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Gyakuten Saiban 5: The Long and the Short of itTopic%20Title
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http://www.capcom.co.jp/gyakutensaiban/5/


It's been quite the adventure these past few days. While there's still more to come at TGS, the official site is now open, so it looks like for the moment the hype train is pulled into the station. Here's all we know about Gyakuten Saiban 5, for the Nintendo 3DS.



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The staff:

Shuu Takumi, who oversaw the first four Gyakuten Saiban games, will not play a major role in GS5's development. Instead, the game is being directed by Takeshi Yamazaki, produced by Motohide Eshiro, and its music will be composed by Noriyuki Iwadare - in short, the Ace Attorney Investigations team.



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The story:

One year has passed since the events of Apollo Justice, and once-Ace Attorney Phoenix Wright has returned to the courtroom - and just in time, as a bomb reduces the hallowed halls to rubble. Wright takes on the defense of high-schooler Shinobu Morizumi, a mysterious new partner at his side and the relative of an old foe across from him at the prosecutor's bench...



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The game itself:

Appropriate for its platform, Gyakuten Saiban 5 takes the main series into 3D for the first time, reminiscent of Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney. That said, the series isn't losing its trademark whodunnit 2D scenes, as you can see by the shot of the clearly completely innocent man above. Gameplay-wise, the action returns to the court, but cross-examination seems to have some extra twists which Capcom promises will be revealed in the future, including the ability to look for inconsistencies between a witness's mood and his or her testimony.



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The release schedule:

This one's still pretty up in the air. Famitsu listed no date for GS5, not even a '2013'. However, there's some good news: the game is confirmed to be coming to both North America and Europe. When, of course, is anyone's guess.



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The future:

The game will be shown off at TGS 2012. A roughly fifteen-minute demo of the game will be available, and new information is promised on Phoenix's new assistant. In addition, there will be a GS5 stage presentation with Eshiro and Yamazaki at 11:30AM JST on September the 22nd, which is 10:30 PM EDT on September the 21st. There will also be a repeat at 3:10PM JST on September the 23rd, which is 2:10 AM EDT on the 22nd.

On our side of things, C-R's Pick Your Prosecutor contest is in full swing.



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Useful C-R links:
The original thread, for those of you who missed the hype train first go around.
Eshiro and Yamazaki talk GS5, including Phoenix's shift in design, returning characters, 3D, the theme of the game, and even Dark Payne.
Localization confirmation comes in, and Pick Your Prosecutor gets some clarification.


And with that, folks... court is back in session.

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Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5: The Long and the Short of itTopic%20Title
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Do you see the black one...or the white?

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Gonna say this, but am I the only one who feels that the high school girl kinda looks like something out of a Studio Ghibli film? She vaguely reminds me of Sophie from Howl's Moving Castle.

All in all, this is awesome news and thanks so much Bolt for putting it all in one nice place so it's easy to find everything. Been a very long time since I've seen the forums this excited.
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CatMuto wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
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It's really bothering me. I want to know who the mysterious chick in yellow is! Still, it looks amazing. Thank you for posting. :D
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Hmmmmm.......
Spoiler:
That.....pic with the culprit...., is that bottom screen part of it? Can you interact with the intros or did this happen at the trial.....speculation, but if it is at court, the screen is Wrights point of view and the explosion happened in either the witness bench or Payne Trains Siblings bench 0_0


Also concerning the face expressions gimmick
Spoiler:
maybe they'll play a role where you will need to control Wrights expressions, it's a normal thing in the series that Expressions are everything, maybe this time the witnesses will be more aware of Wright's and will need you to try to trick them or to stay in a expression where they won't expect anything, but this is just
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^Actually, the interview In Famitsuu already made (in my mind) quite clear how the expression system will work (the original translation of the interview skimmed over that part for some reason, see my later post in this topic).

Edit: by the way, the defendant's family name is Morizumi, according to the website. The earlier scans didn't show a reading for her name, so I kinda gambled on which one they took (both Morisumi and Morizumi are correct readings for the name), but it's Morizumi it seems!
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I don't know how true this is, but ONM uk seem to think GS5 is coming out this year in Japan? http://m.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk ... 0&ns_fee=0

:shoe:
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That's based on nothing. Layton vs Ace Attorney is mostly likely to be released at the end of November (see this ad), but nothing has been said in regards to GS5.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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We need more emphasis on "completely innocent", I am thinking italics.
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Bolt Storm wrote:


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now call me crazy and chances are likely 99% that i'm wrong here (what else is new) buuuut...am i the only one seeing Paynes younger brother having similarities to the bomber?
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Ash wrote:
That's based on nothing. Layton vs Ace Attorney is mostly likely to be released at the end of November (see this ad), but nothing has been said in regards to GS5.


