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Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Look, I know this sounds like a stupid question considering Godot has never won a case (at least not against Phoenix during T&T), but you got to keep in mind that Phoenix is one crazy ass defense attorney who has beaten three prosecutors with perfect records.

Honestly, I thought Godot was damn good prosecutor. He was so cool and collected throughout the hearings and had a great counter arguments as well as his flare for dramatics. I honestly think he was my favorite of the series. :godot:
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Where are you getting "great counter arguments" from?

Phoenix: ...And that is why my client is innocent!
Godot: Oh yeah? Prove it.
Phoenix: You see...
Godot: Oh yeah? Prove it.
Phoenix: And therefore...
Godot: Oh yeah? Prove it.
Phoenix: (Does this guy have any other arguments up his sleeve?)

Yes yes, I know a lot of prosecutors play the proof card, but I'm not kidding when I say the proof card is the only card in Godot's deck.

Apart from that I hate him as a character [I found his whole thing with the "Trite" business very childish and I hated him even more when he spilled the reason why] and he's #2 on my worst prosecutor list [#1 being german rock star]
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O-B-J-E-C-T-I-O-N!!

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I too think that Godot was pretty lousy and uninventive as far as prosecutors go. Remember, his sole purpose was to measure up Phoenix in court. So, his one-trick pony of constantly asking for proof was to back Phoenix into corners constantly, making sure Nick had done his homework. Overall, Godot used very simple arguments most of the time and eventually just goes back to the same earlier flawed arguments when Phoenix gets on a roll. There is never any sense of a trap or awe like when facing Edgeworth or even Franciska von Karma. Godot had completely alterior motives for being a prosecutor. The only thing I wonder is how he built up his fake rep of being an amazing prosecutor even though he had never done a case before.
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Uh...wow.

And up until now I thought I was the only person in the world who hated Godot.
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Mew~ :3

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HOW CAN YOU HATE GODOT?! Until now, I thought everyone loved the cool and collected badass prosecutor. Unlike some people, I think Godot is the best for not only, his cool and collected badass personality, but for one other thing:
COFFEE GRANADES! :coffee: :Godot-object:
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He's not as competent as Edgeworth, but he's charismatic and therefore convincing - you can't help but listen to what he has to say. Godot is probably the only prosecutor who relies on emotion more than pure logic to get his points across, and does it pretty well in my opinion. You can perfectly see how he's able to play with Phoenix's insecurities, for instance. I believe he even says at one point that Godot is the "most formidable opponent" he's ever faced.
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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I think Phoenix forgot about the time he went toe to toe with Manfred von Karma.
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BBdoubleB wrote:
I think Phoenix forgot about the time he went toe to toe with Manfred von Karma.

Truth be told, I actually find von Karma easier. You see, it's obvious when von Karma doesn't wan't something said. With Godot, you're never truly sure.
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Ping' wrote:
I believe he even says at one point that Godot is the "most formidable opponent" he's ever faced.

That's one thing I hated about Godot; the way everyone kept saying he was so good and so cool and etc. etc. when he really wasn't. At all.

BB and meb did a pretty good job of summing up Godot's prosecuting 'skills.' Basically, he just used the prosecutor's advantage to force his lousy points and metaphorical bullshit to confuse the judge into taking his side. (Wow, you confused the JUDGE! Good work, Armando, not everyone can pull that off!)

In 3-2, when you're trying to break Atmey about Bullard's murder, Godot just goes "Whoop, looks like you're getting somewhere with this so no more testimony for you!" and since it's coming from the prosecution, the judge goes along with it.
In 3-3, when you point out the HMD contradiction in Armstrong's testimony, Godot just says "Oh, well, Kudo meant it was on the right side" and it's accepted at that. Then when you do break Armstrong, Godot is sure to make it clear he's 'probably' lying. (I love how the prosecution can just decide a witness is wrong whenever they feel like it while you always have to back it up with, uh, proof. :yuusaku: )
In 3-5... Actually, do I even need to say anything here?

tl;dr No, Godot is not a good prosecutor. Klavier may get a lot of flack for being 'boring', but at least he used good arguments to counter the defense's position most of the time.
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Didn't Phoenix beat more than three with perfect records?O_o

Payne, Edgeworth, Manfred, and Franziska? And Godot himself, if you want to get technical...>_>
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
Didn't Phoenix beat more than three with perfect records?O_o

Payne,


Nah, Mia beat him first. Besides, Godot is awesome, the only prosecutor to deviate fromt eh case to drink coffee, thereby confusing even the defense and winnign through circular logic, speculation, lying and generally havign an awesome theme tune. He could probably get defendants declared guilty just by staring at them while drinking 17 cups of coffee in a row.

