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Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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Probably a wise choice by CAPCOM to not explicitly announce that Phoenix was in a relationship during the credits of T&T as it leaves it open for the shippers, but i just wanna know what you guys think.

Personally i think that Phoenix might have started a relationship with Iris, because during the credits Iris says that Phoenix regularly visited her and that he could not keep his eyes off her showing that he still had feelings for her after all that had happened and revealing it was her he was in love with not Dahlia. Plus After T&T, Maya would have had to return to Kurain village as the new master (seeing as her mother and sister are both dead) meaning that Pearls would have gone with her, leaving Phoenix on his own meaning he could pursue a romantic relationship once Iris was released from prison and Pearls had stopped assaulting him.
Although to remain in context of canon he would have had to have split with her and not have any relationships with anyone after the case that cost him his badge as Trucy only talks about her "daddy" Phoenix, and asks "Are you going to find a new mommy?" by Trucy Meaning he had no woman in his life after he adopted her.

Even though Phoenix still kept in contact with Maya (As proven in AJ) he may have only remained friends with her as she is never mentioned by name, this could be the same case with Iris as she is also a member of the Fey family so he could keep in contact with her through Maya due to her position as master.
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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Although in saying that, by that train of logic he could have equally have finished with Iris and have had a relationship with Franziska, Maya, Lana or any of the women that liked him and he also sorta liked.
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I personally find it frustrating and outrageous how so many people are against Phoenix x Iris.

Why? Because they're all convinced that Phoenix should be with Maya.

Sure, that's fine.

But that's no reason to TONGUE LASH/HATE/DESPISE Phoenix x Iris.

I swear, whenever I bring up the topic, everyone responds with 'GRAAAH!! STUFF IRIS! WE LOVE NICK X MAYA. IRIS CAN JUST GO JUMP OF A CLIFF OR GET HANGED AND DIE LIKE HER SISTER DID!'

Unimpressed, fans.

Unimpressed. :maggy:
Why are you...lying to me?
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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prosecuting never looked so good ;)

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ChihiroAyasato wrote:
I personally find it frustrating and outrageous how so many people are against Phoenix x Iris.

Why? Because they're all convinced that Phoenix should be with Maya.

Sure, that's fine.

But that's no reason to TONGUE LASH/HATE/DESPISE Phoenix x Iris.

I swear, whenever I bring up the topic, everyone responds with 'GRAAAH!! STUFF IRIS! WE LOVE NICK X MAYA. IRIS CAN JUST GO JUMP OF A CLIFF OR GET HANGED AND DIE LIKE HER SISTER DID!'

Unimpressed, fans.

Unimpressed. :maggy:


Loving the enthusiasm for phoeris (my name for it)
but i agree, besides its more plausible as iris is older than Maya and therefore more suitable to be a girlfriend for him. Plus also, even if it was just nerves, everytime Pearls mentioned anything of emotional feelings like that Maya or Nick would always deny those claims.
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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In my opinion, Phoenix thought looking after Maya as he would for some sort of daughter/sister was his responsibility after Mia died, just like Pearl after he got her mother convicted, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, the Gramarye trial, from what I understood, was, what, two months after Iris's? I doubt much could have happened in-between, other than Phoenix becoming horribly arrogant. Although this IS shipping, so there's no way to be sure.
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bijwmoc wrote:
In my opinion, Phoenix thought looking after Maya as he would for some sort of daughter/sister was his responsibility after Mia died, just like Pearl after he got her mother convicted, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, the Gramarye trial, from what I understood, was, what, two months after Iris's? I doubt much could have happened in-between, other than Phoenix becoming horribly arrogant. Although this IS shipping, so there's no way to be sure.


Personally, I think that AJ is an alternate universe where Phoenix lost the last case of JFA.
He was COMPLETELY out of character throughout the whole damn thing. (even the flashbacks)
And he never mentioned anyone close to him in AJ that was from the trilogy.

Hobo Phoenix: Oh, see this magatama thingy here? I have NO IDEA how I got it!

Me: *headboom* :uramidn:
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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zachariah Von-Karma wrote:
ChihiroAyasato wrote:
I personally find it frustrating and outrageous how so many people are against Phoenix x Iris.

Why? Because they're all convinced that Phoenix should be with Maya.

Sure, that's fine.

But that's no reason to TONGUE LASH/HATE/DESPISE Phoenix x Iris.

I swear, whenever I bring up the topic, everyone responds with 'GRAAAH!! STUFF IRIS! WE LOVE NICK X MAYA. IRIS CAN JUST GO JUMP OF A CLIFF OR GET HANGED AND DIE LIKE HER SISTER DID!'

Unimpressed, fans.

Unimpressed. :maggy:


Loving the enthusiasm for phoeris (my name for it)
but i agree, besides its more plausible as iris is older than Maya and therefore more suitable to be a girlfriend for him. Plus also, even if it was just nerves, everytime Pearls mentioned anything of emotional feelings like that Maya or Nick would always deny those claims.


That's because Nick x Maya is somewhat canon.

Check the official casebook plz.

I support Maya x Nick more than Iris x Nick.

