Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Neni wrote:
grim_tales wrote:
Combining the bracelet and and Magatama is a pretty cool idea actually, perhaps they'll do that?
And it would lead into... 3D perceiving.
Made my day. xD
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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D-Man wrote:
Uh... I actually want Phoenix to be the main character...
Look at it this way: Do you still thing that there's any interesting story left that can be told with him as a character?
AA1 was about him growing into a strong person and dealing with a childhood problem of him and his friend.
AA2 was about his own moral dilemma and learning to understand what an Attorney really needs to fight for.
AA3 was about his emotions, his college days and him finally growing independant and maturing into a full-fledged adult.
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan. A single case, just for lulz, yeah, maybe, but let's face it, if he got an entire game for himself, he'd just end up like poor Apollo ended up in AJ by default: Not the focus of the plot, barely getting any good moments for himself, not developing at all over the course of the game and thus overshadowed by other characters.
I don't want Phoenix to fall victim to this typical Fanservice-Cashcow-Character problem. I really don't.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Neni wrote:
Look at it this way: Do you still thing that there's any interesting story left that can be told with him as a character?
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
That'd actually be a really good idea to work with. We've already set up Phoenix gaining an apprentice, why not role with it and use it give Phoenix himself character development? He'd slowly begin to learn the ins and outs of being a proper mentor to Apollo, as opposed to being the manipulative chessmaster he was in GS4. Basically he'd be walking a mile in Mia's shoes, and try to make sure Apollo goes the right course.
Then perhaps to make things more interesting, have a moment where Apollo accidentally gets a guilty person off the hook or something to that degree, and Phoenix wonders if he himself messed up in his teachings, or perhaps have a moment where Phoenix has to do something somewhat controversial to save a client, and Apollo calls him out on it, and Phoenix ends up having to learn about Apollo's past to understand his views about law.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Neni wrote:
Look at it this way: Do you still thing that there's any interesting story left that can be told with him as a character?
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
That'd actually be a really good idea to work with. We've already set up Phoenix gaining an apprentice, why not role with it and use it give Phoenix himself character development? He'd slowly begin to learn the ins and outs of being a proper mentor to Apollo, as opposed to being the manipulative chessmaster he was in GS4. Basically he'd be walking a mile in Mia's shoes, and try to make sure Apollo goes the right course.
Then perhaps to make things more interesting, have a moment where Apollo accidentally gets a guilty person off the hook or something to that degree, and Phoenix wonders if he himself messed up in his teachings, or perhaps have a moment where Phoenix has to do something somewhat controversial to save a client, and Apollo calls him out on it, and Phoenix ends up having to learn about Apollo's past to understand his views about law.
That sounds like a really great plot and I would be very glad if we saw that. Still, I think the focus should stay on Apollo. He has a lot more space left to explore.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Neni wrote:
Look at it this way: Do you still thing that there's any interesting story left that can be told with him as a character?
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
That'd actually be a really good idea to work with. We've already set up Phoenix gaining an apprentice, why not role with it and use it give Phoenix himself character development? He'd slowly begin to learn the ins and outs of being a proper mentor to Apollo, as opposed to being the manipulative chessmaster he was in GS4. Basically he'd be walking a mile in Mia's shoes, and try to make sure Apollo goes the right course.
Then perhaps to make things more interesting, have a moment where Apollo accidentally gets a guilty person off the hook or something to that degree, and Phoenix wonders if he himself messed up in his teachings, or perhaps have a moment where Phoenix has to do something somewhat controversial to save a client, and Apollo calls him out on it, and Phoenix ends up having to learn about Apollo's past to understand his views about law.
I don't think it's so good. You make it sound like some kinda Law Office Management Sim the way he is the main character but he looks after Apollo. Then there's a mish mash where you either play as Phoenix doing wrong or Phoenix witnessing Apollo doing wrong and "learning about Apollo's past to understand his views about law"......which just sounds very contrived and needless.
Apollo's past should come up in a way that's relevant to the story like Phoenix's did, it shouldn't be "Hmm lets wikipedia my sidekick for fun".
