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Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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This is one connection that confuses the crap out of me. Did they use to live together? were they lovers? friends? all we know is that she's the daughter of Edgeworth's mentor. Maybe they'll explain a bit in GK?
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AndrossGanon wrote:
This is one connection that confuses the crap out of me. Did they use to live together? were they lovers? friends? all we know is that she's the daughter of Edgeworth's mentor. Maybe they'll explain a bit in GK?


It's pretty much explained in JFA...

Based on what we know, they knew each other well. The fact that Edgeworth was adopted/trained by Manfred means they probably lived together, especially since Franziska keeps referring to him as 'younger brother'.
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
AndrossGanon wrote:
This is one connection that confuses the crap out of me. Did they use to live together? were they lovers? friends? all we know is that she's the daughter of Edgeworth's mentor. Maybe they'll explain a bit in GK?


It's pretty much explained in JFA...

Based on what we know, they knew each other well. The fact that Edgeworth was adopted/trained by Manfred means they probably lived together, especially since Franziska keeps referring to him as 'younger brother'.



really? i must've missed that bit. i only remember her calling him by his full name.
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AndrossGanon wrote:
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
AndrossGanon wrote:
This is one connection that confuses the crap out of me. Did they use to live together? were they lovers? friends? all we know is that she's the daughter of Edgeworth's mentor. Maybe they'll explain a bit in GK?


It's pretty much explained in JFA...

Based on what we know, they knew each other well. The fact that Edgeworth was adopted/trained by Manfred means they probably lived together, especially since Franziska keeps referring to him as 'younger brother'.



really? i must've missed that bit. i only remember her calling him by his full name.

She calls everyone by their full name.
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Well, we can gather a little bit from JFA. But I think they'll still expand on it more. I mean, there's so much left unknown, right? I want little memory snapshots of Franny and Edgeworth
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I'd say

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Let's just say, the true nature of their relationship can bring forth some debate among fans.
Some tend to look at it in a sibling way, some the romantic kind.
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Franziska did grow up with Edgeworth and with a older sister. It's explained here and here
In my opinion I ship :franny: :edgy: and I'm writing a fic about their story and did some reseraach :ema: and found that :edgy:
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Yeah, with me, it could go either way. They have a sibling relationship in the games, but I think that they could be romantically paired without it being too weird. They have a bit of a rivalry going on, as well, though Fran seems to care about that a LOT more than Edgeworth.

I personally love their dynamic as siblings and don't ship them. I like the fanart, though, because they do look very pretty together.
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Much as I hate shipping, I've always been personally convinced that Fran's feelings for Edgeworth go beyond that of a competitive adoptive sister. The whole "younger/older" complex she's got goin' on makes me think that she's in love with him and her whole desperate need to surpass him is her poor messed up way of trying to get a handle on the situation. As for Edgeworth, I doubt he's really ever seen her that way, or even really as a rival. This was Franziska's obsession and Edgeworth seems pretty much oblivious.

I also think that her being under Manfred's control all her life caused some pretty severe issues in her emotional development, thus why she resorts to her tactics of needing to beat him: because that's all she knows how to do.

As for whether this will be addressed at all in this game, I highly doubt it. :keiko:
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I just can't get past seeing them as brother and sister :yogi:
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loobywright wrote:
I just can't get past seeing them as brother and sister :yogi:


agreed. but its cute in crack fics XD
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I think it's a flexible relationship, it all depends upon what someone defines as a "relationship" as. They weren't born of the same blood, making a healthy relationship possible, but the fact that they grew up together in the same household makes things a little prickly for most. Whether Edgeworth was formally adopted or just "taken in" also has a big say in it too. I don't know if they mention Edgeworth being formally adopted (if they do, please clear it up for me.)

I personally think of them as brother and sister. The confrontation at the end of JFA makes me wonder though. For me, Franziska saying "Miles Edgeworth...I've always hated you" translates into "Miles Edgeworth...there's something about you I admire, and I just can't put my finger on it, but I've known it was there as long as you existed."

And like Regy Rusty said, I think Manfred screwed her train of thought up pretty badly. Edgeworth's line of thinking was influenced by his father until age 9. But Fran lived with Manfred from birth. She's instinctively competitive, but you just KNOW she's hiding something and looking for refuge, romantic or otherwise.