BUT

I in NO WAY dislike Iris x Nick. :phoenix:
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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ChihiroAyasato wrote:
bijwmoc wrote:
In my opinion, Phoenix thought looking after Maya as he would for some sort of daughter/sister was his responsibility after Mia died, just like Pearl after he got her mother convicted, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, the Gramarye trial, from what I understood, was, what, two months after Iris's? I doubt much could have happened in-between, other than Phoenix becoming horribly arrogant. Although this IS shipping, so there's no way to be sure.


Personally, I think that AJ is an alternate universe where Phoenix lost the last case of JFA.
He was COMPLETELY out of character throughout the whole damn thing. (even the flashbacks)
And he never mentioned anyone close to him in AJ that was from the trilogy.

Hobo Phoenix: Oh, see this magatama thingy here? I have NO IDEA how I got it!

Me: *headboom* :uramidn:


I'm going to stop you right there Chihiro because you are quite wrong about that point.
While my AJ memory is fuzzy I do recall a certain easter egg.

In his hospital room after the car accident in case 2.
Examine the DVDs.
You'll see they are various 'Samurai' DVDs and maybe a 'Princess' one I forget, possibly spinoffs of the Original Steel Samurai show.
Phoenix comments that a friend keeps sending him them insisting he watches them.

There's your reference.

Plus why would he need to mention the magatama's origin? There's no one around when he uses it to explain it to really and since none of the people he interviews with it comment on it I presume he doesn't need to slam it in their faces to utilise it's power and simply taps it in his pocket or something.

Phoenix has also had a rather grilling haggard time so it's understandable for him to be a bit different.

Also where in the official casebook is PxM canon?
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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Phoenix is not OOC in the last case of AJ. The absence of his friends does not indicate this.

Anyway, nice soapbox, but the original topic was asking if you thought Phoenix pursued a relationship with Iris after T&T, not if the dirty, dirty Phoenix x Maya shippers believe their zeal justifies their hate for Iris, or if Phoenix is OOC.

While it's possible Phoenix and Iris attempted another go at their relationship, I really think their time is over. Maybe whatever they had back then worked in college; however, it was based on lies. Maybe they were both fine with that then, but over five years, they became much different people, at least different enough to recognize it isn't the best relationship to pursue.

And Phoenix x Maya is not canon. Period.
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Adrian in black wrote:
Phoenix is not OOC in the last case of AJ. The absence of his friends does not indicate this.

Anyway, nice soapbox, but the original topic was asking if you thought Phoenix pursued a relationship with Iris after T&T, not if the dirty, dirty Phoenix x Maya shippers believe their zeal justifies their hate for Iris, or if Phoenix is OOC.

While it's possible Phoenix and Iris attempted another go at their relationship, I really think their time is over. Maybe whatever they had back then worked in college; however, it was based on lies. Maybe they were both fine with that then, but over five years, they became much different people, at least different enough to recognize it isn't the best relationship to pursue.

And Phoenix x Maya is not canon. Period.


Well I would rebut all your arguments but I don't want to start an argument here so I'll just be mature and back off.

It's quite rude of you to say that Nick X Maya is not canon. 'Period'.

I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I said the same for Iris x Nick.

Then again, this is the internet.

What can I say?

When someone expresses their opinion.

They expect it to be shouted down by many people with different thoughts.

It's never the same with the internet and real life.

At least the people who talk to you in real life have hearts and consider other people's feelings before they thoughtlessly retort.

...Go ahead and erase my Phoenix OOC comments from your mind.

Though I do not regret in the slightest for posting them.

A forum is intended for expressing your own thoughts.

It's not an exam, where you will lose marks if you post something insignificant to the topic.

So, don't think I'll be fazed in the slightest by your remarks.

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Last edited by ChihiroAyasato on Sat May 05, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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My final comment on this forum would be:

That it's up to the fans decide.

I'm pretty sure that CAPCOM made the relationship scenario vague for a reason.

The fans are free to voice their own opinions without hate or abuse from any parties.

That is my firm belief, which shall not be waved aside by any individual. :shoe:
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ChihiroAyasato wrote:
My final comment on this forum would be:

That it's up to the fans decide.

I'm pretty sure that CAPCOM made the relationship scenario vague for a reason.

The fans are free to voice their own opinions without hate or abuse from any parties.

That is my firm belief, which shall not be waved aside by any individual. :shoe:


So you are just going to ignore what I said?

I was real curious as to what this 'casebook' evidence was, possibly since I owned them and hadn't noticed anything and was wondering if there was a story I missed.

Also saying "Phoenix and Maya is not canon" is just as rude as saying "Phoenix and Maya is canon" so I believe you owe an apology to other people here for your behaviour.


Anyway Phoenix and Iris I doubt would have worked, I imagine the trauma of having someone like Dahlia traumatise your life would make a relationship with someone who is identical to her problematic in the long run.
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Pierre wrote:
ChihiroAyasato wrote:
My final comment on this forum would be:

That it's up to the fans decide.

I'm pretty sure that CAPCOM made the relationship scenario vague for a reason.

The fans are free to voice their own opinions without hate or abuse from any parties.

That is my firm belief, which shall not be waved aside by any individual. :shoe:


So you are just going to ignore what I said?