Sorry man, only pointing out what media has said, I wonder where they got their basis for that comment then?

And Bolt, I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the pictures, but I thought someone else had already jumped the gun on me..

:shoe:
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Fantastic news that it will come to Europe - thats unusual when not even a Japanese date has been set.
I wonder if it wll have some AAI style gameplay in there if the AAI team are working on this one?
Takumi could still play a SMALL role (maybe oversee the game) even if he doesnt actually work on it?
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Someone commented that the courtroom looks suspiciously similar the one in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney, which, if true, suggests there's a fair bit of sharing going on between the two projects.
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Quote:
The staff:
Shuu Takumi, who oversaw the first four Gyakuten Saiban games, will not play a major role in GS5's development. Instead, the game is being directed by Takeshi Yamazaki, produced by Motohide Eshiro, and its music will be composed by Noriyuki Iwadare - in short, the Ace Attorney Investigations team.


oh cool :edgy: ! I bought the first AAI, I remember not playing past the case 3 because I kind of got bored. HA HA HA HA HA HA..........haaahhhhhhhhuhhhh....
:payne:

Edit: Crosses Finger
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OK, first of all, yeah, I'm still alive. Ahaha. I had retreaded to Tumblr and a number of other Fandoms during the draught of AA news. That's said, here I am, ready to give my two cents on GS5. I thought I should do that much. I also didn't read through all the other threads, so excuse me if I am repeating stuf others already said.

First of all, while I enjoy how happy the Fandom is, I am still very skeptical regarding this entire thing for two large reasons. Those reasons being:

*)Post!Hobo Phoenix as main playable Character.

*)The AAI writting team.

Don't get me wrong. I want GS5 like all off you. But these two things in combination could possibly shape up to turn out catastrophic. Hopefully, they won't and I'm just being pessimistic. Still, let me explain.
As I already mentioned many times before, Takumi is a novelist at heart. You can tell: The way he writes, uses his characters, developes them, the subtlties, the emotion, the way all elements play together and make the story feel "alive"... It all overflows from a passion that only people who truly love to write can bring up. Yamazaki isn't a novelist. Yamazaki is a Game Director. Just that. His writing isn't "bad", but he misses many important things, that Takumi just has, the finer nounces, the careful, gradual character developement, how to make the dialouge funny and yet natural sounding... Yamazaki got the basics down, but he absolutely hasn't "mastered" scenario writing like Takumi has and that, saddly, hurt the GK games a lot, at least to me. While GK was superior to GS in most aspects EXCEPT for the writing, the writing is what really, really made me not like these games to same extent as the GS games. GK1 felt dull to me, the characters didn't stick on my mind. Kay felt like a character with great potential, but she was so misused. She was introduced too late, used in the wrong places and didn't really go through any true "developement". (Then again, neither did Trucy, but that wasn't because of the writing as much as due to her lack of chances to do so) At the end of the game, it felt like nobody had really learned anything or changed in any way and all the lessons felt tacked on. GK2 was better in the overall scenario and more interesting, but the quality of writing was horribly inconsistent and could go from stellar to horrible in less than two scene. I tried to get myself to like the game, but couldn't. I really tried to. I mean, there was so much awesome in it, I was baffled at how I could possibly not like it. But in the end, the game faced the same problems as GK2: The characters were either written solely around a gimmick (instead of having a gimmick written around the character, as it was the case in GS1-4) which makes them horribly flat and uninteresting, or they were written to comply with the Fanservice rather than having the Fanservice written to comply with THEM. (Compare what happens to Kay in GK2 with everything that ever happened to Maya or Ema. You will notice that for Maya and Ema, nothing ever felt unnatural, while with Kay in GK2, you had the feeling the poor girl was just a marionette on the strings of the autor, who must bend her personality to whatever whim he brings forth.) Even at it's worst, AJ at least still had Takumi's passion shine through and that pulled me in. The characters still felt like characters, not walking gimmicks. And even when the morals fell apart in-game, you could still tell they were at least TRYING to really get a point across. That's more than I can really claim about GK1. Maybe, kinda, sorta, somehow in GK2, but I'll argue that GK2 failed even more at believably getting it's point across than AJ did. And GK2 didn't even have to struggle with executive meddling like AJ did.

