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dahlia overrated ?
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Author:  CatMuto [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

InfamousStepladder wrote:
LoopZoop wrote:
Eh, she was okay, but as has already been said, she was just too obvious as a villain.


To be fair, her guilt would have been kind of obvious no mater what. She was the first witness in the first case and after playing two games where the witness in the first case are the killer, we're naturally going to come to the conclusion that this time is no different. Also, it's not like they would have enough time in a tutorial case to introduce any more witnesses to throw you off. From the beginning she was really the only one that could have done it and because of that I'm not so sure they were really trying all that hard to hide it.


And in the fourth case, it was obvious that she had something to hide, with that whole Fake Name thing... that was a really bad move of the developers. I mean, we know she's not who she says she is, so of course we're gonna suspect her instantly.

C-A

Author:  krystalgazer [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

She's an interesting character and a good villain in my opinion; instead of being 'high concept' villains like von Karma, Matt Engarde, Luke Atmey etc., whose crimes are heavily planned and whose goals orient back to their reputations, how they see themselves and how they want the world to see themselves, Dahlia was just in it for her. I don't see that she had any other motives apart from looking out for herself, whether getting some cash or keeping herself out of jail, and perhaps as a side goal getting back at Daddy. For me, that was pretty refreshing, where we got someone who was consumed by the very real emotions of greed and selfishness, and just got pulled deeper and deeper into a spiral of horrible acts the more she struggled to get away scot-free. Usually a character like this would have some sort of remorse or higher reason for all their crimes, but from the beginning to the end, Dahlia was remoseless, selfish and spiteful.

I don't like her, but I don't think you're supposed to. She's not relatable, but you can get why she's doing what she's doing. And she's consistent. Plus, the fact that she pretty much bumbled her way through ruining the lives of most of the Ace Attorney cast just adds salt to the wound, and again is rather realistic; the people who are the most destructive usually aren't the uber-smart planners; they're selfish a-holes who have their plans blow up in their face, and other people get caught in the crossfire. With the exception of Mia, who ruined all her plans and thus got true hate from Dahlia, most of the other people got hurt just because they were unlucky enough to be in her way. After all the villains who carefully planned to be evil, it was impressive to have someone who was just a downright sociopath.

Author:  Sligneris [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Dahlia's design is overrated, that's for sure... I do wish they went for this second design seen in concept art... Or sixth or tenth. These were actually cute... The final Dahlia design was just kind of meh.

Author:  WaitingforGodot [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Sligneris wrote:
The final Dahlia design was just kind of meh.


Yes, I absolutely agree with that.

Author:  CatMuto [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Sligneris wrote:
Dahlia's design is overrated, that's for sure... I do wish they went for this second design seen in concept art... Or sixth or tenth. These were actually cute... The final Dahlia design was just kind of meh.


Why is it overrated? If she goes the line of the so-cute-and-innocent route, she has to look like that. Had she been given one of those designs, it would have been harder for some people to be fooled by her innocent-act. I mean, if someone who looks peppy and happy-go-lucky suddenly acts innocent, it seems fake.

C-A

Author:  Going for Miles [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

But if a peppy-happy-go-lucky-person turns out to be a creep it's a little more unexpected than if an overly sweet and innocent person does, because that has been done more often.

Author:  CatMuto [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

GoingforMiles wrote:
But if a peppy-happy-go-lucky-person turns out to be a creep it's a little more unexpected than if an overly sweet and innocent person does, because that has been done more often.


Yeah, but a happy go lucky person going insane or creepy isn't new, either. Also, she is trying to HIDE her creepy side, so of course she'll act the opposite to throw people off her scent. Pure logic.

C-A

Author:  Going for Miles [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I never said it was, did I?

And I think acting peppy and happy-go-lucky would serve the same purpose. With "overly innocent" I didn't mean innocent as in "not guilty" but as in frail, timid and iiinnoceeent :flowsers:

Author:  Sligneris [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Well, only the second design was happy-go-lucky, anyway. The remaining two (6 and 10) are certainly more of harmless-and-fragile (both are cute and innocent, really) type.

