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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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Wasn't it mentioned in a different thread that the AA Universe's sentence for being an accomplice to murder was 6 months prison? So Iris would've been in jail the entire time (even if Phoenix had defended her, I doubt they'd have let her out in less than 2 months) - and I have to say, regular prison visits do not count as something that can be called a relationship, in my book. If you do call that a relationship, it's very sad.

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CatMuto wrote:
Wasn't it mentioned in a different thread that the AA Universe's sentence for being an accomplice to murder was 6 months prison? So Iris would've been in jail the entire time (even if Phoenix had defended her, I doubt they'd have let her out in less than 2 months) - and I have to say, regular prison visits do not count as something that can be called a relationship, in my book. If you do call that a relationship, it's very sad.

C-A



Well...I'd argue that people do visit people in prison as a means of continuing a relationship.
In the end regular prison visits mean more as you provide happiness to a person who hardly gets to see you. You are limited in time so if you manage to visit them with some regularity it shows more commitment than ever to a relationship rather than forgetting about them and losing contact while in prison.

Hell you may as well say long distance relationships don't count as something considering the amount of actual contact there are in both but regardless I think visiting someone regularly in prison with romantic intent still counts as a relationship.
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Here's the thing, though. Most "long term" relationships are relationships that originally begin as short term, and then continue long term after one or both of the members involved moves a long distance away. It's fairly rare that people who can't come into contact with each other frequently(and I mean that with the least amount of innuendo possible) start any sort of relationship whatsoever.

While Phoenix and Iris did date at one point, it had been...six years, I believe, since they had last dated? I dunno. It kinda seems odd like they'd just start anew right out of the blue, especially if one of them was in confinement.

I expect they remained close friends until Iris got out of jail six months later, and since they were clearly not dating after that, it seems unlikely that they would have dated in jail but not out of it.
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Conjugal visits FTW?

Pierre, what you say is just part of the huge debate - What exactly counts as a relationship?
Is it going out to places - is that just a hook up meeting or a real relationship, with all romantic intentions on both sides and potential future plans? Or saying that you are dating, but what you actually do is nothing different than what friends do? Heck, I have been a couple with my bf for a long time now and we haven't had "dates" yet. He says we are dating, so our next anniversary is 5 years. I say, with no dating, "dating" is the wrong term. However, I say we are together, as we do plan to get married eventually and all that.

It's just another thing that differs from person to person and their definition of relationships.

As for Iris not being mentioned at any time in 4-4, well, I dunno it doesn't seem like Phoenix is the kind to put in a mention of Trucy's 7-years-ago that he sees a lot of this black-haired woman and does that make her Trucy's new mommy. Whatever the MASON system is, although I think it's merely a scenario-hologram, it would be weird to put something like that in when the point of the entire thing is to get the connections.

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Quote:
As for Iris not being mentioned at any time in 4-4, well, I dunno it doesn't seem like Phoenix is the kind to put in a mention of Trucy's 7-years-ago that he sees a lot of this black-haired woman and does that make her Trucy's new mommy.

I don't think I ever specifically referenced the Mason System, only that it would be odd for Trucy to have not known about Iris had Phoenix and her dated.
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title

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ChihiroAyasato wrote:
It's quite rude of you to say that Nick X Maya is not canon. 'Period'.


But... Phoenix/Maya isn't canon. I'm a Phoenix/Maya fan, too, but come on, now. You're deluding yourself.

As for Phoenix/Iris... I, personally, don't think he had a relationship with Iris. It would be pretty adorable, though, and I wouldn't mind if he did. But if they did have a relationship, then... they'd have broken up before AJ, of course.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
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As for Iris not being mentioned at any time in 4-4, well, I dunno it doesn't seem like Phoenix is the kind to put in a mention of Trucy's 7-years-ago that he sees a lot of this black-haired woman and does that make her Trucy's new mommy.

I don't think I ever specifically referenced the Mason System, only that it would be odd for Trucy to have not known about Iris had Phoenix and her dated.