I was real curious as to what this 'casebook' evidence was, possibly since I owned them and hadn't noticed anything and was wondering if there was a story I missed.

Also saying "Phoenix and Maya is not canon" is just as rude as saying "Phoenix and Maya is canon" so I believe you owe an apology to other people here for your behaviour.


Anyway Phoenix and Iris I doubt would have worked, I imagine the trauma of having someone like Dahlia traumatise your life would make a relationship with someone who is identical to her problematic in the long run.


Saying something is canon is in no way negatory.

So I see no fault in my comment.

However, if you really do insist, then I sincerely apologise.

Forums are harsh places, aren't they? :eh?:

And no, I didn't ignore your question.

If you read my comment clearer, you would have noticed that I said 'I will back off'.

Therefore, unless you want me to PM you the evidence.

I rather not say it.

I do not wish to receive another tongue lashing from two individuals who seem to be against me through thick and thin.
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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I could see Phoenix and Iris resuming their relationship after the end of T&T. It seems they still have feelings for each other even after all that happened, so I would say it's possible. Pearl would probably give them a hard time though.

ChihiroAyasato wrote:
I do not wish to receive another tongue lashing from two individuals who seem to be against me through thick and thin.

I'm sure no one has anything against you personally, but it's kinda your fault if you claim something is canon without giving any evidence. Because if there's no evidence, things are not canon by default.
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Wow............. :agia-shock: i didnt mean to cause this much controversy.
i just made a simple topic and i get this much debate? i´m impressed.

Now i will adress eachone of you:

to the lovely Ms.ChihiroAyasato - I thank you for your enthusiasm, but there is nothing that expicitly cements any relatioships between any of the characters, which is why i set this up to explore peoples theories.
But in AJ Nick does reference Maya twice. In case 2 he says that a close friend sent him the DVD´s, and in the final case when in the MASON system he says that he recieved the magatama from "a very dear friend" this can only be Maya.
And guys. be a bit nicer to the little lady please :haykitten:

to bijwmoc - I dont think that Phoenix was under any obligation. as its shown Mia´s death was completly unrelated to him, and at the time Maya was old enough, and living by herself. Meaning that a guardian was not necessary for her, an in the case of Pearls. Her mum was convicted fairly, so once again phoeninx was in no way obligated to care for her as she had both relatives and a home. Also 2 months is enough time to have a relationship (barely, but still enough)

to the diligent Pierre - Weve not always seen eye to eye, however we seem to post on the same topics and i enjoy our little debates, and in this case we agree on the point that AJ is canon and he does reference Maya in it. however in terms of the casebooks, i dont see anything that suggests any relations but capcom does leave it vague enough so that its up to us as a fan community to make our own interpretations.

to the sweet Adrian in black - thank you for bringing a bit of order back into this thread, that is all i have to say :pearl:

And to Jozerick - Thank you too. I agree with you totally on your view about phoenix and iris :garyuu:

thanks guys
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I believe in Phoenix x Iris, as I truly believe that they are made for each other. :redd:

However, I can also sorta see Phoenix x Maya, but to me, they appear like brother and sister. :edgy:

As you can see by my signature, I think that Maya is more suited to another character... :udgy:

I also agree with the 'AJ in another universe' theory. I can't see why else Phoenix would act so horribly, or why Maya and Iris wouldn't appear.
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I could see Phoenix x Iris. After he got disbarred he basically disappeared from the face of the earth and wasn't thought of as a good person due to the forged evidence, I can see if he lost communications with all his old friends. After he's cleared of forging evidence, though, might be a different story.
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Quote:

to the diligent Pierre - Weve not always seen eye to eye, however we seem to post on the same topics and i enjoy our little debates, and in this case we agree on the point that AJ is canon and he does reference Maya in it. however in terms of the casebooks, i dont see anything that suggests any relations but capcom does leave it vague enough so that its up to us as a fan community to make our own interpretations.


Er...I didn't realise I'd cause so much strife for you before, sorry if it seemed that way. Also Chihiro I really don't have anything against you, I was just curious as to whether there was evidence in the casebooks (though I think they are fancompilations anyway) so I could have a look-see. Though Phoenix does reference Maya (and possibly Edgeworth/Franciska as his 'overseas friend' who helped him set up the Mason system) but this 'alternate universe stuff' is for another topic I think.

Quote:
I could see Phoenix and Iris resuming their relationship after the end of T&T. It seems they still have feelings for each other even after all that happened, so I would say it's possible. Pearl would probably give them a hard time though.


That's right I forgot about Pearls, she might further put pressure on Phoenix not to go with Maya. Maya, even if she had no romantic interest, may still feel betrayed that Phoenix would pursue Iris romantically after all the hardship she caused both of them. Furthermore Iris was already partially responsible for the chaos that happened years ago lying to him when they originally went out. While I could understand if he forgave her I reckon it would take him some time before he could feel safe enough around her to continue their relationship. Plus rather than Phoenix just accepting her I dunno, he has changed a lot since his teenage incarnation he's not as naive or nice anymore maybe outside of the courtroom setting that would bother Iris who is still pretty sweet and charming.
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Pierre wrote:
Quote:

to the diligent Pierre - Weve not always seen eye to eye, however we seem to post on the same topics and i enjoy our little debates, and in this case we agree on the point that AJ is canon and he does reference Maya in it. however in terms of the casebooks, i dont see anything that suggests any relations but capcom does leave it vague enough so that its up to us as a fan community to make our own interpretations.