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Pierre wrote:
I don't think it's so good. You make it sound like some kinda Law Office Management Sim the way he is the main character but he looks after Apollo. Then there's a mish mash where you either play as Phoenix doing wrong or Phoenix witnessing Apollo doing wrong and "learning about Apollo's past to understand his views about law"......which just sounds very contrived and needless.
Apollo's past should come up in a way that's relevant to the story like Phoenix's did, it shouldn't be "Hmm lets wikipedia my sidekick for fun".
Apollo's past should come up in a way that's relevant to the story like Phoenix's did, it shouldn't be "Hmm lets wikipedia my sidekick for fun".
Ahaha, sorry about that. I was just kinda talking out of my ass and giving examples and rambling ideas. I meant to just do a series of events that involve conflict and such between the mentor and apprentice, only from the mentor's POV, and would somehow go into the subject of Apollo's past.
Like to come up with a few ideas off the top of my head, maybe Apollo could bring up how he's always been used throughout his life, even back in the orphanage where he grew up, people would exploit him or use him as a scapegoat to place blame on, and he'd go along with it because he didn't have much of a backbone to stand up for himself, or he just fears that people won't accept him if he doesn't. Then maybe Phoenix could tell him how he was once a scapegoat for a whole classroom, and when he was exploited by a woman who he thought he loved. Having similar qualities and flaws like this would be good to establish a good mentor/apprentice bond.
Oops I'm talking out of my ass again. My brain does weird things when I'm in a creative mood. XD;
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I'm sure not all orphanages turn out bad, though imagine if Kristoph had been the one to put Apollo through law school. Would require some serious funds and someone like Kristoph would know the right connections to get him into a good school.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Pierre wrote:
Wow you must really hate Apollo to see him have such a tragic backstory XD
I'm sure not all orphanages turn out bad, though imagine if Kristoph had been the one to put Apollo through law school. Would require some serious funds and someone like Kristoph would know the right connections to get him into a good school.
I'm sure not all orphanages turn out bad, though imagine if Kristoph had been the one to put Apollo through law school. Would require some serious funds and someone like Kristoph would know the right connections to get him into a good school.
*jumping in*
I wouldn't be surprised if Kristoph somehow managed to help Apollo's way through law school. And I also think Apollo's past isn't exactly happy (in fact, might be worse that Phoenix's, who's obviously had is fair share of suckitude), if only because of what Brushel said in the last case (something about "falling through the system," if I remember correctly.).
As for Phoenix, he definitely has to be in the game. It would strike me as weird if he wasn't. I mean, I could imagine Apollo going to him for help if he ever had trouble on a case or something. But like others have said, I don't want Apollo's past to be revealed just because Phoenix took a sudden interest in it--I'd like it to come about on its own terms, related to something Apollo himself is involved in.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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It's also my headcanon that the orphanage he grew up in was a neat, comfortable place, but he'd regularly get scolded by the caretakers for getting into trouble. (Mostly getting into brawls or going in-between fighting parties.)
I agree, Phoenix HAS to be in the game and maybe some other old characters thrown into the mix, but the focus has to be Apollo, since he needs to be explored. Nick should be the Mia, the Obi Wan, the wise guy who gives a cryptic advice of great importance in the most crucial moments. The conflict should NOT be focused on him.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
Neni wrote:
Look at it this way: Do you still thing that there's any interesting story left that can be told with him as a character?
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
Now tell me, what else is there left to explore? He has effectively become the Obi Wan.
That'd actually be a really good idea to work with. We've already set up Phoenix gaining an apprentice, why not role with it and use it give Phoenix himself character development? He'd slowly begin to learn the ins and outs of being a proper mentor to Apollo, as opposed to being the manipulative chessmaster he was in GS4. Basically he'd be walking a mile in Mia's shoes, and try to make sure Apollo goes the right course.
Then perhaps to make things more interesting, have a moment where Apollo accidentally gets a guilty person off the hook or something to that degree, and Phoenix wonders if he himself messed up in his teachings, or perhaps have a moment where Phoenix has to do something somewhat controversial to save a client, and Apollo calls him out on it, and Phoenix ends up having to learn about Apollo's past to understand his views about law.