Long Story, short: Yeah, I don't like the AAI writing team a lot.

Now, this didn't bug me too much with the GK games though. They were spin-offs. They didn't hurt the main Universe a lot. Sure, Edgeworth's character was messed with a bit, but it was nothing truly harmful, nothing a player couldn't fix in their mind by interpreting and coming up with explanations for his sometimes slightly "off" behaviour. It wasn't a real problem.

THIS is GS5. THIS could turn into a real problem. With Phoenix moreso than with Apollo. With Apollo, the writers would have had a semi-blank slate to work with. They could have made him into the character they wanted, rather than getting him wrong or flanderizing him. (Because flanderization is exactly what happened to Edgeworth in GK, in my opinion.)

But Phoenix? Oh boy could this go wrong! Phoenix's character has evolved a LOT over the years. He never stayed completly the same over more than a game at a time. He's grown, changed, matured, gained new positive and negative attributes while dropping others... Trust me, he is NOT an easy character to get right. And Post!Hobo? Let me tell you, Post!Hobo Nick would likely be an ENTIRELY different character from Pre!Hobo Nick. Not at heart, necessarily, but at behaviour. Because he's changed a lot over years, he's learned to control and mask himself, how to manipulate people, how to betray everyone, even himself. Seriously, I'm worried for nothing more right now than the AAI Team flanderizing Nick into a parody of his GS3 self to the point that they absolutely ignore all the crap he went through and just act as if putting on a blue suit magically makes him a different person. That's not good writing, but it's, saddly, exactly the writing I'd expect from the AAI Team. And this would hurt Phoenix as a character, in my opinion and "dishonor" him just as much as the asspull badge-loss back in AJ did. They think they are doing him a favor by doing this, but they aren't. They repeat the same mistakes over a different route. It'd be sad to watch. Here's me hoping that I am just pessimistic and Nick will actually be grandiously written, but my hopes aren't up too high. The appeal of AA has always been that you're growing with the protagonist, but Nick should be more mature than all players by now. He has gone through so much, there's not much left you can do with him. I am afraid that this is just going to be a lazy (and from a character-developement illogical) rehash of his character arc during GS 1-3.

However, there are reasons for optimism and I'm really hoping that those reasons pay off.

There are some thing that give me hope that Yamazaki FINALLY took some hints from Takumi and actually improved his own writing to be closer in quality to the laters. Those things are as follows:

*)Phoenix Character Design. It's amazing. Just amazing. THIS is exactly the look I had in mind for Phoenix when I finished playing AJ and imagined him getting back his badge. This is what I knew he'd like to look like. It fits with his developement and his mindset. Of course, there is still the issue of them reusing all his old expressions (many of which are too childish for any future self of him I could imagine), but, who knows? Maybe those will be well used? Here is hoping. Most importantly, however, there's an important clue that Kazuya Nuri was instructed to take AJ very much into account when designing this Phoenix. And that'd be?

Image

Guys, look at the chain coming out of Nick's chestpocket. I compared it to the chain of his locket in AJ. They are identical. I am pretty sure that this isn't some fancy Pocket Watch or anything. It's Trucy's Locket. her picture. He's carrying a picture of his daughter in his breastpocket. This would be, like, the ultimate proof that the 7 years before AJ weren't forgotten. He's still thinking of her, even in court. In fact, it might be like a good luck charm to him, of sorts. Trucy's always with him, even when she can't watch his trials. :minuki:

*)Somewhat connected to that, the new girl. She struck me as odd in design from the very beginning. And not in a bad sense. Kazuya Nuri's character designs are usually very diverse. Even without hair, there'd be no chance of confusing Trucy for Ema or Alita or Vera. In fact, not even Kristoph and Klavier share identical facial features. Yet, look at the new girl. Her facial features are VERY reminiscent of Trucy. Not Maya, not Kay, not Ema, but Trucy. She is also somewhat comparable to Thalassa in all the same ways Trucy is. The assistant characters usually don't share simmilar facial features like that. The last time we had this was when Ema came around and the reason was that she needed to resemble Maya to trigger Nick's protector instincts. So, why does New Girl resemble Trucy?

