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Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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WallofIllusion wrote:
I think I know which picture you're referring to, but that picture was also black-and-white/sepia, so it may have just been a very dark red. You beat me to the punch, Bad Player.
Though it'd make more sense for them to have the same hair color, I'd be inclined to think of Dahlia's as naturally red just because
Spoiler: 3-5
when you exorcise her from Maya, the spirit that goes off screaming has red hair.


That's true, but I think it was representing more of who she was in her life. It wouldn't have made much sense if she had black hair. Would only be confusing IMO. Like, for example, her hair is in the same style, which makes sense... But you know.

Plus what tenderlender says. It makes sense. There's a piece of fan art (well it's not official so it doesn't exactly back up this claim) where Dahlia is giving a makeover to Iris to allow her to pose as her, and her hair is dyed red.
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I think she dyed it as that bright red is very unnatural. Maybe she wanted to look different from Iris, or not to make people think of The Black Dahlia.

As Dollie does like to keep up the impression she is sweet and innocent. :delilah-hair:
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I think I can explain this one.
Dahlia's hair isdyed red. As for why it appears light in the sepia flashback with Terry and Valerie, notice that Iris and by proxy Dahlia's hair is a very light shade of black, being almost grey. Valerie's hair is a dark shade of black. As for her spirit's hair being red? Symbolism. Dahlia's red hair is somewhat iconic to her character, discounting her parasol and butterflies. I'm to assume Dahlia dyed it after the Dusky Bridge incident.
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Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Shadow Magician wrote:
I think I can explain this one.
Dahlia's hair isdyed red. As for why it appears light in the sepia flashback with Terry and Valerie, notice that Iris and by proxy Dahlia's hair is a very light shade of black, being almost grey. Valerie's hair is a dark shade of black. As for her spirit's hair being red? Symbolism. Dahlia's red hair is somewhat iconic to her character, discounting her parasol and butterflies. I'm to assume Dahlia dyed it after the Dusky Bridge incident.



Even better explanation for her spirit having red hair: Ace Attorney is set in the same Universe as Ghost Trick. Ghost Trick explicitely states that Spirits take the form they see themselves as, independantly of what their physical body actually looked like.
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Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I think Dahlia's spirit's red hair is more an artistic thing - just to prove that yes, indeed, it is Dahlia. If the Iris standing on the witness stand had had a same-hairstyled spirit with black hair rushing out of her, it could be understood that we think it's the real Iris.

Although I'm sure Dahlia's red hair is dyed. As it's mentioned previously, it's a very, very bright and intense shade of red. I have seen it on RL people before and it was always dyed. Badly dyed, actually, as it's almost painful to look at.

C-A
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
Alright, while this topic is very old, I feel that there is one glaring contradiction related to hair color that must be brought to light. It all boils down to this: There is no way that Dahlia thought that Pearl Fey was channeling her when she went up on the witness stand on the third day of the trial.

First off, let's establish the rules of spirit channeling. When a medium channels a spirit, their physical appearance changes entirely to match the spirit's, with the exception of clothing, hair color and hair style, which is that of the medium. This is evidenced by both Maya's and Pearl's channeling of Mia. I also have to bring up the instance of Maya "channeling" Mimi Miney, because, while I do realize that it was just a person in a costume, that person was in cahoots with someone who knew exactly what Maya would look like had she channeled that spirit. Mimi channeling or not, we've got our evidence.

Apparently, those rules don't apply to Dahlia. As evidenced by what she said in case 3-5, she had to pin up her hair to look like Misty Fey after Misty had channeled her, clearly implying that the medium's hair style doesn't carry over when channeling Dahlia (for some reason). This is further (albeit less concretely) supported by Maya having Dahlia's hair style when channeling her (less concrete because Dahlia would have had plenty of time to alter her hair style). However, the medium's hair color clearly does carry over when channeling Dahlia. So, Dahlia's a special case. We're all good so far.

Now we get to the contradiction. Dahlia (who knew that she had red hair in life) thought that she was being channeled by Pearl (who has brown hair), even though she saw that she had black hair. That just makes no sense whatsoever. She never thought, "Wow, awfully convenient that I can now perfectly impersonate my twin sister, who's hair color wasn't mine nor the person whom I believe is channeling me." Not only that, but this was on the heels of being channeled by Misty Fey, who also had black hair and who's black hair carried over into the channeling. And Dahlia didn't just not notice it; as stated above, she had to alter her own hair to resemble that of Misty's. Hard to do that and not notice the color of your own hair. And she didn't just not notice her hair color after being channeled by Maya, either; she wouldn't have even attempted to impersonate Iris if she wasn't sure she could pull it off.