Therefore, if we're beign realistic, he isn't a good prosecutor, but he's an awesome one.
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Hylian100 wrote:
Therefore, if we're beign realistic, he isn't a good prosecutor, but he's an awesome one.


This. :godot:
Blah~
Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title

Waiting on Godot...

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I don't really care if he was a good prosecutor or not. That's wasn't his role in the game. As it was said earlier- he only wanted to size up Phoenix and see what kind of man he was for 'what he did'. Someone to vent anger against.

Someone like him was too emotional to be a prosecutor, but he fought SO hard to get to where he was. For me, his tragedy is what makes it for me. Not his prosecuting. I mean, really- Edgeworth for me flopped as a character, cause aside from being dead sexy and awesome in court, he really didn't interest me at all with his moping around. Godot was passionate, fiery, romantic, and it came out EVERYWHERE in his character.

His character wasn't mean to be a prosecutor. He was meant to be a lawyer. Like Phoenix. His tragedy is that his heart has been torn so badly that he couldn't defend a man till it was mended once more. He had story. The rest don't really matter- unless Phoenix Wright has to be difficult to play for it to be enjoyable for you. I personally play and love the Phoenix Wright series cause of the characters and storylines. The court battles are a challenge to me- not the be all end all.
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I didn't like his character either. I thought he was a cocky, hypocritical, sexist prick who had no problem blaming and sacrificing everyone but himself for something nobody could have really prevented anyway.

But that's just me.
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nuuuuu, stoooooop

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BBdoubleB wrote:
Uh...wow.

And up until now I thought I was the only person in the world who hated Godot.


Clearly you haven't been on CR long enough! *cough*itsownerhatesgodot*cough*

I don't think Godot was a good prosecutor, but then, neither were any of the others. The fact that they suck at their job is the whole point! You can blame Gumshoe (and Ema) for not being able to find and deliver all the right evidence, but in the end it's the prosecutor that argues the case, and the game demands that they be wrong. Therefore it's hard to rank the prosecutors against each other in terms of skill.

Still, I think Godot shows his "skill" pretty well in 3-3.

Spoiler: 3-3
The second day of trial, Godot presented the mirror to fight off the contradictions left over from day one. Not only does the mirror NOT explain the contradiction, there is no proof that it was even in the store at the time. Phoenix proves him wrong easily and then for the entire rest of the trial Godot has nothing to present and no alternative theories to offer. BB's right - it's just "Prove it!" until the end. Did he even attempt to investigate the case?

Not to mention that it's implied he knew Tigre was not really Phoenix during the first trial, but did nothing to interfere. He obviously doesn't care about law at the point in which we see him in the game. Sure you can blame that on his revenge plot obsession, but since we never see Godot act as a prosecutor "normally" we have no idea how well he would do if he put real effort into it.


None of that has anything to do with whether or not he's a good *character* but that's a debate for another time.
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As a prosecutor Godot sucks, but as a cool, calm, and collected fellow his attitude is PURE AWESOME.
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
I didn't like his character either. I thought he was a cocky, hypocritical, sexist prick who had no problem blaming and sacrificing everyone but himself for something nobody could have really prevented anyway.

But that's just me.



I was going to go on a huge long rant about why I hate Godot as a character equally as much as I do as a prosecutor, but you pretty much summed it up.
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I always thought Godot made a good foil for Phoenix and made him actually work things out, not so much just 'beat' Godot but get to the truth of the matter. He seem to give due where due was needed, why? prove it? simple questions and arguments but fundamental, the basics of it might be something which was missing for most of the other trials, too far flung into tricks and cleverly organised witnesses to get away from the whole 'why' questions.

I am sure I read and commented on a post complaining about motives not being used a lot, I think Godot used them for his cases, trying to give motive to why someone was killed by the defendant. I might be wrong of course, my short-term memory is shot and as I'm playing T&T now... whatcha' gonna do?

I think the higher ups in the Prosecutors Office know Godots true history and the whole 'being great' is not so much as a prosecutor but his past life experience.

Fundamentally, Godot is a character much like his own coffee, dark and bitter as well as likely very hurt.

AHAHA, EDIT! I am doing the very thing which gets my essays marked down, going off topic. I can not say if he is a good prosecutor as what makes a 'good prosecutor' seems subjective. To destroy the defence? Nope, not good. To get through the crap and work with the defence to get to the truth then yes, I think he does that better than past prosecutors.
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This reminds me of a thing we did at school.
Was King John a Good King or a Bad King?
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Godot did a good job at wanting to find the truth? How the crap so? Anything he knew, he hid, such as the fake Phoenix.