Er...I didn't realise I'd cause so much strife for you before, sorry if it seemed that way. Also Chihiro I really don't have anything against you, I was just curious as to whether there was evidence in the casebooks (though I think they are fancompilations anyway) so I could have a look-see. Though Phoenix does reference Maya (and possibly Edgeworth/Franciska as his 'overseas friend' who helped him set up the Mason system) but this 'alternate universe stuff' is for another topic I think.

Quote:
I could see Phoenix and Iris resuming their relationship after the end of T&T. It seems they still have feelings for each other even after all that happened, so I would say it's possible. Pearl would probably give them a hard time though.


That's right I forgot about Pearls, she might further put pressure on Phoenix not to go with Maya. Maya, even if she had no romantic interest, may still feel betrayed that Phoenix would pursue Iris romantically after all the hardship she caused both of them. Furthermore Iris was already partially responsible for the chaos that happened years ago lying to him when they originally went out. While I could understand if he forgave her I reckon it would take him some time before he could feel safe enough around her to continue their relationship. Plus rather than Phoenix just accepting her I dunno, he has changed a lot since his teenage incarnation he's not as naive or nice anymore maybe outside of the courtroom setting that would bother Iris who is still pretty sweet and charming.


It's alright, really. I was just having a bad day and said insensitive things.
To everyone I have offended, I am truly sorry. :lana:
Hopefully, we'll be able to continue this forum as friends. :maya:
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Quote:
I personally find it frustrating and outrageous how so many people are against Phoenix x Iris.
Why? Because they're all convinced that Phoenix should be with Maya.


:objection:
I do not think Phoenix should be in a relationship with Maya. Actually, I can't picture Maya in any relationship...

Regarding Phoenix and Iris, I don't think anything happened. Or that anything could happen. After all, they dated for about 8 months, during which time Phoenix thought he was dating somebody entirely else and Iris was faking who she was. That is not a good base to (re-)start a relationship on. If something were to come from it, I suppose they'd have to start from stratch, get to know each other as friends before it could become more. Also, what is the sentence for accessory to murder in the PW universe?

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I prefer Phoenix x Maya as they've been together for longer and have developed a strong friendship. I don't see them as brother and sister. Iris only came in at the end, and she was a bit weak imo. It was definitely hinted they had romantic feelings for each other and it could make a sweet pairing.
Rarar wrote:
I also agree with the 'AJ in another universe' theory. I can't see why else Phoenix would act so horribly, or why Maya and Iris wouldn't appear.


I agree, even if Maya is "busy being Master in Kurain" (also, Maya didn't seem to care lots for spiritual training...) she would be able to find time sometimes to visit Phoenix, or vice versa. She did say in the credits of T&T that she was going to be Master AND work with Phoenix. I personally would have enjoyed her making a cameo appearance in AJ talking to Phoenix.
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CatMuto wrote:
Also, what is the sentence for accessory to murder in the PW universe?


6 months.

Bunnylover4 wrote:
I prefer Phoenix x Maya as they've been together for longer and have developed a strong friendship. I don't see them as brother and sister. Iris only came in at the end, and she was a bit weak imo. It was definitely hinted they had romantic feelings for each other and it could make a sweet pairing.


I understand the idea people have about Phoenix and Maya being a good couple, I myself would not rule it out, however you guys have to understand that not all long-term friendships magically blossom into love. If I go live with my aunt for 3 years and we end up getting along well, I sure as hell wouldn't date her anyway. Maya is perky and randomly immature most of the time but when it counts, she can be more adult than even Mia herself, and this can be an admirable trait for some and a bad character for others, it all would depend on how Phoenix would face this.

That's why I don't give a damn about pairings. In my opinion, Phoenix and Iris is the most sensible one, because even if Phoenix saw some of Dahlia in her, we all know he has a very freaking big heart and maybe has found a way to fix things, and Iris' dialogue during the credits seem to hint towards that. However, we do know also that he starts AJ single. So who knows? Maybe there was no pairing after all and Phoenix has been a Forever Alone hobo all along.

There's really no point in arguing over vague relationships this heatedly.
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There's also the matter of Phoenix being seven years older than Maya.

Anyways, I sincerely doubt anything came of that. Iris was likely in jail for at least a year or so after messing with the scene of the crime(although it could have been less if Phoenix defended her and got her sentence reduced). At any rate, Phoenix clearly isn't in a relationship with anyone in AJ, so it seems unlikely.

Something could have happened in the seven years between Wright's disbarment and AJ, but we'll never know.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
There's also the matter of Phoenix being seven years older than Maya.


Age difference doesn't matter much, though, when you consider Gumshoe and Maggey, or Furio Tigre and Viola, or even Plum and Winfred Kitaki.