Makes sense, that sounds a great idea! :)
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Neni wrote:
My personal headcanon was always that Apollo was a loner in his youth and, personality-wise, the exact opposite of Feenie, somewhat mistrusting, pessimistic, a ruffian, barely any friends and that he eventually wanted to become a lawyer to make a difference to the world in some way (Seeing Nick on TV pull Turnabouts probably helped.), as well as to proove his own worth.
It's also my headcanon that the orphanage he grew up in was a neat, comfortable place, but he'd regularly get scolded by the caretakers for getting into trouble. (Mostly getting into brawls or going in-between fighting parties.)
It's also my headcanon that the orphanage he grew up in was a neat, comfortable place, but he'd regularly get scolded by the caretakers for getting into trouble. (Mostly getting into brawls or going in-between fighting parties.)
So, like, I'm just going to go ahead and say now that I love it when you post your ideas. Usually because I have a tendency to agree in one way or another.
I agree with the personality and the orphanage stuff, but I can never stick to just one idea about the "why" behind him becoming a lawyer. Sometimes it's what you said, sometimes it's because of more specific events that might have happened to him...I don't know, really.
...but this is a thread about Phoenix, so I'll just be quiet now.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Pierre wrote:
Err...I don't think wise Chessmaster Phoenix will ever be like a Gumshoe.
I'm not talking about personalities here, I mean the role each of them played. Gumshoe was as much of an aid as Kay was, however he got a bit less screentime 'cause Kay had a major role in the backstory. But that didn't stop Gumshoe from helping Edgeworth whenever possible. And what with Apollo and Trucy being unknown siblings and Trucy being a Grammarye (just like Kay is the daughter of the Yatagarasu: backstory), the roles are practically fitting.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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In case 1 that is.
After that, he'll go defend in outher various countries while coming to help OCCASIONALLY and as I said on the other post, get a new disciple (who vaguely resembles Maya in appearance and not personality).
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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I think it would make things interesting if Phoenix continued with some of his "corrupt abuse of influence" type of behavior, and it ended up putting Apollo in a situation much like what Phoenix went through. It would be an epic twist of fate that would make for a good plot. Phoenix wont ever take over as the main character, but he certainly wont go away, mostly because of his relation to Trucy. Which brings up another point:
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Bynine wrote:
Play a case as Phoenix, Apollo, Edgeworth, and a new character each, then have all four join together for 5-5.
Bad idea. That would just be confusing as hell. And if you add a new player character that you only get to play as for one case then there's no way the fans are gonna be able to "relate" with them.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Having said that, after going through the PW trilogy I feel that Apollo's character feels less developed, so I may connect with Phoenix a little more now. But this is because we've had 13 cases with Phoenix (even more if you've read the manga) and we've had 4 with Apollo. So in my opinion the only way how Apollo will become a more popular and well-loved character is to continue on his path. So Phoenix really shouldn't have a whole case or even be involved to the extent of his involvement in AJ.
I think having him as the occasional help side character (Like Mia was in the PW Trilogy) would be ideal. He's not always there like Trucy is, but when he is there he has a big impact on your outlook on the case. And then it might be appropriate for Phoenix to take over the case for a little bit due to some problem with Apollo (similar to Edgeworth in Trials and Tribulations when Wright is injured) so that we get another trial with him.
As for him gaining his Attorney's Badge back, I have mixed feelings. It's kind of the equivalent of when they moved the island on "Lost". While it serves a greater story purpose, it's one of those plot developments that doesn't feel right. If Phoenix gets his badge back, a lot of the emotional vibe of AJ's final case would be lost. So I think if they do do that they need to be very careful so make sure it doesn't just feel "back to normal".
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Mixed feelings about Apollo continuing on as the protagonist.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Ingthing wrote:
I just want Phoenix to get back in the courts, as a defense attorney Mixed feelings about Apollo continuing on as the protagonist.
Mixed feelings about Apollo continuing on as the protagonist.I totally agree with you there. In GS4, he wasn't 'proper' Phoenix, in that he was really arrogant and un-Phoenix-like. I liked Apollo, but I think he was really...odd.