If you're referring to how he turned against Tigre at the end of the case...well, what else could he do? Tigre put the gun on himself, and nothing Godot could say was going to change that.
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BBdoubleB wrote:
Godot did a good job at wanting to find the truth? How the crap so? Anything he knew, he hid, such as the fake Phoenix.

If you're referring to how he turned against Tigre at the end of the case...well, what else could he do? Tigre put the gun on himself, and nothing Godot could say was going to change that.


Potty mouth aside..... :zenitora:

Spoiler:
He did not prosecute that case. Also, by not turning in that 'fake' he ended up making others work out why there was a fake to start with and made Phoenix work harder to uncover the truth and squirm a bit as well, which frankly who wouldn't make someone you hate sweat buckets? Plus last but not least, he may not known, he might just been acting cool by saying he knew.

As a person, sure he was selfish and single minded in many cases, see the end case for a clear example. His whole vendetta was single-minded, childish and not wholly thought out but neither is the Von Karma perfection rubbish. I like the idea Gumshoe holds that prosecutors(Edgeworth) trust the police enough to arrest the right man that they can spend all their time proving the arrested person's guilt (idealistic but oh well, it is sweet)

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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
I didn't like his character either. I thought he was a cocky, hypocritical, sexist prick who had no problem blaming and sacrificing everyone but himself for something nobody could have really prevented anyway.

But that's just me.


I disagree. I say that's whjat makes him awesome. He's a prick, but he's an awesome prick. You need an wesome prick sometime, Edgeworth's just too frilly. :godot:

No offense to edgeworth, though.
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I'm going to have to agree with the majority of the people here. As a prosecutor, Godot was kind of weak.
But he had something that most of the prosecutors in the games don't have; a really good backstory. Seriously, everyone else's seems really boring compared to his, at least for me. His constant ranting about it got on my nerves a little at the end of case 5, though...
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Good 'til the last drop.

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He's the second best prosecutor ever!
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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and the plot thickens

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personally i thought godot was the second best prosecutor in the game (miles being first ) i thought his arguments were pretty logical he was able to keep his emotions cool (well other than throwing cofe at us) and he stumped me quite a few times. Nw you must think that there prosecuting skills are toned down quite a bit because this is a video game but i believe if this was real life godot would be a very good prosecutor
Spoiler:
however i personally think he would make a much better defense lawyer cause of his tactics and cool attitude


this is my rank of best to worst prosecutor

1- :edgy: (probaly the best overall balance of skill defently a tough opponent)
2- :godot: (got by a little bit more on whim and emotion but otherwhise good)
3- :franny: (i thought she was a bit to childish to be a prosecutor everytime you get something right she just yell at you and call you a fool though she had a few good argument i say she was sub par at best)
4- :paynehair: ( well he has more going for him then klavier he was sorta ok on 3-1)
5- :kyouya: ( worst prosecutor ever he practily did apollo job for him well not that i blame him seeing how bad apollo was but that's for a different topic i guess plus i hate his fake accent i bet he's never even been to germany)
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I suppose so although I think he makes a better defense attorney than a prosecutor :godot: / :javado:
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Sucks or not, he's the damn Godot!
Godot isn't addicted to coffee, coffee is addicted to Godot.

...But yeah, Godot isn't really the "best" prosecutor. But he's a lot more calm and collected than Edgy or Franzie.
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jamie gumshoe wrote:
this is my rank of best to worst prosecutor

1- :edgy: (probaly the best overall balance of skill defently a tough opponent)
2- :godot: (got by a little bit more on whim and emotion but otherwhise good)
3- :franny: (i thought she was a bit to childish to be a prosecutor everytime you get something right she just yell at you and call you a fool though she had a few good argument i say she was sub par at best)
4- :paynehair: ( well he has more going for him then klavier he was sorta ok on 3-1)
5- :kyouya: ( worst prosecutor ever he practily did apollo job for him well not that i blame him seeing how bad apollo was but that's for a different topic i guess plus i hate his fake accent i bet he's never even been to germany)


Personally, I very much disagree with what people say about Klavier. Put simply, if Klavier wanted to kick your ass, he could. AND HARD.

Admittedly, it would have been nice if we'd had a third prosecutor for AJ, and I do agree with some of the complaints. I just don't see why anyone holds such trivialities against him so hard.