Author:  Going for Miles [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Yeah, I just kind of jumped into the conversation without looking when I saw the word "peppy" being used and assumed it was about the peppy designs. :adrian:

Author:  WaitingforGodot [ Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

GoingforMiles wrote:
I never said it was, did I?

And I think acting peppy and happy-go-lucky would serve the same purpose. With "overly innocent" I didn't mean innocent as in "not guilty" but as in frail, timid and iiinnoceeent :flowsers:


That.

Author:  georgeho1987 [ Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Watching cases about Dahlia again, I now realize that she is a thunder rod for the "evilness" that Godot and Edgeworth caused to the court and the "sloppiness" that Terry and Phoenix caused themselves.

Mia always kicks Dahlia's @$$, and Dahlia would get KO'ed. But prosecutors filled holes for the Court just to refute defense's arguments and treat courts like battlegrounds. And Dahlia can easily manipulate the gullible just to get away with her crimes. After all, she "let" gullible men (nearly) kill themselves and "charmed" other men. If not for prosecutors (and stupid men), she could have been finished quickly.

Author:  Anyare [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

georgeho1987 wrote:
Watching cases about Dahlia again, I now realize that she is a thunder rod for the "evilness" that Godot and Edgeworth caused to the court and the "sloppiness" that Terry and Phoenix caused themselves.

Mia always kicks Dahlia's @$$, and Dahlia would get KO'ed. But prosecutors filled holes for the Court just to refute defense's arguments and treat courts like battlegrounds. And Dahlia can easily manipulate the gullible just to get away with her crimes. After all, she "let" gullible men (nearly) kill themselves and "charmed" other men. If not for prosecutors (and stupid men), she could have been finished quickly.

Spoiler:
catalyst
1. Chemistry . a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected.
2. something that causes activity between two or more persons or forces without itself being affected.
3. a person or thing that precipitates an event or change: His imprisonment by the government served as the catalyst that helped transform social unrest into revolution.
4. a person whose talk, enthusiasm, or energy causes others to be more friendly, enthusiastic, or energetic
She certainly fits the bill. Except maybe number four.

Author:  Mary Faraday [ Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Dahlia looks cute with her dress and her umbrella and whatever but she's a real devil-ass biotch.

Author:  davech1987 [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

She also killed her step sister and got terry to commit suicide.

also i thought ron was mask de masque

Author:  NinjaMonkey [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I fail to see how she's "overrated". She is the only AA villain, with the exception of Shelly De Killer, who has managed to kill someone (namely Valerie Hawthorne) and managed to get away with it.

OriginalBubs wrote:
Well, you've got villains like Dahlia, who much did her crimes primarily 'spur of the moment,' and then there's villains like Von Karma, who planned out their crimes.


How was Von Karma's crime "planned"? He just happened to come across an elevator, which just happened to contain Gregory Edgeworth and a pistol. That was pure coincidence, and has nothing to do with "planning".

Author:  JesusMonroe [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I think Dahlia is overrated because her character begins and ends at "nice, sweet, innocent girl who is actually evil." In fact, I think she tries too hard to be evil

And a lot of villains managed to "get away with" their crimes, depending on the definition you look at it from.

Author:  Nick T. Callahan [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I don't know about "overrated" (in spite of being a big AA fan, I'm not that familiar with the trends within the fanbase), but I certainly think she is one of the weakest characters in the series.

One of the most compelling parts of AA is that, even though the characters in it are initially presented as plain stereotypes, the plot gradually reveals the depths and complexities they hide. Admittedly, this is done with some characters more than others, but I think a great number of them (if not the majority) receive this treatment. Edgeworth is the prime example of this. When we are first introduced to him, he's pretty much your typical snobbish, privileged, high class rival to our protagonist. But even just within the first game, the more the plot goes on, the more we learn that there's more to him than meets the eye. Of course, Edgeworth is a major character, but even some of the single case characters receive this treatment to some degree. Heck, even Oldbag got a brief moment of this in "Turnabout Samurai", though she's been pretty much nothing but a cranky old lady since then.

