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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Quote:
What would have happened in 3-3 if he DID beat Phoenix? Especially towards the end, when Phoenix more or less proved who was guilty but couldn't *prove* who was guilty? Would Godot have taken his GUILTY verdict and left it at that--left an innocent woman to be executed? Would he have waited until after the trial and then tried to get it appealed? Could he even do that after her case had been heard twice?


Spoiler:
.
:toaster:
If Phoenix wouldn't have made it at the end, there would be the Not Guilty verdict with no real killer, just like the Judge was about to do before Godot's objection.
This means he could easily confess if Phoenix didn't make it, because at the time they had no suspect.

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Akiak wrote:
Spoiler:
.
:toaster:
If Phoenix wouldn't have made it at the end, there would be the Not Guilty verdict with no real killer, just like the Judge was about to do before Godot's objection.
This means he could easily confess if Phoenix didn't make it, because at the time they had no suspect.


Are you talking about 3-5? Because I was talking about 3-3, where Maggey is the suspect right up to the end.
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I didn't particularly like the guy, he was an ok prosecutor. Though i think he could have done much better if he just wasn't out to get Phoenix.

As for disregard to those who were accused... Well as logic would have it not everyone on the stand is guilty, yet the rest of the prosecutors were trying their best to win them all in order to... keep a perfect record. So i think most of them are the same there, one out to win for to sake of beating an individual, the rest to win for the sake of perfection.

I got the impression that he was an incredible defense lawyer though. From the case with Mia.
The way he saw what was going to happen before we did and such, and his unwillingness to give up which in the end lead to his coma. I just think with love, death, poison and hate he became blind in more ways then one.

So no he didn't seem like a particularly good prosecutor, he only liked to watch Phoenix squirm. But i guess thats what Phoenix "saved" him from as Mia said.
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title

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Maqu wrote:
I got the impression that he was an incredible defense lawyer though. From the case with Mia.
The way he saw what was going to happen before we did and such, and his unwillingness to give up which in the end lead to his coma. I just think with love, death, poison and hate he became blind in more ways then one.


Yeah- he was far too angry all the time to counter Phoenix properly. I think his heart was still a defense lawyer wanting justice in the end, but wanting to size up how good Phoenix was in the mean time. I get the feeling that it Phoenix was incapable, Godot would've still got the correct verdict. He was meant to be a tragedy though I suspect. His whole existence in the game almost perfectly followed the formula of a Shakespearian like tale.
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Arkillian wrote:
Yeah- he was far too angry all the time to counter Phoenix properly. I think his heart was still a defense lawyer wanting justice in the end, but wanting to size up how good Phoenix was in the mean time. I get the feeling that it Phoenix was incapable, Godot would've still got the correct verdict. He was meant to be a tragedy though I suspect. His whole existence in the game almost perfectly followed the formula of a Shakespearian like tale.


And that's the most important thing of all. :godot:

Anyway, Croik I was talking about 3-5 the whole time :payne:
What's wrong about 3-3?
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You quoted a portion where I was talking about 3-3 - wondering if Godot was so intent on beating Phoenix that he would have gotten Maggey convicted and executed just to prove himself right.
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Croik wrote:
You quoted a portion where I was talking about 3-3 - wondering if Godot was so intent on beating Phoenix that he would have gotten Maggey convicted and executed just to prove himself right.

I bet Godot never could be that cruel *insert here common reasons*
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Croik wrote:
You quoted a portion where I was talking about 3-3 - wondering if Godot was so intent on beating Phoenix that he would have gotten Maggey convicted and executed just to prove himself right.

My bad :yuusaku:

Anyway 3-5, as I said, is a great example of his justice serving skills. He knows before everyone the truth behind cases, and he knows how to be competitive without letting his emotions get the better of him, like in 3-3

Although I must agree Godot is better as a defense attorney skill-wise. He was made for serving justice, unlike the ruthless perfectionist prosecutors of the previous games which everyone love.
Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Sure, he's not competitive as the other prosecutors, but he lacks the will to want to win how do you expect him to stand up to Phoenix if he lacks the will.
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I'm not really sure. I think all he cared about is revenge against Phoenix because of
Spoiler:
what Dahlia did to him and Mia's death.
But then again, he's a calm, cool and collected prosecutor, unlike the others. :godot:
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hasfarr wrote:
But then again, he's a calm, cool and collected prosecutor, unlike the others. :godot:

