice For All wanted to elaborate on spirit channeling, but it did so with a case that was just confusing and annoying. 3-5 fixes that....


And that's all for now, if you still think I'm wrong, or don't understand any part of this, or think you have any arguments for or against this theory, then say so here...

I wrote this half tired at 1 in the morning...
Author:  GigaHand [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
Yaragorm wrote:
Now before you yell at me and burn down my house over the fact that Trials and Tribulations was CLEARLY better than Justice For All(which I agree on), hear me out...

Too late.

Yaragorm wrote:
Trials and Tribulations did not really have anything new gameplay wise (playing as someone else does not count), Justice For All introduced Psyche-Locks, a health bar, and profile presenting, what did T&T have?

I honestly didn't expect anything new.

Yaragorm wrote:
The story in T&T was definitely better and I can't deny that, the plot was just too good...

No objections here! Even though almost all of it revolved around Mia and Dahlia. (But JFA was pretty much Edgeworth, Edgeworth, Edgeworth.)

Yaragorm wrote:
If you listen to some of the music in court, you can tell that certain kinds of music are similar for the two games.

Well, in their defense, it's hard to write a song. I think.

Yaragorm wrote:
Example: The Court Begins theme in JFA was made to sound a little menacing and terrifying, but they could not embrace that until T&T...

Objection Theme: In JFA, they went for a catchier objection theme than the first(although the first is catchy too, just less so...) T&T's objection theme was also catchy, but it sacrificed some of that for some epicness...

Cornered theme: JFA's cornered theme was going for some suspenseful feeling to it, this can sort of be reflected in ceratin parts of T&T's cornered theme...

Announce the Truth always sounds the same in any Ace Attorney game, so no comment. Cross Examination theme is obviously different....

The aim for the songs is to fit the mood. It makes sense that they would sound somewhat similar.

Yaragorm wrote:
Now onto the cases...these are just some small smilarities....

Spoiler: 2-3, and 3-5
Both of these cases have something to do with snowfall and weather data. This ends up turning the trial around a bit...

Um, I don't think the weather had any significance in 2-3.

Yaragorm wrote:
Spoiler: 2-2, and 3-5
Both have something to do with Maya and the whole Kurain thing...I'm sure Justice For All wanted to elaborate on spirit channeling, but it did so with a case that was just confusing and annoying. 3-5 fixes that....

I think 3-5 was far more confusing than 2-2!
Spoiler: 3-5
And the only things we learn regarding the Feys is that Morgan had two daughters before Pearl and the location of Misty Fey.


Yaragorm wrote:
I wrote this half tired at 1 in the morning...

That explains a lot.
Author:  Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Trials and Tribulations did not really have anything new gameplay wise (playing as someone else does not count), Justice For All introduced Psyche-Locks, a health bar, and profile presenting, what did T&T have?

I honestly didn't expect anything new.


I did... :payne:

GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
If you listen to some of the music in court, you can tell that certain kinds of music are similar for the two games.

Well, in their defense, it's hard to write a song. I think.


Yes, but to me they seemed way too similar...

GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Example: The Court Begins theme in JFA was made to sound a little menacing and terrifying, but they could not embrace that until T&T...

Objection Theme: In JFA, they went for a catchier objection theme than the first(although the first is catchy too, just less so...) T&T's objection theme was also catchy, but it sacrificed some of that for some epicness...

Cornered theme: JFA's cornered theme was going for some suspenseful feeling to it, this can sort of be reflected in ceratin parts of T&T's cornered theme...

Announce the Truth always sounds the same in any Ace Attorney game, so no comment. Cross Examination theme is obviously different....

The aim for the songs is to fit the mood. It makes sense that they would sound somewhat similar.


Which means they had the same mood to fit into?




I think 2-2 was confusing because of all the fact that Maya shouldn't be arrested in the first place....
Author:  GigaHand [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
Yaragorm wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Trials and Tribulations did not really have anything new gameplay wise (playing as someone else does not count), Justice For All introduced Psyche-Locks, a health bar, and profile presenting, what did T&T have?

I honestly didn't expect anything new.


I did... :payne:

GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
If you listen to some of the music in court, you can tell that certain kinds of music are similar for the two games.