Also, Maya is legal from JFA on... (not that I ship them, but I'm just saying)
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Age difference doesn't matter much, though, when you consider Gumshoe and Maggey, or Furio Tigre and Viola, or even Plum and Winfred Kitaki.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Gumshoe and Maggey was a mutual relationship. It kinda seemed to me like a rather odd one sided fantasy of his, and Maggey seemed completely clueless about it. Sort of like Gumshoe's reaction to meeting Mia for the first time(albeit without the female being unaware).

I don't believe Tigre and Viola were ever lovers, either(at least, we know for sure Viola never loved Tigre, as evidenced by the T&T ending). Whatever relationship they had was sort of forced upon them by the accident involving the scooter and the...one million dollar surgery...

Speaking of which, out of all the unbelievable things that have happened so far in Ace Attorney, that million dollar surgery still tops them all for me.

As for the Kitakis...I'm not even going to try to argue against that. That situation is far too bizarre for me to even begin to try and understand. :p

It'd be like going into the background of Udgy's marriage and attempting to dissect the logic behind that.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Gumshoe and Maggey was a mutual relationship. It kinda seemed to me like a rather odd one sided fantasy of his, and Maggey seemed completely clueless about it. Sort of like Gumshoe's reaction to meeting Mia for the first time(albeit without the female being unaware).

I don't believe Tigre and Viola were ever lovers, either(at least, we know for sure Viola never loved Tigre, as evidenced by the T&T ending). Whatever relationship they had was sort of forced upon them by the accident involving the scooter and the...one million dollar surgery...


Whether or not you personally believed a relationship was valid is not the point. It's that age difference isn't a barrier to relationships in the AA universe. In fact, the only time anyone seemed to be bothered by an age difference was when one of the people was underage (Dahlia).

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As for the Kitakis...I'm not even going to try to argue against that. That situation is far too bizarre for me to even begin to try and understand. :p


What is this 'bizarre situation' you speak of? Winfred Kitaki got married to a woman who was fourteen years his junior. If that fact confuses you in any way, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Whether or not you personally believed a relationship was valid is not the point. It's that age difference isn't a barrier to relationships in the AA universe. In fact, the only time anyone seemed to be bothered by an age difference was when one of the people was underage (Dahlia).

Er, actually, it is the point. If the relationship was not a relationship at all, and instead some bizarre desire to "hold someone while they're asleep because they look cute," such as Gumshoe feels towards Maggey, then yes, it is quite important.

Remember we're discussing actual relationships here, not fantasies.

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What is this 'bizarre situation' you speak of? Winfred Kitaki got married to a woman who was fourteen years his junior. If that fact confuses you in any way, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I was referring to the Kitakis as a whole being a rather bizarre family(aka being self proclaimed gangsters that operate in public, having a son that wears a "Bad Badger" shirt, and having a leader that sells muffins).
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Er, actually, it is the point. If the relationship was not a relationship at all, and instead some bizarre desire to "hold someone while they're asleep because they look cute," such as Gumshoe feels towards Maggey, then yes, it is quite important.

Remember we're discussing actual relationships here, not fantasies.

I was referring to the Kitakis as a whole being a rather bizarre family(aka being self proclaimed gangsters that operate in public, having a son that wears a "Bad Badger" shirt, and having a leader that sells muffins).



Not to sound negative, but phoenix's relationship with Iris/Dahlia was directly confirmed, as was Mia and diego's.


But on the subject of Gumshoe and maggey, i think the end of case 3 of T&T you could say is the start of the mutual relationship, plus in AAI during the first case i think its quite clear that Maggey is aware of gumshoe's affection as seen when Jacques is trying to frame maggy, he and maggey have the argument about who was really guilty trying to protect the other. (unless you love someone you wouldnt implicate murder on yourself)


As for the kitaki situation it is not weird at all. As is said in game "We are community oriented gangsters." which basically means they are independent civil workers. plus during the credits Winfred explains how they are giving up the gangster business to focus on a legit living after the corruption of the family doctor and the near death of their son. (logical behaviour)
(and seriously the bad badger was an established member of the badger gang, he could have got it as a souvenir when he went to gatewater land with daddy XD )
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
Whether or not you personally believed a relationship was valid is not the point. It's that age difference isn't a barrier to relationships in the AA universe. In fact, the only time anyone seemed to be bothered by an age difference was when one of the people was underage (Dahlia).

Er, actually, it is the point. If the relationship was not a relationship at all, and instead some bizarre desire to "hold someone while they're asleep because they look cute," such as Gumshoe feels towards Maggey, then yes, it is quite important.

Remember we're discussing actual relationships here, not fantasies.


No, it isn't the point.

You implied that Phoenix being involved with Maya would be an issue due to the seven year age difference. I am saying that this isn't necessarily the case.

Whether or not Gumshoe got with Maggey in AA doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I don't just mean the fact that Maggey has no problem with dating older men. If you can cite, at any one point, when age difference became the reason Gumshoe stopped short of pursuing Maggey, I'll drop this right now.)

And whether or not you believe Viola's relationship with Furio Tigre was valid doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I stated that YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION on their relationship status isn't important due to this reason. I should also add that even if some AA fan, an outside party, didn't think it was for real, Viola DID for a time, at least until she stopped lying to herself about Tigre's feelings toward her.)