I never said you did.
But Trucy does talk, present-time, about getting a New Mommy. So it could be that Phoenix dated somebody at some point during the 7 years and Trucy maybe called her "mommy" - wether for the sake of hilarity or because she hoped it to become true.

I'm not saying it's impossible that Phoenix and Iris dated, I just don't think it'd be immediately post-T/T.

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But Trucy does talk, present-time, about getting a New Mommy. So it could be that Phoenix dated somebody at some point during the 7 years and Trucy maybe called her "mommy" - wether for the sake of hilarity or because she hoped it to become true.

I'm pretty sure the "new mommy" she was referring to would be someone to replace Thalassa.

Oh well. At any rate, there's no way to prove whether they did or didn't, and there's very little information concerning what Phoenix did during the 7 years in-between the Gramarye trial and AJ, so I'll simply leave it at "part of the reason I don't believe in potential relationships unless there's some evidence supporting it in the first place."

:kissy: The other part is that I find this emote disturbing.
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You Feeniris fans are disgusted by the Phoenix/Maya fans for blindly hating feeniris. As for me, I'm disgusted by you guys taking this pairing so strongly, saying that those two should've got married and have kids, for me it's like no, just no, last time I checked, romance isn't that easy, and if Phoenix and Iris's relationship was really that easy in terms of romance, then I would be even more disgusted by that pairing even more than I already am, since I am picky about romance stories.

Personally, I don't think Capcom was planning on making Phoenix and Iris's relationship a big thing, plain and simple. And you guys would probably argue that Capcom probably isn't planning on making Phoenix and Maya lovers, and I feel mature enough to accept that Phoenix/Maya may not happen in the end. However, the reason why we Phoenix/Maya fans love our pairing so much is the bond Phoenix and Maya had that only got stronger in T&T and is hinted to still be quite strong in AJ.

As for the question on whether or not Phoenix and Iris dated after T&T, I say it's probably possible. I think one possibility is that they could've dated but it may have not worked out seeing how Iris is not mentioned in AJ and Phoenix is single. Either that or there could've been no relationship at all, regular jailhouse visits don't exactly equal relationship or romance, maybe they were just trying to get on better terms with each other.

If you Feeniris fans feel offended by my post, I apologize. Even though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly peeved at you guys, I don't want to start a shipping war because I hate those, I think they are immature. We should try to be mature and admit that the Ace Attorney series isn't centered around romance.
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Emiko Gale wrote:
You Feeniris fans are disgusted by the Phoenix/Maya fans for blindly hating feeniris. As for me, I'm disgusted by you guys taking this pairing so strongly, saying that those two should've got married and have kids, for me it's like no, just no, last time I checked, romance isn't that easy, and if Phoenix and Iris's relationship was really that easy in terms of romance, then I would be even more disgusted by that pairing even more than I already am, since I am picky about romance stories.

Personally, I don't think Capcom was planning on making Phoenix and Iris's relationship a big thing, plain and simple. And you guys would probably argue that Capcom probably isn't planning on making Phoenix and Maya lovers, and I feel mature enough to accept that Phoenix/Maya may not happen in the end. However, the reason why we Phoenix/Maya fans love our pairing so much is the bond Phoenix and Maya had that only got stronger in T&T and is hinted to still be quite strong in AJ.

As for the question on whether or not Phoenix and Iris dated after T&T, I say it's probably possible. I think one possibility is that they could've dated but it may have not worked out seeing how Iris is not mentioned in AJ and Phoenix is single. Either that or there could've been no relationship at all, regular jailhouse visits don't exactly equal relationship or romance, maybe they were just trying to get on better terms with each other.

If you Feeniris fans feel offended by my post, I apologize. Even though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly peeved at you guys, I don't want to start a shipping war because I hate those, I think they are immature. We should try to be mature and admit that the Ace Attorney series isn't centered around romance.


I imagine it's hard for them not to be offended when you say you are disgusted in them for an opinion.

