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Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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dimentiorules wrote:
Hey, Nine Tales Vale is no worse than Kurain Village when it comes to being "too Japanese", at least in my opinion.


I don't see why its bad for it to be "Too Japanese".
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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dimentiorules wrote:
Hey, Nine Tales Vale is no worse than Kurain Village when it comes to being "too Japanese", at least in my opinion.


Thing is, there wasn't any mentions of demons/supernatural entities in Kurain Village...

dimentiorules wrote:
Am I the only person here who actually likes 3-3? It was a pretty interesting case, sure, the premise was stupid, but at least the game was aware that the premise was stupid, unlike 4-3.


I liked that case (Armstrong aside).
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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dimentiorules wrote:
Am I the only person here who actually likes 3-3? It was a pretty interesting case, sure, the premise was stupid, but at least the game was aware that the premise was stupid, unlike 4-3.

3-3 has some of my favorite quotes from Godot. Heck, the confrontation against Tigre was actually exciting. In fact, the only character in that case I didn't like was the victim. He had a fun name, though.

NinjaMonkey wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
Hey, Nine Tales Vale is no worse than Kurain Village when it comes to being "too Japanese", at least in my opinion.


Thing is, there wasn't any mentions of demons/supernatural entities in Kurain Village...

Spirit channeling is pretty big in Japan, you know.

For sake of trivia, the Magatama is the first name to not be localized in an AA game.
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Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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1-3:
I've criticized this case before but I've grown to have a little more appreciation of it in recent time (mostly thanks to Rubia). I think the main problem with the case is that it's too long for it's own good. It should only be two trial days and it definitely dampers the replayability. The monkey head is incredibly annoying and the evidence against Powers is so weak that he shouldn't have even been arrested. However, the last contradiction is one of my favorites in the series. If it was said during the first trial, you'd just be like, "Objection! Hammer wasn't injured, you silly goose!" However, so much has happened that you forget the basic details of the case. When you finally realize the contradiction, you're like, "Oooooooh." There's also a lot of subtext with Dee Vasquez and Manuel. It's very implied that she loved him. I'd say this case is definitely the weakest in the first game, even though I don't hate it as much as I used to

2-3:
Probably the weakest case in JFA, as well (bar the tutorial case). Also, probably my least favorite out of all the ones on this list. I won't get too into it because everything that has ever needed to be said about it has been said, but I do enjoy the cross-examination with Moe and the case is actually pretty difficult but fair in the first trial day. I don't feel that bad for Acro, unfortunately, but I know they took a risk with the villain, which is somewhat appreciative. I am going to go against the popular opinion and say that I do think Regina matured from this case to her appearance in GK2. It's been a while since I've played 2-3, though, so I could be wrong

3-3:
I don't really like it. Viola is probably my favorite one-case appearance character in the entire series (besides Rhoda) and I did really feel for her. Also, the confrontation against Tigre is the closest the series has gotten to a final boss without being in the final case (this case also has one of my favorite motives in the series). My main problem with the case is that it's so...contrived. I still think that AAI-5 is the most contrived case in the series, but at least as it's being explained to me, I'm thinking, "Oh. I guess that would work. The plan was a little needlessly complex but I guess it's somewhat plausible." As I'm playing 3-3, I'm thinking, "No. There's no possible realm of reality this could work. Not a chance." I don't even understand why Tigre would take such a huge risk with his convoluted plan. The only reason he did is so the case could be convoluted. Tigre should've just killed Maggey, too, and then ask Armstrong with help burying the bodies, in exchange for his debt being cleared. I just want to add that I'm also not fond that the whole premise of this case is built on a foundation of bullshit. I don't think the fact that the game lampshades it is an excuse, either, because the case takes itself seriously enough. Also, once we proved that he was actually at Tres Bien, that should've immediately exonerated Maggie

4-3:
Again, I won't get too into it, because everybody has already said what needs to be said. I will say that Daryan is a great villain, though. He's the only villain in the entire game who actually puts up a decent fight. Plus, this case has that classic Takumi set up. He puts so many pieces in place with Lamiroir and the Gramaryes (and I've said it before, but Valant is in my top 5 favorite characters of the series) and then elegantly reveals all of it in the last case. The rest of the case is kind of just...boring, I guess? Oh well.