But Dahlia had absolutely none of that. Sure, she could appear sweet and innocent at the drop of a dime, but otherwise, there's nothing particularly deep or complex about her. In spite of everything we learn about her, it comes off as though she is evil just for the sake of it. There really doesn't appear to be any reason why she was creating morally questionable schemes even from an early age. For all intents and purposes, she really is just a devil in disguise and nothing more.

Admittedly, she's not the only one who suffers from this and I'm not claiming that every villain needs to have redeeming qualities. But at least for me, she was a very uncompelling character.

Author:  Godot_#107 [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I hate Dahlia. What a b*tch. She stole a lot of money from his parents and even killed her own sister for her own greed. And Terry Fawles died because of her. And she just smiled at his dead body.
But I think that is what you are supposed to feel about her.

Author:  Txai Viegas [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

No other villain would call Mia a spinster and Pearls a sniveling runt.

Author:  Nurio [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Nick T. Callahan wrote:
In spite of everything we learn about her, it comes off as though she is evil just for the sake of it. There really doesn't appear to be any reason why she was creating morally questionable schemes even from an early age. For all intents and purposes, she really is just a devil in disguise and nothing more.

Well, there were numerous talks about how Dahlia was corrupted due to the negligent and loveless treatment from both her parents, and that the only reason Iris has any semblance of goodness is that she had Bikini as a mother figure.
So I can't agree that she just appeared evil for the sake of it.

Author:  luck [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Nurio wrote:
Nick T. Callahan wrote:
In spite of everything we learn about her, it comes off as though she is evil just for the sake of it. There really doesn't appear to be any reason why she was creating morally questionable schemes even from an early age. For all intents and purposes, she really is just a devil in disguise and nothing more.

Well, there were numerous talks about how Dahlia was corrupted due to the negligent and loveless treatment from both her parents, and that the only reason Iris has any semblance of goodness is that she had Bikini as a mother figure.
So I can't agree that she just appeared evil for the sake of it.

The thing is that Dahlia's evil actions don't seem to have an objective. Most of her crimes are cover-ups and revenges but the first one was stealing a diamond from her father, and since she doesn't seem to care about it anymore after that, we can assume she did it just to piss him off. Because she hated him. But really, what did he do to cause her to hate him so much? Did he beat her up frequently or something? For all we know, he at least gave her a wealthy life like your typical rich kid. Having emotionally distant parents don't turn people evil. Dahlia just seem to like hating on people. She hates her parents, she hates Mia and everybody related to her and she even hates Iris, when Iris has always treated her a lot better than she deserves.

Author:  Going for Miles [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Nurio wrote:
Nick T. Callahan wrote:
In spite of everything we learn about her, it comes off as though she is evil just for the sake of it. There really doesn't appear to be any reason why she was creating morally questionable schemes even from an early age. For all intents and purposes, she really is just a devil in disguise and nothing more.

Well, there were numerous talks about how Dahlia was corrupted due to the negligent and loveless treatment from both her parents, and that the only reason Iris has any semblance of goodness is that she had Bikini as a mother figure.
So I can't agree that she just appeared evil for the sake of it.


I may be wrong, but I always took that as something she just pulled out of her ass to... I don't know. Appear sympathethic? Try to explain her actions for herself?

Author:  Nurio [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I could've sworn Iris said the thing about the parents as well... But maybe I am mixing things up and that was Dahlia (in Maya's body) who said these things about herself...

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Found it! When you talk to the real Iris during recess in court, she says this:

Spoiler: "3-5 transcript by Xcarvenger"
Iris:
My sister...
I felt sorry for her.

Iris:
She was abandoned by our
mother and never got any love
from our father either.

Phoenix:
Yes, but... it was the same
for you too, wasn't it?

Iris:
Yes, but at least I had
Sister Bikini, who was
like a mother to me.

Iris:
If only Dahlia had come
with me to Hazakura Temple...

Iris:
I always...
I always loved her...

Iris:
Dahlia was always so smart,
so strong... She never
complained about a thing.

Iris:
That's why I...

Iris:
That's why I promised her
that I would help her.

Author:  WaitingforGodot [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

I actually started liking her more as a villain after replaying some cases. She's by far any favourite, but at first I absolutely loathed her. Now I actually think she's rather... well, perhaps "interesting" is the wrong word, but something like that.