Save you disgust for serious opinions like those who think homosexuals should be stoned amongst other serious ones.
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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I guess I'll never understand why people feel the need to fiercely defend pairings like they're Brazil x Argentina on the World Cup Finals.

Just lighten up guys. Opinions exist and differ.
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Frankly, I don't want it to happen, but it doesn't mean I will go ham if it does. Not done with the game, so I'll just have to wait and see :D :udgey:
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I can't imagine Phoenix in a relationship. Dunno why so don't ask me. He should be a loving single father. :godot:
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Mary Faraday wrote:
I can't imagine Phoenix in a relationship. Dunno why so don't ask me. He should be a loving single father. :godot:


Precisely. Him randomly becoming a single father are all kinds of awesome.
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Fist of Justice wrote:
Mary Faraday wrote:
I can't imagine Phoenix in a relationship. Dunno why so don't ask me. He should be a loving single father. :godot:


Precisely. Him randomly becoming a single father are all kinds of awesome.


He's just extremely fitted for being a father.
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I'd bet he's known as the "cool dad" among Trucy's friends. xD
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That's for sure! :godot:
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Probably, but not right away. He'd have to wait for her to get out of prison of course but there was definitely some mutual interests from both sides anyway.
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Ras_Prosecutor wrote:
Probably, but not right away. He'd have to wait for her to get out of prison of course but there was definitely some mutual interests from both sides anyway.


Welcome! Thats a nice edit in your avatar by the way, though I think he needs a more severe expression to look less like "Phoenix".

What was Iris going to Prison for again? I didn't think her crimes were serious enough were they? She didn't do the murdering did she?
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Pierre wrote:
Ras_Prosecutor wrote:
Probably, but not right away. He'd have to wait for her to get out of prison of course but there was definitely some mutual interests from both sides anyway.


Welcome! Thats a nice edit in your avatar by the way, though I think he needs a more severe expression to look less like "Phoenix".

What was Iris going to Prison for again? I didn't think her crimes were serious enough were they? She didn't do the murdering did she?

She assisted in Godot's plan and tampered with the body, so at most she could be charged with being an accomplice to murder. I know Adrian was out in only a few months, but Iris was more directly involved in the crime, so her sentence may vary.
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Pierre wrote:
Ras_Prosecutor wrote:
Probably, but not right away. He'd have to wait for her to get out of prison of course but there was definitely some mutual interests from both sides anyway.


Welcome! Thats a nice edit in your avatar by the way, though I think he needs a more severe expression to look less like "Phoenix".

What was Iris going to Prison for again? I didn't think her crimes were serious enough were they? She didn't do the murdering did she?

Thank I appreciate it.

She admitted to being an accomplice in Ms. Elise's murder. Specifically she collected the body, moved it to hazakura temple, wiped and concealed the real murder weapon, and stabbed the body. Sounds like a lot but Adrian did the same and she got out in a couple months so I'm sure Iris would get similar treatment.
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Perhaps Iris left to do some soul searching after she got out of prison. After all, the majority of her life, she was never her own person. Maybe she thought she needed to establish who she was before she and Phoenix could ever get into a serious relationship.

Sadly, I don't think this topic will ever be brought up in a future game. The only canon relationships are Diego/Mia and Ron/Desirée (not counting crushes like Gumshoe/Maggey or relationships that are left ambiguous like Phoenix/Dollie).

Kind of wish they would bring it up in an offhand manner (that is, not make an entire plotline out of it), just because it would make the characters seem somewhat more normal. Heck, that could make for some amusing dialogue if a scene mentioned Trucy had a boyfriend and Phoenix was being a stereotypical overprotective dad.
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I feel sometimes I've the only one who doesn't mind that it's never been addressed nor even believed that even a throw away line is warranted for it. I have always been of the opinion that the one line from the credits was a little overblown anyway. There was nothing really to seriously suggest that Phoenix sought a romantic relationship with her again nor would it really have been healthy for him to do so.

No, it's much better this way because it's not like Iris she bring anything to the series as it stands. I've always had trouble picturing how she would fit into Phoenix's life as it stood at the end of T&T and I have trouble seeing it even more so now we're on the DD era.