That's not all, however. Like Trucy, she only wears one earring, but on the opposite side. The earring was even pointed out in the Famitsu Article. Note that Thalassa's english and japanese names both refer to the ocean, and the ocean is often seen as standing in direct relation to the moon. Thalassa also seemed to leave jewelry to all her children. Her brooch to Trucy, her Bracelet to Apollo... and now this new girl has an earring? Interesting.
New Girl also seems to be around the same age as Apollo. And her theme color is yellow. Apollo's theme color is red, Trucy's is blue. Hm, Red, blue, yellow. That's the same chromatic arrangement as Troupe Gramayre. To further that even more: Zak never even knew about Apollo's existence. So if there had been *more* children in Thalassa's first marriage than just Apollo, he'd not have known either. And now, the developers said this girl's design was changed around many times to fit her backstory. And she ended up looking a lot like Trucy.

So yeah, this is just a guess, really, and I could be totally wrong, but I am suggesting that the new girl might be a third Gramayre sister. Possibly even Apollo's fraternal twin (as clichee as this sounds), who either grew up in a different orphanage than him or was adopted before Apollo could even remember she existed. Or she stayed with her father's family (who rejected her brother for some reason). Laugh at me for this idea, but this could add a lot of dynamic to the story and tie it together with the open plotthreads in AJ. She might be able to solve the mystery of Apollo's father's identity and might be a way to give him a chance to develope his character without being the main character. Same for Trucy.
Here goes hoping.




So, now, what am I actually hoping for?

Well, actually, that's quite easy. I have one big hope for this to be a well written game: The main theme has to be right. If they get the plot's main theme right this game could, against all odds, be really, really great. What exactly I am thinking off?

Well, every GS game for far had a "main theme", of sorts. GS1 was about "Determination". Standing in for what you believe in, going against the odds, yet also the polar opposite of that, feeling helpless and useless and loosing faith into something you trusted in. This is the common thread that pulled through all cases and most characters, from Nick, to Maya, to Edgeworth, and even some side characters.

GS2 was about the concept of "Pride" and how it can lead to ones fall and how to rise above it.

GS3 had a theme of "Love and Deception".

And GS4's theme was "Reputation and Stage-Persona", the mask you wear to the outside to protect what's inside you from others, or to protect others or yourself from what's inside you.


Now, what theme could GS5 possibly adopt now? What is the one thing that can still be done with Nick that could still contribute to his character? How could he still grow at least a bit?

Well, I guess the answer lies in a topic that has only really been touched on properly by the fans themselves yet, even though it's clearly relevant to Nick.

That topic is "Family". Phoenix is a working single parent now. This is one of the family constellations that most commonly tend to fail somehow in Media. Yet, his family is an extended one. He's got Apollo, Trucy's overprotective big brother. And if the things about New Girl that I listed above are any indication, she might be added to Phoenix's family, giving him a trio of corelated "children" that he feels responsible for. The locket being included in Nick's design seems to hint that the Family-theme might actually be an important one and I can see how they could do a lot with it. There is the issue of single raising parents being busy and Nick being famous now, in a way. He might get a lot more busy than he used to be, causing Trucy, who is probably working on reviving Troupe Gramayre all by herself, to feel lonely ocassionally. Imagine Apollo, who works at the same law-firm then sees how much time Nick spends with his students who looks suspiciously much like Trucy. There could be a whole subplot about Apollo calling Nick out for being neglectful to his own daughter and "replacing her" with someone closer to his ideals again. (Apollo may or may not be right with that then) There could even be a climax where Nick, simmilar to GS2 is at the very worst of his behaviour for certain reasons and everyone starts abandoning him in disappointment over that, until, finally, New Girl, too, leaves, claiming he wasn't what she'd imagined him to be. Phoenix would have to seriously rethink his behaviour and his priorities then and who matters most to him. Oh, and, by the way, a family theme might also be a great way to bring certain old characters back in actually relevant roles. The AAI team's bad habbit of juggling too many characters at once could actually work in their favor there. I am thinking among the lines of Maya, Larry, Edgeworth... A "Family" theme would give all of them a great reason to show up again and prove they still matter to Phoenix life in one way or another. :maya:


So yeah... Those are all my thoughts on GS5 so far. Summed up short: This could be the greatest thing ever, a big "Meh." or even a gigantic failure. I will just sit here and hope it's not the later.