AAI-3:
I. Fucking. Love. This. Case. I'm always vehemently 100% against people who disagree with me. Okay, not really, because I do understand some of the flaws tih it. Meekins didn't need to be in it. Ema didn't need to be in it. Oldbag didn't need to be in it (but it added hilarity when she appeared again in Case 5). The Bellboy...nah. The Bellboy needed to be in it. The common complaints that I've heard about this case is that it has too many cameo characters when it should've been focusing on Lauren Paups and the Amanos. And to that I say...yeah. However, this case introduces Kay (in my top 5 for characters as well) and Shi-Long Lang (in my top 10). The case gets deeper and deeper and while Lance isn't a great villain, it's actually a little difficult to take him down with Shi-Long Lang providing resistance, as well as Ernest Amano. The last segment with Little Thief was a genius way to close off the case. Plus, Lauren Paups is a pretty decent one-off character in my opinion. It had a pretty bittersweet ending when Edgey revealed that her father was just out to protect her. Colin's story gets even more tragic when you realize the truth behind his arrest in Case 4. This might be bold to say, but I think this is one of the most replayable cases of the series, along with Turnabout Beginnings, Turnabout Trump, Turnabout Airlines, and Turnabout Target

AAI2-3:
Best non-finale case in the series. The mystery in this one isn't that special to be honest, but the story really brings it all home. Playing as Gregory and going against Von Karma and then closing the book as his son was just too good to not screw up. I think this case was an absolute success. I don't want delve into it that much because there are still people who haven't played the game, but I talk about it to a greater extent in the GK2 forum section

5-3:
Great case. Hugh O'Conner is the one thing that holds it back, but the case manages to mix the goofiness with the intrigue very effectively. Robin Newman was a great character and I thought Means was a pretty good villain. The end with the statue was pretty funny and a clever way to wrap up the case (Get it? I did like a thing...)

So, I'd say that bar the tutorial cases, the third case is the weakest about 4/7 times

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
The intermediate cases often are wrongly labelled as "filler" because of an overall disinterest in them. A more accurate description would be "sequential breaks from highlights." You can't get from climax to climax without some relatively less intense moments to fill in-between. It's only natural the 3rd cases would seem weak in comparison because they're placed right before cases 4 & 5, where the spectacular things happen. If case 3 is the highlight, then cases 4 and 5 will drop in quality. That's what happened in GK2. The end felt rushed, as if all those loose ends conveniently tied themselves up. (And the final boss felt so underwhelming compared to the boss in case 4.)

Spoiler: GK2 Case 4 and 5
I feel the opposite way. I thought the villain of Case 4 was really intimidating but then fell apart at the end due to a rushed ending. Someone else mentioned it, but they were clearly trying to make him a Gant-like person but it ended up failing in the end.

I think Case 5 is the strongest of GK2. I know you said that you played the game while learning Japanese, so I won't dig you that much for details about what bothered you, but I thought it was perfectly paced (only slowing down with the trial section) and then concluding. It was a lot more meticulous than Case 4 and I LOVED the final villain. I don't think he was underwhelming at all. He was in less of a position of power than Bansai, but it was deeper on a personal level to take him down

Quote:
On a related note, why do the later games pale in comparison to the original trilogy? For one, there's a strong focus on one character. For another, we see him grow with accumulated experience, up until he faces the most dangerous (and most stubborn) opponent of them all. In stark contrast, the only reason GK2 follows GK1 is because of a week skip (pun not intended). We could easily flip them around, switch the arrivals of certain characters, and with localization thrown in, we wouldn't know the difference.

I disagree. While GK didn't develop Edgeworth's character that much and more existed for Kay's sake, GK2 was a huge turning point for Edgeworth. Going from GK2 Edgeworth into GK Edgeworth would be a giant step backwards. At least GK had him start thinking like a defense attorney and then they turned that into an actual dilemma in GK2
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
The intermediate cases often are wrongly labelled as "filler" because of an overall disinterest in them. A more accurate description would be "sequential breaks from highlights." You can't get from climax to climax without some relatively less intense moments to fill in-between. It's only natural the 3rd cases would seem weak in comparison because they're placed right before cases 4 & 5, where the spectacular things happen. If case 3 is the highlight, then cases 4 and 5 will drop in quality. That's what happened in GK2. The end felt rushed, as if all those loose ends conveniently tied themselves up. (And the final boss felt so underwhelming compared to the boss in case 4.)