But as I said, having played the games again I don't really think there was any serious suggestion they would rekindle their relationship outside of Phoenix getting his customary slap from Pearl.
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:objection:
Whoa there, peanut gallery. What's with the shipping war verbal violence? There's no need for that!
However, I should notify the people saying that 7 years is a deal breaker... while 7 years shouldn't be too much of a difference when it comes to love, it ESPECIALLY isn't much of a difference in Japan. So "don't go judging based on your narrow-minded cultural assumptions." The cultural context is key.
That being said, I'd say Phoenix/Iris has a lot of merit to it, even though I don't really prefer it (my personal reason being that I think Iris is too bland for Phoenix). Still, there's no point in arguing this intensely over something like this? What do you hope to accomplish? It won't change anything...
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No...after those 6 months were over Iris went right back to serve the fey family under Bikini, with whom she respected and loved as a mother.

All you IrisXPhoenix shippers need to get something. Iris should NEVER go back into a relationship with Phoenix. I know that seems harsh. But her personality would be DISASTROUS for her. She would become too dependent on him, and expect him to make all her decisions for her...Hell I don't think she's good for anyone as she is. If you think I'm being too harsh on her. Think about this. She was willing to steal, cover up a murder, and even take the fall for one JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED HER TO! She does exactly what she's told and never makes any decisions for herself. Someone who lets herself be used because she has no mind of her own shouldn't be in a relationship. She'll ether end up used or codependent. Nether is good for a healthy relationship. That is all I have to say on the matter.
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Ucha Nekome wrote:
All you IrisXPhoenix shippers need to get something. Iris should NEVER go back into a relationship with Phoenix.


Oops... I accidentally PM'ed you my response. Yeah... I'm kinda new to this... :P
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Never said Iris didn't have flaws to work through before entering a serious relationship with someone. But to say she should never be in a relationship with Phoenix because of said flaws seems like overkill.
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TheDoctor wrote:
Never said Iris didn't have flaws to work through before entering a serious relationship with someone. But to say she should never be in a relationship with Phoenix because of said flaws seems like overkill.


Hm... I hink it should be the other way around
PHOENIX shouldn't have a relationship with Iris. Her flaw, as well as her ambiguities and vagueness regarding her character, are WAY too great for Phoenix. In my opinion, she doesn't deserve him. However, that's slightly irrelevant ti tw topic in question (i.e., whether or not the relationship occured, regardless of whether or not it should). Despite my opinion on her character, I acknowledge the possibility that she had a eelationship with Phoenix after T&T. Still,consider this: by the time she got out of jail, Phoenix had already adopted Trucy, yet Trucy never mentions Iris. And yet, neither does she mention Maya. However, the difference between the two is that, after T&T, Iris was never mentioned AT ALL. She didn't even get ONE LOUSY REFERENCE.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind if the relationship took place, so long as it was broken up. I really can't see them lasting together... :P
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Iris is a pretty flawed character. People seem to have an idea that the real Iris is the same cutesy-poo act that Dahlia put on but that adorable little cutie doesn't exist. Iris may not be a bad person but she isn't really a good one either. Her biggest issue is that she does rather awful things and hides behind the fact that she "loved her sister" and genuinely admired Dahlia. Deep down, you get the sense that Iris wanted to be like her too, hence why she always wanted to help her.

An awful lot of the things that happened on the final court day of Bridge to the Turnabout were as a result of her actions. She admitted that she willingly let Dahlia take her place and then sat at the back of the cave so no one would know it was her in there and not Maya. Iris knew how important Maya was too Phoenix and yet she hid away, presumably knowing that she was sending Phoenix, Edgeworth, Franziska, Gumshoe and even Godot on a wild goose chase when she could have just come to those bars and told them what was going on.