I agree with this.
He isn't the best prosecutor, but he was a cool one.
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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1- :edgy: A good opponent, not easy, not hard.
2- :franny: I have to say, all the whipping made me regret when I was wrong, which helped my performance in the game as I thought logically not wanting the whip.
3- :godot: A decent opponent, but not the best.
4- :karma: He was tough, but the testimonies in the case had obvious contradictions. I would have liked to see him prosecute for 3-5
5- :payne: Nuff said.
6- :kyouya: I'm going to spare you the rambling, he spoon-fed Polly with all the answers.
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Um, Detective Luke Atmey, this thread isn't for ranking prosecutors. It's just for debating over whether Godot was a good prosecutor or not. :meekins:

Anyways, Godot wasn't a good prosecutor because the only reason why he became a prosecutor in the first place was so he could get his revenge on Phoenix. He never cared about whether someone was innocent or guilty because all he could think about was Phoenix.
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He didn't really do much prosecution did he?
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Chloe wrote:
He didn't really do much prosecution did he?


This.

Which pretty much means it's difficult to judge Godot's skill and effectiveness as a prosecutor based on 3 (Or should I say 2 1/2?) cases alone. Add to that, he always had this personal agenda of his in court, so that definitely doesn't help in making an objective analysis of Godot as a prosecutor. Though I'd like to think he was a brilliant defense attorney.
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Godot's record as a Prosecutor: 0-3
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prosecuting never looked so good ;)

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The Canadian Judge wrote:
Godot's record as a Prosecutor: 0-3

Thank you! you said it right there. in his whole career as a prosecutor he did not win a single case. Yes, this may be because he was against phoenix and that means he must automatically fail in the end for continuitys sake, however in terms of skill he was up there with Edgeworth, but at least edgeworth had a previous win record and also won at least one case agains phoenix (state Vs. Engarde)

however in terms of him risking his life to save Maya (if you believe him) then he can be seen as a "good" prosecutor instead of an antagonistic one such as Von-Karma.
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I think people only like Godot just because of his story and personality not because he was a good prosecutor.
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Godot may be smart and all, but I think he's more of a badass prosecutor rather than a good one. I mean, like what most people had already stated, he had never really won a case before.. But because of his past, his theme music and... well.. Plainly, his aura, you can tell he's a badass guy xD

Spoiler:
Maybe he's not really a good prosecutor 'cause he's originally a defence attorney? o_O

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prosecuting never looked so good ;)

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GCMiekoV wrote:
Godot may be smart and all, but I think he's more of a badass prosecutor rather than a good one. I mean, like what most people had already stated, he had never really won a case before.. But because of his past, his theme music and... well.. Plainly, his aura, you can tell he's a badass guy xD

Spoiler:
Maybe he's not really a good prosecutor 'cause he's originally a defence attorney? o_O


He probably was, because during T&T case 4 when edgeworth tricks Mia with information Godot (as diego) says : ha. Thats the oldest trick in the prosecutors book." as well as : "I can see why they call this kid a genius, he knows all the strategies already."

meaning that even though he was a defence attorney, he knew all the tricks and methods that prosecutors use, meaning he could have easily have been a prosecutor.
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zachariah Von-Karma wrote:
GCMiekoV wrote:
Godot may be smart and all, but I think he's more of a badass prosecutor rather than a good one. I mean, like what most people had already stated, he had never really won a case before.. But because of his past, his theme music and... well.. Plainly, his aura, you can tell he's a badass guy xD

Spoiler:
Maybe he's not really a good prosecutor 'cause he's originally a defence attorney? o_O


He probably was, because during T&T case 4 when edgeworth tricks Mia with information Godot (as diego) says : ha. Thats the oldest trick in the prosecutors book." as well as : "I can see why they call this kid a genius, he knows all the strategies already."

meaning that even though he was a defence attorney, he knew all the tricks and methods that prosecutors use, meaning he could have easily have been a prosecutor.


Ah, that works too xP
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Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title

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Croik wrote:
Hey guys this is not a "rank the prosecutors" thread (I'm pretty sure we've had 3 of those already). Please stick to Godot.

SerialVER wrote:
Spoiler:
He did not prosecute that case. Also, by not turning in that 'fake' he ended up making others work out why there was a fake to start with and made Phoenix work harder to uncover the truth and squirm a bit as well, which frankly who wouldn't make someone you hate sweat buckets? Plus last but not least, he may not known, he might just been acting cool by saying he knew.


Spoiler:
Allowing an innocent woman to be convicted of murder pretty much says point blank that Godot doesn't care one bit about "finding the truth." If he knew Tigre was a fake, how could he not realize that something fishy was going on? Why not just slip a note to the judge and have it declared a mistrial? It's the same as when he does nothing to prevent Pearl from reading Morgan's note later: he didn't care about the truth, didn't care about anyone's safety or happiness, all he cared about is his "vengeance" and the things that directly affected it.


