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GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Since Dual Destinies pretty much fleshed-out Apollo's character even though the game wasn't centered on him, I was thinking that, since little ol' Polly has some unfinished business (alongside Trucy), what are the possibilities of Ace Attorney 6 exploring the relationship between Apollo the apprentice and Kristoph the mentor? It would be an "excuse" to bring ol' Krissy back, seeing as how we never got to unlock those Black Psyche Locks of his.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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I agree. He never got a lot of development over the history of the GyakuSai series. I guess that's why he's left out so much in Dual Destinies.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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While I do love Gavin and think he's one of the best villains...ever, I don't think he should return

Even if you don't buy into the various headcanons of the reasons for Gavin's black psyche-locks, his character made an eloquent exit from the series. In the end, he's just a seriously fucked up individual who ruined the lives of others and would've gotten away with it if it weren't for his misguided paranoia. His psychotic breakdown are the black psyche-locks being forcibly removed from him after he got humiliated by his protege, rival, and brother in a courtroom. We're not supposed to know why he did everything that he did because you can't place reason on the actions of an insane individual

He's just a sick bastard. I can't imagine he does much more these days besides scratching tick marks into his jail cell wall with his cracked, bloody, and nubbed fingernails
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
While I do love Gavin and think he's one of the best villains...ever, I don't think he should return

Even if you don't buy into the various headcanons of the reasons for Gavin's black psyche-locks, his character made an eloquent exit from the series. In the end, he's just a seriously fucked up individual who ruined the lives of others and would've gotten away with it if it weren't for his misguided paranoia. His psychotic breakdown are the black psyche-locks being forcibly removed from him after he got humiliated by his protege, rival, and brother in a courtroom. We're not supposed to know why he did everything that he did because you can't place reason on the actions of an insane individual

He's just a sick bastard. I can't imagine he does much more these days besides scratching tick marks into his jail cell wall with his cracked, bloody, and nubbed fingernails

I like to believe this, but why not address that properly and have them visibly broken? Are we meant to interpret that just as you did? Did the developers forgot about their existence?
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
He's just a sick bastard. I can't imagine he does much more these days besides scratching tick marks into his jail cell wall with his cracked, bloody, and nubbed fingernails

Silly JM, he wouldn't dare defile his beautiful fingernails upon those polished cell walls. He may be a condemned criminal with little chance of escape, not to mention housing a cracked psyche beyond repair, but at least he'll go out in style. As we heard about VK's death in JFA after his arrest, I believe we can hear of Kris' from Klavier at some point if it's still relevant to a case... or if it IS the case.

Scent wrote:
I like to believe this, but why not address that properly and have them visibly broken? Are we meant to interpret that just as you did? Did the developers forgot about their existence?

When Takumi brought up the subject in the first place, he was expecting the succeeding team to address it somehow. They did; or rather, they interpreted it one way. Through spite or not, they also left it open regarding Kristoph's locks by ignoring his existence altogether.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
He's just a sick bastard. I can't imagine he does much more these days besides scratching tick marks into his jail cell wall with his cracked, bloody, and nubbed fingernails

Silly JM, he wouldn't dare defile his beautiful fingernails upon those polished cell walls. He may be a condemned criminal with little chance of escape, not to mention housing a cracked psyche beyond repair, but at least he'll go out in style. As we heard about VK's death in JFA after his arrest, I believe we can hear of Kris' from Klavier at some point if it's still relevant to a case... or if it IS the case.

I... Don't think any of the characters would bring that up. Kristoph affected the lives of many in a negative way. Just saying his name may charge the atmosphere with negativity and make everyone in it feel uncomfortable. I think something along the lines of starting the second case in the Wright & Co. Law Offices, putting the television on and hearing Kriss' televised hearing could be a start for the conversation.

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Scent wrote:
I like to believe this, but why not address that properly and have them visibly broken? Are we meant to interpret that just as you did? Did the developers forgot about their existence?

When Takumi brought up the subject in the first place, he was expecting the succeeding team to address it somehow. They did; or rather, they interpreted it one way. Through spite or not, they also left it open regarding Kristoph's locks by ignoring his existence altogether.

I can't picture Kristoph being analyzed by Athena. I think his psyche would be so unstable that it might glitch her device into destruction. But Kristoph had a lot to hide, seeing as how he had five locks. Hell, who's to say his breakdown only broke four of his locks and he currently has one left? He didn't seem to harbor any sort of hatred, up until the situation led to that. He seemed like "the end justifies the means" type of guy (hell, Means has a high probability of being his mentor). I just think Kriss planned some things ahead, but there were small inconveniences that led him into acting on the immediate.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Actually...

Psyche-Locks breaking meant a person reveals and admits to their secret. Kristoph didn't reveal a thing.