Perhaps the answer lies in the question of who was dying their hair when and if dye carries over into spiritual appearance. But from what I can see, Dahlia was a blithering moron for thinking that it Pearl was who was channeling her.
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Superfield wrote:
Spoiler:
Alright, while this topic is very old, I feel that there is one glaring contradiction related to hair color that must be brought to light. It all boils down to this: There is no way that Dahlia thought that Pearl Fey was channeling her when she went up on the witness stand on the third day of the trial.

First off, let's establish the rules of spirit channeling. When a medium channels a spirit, their physical appearance changes entirely to match the spirit's, with the exception of clothing, hair color and hair style, which is that of the medium. This is evidenced by both Maya's and Pearl's channeling of Mia. I also have to bring up the instance of Maya "channeling" Mimi Miney, because, while I do realize that it was just a person in a costume, that person was in cahoots with someone who knew exactly what Maya would look like had she channeled that spirit. Mimi channeling or not, we've got our evidence.

Apparently, those rules don't apply to Dahlia. As evidenced by what she said in case 3-5, she had to pin up her hair to look like Misty Fey after Misty had channeled her, clearly implying that the medium's hair style doesn't carry over when channeling Dahlia (for some reason). This is further (albeit less concretely) supported by Maya having Dahlia's hair style when channeling her (less concrete because Dahlia would have had plenty of time to alter her hair style). However, the medium's hair color clearly does carry over when channeling Dahlia. So, Dahlia's a special case. We're all good so far.

Now we get to the contradiction. Dahlia (who knew that she had red hair in life) thought that she was being channeled by Pearl (who has brown hair), even though she saw that she had black hair. That just makes no sense whatsoever. She never thought, "Wow, awfully convenient that I can now perfectly impersonate my twin sister, who's hair color wasn't mine nor the person whom I believe is channeling me." Not only that, but this was on the heels of being channeled by Misty Fey, who also had black hair and who's black hair carried over into the channeling. And Dahlia didn't just not notice it; as stated above, she had to alter her own hair to resemble that of Misty's. Hard to do that and not notice the color of your own hair. And she didn't just not notice her hair color after being channeled by Maya, either; she wouldn't have even attempted to impersonate Iris if she wasn't sure she could pull it off.

Perhaps the answer lies in the question of who was dying their hair when and if dye carries over into spiritual appearance. But from what I can see, Dahlia was a blithering moron for thinking that it Pearl was who was channeling her.


You seem to forget something.
Did Dahlia ever know what Pearl looked like? Morgan told her that her half-sister Pearl was going to channel her, but I doubt Morgan told Dahlia what Pearl looked like. And given how Iris - and probably Dahlia - as well as Morgan have black hair, along with Maya and Misty, it is possible that Dahlia simply assumed that Pearl would also have black hair. From the seven Fey Clan people we have met throughout the story, five had black hair so it's easy to assume that somebody closely related to them could also have a high chance of black hair.
Granted, hair color is harder to determine than eye color in terms of genes, but still.

For another, if you look at Mia being channeled by Maya and Pearl, you notice that their hair technically doesn't change. The only thing that really changes are the bangs, the entire hairstyle doesn't change - Pearl retains her rings and Maya retains the topknot along with the hair accessories and how she holds her hair together at the bottom. So it's likely that when Misty channeled Dahlia, Dahlia awoke with long black hair and simply tied it up to look like her sister.

I retain my idea that Dahlia has dyed her hair red and that her spirit only had red hair to be artistic, so as to not suddenly make her spirit have her natural black hair and some player might think that it's Iris whose spirit is suddenly disappearing.

Neither haircolor nor hairstyle carry over when channeling. Dahlia simply assumed that Pearl had dark hair and went with it. She didn't care who channeled her after the original host body died, she simply saw black hair and figured she was still being channeled by a darkhaired medium and that's it.

C-A
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title

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CatMuto wrote:
Superfield wrote:
Spoiler:
Alright, while this topic is very old, I feel that there is one glaring contradiction related to hair color that must be brought to light. It all boils down to this: There is no way that Dahlia thought that Pearl Fey was channeling her when she went up on the witness stand on the third day of the trial.