In many ways, she and Dahlia would make brilliant Shakespearean villains. Two twins who on the face of it are just a bland good/evil duo but instead both have very twisted logic, sinister ideals and sick minds that fuel their crimes. Dahlia instigated the crimes but Iris was always a willing accomplice whose loyalty began and ended with her sister. That to me is much more compelling than any nonsense about whether or not she and Phoenix should have hooked up. Especially considering that the Trilogy also has a theme of sister-relationships.
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Ucha Nekome wrote:
All you IrisXPhoenix shippers need to get something. Iris should NEVER go back into a relationship with Phoenix. I know that seems harsh. But her personality would be DISASTROUS for her. She would become too dependent on him, and expect him to make all her decisions for her...Hell I don't think she's good for anyone as she is. If you think I'm being too harsh on her. Think about this. She was willing to steal, cover up a murder, and even take the fall for one JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED HER TO! She does exactly what she's told and never makes any decisions for herself. Someone who lets herself be used because she has no mind of her own shouldn't be in a relationship. She'll ether end up used or codependent. Nether is good for a healthy relationship. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Now you're just making things up. Iris didn't become an accomplice just because she was asked to. She did it to protect the future Master of Kurain.
Furthermore, to prove that she isn't as weak-willed as you claim... Iris was prepared to kill her own sister and sacrifice her own life if it meant to protect Phoenix. And the only reason she DIDN'T protect Phoenix in case 3-1 is because she didn't know of it.

So it's really the other way around. Iris has an incredibly strong will and can make her own decisions. It's just that she is willing to sacrifice herself for others.
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She did it to protect the future Master of Kurain.


Instead of, you know, telling said Master in what danger she was lying and trying to prevent it!

Quote:
It's just that she is willing to sacrifice herself for others.


Which is terrible! What kind of message does that give about her? She has so little self-worth that she thinks it's okay to sacrifice herself for the sake of others? Jeez, why would I want to date someone like that?

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I'm not at all trying to argue her intelligence or her worth as someone's girlfriend here. I was merely combatting Ucha Nekemo's point that Iris is weak-willed and does everything she is told without question.

But alright. I'll play along.

CatMuto wrote:
Instead of, you know, telling said Master in what danger she was lying and trying to prevent it!

I don't see the need to use a different color here, but besides that... I don't think Iris fully knew about the actual plan. She only knew the be on stand-by and await a call.

CatMuto wrote:
Which is terrible! What kind of message does that give about her? She has so little self-worth that she thinks it's okay to sacrifice herself for the sake of others?

Who said she has little self-worth? There are plenty of people who'd give their own lives for others but that doesn't mean they think little of themselves.

CatMuto wrote:
Jeez, why would I want to date someone like that?

This is even more besides the point. We are not talking at all about a relationship between you and Iris... Why did you even make this about yourself in the first place?
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Re: Does phoenix have a relationship with Iris after T&T?Topic%20Title
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Quote:
I don't see the need to use a different color here, but besides that... I don't think Iris fully knew about the actual plan. She only knew the be on stand-by and await a call.


It kinda became a thing on this forum that, if we are saying something really sarcastically, we put it in orange. And even so, that still doesn't change the stupidity of the plan. Godot has a stupid reason for not telling, Pearl is unfortunately a gullible child that is being used, but Misty? What is HER excuse for not telling HER OWN DAUGHTER THAT SHE'S IN MORTAL DANGER!?

Quote:
Who said she has little self-worth? There are plenty of people who'd give their own lives for others but that doesn't mean they think little of themselves.


I don't understand those people. What about basic survival instincts? I don't see the romance in sacrificing your life for someone else. After all, you'll be dead and knowing that you did that to do something for THEM could have a huge amount of issues. They could blame themselves for the fact that you're dead. They would be mourning. And, in my eyes, it just means one thinks their own life is worth NOTHING if they are so willing to throw it away.

Quote:
This is even more besides the point. We are not talking at all about a relationship between you and Iris... Why did you even make this about yourself in the first place?


I was pointing out why I would not date such a person. I generally only ship people that I can think "Okay I can see a relationship going on there" if I don't flat out think I only ship people who I think I would date (or find interesting).