IMO, Phoenix should either return as a defence attorney or PROPER mentor. Nothing inbetween.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Rarar wrote:
Ingthing wrote:
I just want Phoenix to get back in the courts, as a defense attorney Mixed feelings about Apollo continuing on as the protagonist.
Mixed feelings about Apollo continuing on as the protagonist.I totally agree with you there. In GS4, he wasn't 'proper' Phoenix, in that he was really arrogant and un-Phoenix-like. I liked Apollo, but I think he was really...odd.
IMO, Phoenix should either return as a defence attorney or PROPER mentor. Nothing inbetween.
I disagree, Phoenix had been through extremely hard times which had made him older and wiser and his change indicated that fine I thought. Plus sometimes you can catch glimpses of who Phoenix used to be when he is happy (literally boiling down to a sprite where his eyes are wide open instead of slightly tired-looking) which makes the effect Apollo and Trucy have on his life all the more apparent.
Apollo is the future, he's not odd he's just not Phoenix which seems odd. He's got just as much passion for law as Nick did, if not more (I don't recall Phoenix ever getting violent in the name of justice).
Phoenix should remain a mentor or appear little in the game at all.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
Apollo is the future, he's not odd he's just not Phoenix which seems odd.
To me, it's nothing to do with him not being Phoenix, I just find him to be an odd person.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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) don't have the charm that the Big 3 ( 
) Had in the first trilogy. Now thinking about it, I think they will try to replace Apollo. Why? Well it seems the original fans didn't grasp AJ as well as the originals, also think about something else.. In AA vs PL for the 3ds who is the Ace Attorney... well its of course! With If Apollo was the real successor why is play the role of Ace Attorney? Also they are remastering the 3 original games for ios and have failed to even put an game on the ios! I think the will return to court and replace as the main character having as a side character. I also believe will also return. I would love to see case 5 against a spirit medium channeling none other than 
yes as he tries to get his revenge much like 
. I also think that Iris could make a return in GS5. Phoenix needs to end up with a girlfriend he also needs his drivers licence!! While Apollo does seem to try, he tries to hard to be funny. And I am left wanting more of Phoenix's story. I't would be cool for to stop from taking the case. Much like another poster said. Also what happens between 
and 
? There are too many questions that I felt were unanswered in G3 and G5 needs to answer them. Plus does 
ever show up in G4 cause if he doesn't he also needs to be in G5. I think the time travel thing would be cool cause wouldn't mean a thing and this junk of a game could be erased forever!! Haha that's just my thoughts....I probably have more just forgot about them.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
I't would be cool for to stop from taking the case
to stop from taking the caseWhat on earth does this mean?! How?!
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Pierre wrote:
Hold up I disagree with a lot of what you said but....
What on earth does this mean?! How?!
Quote:
I't would be cool for to stop from taking the case
to stop from taking the caseWhat on earth does this mean?! How?!
Lol it'd be cool for
to go back in time and stop his old self from taking the case. That way Apollo Justice's story wouldn't have ever happened.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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cvmerchanary wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Hold up I disagree with a lot of what you said but....
What on earth does this mean?! How?!
Quote:
I't would be cool for to stop from taking the case
to stop from taking the caseWhat on earth does this mean?! How?!
Lol it'd be cool for
to go back in time and stop his old self from taking the case. That way Apollo Justice's story wouldn't have ever happened.Eh....er...I think Nick would have more integrity than that to go messing about with the timeline if he somehow could. Also no guarantee it would 'stop' Apollo's story, someone else would just have to take the fall for Kristoph and then that person would replace hobophoenix in Apollo Justice's story. Nick's debarrment wasn't integral to Apollo Justice's life.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
Eh....er...I think Nick would have more integrity than that to go messing about with the timeline if he somehow could. Also no guarantee it would 'stop' Apollo's story, someone else would just have to take the fall for Kristoph and then that person would replace hobophoenix in Apollo Justice's story. Nick's debarrment wasn't integral to Apollo Justice's life.