Spoiler: GK2 Case 4 and 5
I feel the opposite way. I thought the villain of Case 4 was really intimidating but then fell apart at the end due to a rushed ending. Someone else mentioned it, but they were clearly trying to make him a Gant-like person but it ended up failing in the end.

I think Case 5 is the strongest of GK2. I know you said that you played the game while learning Japanese, so I won't dig you that much for details about what bothered you, but I thought it was perfectly paced (only slowing down with the trial section) and then concluding. It was a lot more meticulous than Case 4 and I LOVED the final villain. I don't think he was underwhelming at all. He was in less of a position of power than Bansai, but it was deeper on a personal level to take him down

Spoiler:
In hindsight, I suppose I was a little harsh on the critique, but what I remember most from my experience playing through the latter half of that case, before the "big reveal", was mainly boredom and frustration with my internet connection because I needed the help of a dictionary as I played. It was a time when I wasn't as familiar with the language, so I may have missed out on a few crucial details or jokes on the way.

Also, I keep mixing up certain bits of case 4 and 5. I have to remind myself that the scene in court played out in the 5th case, and regardless, is still one of my favorite scenes to date. However, I did mean it when I said "rushed". Throughout the previous four cases, the big revelations were pretty mellow, and it wasn't so clear to see how they all connected. By the middle of the 5th case, I felt we were taking a huge detour to learn extra exposition just so the game could tie up all its loose plot ends. If that bit was better foreshadowed, I wouldn't complain at all, really.

And, well, I never really cared much for Souta in the first place. He came off as a quirky oddball that I hoped I'd come to like, but in the end, it wasn't until he made the 180-flip to psycho clown when I finally took interest in him. And again, the way the last confrontations dragged out didn't make the battle feel any more exciting than it had been at the start. Gotta love that "breakdown", though.


Quote:
Quote:
On a related note, why do the later games pale in comparison to the original trilogy? For one, there's a strong focus on one character. For another, we see him grow with accumulated experience, up until he faces the most dangerous (and most stubborn) opponent of them all. In stark contrast, the only reason GK2 follows GK1 is because of a week skip (pun not intended). We could easily flip them around, switch the arrivals of certain characters, and with localization thrown in, we wouldn't know the difference.

I disagree. While GK didn't develop Edgeworth's character that much and more existed for Kay's sake, GK2 was a huge turning point for Edgeworth. Going from GK2 Edgeworth into GK Edgeworth would be a giant step backwards. At least GK had him start thinking like a defense attorney and then they turned that into an actual dilemma in GK2

Baaaaaggh... I didn't favor Edgeworth becoming so hesitant over his job. The "final" phase of his character was already well established by JFA, and strongly preserved in T&T. In fact, it feels like he almost de-evolved just so the game could have some sort of dilemma for him. Yet, why choose the subject of what it means to be a prosecutor? He's had 7 years by this point to think about it. The greatest change in his character already happened, so this time, it doesn't seem so... inspirational. You don't usually expect the second-time revival to be as triumphant. (The 4th and 5th times, however, are a different story altogether.)

Still, GK2 is Miles better off from the Edge of GK1 for what it's Worth. :sahwit:
Nah, I'm not hatin' on either of them; I'm just worried over my current level of Japanese comprehension. The more I learn, the less I can keep, sometimes...
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Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Spoiler:
In hindsight, I suppose I was a little harsh on the critique, but what I remember most from my experience playing through the latter half of that case, before the "big reveal", was mainly boredom and frustration with my internet connection because I needed the help of a dictionary as I played. It was a time when I wasn't as familiar with the language, so I may have missed out on a few crucial details or jokes on the way.

Also, I keep mixing up certain bits of case 4 and 5. I have to remind myself that the scene in court played out in the 5th case, and regardless, is still one of my favorite scenes to date. However, I did mean it when I said "rushed". Throughout the previous four cases, the big revelations were pretty mellow, and it wasn't so clear to see how they all connected. By the middle of the 5th case, I felt we were taking a huge detour to learn extra exposition just so the game could tie up all its loose plot ends. If that bit was better foreshadowed, I wouldn't complain at all, really.