Quote:
Quote:
What is this 'bizarre situation' you speak of? Winfred Kitaki got married to a woman who was fourteen years his junior. If that fact confuses you in any way, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I was referring to the Kitakis as a whole being a rather bizarre family(aka being self proclaimed gangsters that operate in public, having a son that wears a "Bad Badger" shirt, and having a leader that sells muffins).


In other words, a comment that has nothing to do with the topic. But I'll admit it's a good way to ignore the third couple I brought up. You do know Plum and Winfred were married, right? Just checking.
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In other words, a comment that has nothing to do with the topic. But I'll admit it's a good way to ignore the third couple I brought up. You do know Plum and Winfred were married, right? Just checking.


I'll just interject with something I thought he meant instead of it just being nothing.

Perhaps he's implying that seeing how he is a member of the mafia, the marriage may not entirely have been through choice....it could've been for political reasons between mafia families or something...because 14 years is QUITE the distance, Plum you Goldigga.
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Whether or not Gumshoe got with Maggey in AA doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I don't just mean the fact that Maggey has no problem with dating older men. If you can cite, at any one point, when age difference became the reason Gumshoe stopped short of pursuing Maggey, I'll drop this right now.)

Yet again I will go back to the original topic being here: Whether a relationship between Maya and Phoenix would ever happen.

Notice that we are not debating whether or not Phoenix would ever want to have a relationship with Maya or not(which he pretty much clearly never brings up, as opposed to obvious instances where he does get noticeably embarrassed/emotional in front of Mrs. Delite or Iris.

If we were arguing whether or not Phoenix could possibly be attracted to Maya, you argument would hold water. However, the case is whether or not they would get into a relationship. And short of some sort of traumatic series of events, the answer is likely no(I'll expand upon this in a minute).

Quote:
And whether or not you believe Viola's relationship with Furio Tigre was valid doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I stated that YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION on their relationship status isn't important due to this reason. I should also add that even if some AA fan, an outside party, didn't think it was for real, Viola DID for a time, at least until she stopped lying to herself about Tigre's feelings toward her.)

Couple of things here:

First off, there was never any sort of official relationship between Viola and Tigre. The only thing that is mentioned is that Tigre was an "object of affection," for Viola. Viola lied to herself that Tigre saved her out of love for her, and likely developed a crush on him subsequently.

Which brings me back to the "traumatic event" thing I referenced earlier. Viola was directly brought into a state of...attraction, shall we say, to Tigre because she lied to herself about his intentions. In other words, something crazy where she viewed him as a good hearted man who saved her was the cause of their relationship.

"Now, wait. Maya gets saved by Phoenix in the courtroom plenty of times."

Which is true. However, Maya goes through all of these events and is saved by Phoenix during these four instances and never shows any hint of desire for a relationship towards him. In Viola's instance, she was fooled into believing a lie after one time. Maya has been through four, and still hasn't changed her opinion on Phoenix. So that seems a bit out of the question.

In short, outside of a traumatic event or bizarre circumstances, a relationship between people of that age difference is very rare.

Quote:
In other words, a comment that has nothing to do with the topic. But I'll admit it's a good way to ignore the third couple I brought up. You do know Plum and Winfred were married, right? Just checking.


Quote:
I'll just interject with something I thought he meant instead of it just being nothing.

Perhaps he's implying that seeing how he is a member of the mafia, the marriage may not entirely have been through choice....it could've been for political reasons between mafia families or something...because 14 years is QUITE the distance, Plum you Goldigga.

And we have a winner!

Mafia/Gang marriages, like the one involved here, are regularly done in a fashion similar to ancient kingdoms: That being that guys/girls of different powerful factions frequently marry in order to strengthen relationships between the two groups and also to gain power.

It's fairly safe to assume that neither Phoenix nor Maya would have the Mafia as a reason guiding their actions.
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But on the subject of Gumshoe and maggey, i think the end of case 3 of T&T you could say is the start of the mutual relationship, plus in AAI during the first case i think its quite clear that Maggey is aware of gumshoe's affection as seen when Jacques is trying to frame maggy, he and maggey have the argument about who was really guilty trying to protect the other. (unless you love someone you wouldnt implicate murder on yourself)

Gumshoe never attempted to take credit for the murder of Glen Elgard.

Quote:
Not to sound negative, but phoenix's relationship with Iris/Dahlia was directly confirmed, as was Mia and diego's.

Both were confirmed to have happened at some point pre T&T Case 1/post T&T case 4. I think the subject of debate here is what's happening present day(present by AA standards).
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Yet again I will go back to the original topic being here: Whether a relationship between Maya and Phoenix would ever happen.


Isn't the actual original topic about wether Phoenix and Iris are in a relationship or are not after T&T takes place? How come Maya and Phoenix' potentiality became a point here? Maya has nothing to do with Iris - at least, not in the sense of relationship regarding Phoenix yadda, yadda, let's stick to the two people in the Topic Title.

I repeat my opinion: No.

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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
But on the subject of Gumshoe and maggey, i think the end of case 3 of T&T you could say is the start of the mutual relationship, plus in AAI during the first case i think its quite clear that Maggey is aware of gumshoe's affection as seen when Jacques is trying to frame maggy, he and maggey have the argument about who was really guilty trying to protect the other. (unless you love someone you wouldnt implicate murder on yourself)

Gumshoe never attempted to take credit for the murder of Glen Elgard.