Yeah you have a point. Maybe after GS5 They could have dual releases kinda like Pokemon. It just puzzles me why Phoenix is vs Professor Layton when Apollo is the apparent "successor" of the series. I also think they left it a question in G4 if Phoenix would take the exam again, to see what the fans thought of Apollo. Since the fans of the first 3, some of them didn't enjoy it CAPCOM decided to hold release of GS5. I feel like Capcom will realize that
is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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cvmerchanary wrote:
Quote:
Eh....er...I think Nick would have more integrity than that to go messing about with the timeline if he somehow could. Also no guarantee it would 'stop' Apollo's story, someone else would just have to take the fall for Kristoph and then that person would replace hobophoenix in Apollo Justice's story. Nick's debarrment wasn't integral to Apollo Justice's life.
Yeah you have a point. Maybe after GS5 They could have dual releases kinda like Pokemon. It just puzzles me why Phoenix is vs Professor Layton when Apollo is the apparent "successor" of the series. I also think they left it a question in G4 if Phoenix would take the exam again, to see what the fans thought of Apollo. Since the fans of the first 3, some of them didn't enjoy it CAPCOM decided to hold release of GS5. I feel like Capcom will realize that
is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.Yes Apollo is the successor but seeing as the VS Layton game is technically a non-canon spinoff it wouldn't make sense to give it to a relative newcomer. Apollo doesn't best represent the franchise seeing as it originated from Phoenix. Apollo may do so well in future but as the star of one game he's not really material to represent the entire series just yet.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Quote:
Yeah you have a point. Maybe after GS5 They could have dual releases kinda like Pokemon. It just puzzles me why Phoenix is vs Professor Layton when Apollo is the apparent "successor" of the series. I also think they left it a question in G4 if Phoenix would take the exam again, to see what the fans thought of Apollo. Since the fans of the first 3, some of them didn't enjoy it CAPCOM decided to hold release of GS5. I feel like Capcom will realize that is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.
is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.Yes Apollo is the successor but seeing as the VS Layton game is technically a non-canon spinoff it wouldn't make sense to give it to a relative newcomer. Apollo doesn't best represent the franchise seeing as it originated from Phoenix. Apollo may do so well in future but as the star of one game he's not really material to represent the entire series just yet.[/quote]
I just realized something though. The logo of GS5 is Blue just like the original 3. Also the shine where Phoenix points his finger is the side where it use to be. Could this possibly mean Phoenix could return?
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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cvmerchanary wrote:
Quote:
Yeah you have a point. Maybe after GS5 They could have dual releases kinda like Pokemon. It just puzzles me why Phoenix is vs Professor Layton when Apollo is the apparent "successor" of the series. I also think they left it a question in G4 if Phoenix would take the exam again, to see what the fans thought of Apollo. Since the fans of the first 3, some of them didn't enjoy it CAPCOM decided to hold release of GS5. I feel like Capcom will realize that is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.
is the face of the series. It's kinda like getting rid of Ash and Pikachu in pokemon... You just cannot do it.Yes Apollo is the successor but seeing as the VS Layton game is technically a non-canon spinoff it wouldn't make sense to give it to a relative newcomer. Apollo doesn't best represent the franchise seeing as it originated from Phoenix. Apollo may do so well in future but as the star of one game he's not really material to represent the entire series just yet.
I just realized something though. The logo of GS5 is Blue just like the original 3. Also the shine where Phoenix points his finger is the side where it use to be. Could this possibly mean Phoenix could return?[/quote]
Possibly, just need to wait and see, I'd be disappointed if Phoenix was mained again though.
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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But if I can't have that, then Phoenix as a lawyer who pops into mentor Apollo every so often, and you play at least one case as him. I want him to keep the calm and collected part of his new personality, but see more of the exciting lawyer he was in the first 3 games.
Apollo in court and Phoenix doing the investigations would be fun. Especially if Phoenix sees Ema again.
Re: What part should Phoenix play in GS5?
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That being said, I don't think I would be too disappointed if Phoenix ended up being the mentor again, but I don't think I want him as the main character again... I'd rather see more of
before getting another game.
Credit goes to the lovely Purple Angel for the sig, and the wonderful TheBaronAndEma for the avatar~!
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