TGS can't come fast enough. :yuusaku:

~Neni


EDIT:

Oh, also, how could I forget that? -More stuff that makes me hopeful:
Nick's new "facial expression system" is very reminiscent of professional Poker in a way: He needs to choose the right expression to confuse his "opponent", or they will be able to look through his scheme. It's "choosing a poker-face", in a way.
If this is a direct result of his past as a professional poker champion and if he even makes direct reference to that and compares crossexamination to Poker while explaining the system, I will sheed happy tears of continuity and hug somebody. Believe me. :edgy:
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Last edited by Neni on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Honestly, when I first heard about GS5, I was really looking forward to playing as Apollo again but I do quite like this new Phoenix design. It might work pretty well. He looks like a combo between him (obviously) and Apollo (with the vest, the little superman curl thing. As well as the returned passion that he'd seem to have lost in AJ)

So far, it looks really exciting! Also, if it comes out in 2013, that would be eight years after Phoenix Wright was remade for DS in 2005. (It most likely will be 2013). I hope Capcom does something cool for Ace Attorney when it's 2016, when GS1 was set. I be pumped!
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Cold52 wrote:
Bolt Storm wrote:


Image



Image




now call me crazy and chances are likely 99% that i'm wrong here (what else is new) buuuut...am i the only one seeing Paynes younger brother having similarities to the bomber?


... :beef:

You're defintely not the only one who thinks that. Oh, holy crap.

Neni wrote:
So yeah, this is just a guess, really, and I could be totally wrong, but I am suggesting that the new girl might be a third Gramayre sister.


Or another daughter from Thalassa. I'm pretty sure she's connected to the Troupe Gramayre.

The beginning was quite fun, just with all the ups and downs
But suddenly, we’re tired, from a waste of meaningless emotions

시작은 뭐 즐거웠었네 오르락내리락 그 자체로 어느새 서로 지쳐버렸네 의미 없는 감정소모에

Trivia 轉 : Seesaw
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Pretty sure Payne is the bomber. He has the same evil laugh.

Mary Faraday wrote:

Or another daughter from Thalassa. I'm pretty sure she's connected to the Troupe Gramayre.


And actually, that was just what I meant. :minuki:

Maybe I should have said "Sibling" rather than "Sister". :yuusaku:
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Neni wrote:
Mary Faraday wrote:

Or another daughter from Thalassa. I'm pretty sure she's connected to the Troupe Gramayre.


And actually, that was just what I meant. :minuki:

Maybe I should have said "Sibling" rather than "Sister". :yuusaku:


Haha yeah, that's probably why I got confused for a bit. :godot: I'd rather say 'daughter' or just 'sibling', because she could be both.

The beginning was quite fun, just with all the ups and downs
But suddenly, we’re tired, from a waste of meaningless emotions

시작은 뭐 즐거웠었네 오르락내리락 그 자체로 어느새 서로 지쳐버렸네 의미 없는 감정소모에

Trivia 轉 : Seesaw
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...Hopefully someday... xD

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Cold52 wrote:
now call me crazy and chances are likely 99% that i'm wrong here (what else is new) buuuut...am i the only one seeing Paynes younger brother having similarities to the bomber?

Sorry, Woostie already called that! :P
I guess we just have to see how things turn out,
but I certainly think so too...or now... *looking at your shady shades, shady shady eyed shade brother of the year...!*

Wooster wrote:
Someone commented that the courtroom looks suspiciously similar the one in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney, which, if true, suggests there's a fair bit of sharing going on between the two projects.

Not only that, but at least to me NIck himself is just like a basic skin edit from the PL-VS-AA set.
AGain, I might be wrong here (tried to avoid any news really) but...Still.
Meh, could be that those are just some of this preview things ya know.
Kinda like those Kingdom Hearts DDD trailer things, where Sora jumps of from Notre Dame,
or Riku walks around Traverse Town in his KH1 skin. Neither of these things are in the game.




Ziisus Neni...I just know I'll never read all that...
Anyway...

Neni wrote:
Long Story, short: Yeah, I don't like the AAI writing team a lot.