Here's my ranking:

1. :edgeworth: - OK, here we agree. Edgeworth has the perfect balance of skills and wit.
2. :godot: - Again, I pretty much agree with what you said thar.
3. :kyouya: - As stated above, if he wanted to kick your ass, he could. I think it should be to his credit that he actually wants Justice. (Fangirls, do not reinterpret.)
4. :karma: - (Why wasn't he on your list?!) As hard as some people found him, I think that he entirely lacks any subtlety. It's totally obvious where the problems in testimonies are because he is utterly obnoxious about it when they appear. As such, it was always obvious what statements had issues.
5. :franny: - I really don't get why Klavier gets so much crap and Franziska doesn't. As far as I can tell, I really see little to no skill whatsoever in her.
6. :payne: - Speaks for itself.
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Each Prosecutor has a different strategy, which is a remarkable, really. It's hard enough to make a tightly-plotted game with well-clued puzzles and continual tension, but to do it in so many varied ways is a feat, especially when it would've been trivial and fan-pleasing to always put Edgeworth up against Wright. If we look at it this way, Godot shouldn't get flack for relying more on bluffing, bull, and cockiness than the other Prosecutors. It's just his character. And while his attitude towards the other characters needles me, I have to admit that he's entertaining.

Edgeworth's the best Prosecutor because his razor-sharpness is his defining character trait. None of the other prosecutors will measure up to his standard because none of them are being written to the Sherlock Holmes archetype! Once we admit this, Godot starts looking much more competent.

That didn't stop me from writing this microfic a while back, though, explaining how Godot could've snagged that Prosecutor job...

Spoiler: LOGIC System
In order to quiet Payne's complaints, Edgeworth explained the decision thus:

***

Premise 1: Wright has had demonstrably innocent clients eight out of nine times, and only taken the ninth under duress.

Premise 2: In the past, Wright has always acted in the interests of justice.

Premise 3: Wright has always won in the end when his clients were innocent.

Induction A: Wright's clients are usually innocent; if not, he will most likely drop the case in the interests of justice. Otherwise, he will eventually win.

Premise 4: Wright will not give up under any circumstances.

Premise 5: The conviction of an innocent client is a "circumstance."

Deduction B, from 4 and 5: Wright will not give up in the event of the conviction of an innocent client.

Deduction C, from A and B: If one of Wright's clients is convicted, Wright will not give up, and he will win in the end, overturning the conviction.

Premise 6: In the event of the conviction of an innocent person, that person may sue for MASSIVE DAMAGES.

Deduction D, from C and 6: If one of Wright's clients is convicted, we will be sued.

Premise 7: If we are sued, we will face a punitive salary cut.

Premise 8: If we face a punitive salary cut, Mr. Payne's beloved Cresta will be repossessed.

Deduction E, from D, 7, and 8: If one of Wright's clients is convicted, Mr. Payne's beloved Cresta will be repossessed.

Premise 9: If an inexperienced prosecutor is assigned to Wright's clients, there is a low probability that one of Wright's clients will be convicted.

***

Edgeworth left Payne to make the final, invalid deduction on his own.

Deduction F (From E, 9, and a misunderstanding of conditional probabilities:) If an inexperienced prosecutor is assigned to Wright's clients, there is a low probability that Mr. Payne's beloved Cresta will be repossessed.

As it happens, this was not only invalid, but outright false, as Payne discovered when he lost his savings to a scam artist's "Institute for Hair Recovery."

The Cresta will be sorely missed.

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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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:karma: Was always in complete control of the case, to the level where he was able to shut down perfectly valid arguments by Phoenix.
:edgeworth: explains itself
:franny: I wasn't that big on her until I just recently discovered just how much of her father is in her...right down to the sprites.
:payne: @ 3-1.
:spit: ...I've said everything I've wanted to say about him.
:hair-flip: In 4-1, he seemed more on top of things than usual, though you could argue that the evidence against :hobohodo: was rather strong.
:rock'n: He's obnoxious, whiny in 4-3, can't even speak proper german [He'd use more V's] and he does the freaking air guitar thing way too much. :odoroki: said it best: "Does everything with this guy have to be so over the top?"
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Here's my own ranking similar to Lind's, but I can't give Klavier that much credit.

1. :edgeworth: - He wants to find the truth and leave no doubt in it so he pushes as hard as he can to eliminate possibilities with sharp wit to come up with extremely logical arguments seemingly on the spot.
2. :godot: - Intimidation, calm, cool, unfazed, and bitter. He was sharp not with so much the evidence, but with his ability to just get under your skin and to capture attention with his passion when he truly needed it.
3. :karma: - Extremely intimidating and controlling, but always too controlling to the point you could tell when things didn't sound well for him. Otherwise, great.
4. :kyouya: - I honestly admire his efforts, but at the same time if he really wanted to find the truth and he should really hit as hard as he can and have Apollo just prove him wrong.
5. :franny: - She did nothing, but complain, name call, or whip if something didn't go her way. Chilidish and rarely productive.
6. :payne: - So much pain and so little gain... I'm surprised that he said he went 7 years undefeated in AJ...
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Why should you be? During that 7 year streak, he was the 3-1 Payne.
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Godot isn't a good prosecutor and it isn't that weird since he was an Lawyer to begin with and never prosecuted before. But I dont care because at the time I didn't think about since he was just so epic and said epic things and was just epic.
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Call me Ishmael.