TL;DR: I don't know if GK will delve into this relationship a bit further, but I hope that it develops into Edgeworth's past a bit more (e.g. the "lost years" between ages 9 and 19.) The whole matter of their relationship is a toss-up for me. And yeah, it does make a decent crack pairing. XD
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Regy Rusty wrote:
Much as I hate shipping, I've always been personally convinced that Fran's feelings for Edgeworth go beyond that of a competitive adoptive sister. The whole "younger/older" complex she's got goin' on makes me think that she's in love with him and her whole desperate need to surpass him is her poor messed up way of trying to get a handle on the situation. As for Edgeworth, I doubt he's really ever seen her that way, or even really as a rival. This was Franziska's obsession and Edgeworth seems pretty much oblivious.

I also think that her being under Manfred's control all her life caused some pretty severe issues in her emotional development, thus why she resorts to her tactics of needing to beat him: because that's all she knows how to do.

As for whether this will be addressed at all in this game, I highly doubt it. :keiko:


You just summed up my exact feelings of Fran/Edgeworth. Exactly
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as for me, i think of them as siblings. i guess franziska is just your typical childish little sister who insists that she has to be number one, so she's got to be the big sister no matter what. and edgey gives in (maybe because he's tired of her whip?) and let franziska think that she's the big sister...and somehow franziska still keeps that until she grows way old for that kind of stuff.
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On the topic of their sibling relationship: I speculate that the reason she refers to Edgeworth as her little brother is that he entered the family after her. She was two at the time he was brought to live with him, and I'm sure she was a smart child so logic not being a friend to that age lead her to steadfastly believe that he was the little brother. As they got older the title just fit and she never grew out of it.
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Lunaria42 wrote:
On the topic of their sibling relationship: I speculate that the reason she refers to Edgeworth as her little brother is that he entered the family after her. She was two at the time he was brought to live with him, and I'm sure she was a smart child so logic not being a friend to that age lead her to steadfastly believe that he was the little brother. As they got older the title just fit and she never grew out of it.

Ah yes, that's what I've always been thinking too!
I really hope we'll get some fun dialogue between Franziska and Miles in GK, and I would love Capcom forever if they included a few glimpses of their past in the Von Karma household :D
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I do think their relationship is just sibiling. There's not much of a basis for romance, in my opinion.

Since Franziska is confirmed for GK, I do hope there will be more glimpses into their lives when they lived together.
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I honestly can't see them anymore than siblings.

Besides, Manfred would probably be-head them if they were in a romantic relationship. O_o
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Darling Dream wrote:

Besides, Manfred would probably be-head them if they were in a romantic relationship. O_o


They can fall in love after their childhood you know. But that depends too of how you see Manfred von Karma.
For me, he was a bastard who didn't love his own daughter.
Miles and Franziska suffered too much in the past and, now (I mean in the present, where the game takes place) no one can understand what they have been through, except themselves.

That's my point of view.
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Indochine Ramera wrote:
Darling Dream wrote:

Besides, Manfred would probably be-head them if they were in a romantic relationship. O_o


They can fall in love after their childhood you know. But that depends too of how you see Manfred von Karma.
For me, he was a bastard who didn't love his own daughter.
Miles and Franziska suffered too much in the past and, now (I mean in the present, where the game takes place) no one can understand what they have been through, except themselves.

That's my point of view.


To be fair, we don't know much about the relationship between Manfred and his daughters. I mean, Manfred references his granddaughter and the fact she has a dog named Phoenix so maybe that means he pays some attention to them? At least enough to remember a detail like that.

I mean, I'd definitely say Manfred probably screwed Franziska's mind with the whole perfection schtick but just because he was planning to completely screw over Edgeworth doesn't mean he was evil incarnate to his family.
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
To be fair, we don't know much about the relationship between Manfred and his daughters. I mean, Manfred references his granddaughter and the fact she has a dog named Phoenix so maybe that means he pays some attention to them? At least enough to remember a detail like that.