Well...Yeah really.
I like overal cases, but if you inspect them more carefully and also take good look at the dialogue itself,
it's not really that neet. Sure, cases are interesting and there's many puzzling things,
but it could have been executed much more better really...

Neni wrote:
*)Phoenix Character Design. It's amazing. Just amazing. THIS is exactly the look I had in mind for Phoenix when I finished playing AJ and imagined him getting back his badge.

Well, can't say I had exactly this look in mind, but I like how much more he's dressed like Edgeworth now.
The fangirls will surely scream themselves to death now of excitement and love.

It's pretty nice modern suit, but personally I think that curly hair thing on his forehead was a bit too much.
Granted, it makes a fresher look, but for me it's like a man buying a motorcycle when he reaches 50
ad begins to hunt his youth again.

Oh well; I'll grow into it.
I know I will.

Neni wrote:
Now, what theme could GS5 possibly adopt now? What is the one thing that can still be done with Nick that could still contribute to his character? How could he still grow at least a bit?

Well, I guess the answer lies in a topic that has only really been touched on properly by the fans themselves yet, even though it's clearly relevant to Nick.

That topic is "Family". Phoenix is a working single parent now. This is one of the family constellations that most commonly tend to fail somehow in Media. Yet, his family is an extended one. He's got Apollo, Trucy's overprotective big brother. And if the things about New Girl that I listed above are any indication, she might be added to Phoenix's family, giving him a trio of corelated "children" that he feels responsible for. The locket being included in Nick's design seems to hint that the Family-theme might actually be an important one and I can see how they could do a lot with it. There is the issue of single raising parents being busy and Nick being famous now, in a way. He might get a lot more busy than he used to be, causing Trucy, who is probably working on reviving Troupe Gramayre all by herself, to feel lonely ocassionally. Imagine Apollo, who works at the same law-firm then sees how much time Nick spends with his students who looks suspiciously much like Trucy. There could be a whole subplot about Apollo calling Nick out for being neglectful to his own daughter and "replacing her" with someone closer to his ideals again. (Apollo may or may not be right with that then) There could even be a climax where Nick, simmilar to GS2 is at the very worst of his behaviour for certain reasons and everyone starts abandoning him in disappointment over that, until, finally, New Girl, too, leaves, claiming he wasn't what she'd imagined him to be. Phoenix would have to seriously rethink his behaviour and his priorities then and who matters most to him. Oh, and, by the way, a family theme might also be a great way to bring certain old characters back in actually relevant roles. The AAI team's bad habbit of juggling too many characters at once could actually work in their favor there. I am thinking among the lines of Maya, Larry, Edgeworth... A "Family" theme would give all of them a great reason to show up again and prove they still matter to Phoenix life in one way or another. :maya:

This.
Well, not completely exact, but something like this.
I'd like to have a family theme in this game, not in the angsty teen way though, but more like...feeling (if you know what I mean)

How this new gal comes in, I'm not saying anything.
Just because my ideas are either too clicheis or boring.
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Re: Gyakuten Saiban 5: The Long and the Short of itTopic%20Title
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Jesus Christ Neni that was long.

Anyway, hold on a Sec, I though it was established that the theme is "Darkness in the courtroom" or something like that, with the devs saying how Payne's brother will be a dark character who will to shove random things out of his ass and try forgery.

That's one hell of a concern Neni, you do have a point but if anything AAI 2 had a somewhat good execution than the original on a certain extent and as you said, they actually do take advice from Takumi so who knows.

The new girl will apparently have her own personality and backstory so this should be interesting, having she looks somewhat older than all the assistants but then again Women and age don't go together (no offense).
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Its interesting though Payne's brother is apparently a dark character who is tough to be beat and will try snidey tricks. I have to say I never noticed he looked a bit like the bomber in the 1st grab, but that would be an amazing curveball for the first case, and make Payne's brother the exact OPPOSITE of poor old Payne, someone who is more Phoenix's match.
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Hotdiddykong wrote:
Jesus Christ Neni that was long.

Anyway, hold on a Sec, I though it was established that the theme is "Darkness in the courtroom" or something like that, with the devs saying how Payne's brother will be a dark character who will to shove random things out of his ass and try forgery.



I live for long.