First off, let's establish the rules of spirit channeling. When a medium channels a spirit, their physical appearance changes entirely to match the spirit's, with the exception of clothing, hair color and hair style, which is that of the medium. This is evidenced by both Maya's and Pearl's channeling of Mia. I also have to bring up the instance of Maya "channeling" Mimi Miney, because, while I do realize that it was just a person in a costume, that person was in cahoots with someone who knew exactly what Maya would look like had she channeled that spirit. Mimi channeling or not, we've got our evidence.

Apparently, those rules don't apply to Dahlia. As evidenced by what she said in case 3-5, she had to pin up her hair to look like Misty Fey after Misty had channeled her, clearly implying that the medium's hair style doesn't carry over when channeling Dahlia (for some reason). This is further (albeit less concretely) supported by Maya having Dahlia's hair style when channeling her (less concrete because Dahlia would have had plenty of time to alter her hair style). However, the medium's hair color clearly does carry over when channeling Dahlia. So, Dahlia's a special case. We're all good so far.

Now we get to the contradiction. Dahlia (who knew that she had red hair in life) thought that she was being channeled by Pearl (who has brown hair), even though she saw that she had black hair. That just makes no sense whatsoever. She never thought, "Wow, awfully convenient that I can now perfectly impersonate my twin sister, who's hair color wasn't mine nor the person whom I believe is channeling me." Not only that, but this was on the heels of being channeled by Misty Fey, who also had black hair and who's black hair carried over into the channeling. And Dahlia didn't just not notice it; as stated above, she had to alter her own hair to resemble that of Misty's. Hard to do that and not notice the color of your own hair. And she didn't just not notice her hair color after being channeled by Maya, either; she wouldn't have even attempted to impersonate Iris if she wasn't sure she could pull it off.

Perhaps the answer lies in the question of who was dying their hair when and if dye carries over into spiritual appearance. But from what I can see, Dahlia was a blithering moron for thinking that it Pearl was who was channeling her.


You seem to forget something.
Did Dahlia ever know what Pearl looked like? Morgan told her that her half-sister Pearl was going to channel her, but I doubt Morgan told Dahlia what Pearl looked like. And given how Iris - and probably Dahlia - as well as Morgan have black hair, along with Maya and Misty, it is possible that Dahlia simply assumed that Pearl would also have black hair. From the seven Fey Clan people we have met throughout the story, five had black hair so it's easy to assume that somebody closely related to them could also have a high chance of black hair.
Granted, hair color is harder to determine than eye color in terms of genes, but still.

For another, if you look at Mia being channeled by Maya and Pearl, you notice that their hair technically doesn't change. The only thing that really changes are the bangs, the entire hairstyle doesn't change - Pearl retains her rings and Maya retains the topknot along with the hair accessories and how she holds her hair together at the bottom. So it's likely that when Misty channeled Dahlia, Dahlia awoke with long black hair and simply tied it up to look like her sister.

I retain my idea that Dahlia has dyed her hair red and that her spirit only had red hair to be artistic, so as to not suddenly make her spirit have her natural black hair and some player might think that it's Iris whose spirit is suddenly disappearing.

Neither haircolor nor hairstyle carry over when channeling. Dahlia simply assumed that Pearl had dark hair and went with it. She didn't care who channeled her after the original host body died, she simply saw black hair and figured she was still being channeled by a darkhaired medium and that's it.

C-A


In regards to Dahlia not knowing what Pearl looked like, I suppose that is possible, although I would think that Morgan would have at least shown her a picture of Pearl, both her pride and joy and a key player in the plan. But, as I have no evidence, that point stands.

You misunderstood me in relation to the hair style. I was saying that, when channeling a spirit, the majority of a spirit medium's body does change, however, their hair style doesn't. However, my point in bringing it up in the first place was that this is apparently not the case when channeling Dahlia, although after taking another look at the dialogue, it seems I made a mistake. I thought that, after Misty successfully channeled Dahlia, she had to pin her hair up in order to resemble Misty. I now realize that she had to alter her hair in order to resemble Iris so she could fool Sister Bikini. That combined with the distinct possibility that she altered her hair again when Maya channeled her leads me to believe that Dahlia isn't a special case after all; a spirit medium still retains her hair style when channeling her, just like any other spirit.

However, this does bring up another question. If Dahlia isn't the special case I previously thought she was, then that means that she still had the topknot when Maya channeled her, something that she would have had to have undone in order to have her hair resemble that of Iris. I think that that would have been more of a tip-off as to who was channeling her more than the hair color would have. Then again, it might go back to the first point you made; it's possible she had no idea what Pearl looked like, and I can't think of a specific instance where Dahlia would have known what Maya looked like, so... I don't know, I guess I just got thrown off by the fact that Dahlia kept her hairstyle when being channeled when that had never happened before. Guess it all made sense in the end...
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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If Dahlia isn't the special case I previously thought she was, then that means that she still had the topknot when Maya channeled her, something that she would have had to have undone in order to have her hair resemble that of Iris.