I mean, I'd definitely say Manfred probably screwed Franziska's mind with the whole perfection schtick but just because he was planning to completely screw over Edgeworth doesn't mean he was evil incarnate to his family.


true. from what i see, i think franziska is a daddy's little girl. the way she refers manfred "papa" when the first time she met phoenix makes me think that she's a very spoiled daughter who always gets what she wanted. if manfred is mean to franziska, she'll hate him that she won't even care to battle the man who defeated her father in court.

and about franziska's attitude, well...let's say that blood is thicker than water.
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Darling Dream wrote:
Besides, Manfred would probably be-head them if they were in a romantic relationship. O_o


Hahahaha. :karma:

I'm one of those who sees them as siblings as well. They may not be biologically related, but for all intents and purposes Miles is still a brother to her, even adopted; and IRL there is the existence of a psychological phenomenon that seems to stave off attraction between those who grew up under the same roof, with the reasoning that generally those growing up under the same roof are biologically related anyway.

[/geek]

I like to think at least they can have a very deep and understanding relationship without it necessarily being romantic. Sibling relationships can be very powerful too y'know. :edgy:
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mikumo-hime wrote:
true. from what i see, i think franziska is a daddy's little girl. the way she refers manfred "papa" when the first time she met phoenix makes me think that she's a very spoiled daughter who always gets what she wanted. if manfred is mean to franziska, she'll hate him that she won't even care to battle the man who defeated her father in court.


Not quite. Actually, that's what Phoenix assumes it's all about during JFA. However, she later reveals that she doesn't care at all about her father's defeat (and presumed death). Instead, her obsession with beating Phoenix was linked to the desire to see and beat Edgeworth, who Phoenix had defeated. (Thus, by beating Phoenix, she'd be beating Edgeworth as well.)

aquachump wrote:
IRL there is the existence of a psychological phenomenon that seems to stave off attraction between those who grew up under the same roof, with the reasoning that generally those growing up under the same roof are biologically related anyway.
[/geek]


And yet also in real life and literature there are many cases of adopted siblings, particularly those who grew up with the full knowledge that they were NOT related (as Fran and Miles certainly would have - I can't see Manfred really making Miles feel like 'part of the family) ending up in a relationship or getting married. (The only one I can think of at the moment is in Frankenstein but I know I've encountered more.)
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
Indochine Ramera wrote:
Darling Dream wrote:

Besides, Manfred would probably be-head them if they were in a romantic relationship. O_o


They can fall in love after their childhood you know. But that depends too of how you see Manfred von Karma.
For me, he was a bastard who didn't love his own daughter.
Miles and Franziska suffered too much in the past and, now (I mean in the present, where the game takes place) no one can understand what they have been through, except themselves.

That's my point of view.


To be fair, we don't know much about the relationship between Manfred and his daughters. I mean, Manfred references his granddaughter and the fact she has a dog named Phoenix so maybe that means he pays some attention to them? At least enough to remember a detail like that.

I mean, I'd definitely say Manfred probably screwed Franziska's mind with the whole perfection schtick but just because he was planning to completely screw over Edgeworth doesn't mean he was evil incarnate to his family.






I thought Manfred made up that thing about having a daughter named Phoenix just to gain an edge over Phoenix during that situation. Maya and Phoenix doubted it, and I seriously think Manfred just made it up and doesn't give a shit for his children/family/offspring/devil spawn
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The Objector wrote:

I thought Manfred made up that thing about having a daughter named Phoenix just to gain an edge over Phoenix during that situation. Maya and Phoenix doubted it, and I seriously think Manfred just made it up and doesn't give a shit for his children/family/offspring/devil spawn


I may be off but I'm almost positive in the GS2 fanbook it confirmed he had two daughters and the eldest had a kid (I'm not sure if the fanbook also talked about a dog named Phoenix/Ryuu) so I don't think it's too far to believe that he was telling the truth there. Like I said, we just don't know much about Manfred's interactions/relationships with his family to say he didn't give a shit about them. Manfred may have had a perfection obsession and did horrible things to maintain it but that doesn't mean he never cared even the slightest about anyone else (even Hitler had something, his dogs).
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Wait wait wait...I thought they had a PET named Phoenix?

Don't remember details like that though so I'm more than likely wrong.
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Yeah. His niece's dog, according to what he said.
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aquachump wrote:
Yeah. His niece's dog, according to what he said.


Granddaughter.
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Jus to sum up. He has two daughters. Franziska and her older sister.