Of course, we don't know for sure if Godot saw Tigre in disguise. But if Godot did not know, you end up with a plot hole in the middle of his character. If Godot believed that Phoenix really did try that case, why did he not take it? Facing Phoenix is the entire point. With the way they set up his character I don't think it makes sense for Godot to say "I don't feel like facing Wright on this one."

And even if he didn't know about the case until it was done, it was all over the news (proved by Gumshoe). If Godot read that Phoenix lost to PAYNE of all people, wouldn't that have affected his revenge in some way? What point in there is proving Phoenix sucks when he already lost to PAYNE?

Either way you look at it, Godot either lives in a bubble and only gets certain information fed to him, or he knew about Tigre and deliberately did nothing. Either way that does not make a good prosecutor.


About the spoiler in your response, Godot :godot: never prosecuted the case with the fake Phoenix Wright :tigre: . It was Winston Payne. Don't believe me? Go on the wiki and type in the case's name, Recipe for Turnabout. It wasn't Godot in the first trial. He was the prosecutor for the appeal.
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Godot was a good character but a terrible Prosecutor, which I personally think diminished him as a character. Takumi should've done, "show, don't tell." All the characters did was talk about how cool, smart, challenging, and scary he was but that wasn't true at all. Up until Case 5, I thought of him as nothing more than a douche with a cool design
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Quote:
a douche with a cool design

That prety much sums it up. Prosecuting-wise, all I remember him doing is behaving like a jerk, mocking the defense and throwing coffee around him.
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Quote:
a douche with a cool design

That prety much sums it up. Prosecuting-wise, all I remember him doing is behaving like a jerk, mocking the defense and throwing coffee around him.


Exactly. Fun as a character (not so much as a person), a jerk of a prosecutor, cool design and he was a hot piece of ass.
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Another thing about Godot: HIS THEME IS OVERRATED

Ok, maybe I shouldn't say overrated because music is as subjuctive as you can get in a discussion, but it shocks me that this is the theme that always gets remixed on every single album. I do find myself listening to it from time to time, but there are so many other worthy ones that get overlooked for remix (though the Jazz Soul version is awesome)

It's not even the best character theme in Trials and Tribulations. Besides Larry's and SOMETIMES Dahlia's, I prefer about every other
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Agreed. It's good, but not fantastic. Although it does fit him to a T and sounds very sexual
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Haha, me and my friend were drinking coffee a few weeks ago and it was morning and I was tired and grumpy, so put Godot's theme on. My friend said it sounded like porno-music.

I don't find it overrated, though. I love it.
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It depends what you mean by "good".

Godot was good at what the game and the series requires -- there was constant tension and sparks between him and Phoenix, which made the third game fun to play and kept its story exciting.

Klavier was the opposite. Yes, of course, as several people said in this thread, he was ridiculously over-the-top Marty Stu awesome; that was what everyone loathed about him as a character. The problem was that he was on your side the entire time, and it was so painfully obvious that it stripped out most of what made the game fun. You couldn't get into the game in the sense of wanting to defeat him, because, well, he was a totally reasonable guy and already on your side and therefore there was nothing to defeat.

This is why they didn't eg. reuse Edgeworth as a prosecutor after the first game (Mia's flashback case and his own series notwithstanding) -- once Edgeworth is clearly on your side, where's the excitement in facing off against him? Unless you make Phoenix an idiot or insert lots of contrived coincidences, you end up with a game where Phoenix and Edgeworth put their heads together, share all their information, and solve the entire case in five minutes. That's no fun at all.

(And guess what happened with Klavier? They made Apollo an idiot; then as soon as Phoenix got involved, Klavier and Phoenix put their heads together and solved everything with almost no involvement from the player. And it sucked. Again, the AA games need tension with the prosecutor to keep things interesting. That works best if they have some dramatic, heroic flaw you can cast your main character against -- all the other prosecutors, to one extent or another, were interestingly flawed, especially Godot; Godot's monomanical obsession with Phoenix doesn't make him a good prosecutor, but it makes him an interesting character. Klavier was flawless and therefore utterly uninteresting.)

Also, I didn't get the sense that the player was meant to actually see Godot as hypercompetent -- the game does sort of make fun of the concept by having him brag about being undefeated, then reveal that this is because he has never prosecuted a case before. Sure, he talks impresses the judge, but so did, say, Furio Tigre, so. To me, the fact that his reputation seemed undeserved and his posturing ultimately hollow only made it more fun to get into the game so I could finally take him down.
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I don't think Godot was a good prosecutor. Aside from heavily disliking him as a character, his entire reason for prosecuting is silly. He only ever takes a case if Phoenix is the defense. And even then, he doesn't really care to find out the truth, he just wants to be a petty little baby and pettily tease "Trite" over and over, over nothing.