His breakdown being the moment Psyche-Locks broke are just fanmade Rule of Cool, which has no support in canon whatsover.
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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I'd rather make the division that red psyche locks means you're keeping a secret from someone else, while black psyche locks means you're keeping a secret from yourself, so to speak, as it's a locked away memory.

When Athena's psyche locks broke, what she said was "It's all coming back to me... Everything that happened the day my mother was murdered..." and then she tells because it was in her interest that the people in court got to know as well, but I think she could have kept silent if she'd wanted to, as the "secret" i.e her memories was revealed to herself, making the mentioned theory appliable to Kristoph, who had no reason to share what had been revealed to him.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Nearavex wrote:
Actually...

Psyche-Locks breaking meant a person reveals and admits to their secret. Kristoph didn't reveal a thing.

His breakdown being the moment Psyche-Locks broke are just fanmade Rule of Cool, which has no support in canon whatsover.

It does have support in canon. Pearl said, "A black psyche-lock is like a heavy chain wrapped around one's heart. If it's ripped off by force, it could cause permanent damage to a person's soul"

Kristoph didn't reveal a thing, but his locks didn't break. They were "ripped off" of him
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Scent wrote:
I can't picture Kristoph being analyzed by Athena. I think his psyche would be so unstable that it might glitch her device into destruction. But Kristoph had a lot to hide, seeing as how he had five locks. Hell, who's to say his breakdown only broke four of his locks and he currently has one left? He didn't seem to harbor any sort of hatred, up until the situation led to that. He seemed like "the end justifies the means" type of guy (hell, Means has a high probability of being his mentor). I just think Kriss planned some things ahead, but there were small inconveniences that led him into acting on the immediate.

Well, it's not like we know how Widget's Mood Matrix actually works, but I doubt his psychic abilities are so strong that they'd cause it to explode. :P

There's no confirmation on what his breakdown actually means for those locks. He broke down trying to deny his defeat at the hands of his most hated enemy when he could do nothing about it. Yet, it does link back to his motives behind everything leading up to Zak's death. When Phoenix confronted him about them, the locks first appeared. Whatever his reasons, Kris was not ever going to tell anyone, especially not him; if anything, the secret itself revolves around Nick's involvement. Pearl's explanation simply reveals that his secret is based on a repressed memory.

Granted, those locks could have been ripped off by force when Nick dragged Kris into court, unlike how careful he was with Athena. He might not even be the same person as he was before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If Kristoph doesn't change at all from his last battle if he ever returns, all it means is that Nick failed to crack him.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Scent wrote:
I can't picture Kristoph being analyzed by Athena. I think his psyche would be so unstable that it might glitch her device into destruction. But Kristoph had a lot to hide, seeing as how he had five locks. Hell, who's to say his breakdown only broke four of his locks and he currently has one left? He didn't seem to harbor any sort of hatred, up until the situation led to that. He seemed like "the end justifies the means" type of guy (hell, Means has a high probability of being his mentor). I just think Kriss planned some things ahead, but there were small inconveniences that led him into acting on the immediate.

Well, it's not like we know how Widget's Mood Matrix actually works, but I doubt his psychic abilities are so strong that they'd cause it to explode. :P

There's no confirmation on what his breakdown actually means for those locks. He broke down trying to deny his defeat at the hands of his most hated enemy when he could do nothing about it. Yet, it does link back to his motives behind everything leading up to Zak's death. When Phoenix confronted him about them, the locks first appeared. Whatever his reasons, Kris was not ever going to tell anyone, especially not him; if anything, the secret itself revolves around Nick's involvement. Pearl's explanation simply reveals that his secret is based on a repressed memory.

Granted, those locks could have been ripped off by force when Nick dragged Kris into court, unlike how careful he was with Athena. He might not even be the same person as he was before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If Kristoph doesn't change at all from his last battle if he ever returns, all it means is that Nick failed to crack him.

I think this "memory" might have been a momentary thought that led him into paranoia: Phoenix could always find the truth, what if he found out about Kristoph's conspiracy? The thought of Nick finding out his scheme and someone "low" to him must have left a strong mark on someone that deems himself high above others and constantly feeds his ego.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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JesusMonroe wrote:
It does have support in canon. Pearl said, "A black psyche-lock is like a heavy chain wrapped around one's heart. If it's ripped off by force, it could cause permanent damage to a person's soul"

Kristoph didn't reveal a thing, but his locks didn't break. They were "ripped off" of him

To me that still doesn't mean that the locks broke that moment - firstly, they did nothing to break them - they just said Jurist System was initiated by Wright - nothing so secret-revealing.