Quote:
Not to sound negative, but phoenix's relationship with Iris/Dahlia was directly confirmed, as was Mia and diego's.

Both were confirmed to have happened at some point pre T&T Case 1/post T&T case 4. I think the subject of debate here is what's happening present day(present by AA standards).


I think i know the topic I made, but i was simply pointing out the statement you made about relationships being fantasies by highlighting the real ones that had happened making the topic subject plausible.

Also i wasn't talking about the tres bien case, if you read i said in AAI case 1 with Jacques Portsman and the murder of Buddy "Jim" Faith.
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Also i wasn't talking about the tres bien case, if you read i said in AAI case 1 with Jacques Portsman and the murder of Buddy "Jim" Faith.

Ah. Looking back on the post, I only noticed the "T&T," and read "AAI," as just "AA."

My bad on Ace Attorney abbreviations.

Also I think it's fairly safe to say that Gumshoe is so infatuated with Maggey that he would do just about anything for her, regardless of whether she loves him or not(just going off of his comments during his T&T testimony before there was even a possibility that a relationship had begun).

Quote:
Isn't the actual original topic about wether Phoenix and Iris are in a relationship or are not after T&T takes place? How come Maya and Phoenix' potentiality became a point here?

Yes, the original issue of this topic was about Phoenix and Iris(and then Phoenix and Maya came up somehow, which led to an entirely new debate).

On the subject of Phoenix and Iris, I would say that's doubtful as well(I believe I've addressed this already, but in case I haven't...). Iris would have gotten out of jail after Phoenix had adopted Trucy, and Trucy never references Iris at all during AJ...so it seems much more likely that Iris and Phoenix went their separate ways and simply stayed in touch versus Iris getting out of jail, maintaining a secret relationship with Phoenix away from Trucy, and then breaking up later before AJ.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
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Whether or not Gumshoe got with Maggey in AA doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I don't just mean the fact that Maggey has no problem with dating older men. If you can cite, at any one point, when age difference became the reason Gumshoe stopped short of pursuing Maggey, I'll drop this right now.)

Yet again I will go back to the original topic being here: Whether a relationship between Maya and Phoenix would ever happen.


And your point that age difference is the reason it wouldn't.

You don't seem to recall that you made this point, and instead you went off tangent to argue about a bunch of other vaguely related to non-related things while ignoring all my valid counterpoints.

Kind of pointless to argue with someone who can't remember their own arguments, so I'll stop here. You enjoy yourself now.
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And your point that age difference is the reason it wouldn't.

That was one of many reasons I would advocate against Phoenix and Maya having a relationship, yes(others including the fact that the two have never shown any signs of affection towards each other through the first three AA games, as well as discussions between Phoenix and Maya in 3-2).

Quote:
You don't seem to recall that you made this point, and instead you went off tangent to argue about a bunch of other vaguely related to non-related things while ignoring all my valid counterpoints.

...this sentence has so many things wrong with it, but I will make an attempt to address all of them.

First off, I did not bring up the Phoenix/Maya debate, if that is what you are referring to. That was referenced in the original post, but the firestorm of debate on the issue started after the third post in this topic.

I did bring up the age point(that being that Phoenix and Maya are 7 years apart). I never claimed in any way that I did not make this point, or that I was somehow not the first to bring it up in this topic. So I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Secondly, my "tangents" about "a bunch of non-related things" in the last post were all referencing back to the original point of this topic, which was Phoenix and Iris having a possible relationship. I do attempt to reply to anyone and everyone on here who wishes to have a decent, friendly discussion.

Quote:
while ignoring all my valid counterpoints.

If by "all of my valid counterpoints," you mean three instances where people may or may not have had relationships with others in different age categories...you have a very odd definition of valid counterpoints, and an even odder definition of "ignore."

I addressed all of your points, going back and addressing every single argument you made in my second to most recent post(third to most recent if you count this one). Since you clearly missed my addressing these earlier, I will go back and list every single one of my responses in a quick, easy to find location.

Contention #1: "Whether or not Gumshoe got with Maggey in AA doesn't change the fact that age isn't an issue."

Response: Yes, it does. Just because someone older is attracted to someone younger does not qualify as a relationship by any definition of the word. All your example proves is that Gumshoe, as well as virtually anyone, has the ability to feel affection for those younger than himself.

Excellent point. Irrelevant to the debate at hand.

Contention #2: "Whether or not you believe Viola's relationship with Furio Tigre was valid doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue."

Answer: If the relationship is not valid in the first place, it most definitely does. This one should be incredibly obvious.

Let's say, for instance, that there was some man that was twenty or so years older than you, who thought you looked pretty. Simple enough example so far.

That does NOT by any means qualify a relationship, or even the potential for a relationship. You cannot simply say "well, one party has feelings for the other, so there must be potential for a relationship."

That constitutes a crush, not a relationship.

You also completely dropped my point about the traumatic event's effect.

I went over this extensively in one of my more recent posts: I suggest you go back and read it before you accuse me of ignoring your arguments.