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I liked him as a character (the only thing I dislike about him is the fact that he's a sexist), but not as a prosecutor.

To me it felt like they ran out of ideas and that's why he does nothing other than to sit back and say "evidence, Trite" every now and then.
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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nuuuuu, stoooooop

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Hey guys this is not a "rank the prosecutors" thread (I'm pretty sure we've had 3 of those already). Please stick to Godot.

SerialVER wrote:
Spoiler:
He did not prosecute that case. Also, by not turning in that 'fake' he ended up making others work out why there was a fake to start with and made Phoenix work harder to uncover the truth and squirm a bit as well, which frankly who wouldn't make someone you hate sweat buckets? Plus last but not least, he may not known, he might just been acting cool by saying he knew.


Spoiler:
Allowing an innocent woman to be convicted of murder pretty much says point blank that Godot doesn't care one bit about "finding the truth." If he knew Tigre was a fake, how could he not realize that something fishy was going on? Why not just slip a note to the judge and have it declared a mistrial? It's the same as when he does nothing to prevent Pearl from reading Morgan's note later: he didn't care about the truth, didn't care about anyone's safety or happiness, all he cared about is his "vengeance" and the things that directly affected it.

Of course, we don't know for sure if Godot saw Tigre in disguise. But if Godot did not know, you end up with a plot hole in the middle of his character. If Godot believed that Phoenix really did try that case, why did he not take it? Facing Phoenix is the entire point. With the way they set up his character I don't think it makes sense for Godot to say "I don't feel like facing Wright on this one."

And even if he didn't know about the case until it was done, it was all over the news (proved by Gumshoe). If Godot read that Phoenix lost to PAYNE of all people, wouldn't that have affected his revenge in some way? What point in there is proving Phoenix sucks when he already lost to PAYNE?

Either way you look at it, Godot either lives in a bubble and only gets certain information fed to him, or he knew about Tigre and deliberately did nothing. Either way that does not make a good prosecutor.

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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Mr. Step-ladder

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Godot wasn't a good prosecutor, he was apparently a great DA, but other than that...
Not that I hate the guy, but hey, he lost all three cases, all he was after was Phoenix Wright. Really, we all love him because of the jazz, the visor, the one-liners and 3-5. *SHOT*
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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OBJECTION! BOTH ATTORNEYS ARE AWESOME!

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Ember-the-prosecutor wrote:
I liked him as a character (the only thing I dislike about him is the fact that he's a sexist), but not as a prosecutor.


How is Godot sexist? A flirt and a sexist aren't the same thing.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Mia would let him have it if she was offended by the whole "kitten" thing. I mean, she whacks Grossberg across the face in 3-1 whenever the subject of love comes up, she had a slight temper problem back then.

Unless you're referring to something else altogether, but 3-4 is the only thing that comes to mind.

And MYSELF of all people is defending him here...
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It's all Wright to be wrong sometimes!

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I detest Godot. The whole 'fling coffee at Phoenix when you don't get your way' thing and the 'Trite' thing... I dislike his theme, I dislike the way he uses random metaphors to get his point across, I don't like the way he always says "....Ha!" and "...We're listening." I really, really don't like the way he's out to get Phoenix, who, despite having a murder weapon growing out of his head(as my frequently bored friends put it), is at least committed to finding the truth. Godot also lacks cutting wit and the sheer dominance of personality we find in, respectively, Edgeworth and the von Karmas.
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MARXISM: MAKING PROPERTY HISTORY

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Oh my god! People don't like Godot? ARE YOU INSANE?! No this can only mean one thing. THE APOCOLYPSE IS NIGH!!!!!!!!!!! Now you're going to say that you don't like :edgy: , oh and wasn't :phoenix: so annoying! AREN'T YOU?!!! YOU'RE GOING TO SAY THAT YOU HATE THE AA SERIES!! YOU'RE GOING TO SAY THAT YOU HATE VIDEOGAMES!!!! ADMIT IT! YOU HATE LIFE DON'T YOU YOU EMO, SADOMASICHISTS!

Oh sorry. I got a little carried away there. But in case you didn't get it from what I said, I love Godot.
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