It's not like the fact he had a breakdown is any confirmation. It is possible, but I felt I should point out that it's just an assumption :-P
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Nearavex wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
It does have support in canon. Pearl said, "A black psyche-lock is like a heavy chain wrapped around one's heart. If it's ripped off by force, it could cause permanent damage to a person's soul"

Kristoph didn't reveal a thing, but his locks didn't break. They were "ripped off" of him

To me that still doesn't mean that the locks broke that moment - firstly, they did nothing to break them - they just said Jurist System was initiated by Wright - nothing so secret-revealing.

It's not like the fact he had a breakdown is any confirmation. It is possible, but I felt I should point out that it's just an assumption :-P

Unless his jealousy of Wright is that strong it was able to do that...but that would mean Kristoph would have to have been jealous of Wright all the way back to his days with studying under Mia...there is story opportunity for that however maybe its best left unexplored.
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Gammalad wrote:
Nearavex wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
It does have support in canon. Pearl said, "A black psyche-lock is like a heavy chain wrapped around one's heart. If it's ripped off by force, it could cause permanent damage to a person's soul"

Kristoph didn't reveal a thing, but his locks didn't break. They were "ripped off" of him

To me that still doesn't mean that the locks broke that moment - firstly, they did nothing to break them - they just said Jurist System was initiated by Wright - nothing so secret-revealing.

It's not like the fact he had a breakdown is any confirmation. It is possible, but I felt I should point out that it's just an assumption :-P

Unless his jealousy of Wright is that strong it was able to do that...but that would mean Kristoph would have to have been jealous of Wright all the way back to his days with studying under Mia...there is story opportunity for that however maybe its best left unexplored.

Perhaps Kristoph wanted to be an apprentice of Mia's? Ace Attorney has taught us that every character has had a mentor (Edgewortht to Manfred, Phoenix to Mia, Mia to Grossberg, etc.). What if Kristoph was competing to be Mia's apprentice, but Mia selected Phoenix because of his commitment?
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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I always pondered that, it would make a lot of sense for the black locks, and it would make a good middle case in Ace Attorney 6 (Assuming it is Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney) but I feel like these are one of those mysteries that are better left unsolved.
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Gammalad wrote:
I always pondered that, it would make a lot of sense for the black locks, and it would make a good middle case in Ace Attorney 6 (Assuming it is Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney) but I feel like these are one of those mysteries that are better left unsolved.

That's a question I've been meaning to ask: GS6 will definitely be centered on the issues presented in GS4 that have to do with Trucy, Apollo and the Gramaryes. Will this game be called Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney or Apollo Justice Ace Attorney? If for brand's sake it's named Phoenix Wright, I'm sure it'll play a lot like GS4: the playable character is Apollo, but the story is centered on other characters.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Scent wrote:
Gammalad wrote:
I always pondered that, it would make a lot of sense for the black locks, and it would make a good middle case in Ace Attorney 6 (Assuming it is Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney) but I feel like these are one of those mysteries that are better left unsolved.

That's a question I've been meaning to ask: GS6 will definitely be centered on the issues presented in GS4 that have to do with Trucy, Apollo and the Gramaryes. Will this game be called Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney or Apollo Justice Ace Attorney? If for brand's sake it's named Phoenix Wright, I'm sure it'll play a lot like GS4: the playable character is Apollo, but the story is centered on other characters.

I think for the sake of the brand it will be called Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney, and it will probably play the same as Dual Destinies bouncing back between Wright and Apollo , I somewhat doubt Athena will get much time since she has been fleshed out completely in one game. I think Wright will star in about 3 cases, Apollo will get 2 and maybe Athena will get 1. However even in the two cases Apollo gets I feel like Wright will be much more involved then in Dual Destinies.
Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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I could see Kris's full departure from the series being similar to Dahlia's, in that he's executed, and his soul comes back for revenge. In which case there would be plenty of time to flesh out his relationship with Apollo.
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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CaptainCanti wrote:
I could see Kris's full departure from the series being similar to Dahlia's, in that he's executed, and his soul comes back for revenge. In which case there would be plenty of time to flesh out his relationship with Apollo.


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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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Kristoph seems more like the type of guy that, when things must be taken with extreme measures, he does them personally (by that I mean alive).
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Re: GS6 and Apollo Justice {possible spoilers inside}Topic%20Title
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There is certainly no real indication that Kristoph's locks were forcibly broken so while I think it's a cool theory, I don't subscribe to it. I wouldn't be against Kristoph returning but I cannot really see how without an accomplice of some sort, considering he is in solitary confinement and possibly awaiting execution.

After all, the only reason Morgan managed to put her final plan into motion is because she had the forethought to write that letter to Pearl ahead of her confinement. But who would ever try to help Kristoph now?

For that reason I doubt we'll ever see him again, especially now Takumi has moved away from the main series.
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