Well it could be that, when Mia gave Maya the note to channel Dahlia as soon as possible, perhaps Maya took the time to pin her hair up. Or it could be that during that short fight in the garden, her hair got loose. Supposedly Maya was wearing/gonna wear the Acolyte clothes that Iris, Misty and Bikini wear, so the clothes was no problem. If she was already wearing the Acolyte clothes, it's possible that she opened her hair - a freezing weight of waterfall going on your head, and her hair having the topknot, is not very comfortable.

Actually, this just gave me a Cough Up...

C-A
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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... A two-month-old thread isn't that terribly old, is it?

Superfield wrote:
In regards to Dahlia not knowing what Pearl looked like, I suppose that is possible, although I would think that Morgan would have at least shown her a picture of Pearl, both her pride and joy and a key player in the plan. But, as I have no evidence, that point stands.


Actually, I'd think she purposely wouldn't show Dahlia a picture of Pearl. Excuse my likely terrible logic, but if Morgan already knew Dahlia was in prison, by Mia's doing, no less, then wouldn't she be at least a bit wary of letting her anywhere near Pearl when she's not being channeled? I mean... she had to know Dahlia was in prison for a reason, y'know...


At any rate, I vote Dahlia's (and Iris') natural hair color was neither black nor red. I say it was brown, like Pearl's and Mia's.

I'm taking this from another angle, here. It was already implied that Dahlia and Iris are identical twins, so it's safe to assume they share a hair color. It's impossible for Iris to not have dyed her hair at least once; like others have noted, Phoenix wasn't so terribly oblivious that he wouldn't have noticed a drastic change in hair color from when they first meet, to while they are dating, to the day of State vs. Wright. Iris, therefore, had to have dyed her hair at some point in time, or else the change in hair color would have been pointed out. Not to mention, this. Did anyone notice that Dahlia's hair during the grayscale flashback is roughly the same shade, if not darker than, Iris' hair in the grayscale photo in Oh!Cult!? I'd imagine that implies her hair is still red in the picture (heck, that's how I first imagined it).

So, at least one of Iris' hair colors is fake. So which is it? As others have already mentioned, Dahlia does have a motive to dye her hair: the fake kidnapping/death. In order to become Melissa Foster, she may have dyed her hair red to eliminate as many connections between the old persona and the new one as possible, short of plastic surgery. But, frankly, hair dye fades. Sooner or later she would have had to re-dye it. Iris, therefore, may have had to re-dye her hair as well, while dating Phoenix. Yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, Phoenix is surprised to see Dahlia's face with black hair. That implies that Iris' hair was never black while they dated; if nothing else, the roots certainly weren't. So, either Iris' hair color is not black, or she went far enough to dye her hair down to the roots: something I rather doubt since it may have permanently affected her hair color (again, correct me if I'm wrong on that; no dye experience here) and therefore would have upset Bikini. Whoops. That was a mistake. But still...

I don't think Dahlia's real color is red. It could be, but I don't think so. Red hair is fairly recessive; while it's been found to be dominant over blonde, it's still recessive to black and brown hair. Morgan has black hair. Forgive me if I reject the idea that Iris and Dahlia miraculously sprouted vermilion hair from at least one black-haired parent, anime or not.

I don't think it's black, either, simply because... uh... let me get back to you on that in the morning :oops:

So, if their hair is neither black nor red, what is it? Well, what other hair color have we seen in Feys? Brown. Take that!

It also helps that brown is basically a really dark red, if color theory and mistakes with watercolors tell me anything, therefore explaining the red-haired ghost: Dahlia's hair was just illuminated by spirit power. My hair changes color with the light, too, y'know!

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Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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CatMuto wrote:
Although I'm sure Dahlia's red hair is dyed. As it's mentioned previously, it's a very, very bright and intense shade of red.


Why does it have to be dyed, exactly? After all, the Ace Attorney series is done in an anime style and, as I'm sure you are aware, anime characters can have any hair colour imaginable.
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Although I'm sure Dahlia's red hair is dyed. As it's mentioned previously, it's a very, very bright and intense shade of red.


Why does it have to be dyed, exactly? After all, the Ace Attorney series is done in an anime style and, as I'm sure you are aware, anime characters can have any hair colour imaginable.


Yes because Anime Style excuses everything, of course.