Author:  Going for Miles [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Nurio Yeah... Still, it could be Iris trying to rationalize her behaviour... maybe...

Author:  Nurio [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Then straight from the horse's mouth...

When Dahlia testifies about Morgan's plan, she speaks with such loathing towards her own mother, that it's clear that she feels neglected by her.
I wouldn't say it's too farfetched that this is the source of Dahlia's lack of care for others. She learned that she's all alone in this world.
She never saw any care from her parents, so why should she care about others?

Author:  Going for Miles [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

True.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Well,to quote my 3-1 and 3-4 rankings:
Quote:
To be honest,I like the idea of her more than her character. This evil women who ruins everyone's lives,and whose crimes you get to expose the further you go down. But...she's so uninteresting. Her personality is just 'evil girl' and that's far too simplistic for a main villain in my opinion.

Plus,she stays in meek mode for far too long. Usually,villains take 70-80% of their screen time Pre transformation. Dahlia? 95% meek mode. That barely even leaves time for her evil mode,and her meek mode is somehow even worse than her evil mode. She just keeps making the prosecutor and judge go 'Aw,she's so sweet!' and never even counters your attacks. That's a good tactic in universe,but in meta,it's really boring. So she's hardly the best villain in video games,if you ask me.


So yeah,not the best villain in the series for me. She had potential,but her character spoilt it for me.

Author:  Hatshinit [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Honestly after finishing Gyakuten Kenji 2 all the other PW villains seem really lame in comparison. Dogen, Manfred, Shelly, and the game's main 3 ones hold such a damn strong presence... Investigations 2 is the best game in the series by far IMO.

Author:  Lone [ Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Overrated? Eh, not really imo. It's as said in-game: none of her murder plans actually succeed. And I think AA fans who like her remember this well enough. Dahlia's far from perfection, and I haven't seen anyone proclaim otherwise (correct me if I'm wrong). She's a case of simple yet effective imo.

Author:  NinjaMonkey [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Lone wrote:
It's as said in-game: none of her murder plans actually succeed.


Y'know, Valerie Hawthorne looked pretty dead to me in that photo. Also, Dahlia managed to get away with her murder after Fawles killed himself. She even got away with poisoning Diego Armando in the courthouse cafeteria. In fact, the only thing that she didn't manage to get away with, was killing Doug Swallow.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

NinjaMonkey wrote:
Lone wrote:
It's as said in-game: none of her murder plans actually succeed.


Y'know, Valerie Hawthorne looked pretty dead to me in that photo. Also, Dahlia managed to get away with her murder after Fawles killed himself. She even got away with poisoning Diego Armando in the courthouse cafeteria. In fact, the only thing that she didn't manage to get away with, was killing Doug Swallow.

She technically got caught with poisoning Diego, but only so in the trial for Doug's murder.

Also, there was really no verdict on Valerie's death due to Fawles's unexpected suicide.

Author:  NinjaMonkey [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Southern Corn wrote:
She technically got caught with poisoning Diego, but only so in the trial for Doug's murder.


The Judge dismisses it however, since you can't provide any proof that she did it.

Author:  Southern Corn [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

NinjaMonkey wrote:
Southern Corn wrote:
She technically got caught with poisoning Diego, but only so in the trial for Doug's murder.


The Judge dismisses it however, since you can't provide any proof that she did it.

That's before the trial ends, I think. After admitting to killing Doug, there must have been some sort of post trial investigation to determine that she was Diego's killer as well since I doubt she was hung just for killing Doug alone.

Author:  NinjaMonkey [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: dahlia overrated ?

Southern Corn wrote:
After admitting to killing Doug, there must have been some sort of post trial investigation to determine that she was Diego's killer as well since I doubt she was hung just for killing Doug alone.


I'd like to remind you that the penalty for murder in the AA universe is death, regardless of how many people you kill. So whether she killed one person or one hundred, the penalty that she'd receive would be the same.

Also, I'd also like to remind you that Diego Armando wasn't killed by the poison he ingested, but was placed in a coma for five years until he was revived by a doctor's cup of coffee, and eventually became Godot. In fact, Godot himself says that his case wasn't officially ruled as a murder.

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