Oh, and the "Darkness" thing is something as I see more as a tonal thing, not necessarily the "theme". Otherwise, I'd have listed "Change" or the Jurist System as AJ's "theme", but that's not what i was talking about, ya no? I am talking about character developement themes.
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I like the idea of this game's "theme" possibly being "family". That's one aspect of Nick's life we never really got to explore in the original trilogy. It was always, "I became a lawyer because of this and that" and Nick's parents were only mentioned once or twice. Now that Nick himself is a parent, I do agree that that opens up a door to more possibilities; more stories and plots that were previously unexplored.

But hey, as long as I get to see the original cast, or at they very least they're mentioned to still be in touch with Nick, then I'm content with that.
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LightningfistCal wrote:
I like the idea of this game's "theme" possibly being "family". That's one aspect of Nick's life we never really got to explore in the original trilogy. It was always, "I became a lawyer because of this and that" and Nick's parents were only mentioned once or twice. Now that Nick himself is a parent, I do agree that that opens up a door to more possibilities; more stories and plots that were previously unexplored.

But hey, as long as I get to see the original cast, or at they very least they're mentioned to still be in touch with Nick, then I'm content with that.


As long as they aren't referred to as "that person..." or something similar, I'll be happy.

It really annoyed me when they did that with Edgeworth in AA4 (IIRC) and with Phoenix in AAI (happened SEVERAL TIMES. Why did you make his name taboo, Edgeworth?).
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Because Phoenix is too powerful a presence. Look at every time Edgeworth returned in past games. They had to build him up and reintroduce him. New fans aren't going to know Jack about Phoenix, nor would they care. Not unless he's formally introduced and made important. As evidenced with Apollo Justice Phoenix ended up stealing the show. They didn't want that to happen.
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blahmoomoo wrote:
LightningfistCal wrote:
I like the idea of this game's "theme" possibly being "family". That's one aspect of Nick's life we never really got to explore in the original trilogy. It was always, "I became a lawyer because of this and that" and Nick's parents were only mentioned once or twice. Now that Nick himself is a parent, I do agree that that opens up a door to more possibilities; more stories and plots that were previously unexplored.

But hey, as long as I get to see the original cast, or at they very least they're mentioned to still be in touch with Nick, then I'm content with that.


As long as they aren't referred to as "that person..." or something similar, I'll be happy.

It really annoyed me when they did that with Edgeworth in AA4 (IIRC) and with Phoenix in AAI (happened SEVERAL TIMES. Why did you make his name taboo, Edgeworth?).


Yeah in AJ:AA Edgeworth was "that person" and Maya was "some kid". :/

If you're gonna reference a character, do so with their names for crying out loud. I guess the way they did it in AJ:AA and AAI was so as not to "alienate" the new gamers or whatever, but then again that's pretty contradictory on its own since the games brought back previous characters anyway.
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Wooster wrote:
Because Phoenix is too powerful a presence. Look at every time Edgeworth returned in past games. They had to build him up and reintroduce him. New fans aren't going to know Jack about Phoenix, nor would they care. Not unless he's formally introduced and made important. As evidenced with Apollo Justice Phoenix ended up stealing the show. They didn't want that to happen.


Yeah, that was probably part of the reason they decided to make Nick the main character again. It's hard to write him in any other way, but it's also hard to write him out, especially if you don't want a mob of angry fans on your heels, thristing for your blood.

I have come to accept that he's the main again, even if I still don't think it's an all that bright idea of the team. I just want the game to tie into everything that happened before neatly, which means Apollo and Trucy must be present and actually have an impact on the events, otherwise I'll gnash my teeth so hard, they'll be able to hear it over in Japan.

I hate how they tend to write around former important characters the way they did in AJ or AAI. I never want to see such a cop-out again.
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Actually… I don't think Edgeworth got a mention at all in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, though Butz did get 2 stealth cameos in the background of the stadium. Which Croik was able to point out and suggest that Capcom was up to something regarding Edgeworth, which ultimately became Ace Attorney Investigations.

It boils down to, if the character is important to the story, then they get formal introductions. If they're not at all, then they become easter eggs.
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Wooster wrote:
Actually… I don't think Edgeworth got a mention at all in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, though Butz did get 2 stealth cameos in the background of the stadium. Which Croik was able to point out and suggest that Capcom was up to something regarding Edgeworth, which ultimately became Ace Attorney Investigations.

It boils down to, if the character is important to the story, then they get formal introductions. If they're not at all, then they become easter eggs.