You're saying this on a thread where people are wondering why a character's real hair color is because her spirit had bright red hair. You're basically using an Anime excuse for something that is technically an Anime Artistic Thing on a thread where people are trying to figure out a realistic reason for it.

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Although I'm sure Dahlia's red hair is dyed. As it's mentioned previously, it's a very, very bright and intense shade of red.


Why does it have to be dyed, exactly? After all, the Ace Attorney series is done in an anime style and, as I'm sure you are aware, anime characters can have any hair colour imaginable.


Yes because Anime Style excuses everything, of course.

You're saying this on a thread where people are wondering why a character's real hair color is because her spirit had bright red hair. You're basically using an Anime excuse for something that is technically an Anime Artistic Thing on a thread where people are trying to figure out a realistic reason for it.

C-A


I think I have to agree with CatMuto here. I always thought she dyed it.
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
I think I have to agree with CatMuto here. I always thought she dyed it.


I'll have to agree with the Dyed it as well.
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As Dahlia and Iris are identical twins and Iris pretended to be Dahlia for a long time I'd think it's more likely that she dyed it. Either that or it's symbolic, to set them apart and/or reflect Dahlia's personality.
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I've read somewhere (I think it was on the Ace Attorney Wikia) that Dahlia's hair is actually black, like her twin's and in order to tell who's who, she dyed her hair red.
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It is confirmed that Dahlia dyed her hair red. Both Iris and Dahlia had black hair and Dahlia dyed hers red while Iris remained black haired.
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Where was it confirmed, by the way?
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I think she dyed it, too. Either to not to be confused with Iris or to hide from her crimes. Or both.
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Isn't it true that sometimes there is a mutation in family genes and the child could be born with different traits?

Maybe :that-b-word: was supposed to be born with black hair,since :iris: and her are twins,but the mutation caused her to have red hair?

Or am I terrible at genetics? :sadshoe:
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OBJECTION. It's perfectly possible for neither Iris nor Dahlia to have died their hair.

Usually, identical twins are born with the same hair colour as they are made from the exact same genetic material. However, red hair is different. Red/ginger hair can be caused by the mutation known as MC1R. So that could be why Dahlia's hair is ginger.

But surely, if Dahlia got the mutation for red hair, Iris would have got it too?

Wrong. Genetic mutations happen when the embryo splits itself incorrectly in the womb. Identical twins come from the same egg and and the same sperm, but genetic mutation happens AFTER the fertilised egg begins to split. This means that the half that became Dahlia could have mutated to have the MC1R gene, giving her red hair, but not the half that became Iris, leaving Iris the black hair gene that both girls originally inherited.
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I always figured that either they really did have different hair colours, or that Dahlia was the one who dyed hers.

Dahlia was the one who lived a life of crime and needed to keep her identity a secret. While hair colour isn't the only factor needed to be unrecognizable, it at least helped her keep hidden. Iris, on the other hand, never needed to change her identity (The only time she did was when she disguised as her sister). Furthermore, Dahlia lived in the city and had much easier access to hair dye products, whereas Iris would have had to travel to the city each time she wanted to touch up her hair (And take it from me, red dye fades away fast.) so it really wouldn't have been worth the trouble. That is, unless she absolutely needed to keep dyeing her hair. But if anybody needed to do that, again, it would have been Dahlia.

It just makes more sense to me that Dahlia would have been the one to have dyed her hair red. Either that, or they just happen to naturally have different hair colours, given Franziska Belduke's post right above mine.

As for whether or not Iris dyed her hair red when she was with Phoenix, I'm going to say yes, given this piece of official artwork: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/9/91/Happy_Couples.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140524153009 Those few months where she was dating Nick (and had easy access to dye in the city) were probably the only time she bothered with her hair.
I... feel foolish.

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Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Nado13579 wrote:
(And take it from me, red dye fades away fast.)

Wait, in your hypothetical example, if Iris is the one always dyeing her hair, the natural hair would be red and she'd have to dye it black
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Last edited by Nurio on Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dahlia's real hair color? (Semi-spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Whoops, my brain farted. Ignore what I said right there about red dye fading fast. However, constantly dyeing her hair black (even just the roots) would still be troublesome for Iris when she's so far away from the city and doesn't have any real reason to dye it in the first place. My point still stands that if anyone were to dye their hair, it would be Dahlia. She was the one who hid her identity and had easy access to hair dye products.

Either that, or they were naturally born with their different hair colours given the genetic mutation explanation. I could go either way.
I... feel foolish.

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