And, well, I never really cared much for Souta in the first place. He came off as a quirky oddball that I hoped I'd come to like, but in the end, it wasn't until he made the 180-flip to psycho clown when I finally took interest in him. And again, the way the last confrontations dragged out didn't make the battle feel any more exciting than it had been at the start. Gotta love that "breakdown", though.


Spoiler: GK2 Case 4 and 5
I see what you mean by your second paragraph. Case 5 had so much shit going on in it and I felt like some stuff could've been moved to other cases, but then that wouldn't work because of the structure of the other cases, so the entire game would need to be re-worked

My main problem with Souta is that the Souta we initially meet is so radically different from the clown, that they feel like two different characters. When I replay Case 2 (another case I love), I don't feel like I'm meeting the Mastermind. With Ini Miney, her non-airhead self still had elements of her past character. Souta is one of my favorites (my 11th favorite if you go by that AA sorter thread) but if he wasn't the villain, he'd be near the bottom of my list

I did like the final confrontations, though. Much more well done than Alba's and a hell of a lot of revelations. I'd be interested to know if your opinion changes if you ever replay GK2

Quote:
Baaaaaggh... I didn't favor Edgeworth becoming so hesitant over his job. The "final" phase of his character was already well established by JFA, and strongly preserved in T&T. In fact, it feels like he almost de-evolved just so the game could have some sort of dilemma for him. Yet, why choose the subject of what it means to be a prosecutor? He's had 7 years by this point to think about it. The greatest change in his character already happened, so this time, it doesn't seem so... inspirational. You don't usually expect the second-time revival to be as triumphant. (The 4th and 5th times, however, are a different story altogether.)

Still, GK2 is Miles better off from the Edge of GK1 for what it's Worth. :sahwit:
Nah, I'm not hatin' on either of them; I'm just worried over my current level of Japanese comprehension. The more I learn, the less I can keep, sometimes...

It wasn't just "what it means to be a Prosecutor." He had to decide if it was all worth it. People like Mikagami were always on his ass and he had to think if his life would be easier as a defense attorney. He pretty much plays the role of defense attorney in GK2 anyway. He wasn't just interested in the truth anymore. He decided that he needed to save people who needed him
Spoiler:
Bansai's failure to convict Miwa leading to Souta becoming a villain being the prime example


Plus, Case 4 of GK2 wouldn't be as good if we hadn't gotten to know Kay like we did in the first game. GK2 also continued Shi-Long Lang's mission from the first game. It also evolved Gumshoe as a character. Putting GK after GK2 would be a huge step backwards with quality of cases and in terms of development for characters
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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Normally I come to expect this sort of thing from the third case, so I think it's better to just enjoy them for what they are and accept that they're probably going to be pretty convoluted.

In terms of 1-3, I loved the characters and the premise, but I honestly stunned that not one person even thought, 'Hey, couldn't, I don't know, SOMEBODY ELSE be in this costume?' How it was ever submitted as 'decisive' evidence is beyond me. I doubt case 1-3 would ever go to court in real life, but it was still fun.

As for 2-3... I didn't think the mystery or the characters were that bad actually, but the goddamn circus music that played basically everywhere really got on my nerves after a while. I think Moe got a bit too much slack though... Max Galactica was a ton more annoying.

...Yeah, you're totally right about 3-3, it was really boring.

4-3 was just ridiculous for me as they made SO MUCH OF A POINT about it being impossible to fire the gun without getting injured... and promptly arrest a boy with no visible sign of recoil injury. Riiiiight.

5-3 and I-3 were good, just convoluted and unnecessarily long. They did have some fun characters, though. I remember in both cases I decided to play the whole case one day, and each took me a whole day to complete. In other words, for a case which isn't the finale: too long!

I never played I2-3, so. I can't give an opinion on that.
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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I forgot another thing that I did like in Recipe for Turnabout: the new costume for Maya/Mia!
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I forgot another thing that I did like in Recipe for Turnabout: the new costume for Maya/Mia!


Eh... I personally felt it was eye-burningly bright. Also an eyesore in the overly-pink Trés Bien.

C-A
Re: The 3rd Link is the Weakest - even in GS5?Topic%20Title
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The entire decor of Tres Bien is an eyesore. Still, Maggey and Maya really pull off the look. Mia... didn't really fit, literally.

Speaking of which, was it ever mentioned explicitly that Maggey take over the restaurant after Jean was "removed"? It would explain why Gumshoe would even want to return there.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.
Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
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