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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
I don't see the need to use a different color here, but besides that... I don't think Iris fully knew about the actual plan. She only knew the be on stand-by and await a call.


It kinda became a thing on this forum that, if we are saying something really sarcastically, we put it in orange. And even so, that still doesn't change the stupidity of the plan. Godot has a stupid reason for not telling, Pearl is unfortunately a gullible child that is being used, but Misty? What is HER excuse for not telling HER OWN DAUGHTER THAT SHE'S IN MORTAL DANGER!?


I think we could sum it up as 'everything played out a lot better in their heads'.
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No, even Godot admits that his plan was stupid.

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Nurio wrote:
Ucha Nekome wrote:
All you IrisXPhoenix shippers need to get something. Iris should NEVER go back into a relationship with Phoenix. I know that seems harsh. But her personality would be DISASTROUS for her. She would become too dependent on him, and expect him to make all her decisions for her...Hell I don't think she's good for anyone as she is. If you think I'm being too harsh on her. Think about this. She was willing to steal, cover up a murder, and even take the fall for one JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKED HER TO! She does exactly what she's told and never makes any decisions for herself. Someone who lets herself be used because she has no mind of her own shouldn't be in a relationship. She'll ether end up used or codependent. Nether is good for a healthy relationship. That is all I have to say on the matter.

Now you're just making things up. Iris didn't become an accomplice just because she was asked to. She did it to protect the future Master of Kurain.
Furthermore, to prove that she isn't as weak-willed as you claim... Iris was prepared to kill her own sister and sacrifice her own life if it meant to protect Phoenix. And the only reason she DIDN'T protect Phoenix in case 3-1 is because she didn't know of it.

So it's really the other way around. Iris has an incredibly strong will and can make her own decisions. It's just that she is willing to sacrifice herself for others.

No, I'm calling her weak willed for defending a murderer without any reason to. She has no ties to Godot other then they had a plan together. One of the people participating ended up dead and guess who that person was. Misty Fey, the leader of Kurain.

If she really wanted to protect the future Master of Kurain she would have done so by TELLING HER! The plan Godot made was only for his own satisfaction, and nothing more. Which makes him a great and tragic villain. But Iris going along with it just makes her a stupid little tool. I'm gonna be honest. I hate her guts. Iris is a badly written plot point only made to make Phoenix right about Dahlia not being "herself" during the trial Turnabout Memories. Lets be honest here, she has done more than just go along with plans. Dahlia made her do a lot of horrific things and she never had the nerve to stand up to her. And now, after defending the murderer of Phoenix's best friend's mother's murder she has the gull to say, "I always loved you." Bitch please. But Phoenix is such a good guy, he only wanted to know he wasn't wrong to have assumed he was loved. That's all he wanted. In the end Iris deserves to spend the rest of her life as a nun in the mountains. She's serving the fey clan and is far away from anyone who could possibly be affected by her destructive behavior.
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CatMuto wrote:
And even so, that still doesn't change the stupidity of the plan. Godot has a stupid reason for not telling, Pearl is unfortunately a gullible child that is being used, but Misty? What is HER excuse for not telling HER OWN DAUGHTER THAT SHE'S IN MORTAL DANGER!?

Uhm, I think you're lost, buddy. This is a thread about Phoenix and Iris, not about Misty, Godot or Pearl. Or the plan involving them, no matter how stupid you think it is.
But I'll take this opportunity to point out I've taken notice you often feel the need to emphasize the stupidity of all characters or stories, whether it's related or not.

CatMuto wrote:
I don't understand those people.

Not much I can do about that, I'm afraid. This isn't something you can't rationally explain. It's a feeling. A drive.

CatMuto wrote:
What about basic survival instincts? I don't see the romance in sacrificing your life for someone else. After all, you'll be dead and knowing that you did that to do something for THEM could have a huge amount of issues. They could blame themselves for the fact that you're dead. They would be mourning. And, in my eyes, it just means one thinks their own life is worth NOTHING if they are so willing to throw it away.