I think Iris was also in that cameo appearance with Larry (the first one in Sunshine Coliseum where they're having a picnic).

And I agree with that statement. But still, I'm just hoping for Maya or Edgey to be mentioned properly, even if just in passing.
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Personally, I hope not. Adrian's cameo in Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations totally destroyed my opinion of her. Use them when you've got a good reason to, don't if otherwise. (And one of those "Don't"s should've been one Butz or Wendy in GK1-5. Just because you can use something, doesn't mean you should. Do it right, and you'll have a better effect then if you did it because you could.
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Wooster wrote:
Actually… I don't think Edgeworth got a mention at all in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, though Butz did get 2 stealth cameos in the background of the stadium. Which Croik was able to point out and suggest that Capcom was up to something regarding Edgeworth, which ultimately became Ace Attorney Investigations.

It boils down to, if the character is important to the story, then they get formal introductions. If they're not at all, then they become easter eggs.


My problem is that Trucy can't be unimportant, because she's Phoenix' daughter. Ignoring her would make very little sense, especially how deeply he has been shown to care for her. I mean, Phoenix cared for Maya simmilarly and that led into AJ being kind enough to inform us that she has enough power over Nick to force him to spend his spare time watching Steel Samurai, even though she was miles away from the plot. But Trucy LIVES with Nick. Only way to get her out of the plot would to send her to a boarding school, to which I say: NO. No Hogwarts Trucy, please not. Her dynamic with Phoenix is too interesting to waste it like that.

Simmilarly, Apollo can't be written out because he WORKS FOR NICK. Which means, there should be clear signs of his presence in the office. Only logical way to get rid of him would be to do the Ace Attorney equivalent of above mentioned boarding school and send him to AmeriGermany for Law Studies. I am not even kidding, I could see them do that.

All of this just a year after AJ would bite HORRIBLY with the ending of AJ where all three characters state that they want to stick together for the years to come, so I really, really don't want to see it happen. It'd be just as insulting to the characters in my eyes as Nick loosing his badge in first place was.

Seriously, I want Maya and Edgeworth too, of course. But you see, those two don't LIVE or WORK with Nick. They can logically not be there. Trucy and Apollo are different, so their presence has priority to me, because you cannot break character like this just because executives say so, no.
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Well, the easy way out is just to say that they are working on their own case. And place them in the office just like Winston was placed in the hallway in AAI-1.
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Just asking, did anyone else notice the attorney badge on our female friend in yellow, in the lobby picture?

Sorry if this has already been asked... :shoe:
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irishmarcoos wrote:
Just asking, did anyone else notice the attorney badge on our female friend in yellow, in the lobby picture?

Sorry if this has already been asked... :shoe:


Calling it!

The girl is an attorney in training and is getting work experience with Phoenix Wright.

Am I the only one who thinks the open-jacket version of Nick looks a bit egh.
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Oh, and also, the Capcom schedule says that they have presentations for the 2 games, GS5 on Saturday at 11.30am (Japan) and Layton VS GS on Sunday at 10.30am (Japan).

http://www.capcom.co.jp/tgs2012/scd.html

:shoe:
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Oh, I actually thought the girl being Nick's student was already obvious, so I didn't mention it.

That'd make her Apollo's Kohai, speaking in Japanese terms... hmmm... I see a ship coming up...

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Attorney in training? I thought she was MYSTERIOUS? :p (j/k), I expected something weirder.
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I really hate my country now!

First Layton vs Wright and now THIS? Why the hell should I be doomed to the damnation of not playing games I like? Should I really wait for the *sighemulatorssigh* to come out? I really now wish to afford the 3DS!
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Wooster wrote:
Someone commented that the courtroom looks suspiciously similar the one in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney, which, if true, suggests there's a fair bit of sharing going on between the two projects.


Huh? Not even close. How exactly does a normal courtroom look similar to a castle?

Maybe you already forgot how the courtroom in PLvAA looks like?

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Pierre wrote:
irishmarcoos wrote:
Just asking, did anyone else notice the attorney badge on our female friend in yellow, in the lobby picture?

Sorry if this has already been asked... :shoe:


Calling it!

The girl is an attorney in training and is getting work experience with Phoenix Wright.

Am I the only one who thinks the open-jacket version of Nick looks a bit egh.


Yes, you are :zenitora:
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