Well, in their defense, it's hard to write a song. I think.


Yes, but to me they seemed way too similar...

Sounds to me like this is going to be a clash of opinions. I suppose I'm not going to change your mind.

Yaragorm wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Example: The Court Begins theme in JFA was made to sound a little menacing and terrifying, but they could not embrace that until T&T...

Objection Theme: In JFA, they went for a catchier objection theme than the first(although the first is catchy too, just less so...) T&T's objection theme was also catchy, but it sacrificed some of that for some epicness...

Cornered theme: JFA's cornered theme was going for some suspenseful feeling to it, this can sort of be reflected in ceratin parts of T&T's cornered theme...

Announce the Truth always sounds the same in any Ace Attorney game, so no comment. Cross Examination theme is obviously different....

The aim for the songs is to fit the mood. It makes sense that they would sound somewhat similar.


Which means they had the same mood to fit into?


... Yes.

Yaragorm wrote:
I think 2-2 was confusing because of all the fact that Maya shouldn't be arrested in the first place....

His Honor said in 3-5 that no court would accept spirit channeling (or something along those lines).
Author:  Ping' [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
T&T was like the third book of a trilogy. It didn't need any new gimmicks ; it only had to be a satisfying conclusion to the Phoenix Wright arc.
And apart from the gameplay / graphics, you certainly can't fault the T&T for lack of creativity: the plot, pacing, characters, dialogue, and overall level of emotional intensity were all vastly superior to its predecessor's, however good it was.
Author:  Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
Ping' wrote:
T&T was like the third book of a trilogy. It didn't need any new gimmicks ; it only had to be a satisfying conclusion to the Phoenix Wright arc.
And apart from the gameplay / graphics, you certainly can't fault the T&T for lack of creativity: the plot, pacing, characters, dialogue, and overall level of emotional intensity were all vastly superior to its predecessor's, however good it was.


Yeah I guess I can't....but as I keep saying, I did sorta feel cheated off when there was nothing new which I got over pretty quickly....
Author:  Hikari [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
Uh, no. Same features, yeah. Similar music, yeah. But revamped version? NO.
To say 'Revamped' implies that it was the SAME GAME, with newer, better graphics, maybe an extra case like 1-5, and new features. But T&T, as you stated, has no new features. It has the same graphical quality as JFA. It is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME, set after JFA in the timeline, with new cases and character development, and it is essentially a conclusion to the Phoenix Wright trilogy.
I also thought that the T&T music was most similar to GS1 music :payne: Anyway, music doesn't prove your point. If all the games had the same music you wouldn't consider them 'revamped' versions of each other. Plus each game had a different composer.
Author:  Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Was T&T just a revamped version of JFA? (spoilers for both)
Hikari wrote:
Uh, no. Same features, yeah. Similar music, yeah. But revamped version? NO.
To say 'Revamped' implies that it was the SAME GAME, with newer, better graphics, maybe an extra case like 1-5, and new features. But T&T, as you stated, has no new features. It has the same graphical quality as JFA. It is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME, set after JFA in the timeline, with new cases and character development, and it is essentially a conclusion to the Phoenix Wright trilogy.
I also thought that the T&T music was most similar to GS1 music :payne: Anyway, music doesn't prove your point. If all the games had the same music you wouldn't consider them 'revamped' versions of each other. Plus each game had a different composer.


They did? :beef:
Author:  Ping' [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: T&T seemed way too similar to JFA (spoilers for both games)
Yeah.
Masakazu Sugimori for the first, Akemi Kimura for the second, Noriyuki Iwadare for the third.
Author:  Yaragorm [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: T&T seemed way too similar to JFA (spoilers for both games)
You know what? I was practically drunk when writing this so I think it's not even worthwhile.... someone please delete this topic.....
Author:  Sebastian Stark [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T&T seemed way too similar to JFA (spoilers for both games)
Added point - The game WAS originally for the GBA way back in 2004...so the addition of new features was definately way more limited for the developers.
Personally, playing as other Attorneys during the game more than made up for a lack of anything 'new' - just because a game is a sequal, doesn't mean it always needs something extra.

Just my thoughts on an otherwise dead topic! 8D
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