Just because you are willing to expend your life does not mean you think it's worth nothing.
This analogy might sound strange, but... If I am willing to spend 500 dollars to buy a TV, it doesn't mean I think the 500 dollars is worth nothing. It just means I think the TV is worth 500 dollars.
The same goes for sacrificing yourself... If one thinks it does so much good, there are plenty of people who are willing to do it.

CatMuto wrote:
I was pointing out why I would not date such a person. I generally only ship people that I can think "Okay I can see a relationship going on there" if I don't flat out think I only ship people who I think I would date (or find interesting).

Maybe I am misunderstanding you here... Are you saying you only ship people you would date yourself?
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Going through these point by point...

Ucha Nekome wrote:
No, I'm calling her weak willed for defending a murderer without any reason to.

She didn't defend the murderer. The cover-up was to protect Maya! And that is exactly what Iris's part was in the plan. To play the cover-up to protect Maya.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
One of the people participating ended up dead and guess who that person was. Misty Fey, the leader of Kurain.

Was it ever mentioned that Iris even knew about Elise's real identity?

Ucha Nekome wrote:
If she really wanted to protect the future Master of Kurain she would have done so by TELLING HER!

But Iris didn't know the full plan. She only knew to be on stand-by for cover-up. What was she supposed to tell Maya?
"I'm not sure what it is, but your life may be in grave danger"

Ucha Nekome wrote:
But Iris going along with it just makes her a stupid little tool.

If her interest was to protect the future master, then she had all the reason to go along with the plan. Was it smart... No, I can't say it was. But it definitely isn't weak-willed of her just because she went along with the plan.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
Dahlia made her do a lot of horrific things and she never had the nerve to stand up to her.

Actually, Iris had planned out the kidnapping case together with Dahlia, if I am not mistaken. So Iris herself isn't entirely innocent here. It's not like Dahlia just waltzed over Iris.
And Iris DID have the nerve to stand up to Dahlia, what are you talking about? I just got done explaining how Iris was willing to kill her own sister and sacrifice her own life for Phoenix. If that doesn't count as standing up to her, then I don't know what is...
On top of that, she managed to get her way with Dahlia too, when she convinced to not immediately get rid of Phoenix but instead to try to get back the poison bottle by posing as her. If she was able to convince Dahlia to go along with that plan for 8 months, then I'd say she isn't weak-willed at all.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
And now, after defending the murderer of Phoenix's best friend's mother's murder she has the gull to say, "I always loved you."

A. She wasn't defending the murderer. She was covering up for Maya.
B. It's gall! Gall!
C. Miles made Iris promise to confess to Phoenix after it's all over. She's a woman of her word.

...Sorry for the double post. I only noticed Ucha Nekome's post later.
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Nurio wrote:
Going through these point by point...

Ucha Nekome wrote:
No, I'm calling her weak willed for defending a murderer without any reason to.

She didn't defend the murderer. The cover-up was to protect Maya! And that is exactly what Iris's part was in the plan. To play the cover-up to protect Maya.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
One of the people participating ended up dead and guess who that person was. Misty Fey, the leader of Kurain.

Was it ever mentioned that Iris even knew about Elise's real identity?

Ucha Nekome wrote:
If she really wanted to protect the future Master of Kurain she would have done so by TELLING HER!

But Iris didn't know the full plan. She only knew to be on stand-by for cover-up. What was she supposed to tell Maya?
"I'm not sure what it is, but your life may be in grave danger"

Ucha Nekome wrote:
But Iris going along with it just makes her a stupid little tool.

If her interest was to protect the future master, then she had all the reason to go along with the plan. Was it smart... No, I can't say it was. But it definitely isn't weak-willed of her just because she went along with the plan.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
Dahlia made her do a lot of horrific things and she never had the nerve to stand up to her.