Sure, people may say Klavier was worse because he was never an actual threat to the player, was always willing to listen to reason and be all, "It's cool. If you wanna win this case and destroy my prepared testimonies and evidence, go ahead. I don't mind, sweetheart." But at least Klavier was still semi-serious about his job at times. Yeah he teased Apollo, but it was a friendly kind of banter - a bit more lighthearted than the things thrown between Edgeworth and Phoenix.

Godot just... he's a petty little dickweed. I would say he's similar to Karma, in that he was petty in being a jerk to a defense attorney, but then, Karma was still better. Karma at least did things for his own reasons and wanted to keep a winning streak up, not just pettily poke the defense.

Oh and Godot's reason for hating Phoenix are just plain dumb. I don't care if he eventually admits he was wrong in hating Phoenix, Godot is a moron who tries to be a tragic hero, but all he does for me is make me hate him even more and wish he had never been created. The only nice thing is his theme and even that I can't tolerate for more than about 10 minutes.

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Aquillion wrote:


Also, I didn't get the sense that the player was meant to actually see Godot as hypercompetent -- the game does sort of make fun of the concept by having him brag about being undefeated, then reveal that this is because he has never prosecuted a case before. Sure, he talks impresses the judge, but so did, say, Furio Tigre, so. To me, the fact that his reputation seemed undeserved and his posturing ultimately hollow only made it more fun to get into the game so I could finally take him down.

But to do this, they just dumbed Phoenix down. He was absurdly pathetic for 90% of the game. I felt no tension and I'm sure the devs wanted us to think Godot was competent because every dialogue about him mentioned how fearsome, smart, and good of a prosecutor he was

When it was revealed Von Karma was the killer in 1-4, I thought, "Oh shit! I'm gonna have to go head to head with Von Karma?!?!?" With Godot, I was just like, "Meh. It shouldn't be impossible to prove. He's been kind of weak this whole game." Actually, if Klavier was revealed to be the killer in a case, I actually think he'd put up a pretty good fight. And in all of the first trial days, Klavier has proven to be a fairly clever Prosecutor, so I think he is smarter than Godot in a way
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CatMuto wrote:
Oh and Godot's reason for hating Phoenix are just plain dumb. I don't care if he eventually admits he was wrong in hating Phoenix, Godot is a moron who tries to be a tragic hero[...]


I found Godot quite amusing - a total jerk, it's a bit of an an enigma why I even like him since I can't stand arrogance and sexism - but yeah, on that I totally agree. That reason was... ugh. Dumb and quite sexist. Yay.
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No he wasn't. I don't even know where to begin with...

Firstly, the whole idea of Godot's character is absurd. The dude went into coma for five years and woke up because of the scent of a coffee cup, put a visor on his face and wasn't recognized by anyone (even being a former famous attorney)
And how the hell did he achieve the position of prosecutor? It was said that he simply chose to act as a prosecutor and then was respected as such, which is a shit explanation. I know everything I've previously said can be countered with "oh, but it's the AA-verse.."
Point is, even for AA-verse standards, I find Godot's character incongruous.

Secondly, his backstory is very superficial - at least, compared with the backstory of other characters. We don't know what were his motivations to become a lawyer, we don't know about anything that ties him to the law. We only know he worked in the same office as Mia and fell for her, and even their relationship is somewhat superficial, since we didn't see any reciprocity from Mia.

Finally, his personality is very irritating. Edgeworth can act as a cold prick, Fran is a bitch at times but I still like them. It's not the case with Godot, mainly because he is too melodramatic about himself. All his actions are motivated by self-pity and even though he admitted he was wrong in hating Phoenix, I honestly didn't see any significant development of his character through the game.
Seriously, he is one of the reasons T&T is easily the worst game of the main trilogy.
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Worse as a prosecutor than Edgeworth or Blackquill, but better as a character than Blackquill for sure. That is, he has better characterization but I find both him and blackquill to have drab and superficial backstories.
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dangerousoffender wrote:
Seriously, he is one of the reasons T&T is easily the worst game of the main trilogy.

*coughDahliaHawthornecough*
linkenski wrote:
Worse as a prosecutor than Edgeworth or Blackquill, but better as a character than Blackquill for sure. That is, he has better characterization but I find both him and blackquill to have drab and superficial backstories.