Contention #3: "In other words, a comment that has nothing to do with the topic. But I'll admit it's a good way to ignore the third couple I brought up. You do know Plum and Winfred were married, right? Just checking."

I went over this even more extensively than the second, so unless you are reading one line of my posts and then stopping, I'm really not sure as to how you could have missed my response to this one.

Pierre knew what I was getting at, and he put it much more succinctly than I did in my most recent response, so, for the sake of brevity(you are welcome to read my entire explanation in my most recent post), I shall simply post his answer here.

Answer(from Pierre): "Perhaps he's implying that seeing how he is a member of the mafia, the marriage may not entirely have been through choice....it could've been for political reasons between mafia families or something...because 14 years is QUITE the distance, Plum you Goldigga."

Lastly, there is one final thing I would like to bring up here, that being that, as you yourself said:
Quote:
I stated that YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION on their relationship status isn't important due to this reason

Which is true. Your own personal opinion on whether Phoenix and Maya have a relationship(which appears to clearly be a gigantic yes considering how enthusiastically and rather rudely you have responded to my points so far) is not relevant. What matters is the simple facts, which we have listed here:

A: Maya and Phoenix did not date during their time working as lawyer and assistant during the three years of the first three AA games(as evidenced by Phoenix's and Maya's consistent denial to Pearl, as well as Phoenix's display of affection towards Iris). We also know that they did not date during the seven years inbetween T&T and AJ as well, as referenced by the fact that Trucy has no recollection of Maya, who would, by that time, be her mother, or at least a candidate to be her mother.

Not only do we have that, but we also have the discrepancy in age difference, which is simply one more argument to thrown on the pile of evidence against this relationship existing in the first place. Yes, people can have affections for people younger than them. Phoenix never shows any of this towards Maya, and I would argue that his relationship with Maya is closer to a father-daughter relationship than a boyfriend-girlfriend one(referencing how Mia consistently asks Phoenix to "watch over her," and how Maya asks Phoenix to act as her guardian so she can go to Hazakurain Temple).

While I will agree that it is technically possible for people to be in a relationship with a vast age difference, it is rare(as only two of these relationships actually exist inside the entire seires: One needing a brain surgery and a lot of lying to oneself to make possible, the other involving a gang marriage that was likely done for the sake of power/territorial and monetarial reasons).

Combine that with all of the preceding evidence, and you have a case against a Phoenix Maya relationship that is nearly impossible to argue against by any standards.

Quote:
Kind of pointless to argue with someone who can't remember their own arguments, so I'll stop here. You enjoy yourself now.

Your condescendingness(not a real word, I'm aware) is matched only by your overconfidence in your own ability to argue about fictional relationships on the internet.

Good day to you, and I sincerely hope you do decide to read all of my preceding posts before accusing me of whatever you plan to next.
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Adrian in black wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
Whether or not Gumshoe got with Maggey in AA doesn't change the fact that the age difference isn't an issue. (I don't just mean the fact that Maggey has no problem with dating older men. If you can cite, at any one point, when age difference became the reason Gumshoe stopped short of pursuing Maggey, I'll drop this right now.)

Yet again I will go back to the original topic being here: Whether a relationship between Maya and Phoenix would ever happen.


And your point that age difference is the reason it wouldn't.

You don't seem to recall that you made this point, and instead you went off tangent to argue about a bunch of other vaguely related to non-related things while ignoring all my valid counterpoints.

Kind of pointless to argue with someone who can't remember their own arguments, so I'll stop here. You enjoy yourself now.


Hey now Adrian I have to agree with the Blargman, there's no excuse for such condescention the least you could do is pay people the proper respect I'm sure you've never made mistakes before and simple misunderstandings have occured.

If you can't debate without becoming snarky and insulting don't do it at all Adrian.
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Well that escalated quickly.

Thank you Pierre for bringing order back to this thread.

Although it is indeed a weak argument, back on my original topic of if Phoenix and Iris had a relationship after T&T, could it not be plausible that they had one in between the ending of T&T when she says he regularly visited, and the case that cost him his badge?

seeing as the case is after maya took on the role of Master (due to her absence) and as Blaarghman said iris would have been released as she was only in detention. so inbetween that time there could have been something.
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Quote:
Although it is indeed a weak argument, back on my original topic of if Phoenix and Iris had a relationship after T&T, could it not be plausible that they had one in between the ending of T&T when she says he regularly visited, and the case that cost him his badge?

seeing as the case is after maya took on the role of Master (due to her absence) and as Blaarghman said iris would have been released as she was only in detention. so inbetween that time there could have been something.

...hmm...I don't recall ever commenting on the in-between time of 3-5 and Phoenix's last trial, but maybe I mistyped somewhere.

At any rate, unless they had a relationship composed entirely of prison visitations, that's unlikely. If you'll recall at the end of T&T, the Judge told Iris that she would be tried for being an accomplice to murder and rearranging the crime scene...so she was likely in jail for a while.

Of course, maybe Phoenix defended her and got her out.

Would kind of be an even sadder story if he got her out of jail and they broke up less than two months later, though.

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 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Defendant's Lobby » Hazakurain (GS3)

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