Actually, Iris had planned out the kidnapping case together with Dahlia, if I am not mistaken. So Iris herself isn't entirely innocent here. It's not like Dahlia just waltzed over Iris.
And Iris DID have the nerve to stand up to Dahlia, what are you talking about? I just got done explaining how Iris was willing to kill her own sister and sacrifice her own life for Phoenix. If that doesn't count as standing up to her, then I don't know what is...
On top of that, she managed to get her way with Dahlia too, when she convinced to not immediately get rid of Phoenix but instead to try to get back the poison bottle by posing as her. If she was able to convince Dahlia to go along with that plan for 8 months, then I'd say she isn't weak-willed at all.

Ucha Nekome wrote:
And now, after defending the murderer of Phoenix's best friend's mother's murder she has the gull to say, "I always loved you."

A. She wasn't defending the murderer. She was covering up for Maya.
B. It's gall! Gall!
C. Miles made Iris promise to confess to Phoenix after it's all over. She's a woman of her word.

...Sorry for the double post. I only noticed Ucha Nekome's post later.


How does taking the fall for Godot help Maya? Answer me that. Godot is a murderer. He's a tragic murderer but he still came up with that plan for one reason and one reason alone. To kill Dahlia with his own hands. Had that been Pearl, he wouldn't have cared. Yet Iris helped him despite Maya's mother being killed by him. The only thing that plan did was get someone murdered and almost killed Maya. Anyone with a brain knows that. So I ask you WHY why would anyone in their right mind go along with it. Iris isn't in her right mind. She's a dependent fool who obediently follows someone if they say it will turn out ok. That's dangerous. She has no mind of her own. All she does is follow and follow. Never once did she take the reigns of her own destiny and decide for herself. Well there was that one time with Dahlia, but lets be real here, she should have realized how crazy Dahlia was before all this. She has a brain she should learn to use it. The only decision she has ever made for herself is to become a nun and help Bikini. And that's what she should continue doing. She attaches to people and follows them like a lost puppet with no will of it's own. She may be capable of loving others but that love is dependent. And now I will speak my final argument before dropping the matter. Godot said he should have gone to Phoenix to stop the plan. After all you need someone over the age of 21 to visit the shrine. In order to stop the whole thing Phoenix could have just told Pearls no and explained why. No one would get hurt, and no one would have died. Pearl would be safe from being hurt from her sensitive naivety, and Maya wouldn't have seen her mother die in front of her. While Godot admitted the only reason he didn't do that was for the sake of revenge and his resentment toward Phoenix, IRIS had no excuse. SHE SHOULD HAVE TOLD PHOENIX, MAYA, SOMEONE! Same goes for that boneheaded mother who was willing to "sacrifice herself" as well but in the end the two of them just looked like idiots going along with a plan that had little chance of success and actually involved Maya being in the dangerous place.
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Reading all this craziness about Godot's plan makes me almost want to pull a CinemaSins on the case.

For example:

1: I understand Godot's reason for planning it this way, but why the **** is Misty going along with it? Can't she see the obviously easier way of solving the problem? She wouldn't even have to reveal her identity, just warn her ****ing daughter of the ****ing danger she's in.

2: Also, I can see how Godot's plan, ill thought out as it is, could work out in the short term, but won't Maya be screwed if Morgan gets Pearl to try again at a later date? Nope, if you absolutely have to kill someone in order to save Maya, the logical choice is Pearl.

3: So, why is it Mia thinks to have Maya channel Dahlia while being locked up, but the thought never occurs to Misty? She could have imprisoned herself in the same cave, channeled Dahlia, and Morgan's plans would be temporarily postponed.

4: Was there really a need to mutilate Misty's corpse like that? I know you have to send her body across the ravine in order to hide the murder location, but once on the other side, why not simply throw her in the river?

5: That last sin raises the question of who thought up the idea to mutilate Misty's corpse. Was it Iris? If so, she's a ****ing moron for not seeing the obvious river solution. Was it Godot? If so, Iris is still a ****ing moron for not seeing the obvios river solution and adjusting his plan accordingly.

Etc...
-----------------
Oddly enough, despite all that, I still ship Phoenix and Iris on the basis of them being kind of a cute couple, but yeah, Iris has some major flaws to work through before that could remotely work out.
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