I'd take a fun and entertaining two-dimensional character with a lot of personality over a boring and cliche three-dimensional one any day
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'd take a fun and entertaining two-dimensional character with a lot of personality over a boring and cliche three-dimensional one any day

This, just this.
It's been one year and 146 days since I last quoted someone like that.
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dangerousoffender wrote:
No he wasn't. I don't even know where to begin with...

Firstly, the whole idea of Godot's character is absurd. The dude went into coma for five years and woke up because of the scent of a coffee cup, put a visor on his face and wasn't recognized by anyone (even being a former famous attorney)
And how the hell did he achieve the position of prosecutor? It was said that he simply chose to act as a prosecutor and then was respected as such, which is a shit explanation. I know everything I've previously said can be countered with "oh, but it's the AA-verse.."
Point is, even for AA-verse standards, I find Godot's character incongruous.
Wait, do we know as a fact that nobody recognized him?

I assumed that some people knew who he was (hence he was able to apply his previous legal education to rapidly become a prosecutor) but that it wouldn't have meant anything to Phoenix or Maya, who didn't know much about Mia's legal history; and none of the people who knew had any reason to think to tell them "oh hey he was Mia's senior at the Grossman legal firm." He was mysterious to the public (who wouldn't have recognized his real name anyway), and to the people in that courtroom (because none of them, aside from the Judge, would have recognized him, and the Judge is, well, the Judge), but that doesn't mean that he was a complete enigma to everyone.
Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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Aquillion wrote:
Wait, do we know as a fact that nobody recognized him?


Yeah we know.
1. Cause the judge, who probably saw Armando several times in court (!!) didn't recognize him (the moron was even surprised when Phoenix revealed his identity at the end of 3-5)
2. Because Gumshoe (who also knew Armando) basically told Phoenix that Godot was a "mystery" that came out of nowhere.

So yes, we can pretty much assume that nobody recognized him. Want to get a new identity? Just bleach your hair white and cover your eyes with a mask.
Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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It had been 6 years and they were certain he was dead, though. They really had no reason to believe it'd be him. That is, apart from the fact that he wore excactly the same hairstyle and clothes just in different colours. My point being... I don't know anymore.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Was Godot a good prosecutor?Topic%20Title
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This is months late but w/e

imnotguilty6 wrote:
Croik wrote:
Hey guys this is not a "rank the prosecutors" thread (I'm pretty sure we've had 3 of those already). Please stick to Godot.

SerialVER wrote:
Spoiler:
He did not prosecute that case. Also, by not turning in that 'fake' he ended up making others work out why there was a fake to start with and made Phoenix work harder to uncover the truth and squirm a bit as well, which frankly who wouldn't make someone you hate sweat buckets? Plus last but not least, he may not known, he might just been acting cool by saying he knew.


Spoiler:
Allowing an innocent woman to be convicted of murder pretty much says point blank that Godot doesn't care one bit about "finding the truth." If he knew Tigre was a fake, how could he not realize that something fishy was going on? Why not just slip a note to the judge and have it declared a mistrial? It's the same as when he does nothing to prevent Pearl from reading Morgan's note later: he didn't care about the truth, didn't care about anyone's safety or happiness, all he cared about is his "vengeance" and the things that directly affected it.


Of course, we don't know for sure if Godot saw Tigre in disguise. But if Godot did not know, you end up with a plot hole in the middle of his character. If Godot believed that Phoenix really did try that case, why did he not take it? Facing Phoenix is the entire point. With the way they set up his character I don't think it makes sense for Godot to say "I don't feel like facing Wright on this one."

And even if he didn't know about the case until it was done, it was all over the news (proved by Gumshoe). If Godot read that Phoenix lost to PAYNE of all people, wouldn't that have affected his revenge in some way? What point in there is proving Phoenix sucks when he already lost to PAYNE?

Either way you look at it, Godot either lives in a bubble and only gets certain information fed to him, or he knew about Tigre and deliberately did nothing. Either way that does not make a good prosecutor.


About the spoiler in your response, Godot :godot: never prosecuted the case with the fake Phoenix Wright :tigre: . It was Winston Payne. Don't believe me? Go on the wiki and type in the case's name, Recipe for Turnabout. It wasn't Godot in the first trial. He was the prosecutor for the appeal.

Nobody's arguing that Godot prosecuted Maggey's first trial, you missed the point entirely.

Godot's whole motivation was beating Phoenix, so by not taking that first trial, it pretty much shows that Godot knew Tigre was an impersonator. So he sat idly by while Maggey was convicted of murder because she had an attorney that was not only incompetent, but actively trying to get her found guilty. That's pretty scummy.
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