Her older sister has a girl, who has a dog named Phoenix. She's the granddaughter of Manfred von KArma.
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
I may be off but I'm almost positive in the GS2 fanbook it confirmed he had two daughters and the eldest had a kid (I'm not sure if the fanbook also talked about a dog named Phoenix/Ryuu) so I don't think it's too far to believe that he was telling the truth there. Like I said, we just don't know much about Manfred's interactions/relationships with his family to say he didn't give a shit about them. Manfred may have had a perfection obsession and did horrible things to maintain it but that doesn't mean he never cared even the slightest about anyone else (even Hitler had something, his dogs).


Considiring how easily Franny brushes of Manfred's death makes me think that she really didn't like the guy at all. Even if he was her father.

Regarding the topic: We are never informed of how long Franziska and Edgeworth lived together. Nor do we even know if they lived together at all. And I doubt The two of them really had much familial bonding in the,I assume, little time they spent together. Nor do I think a household run by Manfred even allows for that sort of thing.

So, I dunno about the people complaining about them having familial feelings for each other. This has really never been adressed or indicated.
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Noting wrote:
Robin Goodfellow wrote:
I may be off but I'm almost positive in the GS2 fanbook it confirmed he had two daughters and the eldest had a kid (I'm not sure if the fanbook also talked about a dog named Phoenix/Ryuu) so I don't think it's too far to believe that he was telling the truth there. Like I said, we just don't know much about Manfred's interactions/relationships with his family to say he didn't give a shit about them. Manfred may have had a perfection obsession and did horrible things to maintain it but that doesn't mean he never cared even the slightest about anyone else (even Hitler had something, his dogs).


Considiring how easily Franny brushes of Manfred's death makes me think that she really didn't like the guy at all. Even if he was her father.

Regarding the topic: We are never informed of how long Franziska and Edgeworth lived together. Nor do we even know if they lived together at all. And I doubt The two of them really had much familial bonding in the,I assume, little time they spent together. Nor do I think a household run by Manfred even allows for that sort of thing.

So, I dunno about the people complaining about them having familial feelings for each other. This has really never been adressed or indicated.


Edgeworth is clearly comfortable talking to her at the end of JFA (airport scene). This could suggest some time spent together when they were growing up.
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Noting wrote:
Regarding the topic: We are never informed of how long Franziska and Edgeworth lived together. Nor do we even know if they lived together at all. And I doubt The two of them really had much familial bonding in the,I assume, little time they spent together. Nor do I think a household run by Manfred even allows for that sort of thing.

So, I dunno about the people complaining about them having familial feelings for each other. This has really never been adressed or indicated.


Franziska does call Edgeworth "little brother" though, which makes you assume that they lived together at some point. And Edgeworth lived with von Karma probably at least until he was 20, when he was prosecuting "von Karma" style as the "Demon Prosecutor." There had to be some sort of time that Edgeworth and Franziska lived together, I'm sure.
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Robin Goodfellow wrote:
aquachump wrote:
Yeah. His niece's dog, according to what he said.


Granddaughter.


*facepalm*

Where the hell did I get niece from...
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crouton wrote:
Franziska does call Edgeworth "little brother" though, which makes you assume that they lived together at some point. And Edgeworth lived with von Karma probably at least until he was 20, when he was prosecuting "von Karma" style as the "Demon Prosecutor." There had to be some sort of time that Edgeworth and Franziska lived together, I'm sure.


Well, the ''little brother ''may just be a mask :p

Remember what grossberg said? Manfred Von Karma went on only 1 vacation in his 40 year career. I assume he went to Germany. Was Edgeworth already adopted back then?

Anyway, my point, If Manfred didn't spent a large amount of his time prosecuting in America than how does Grossberg now of his vacation habits? I think Manfred spent most of his time In America. Only going to Germany in the offbeat chance that he has some piece of business to accomplish there.
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^ maybe Grossberg was Manfred's loveeeeer!

Joke.


And the "little brother" thing, I don't care how messed up someone is, I don't think you should refer to someone as that if you have any sort of romantic feelings for them hahaha

And I just assumed that they all lived together up till when Edgey was about 20... so 11 years? I think.
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Noting wrote:
Remember what grossberg said? Manfred Von Karma went on only 1 vacation in his 40 year career. I assume he went to Germany. Was Edgeworth already adopted back then?


A career doesn't stop when switching countries. I'd say it's likely he started in Germany, then moved to the US.
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loobywright wrote:
^ maybe Grossberg was Manfred's loveeeeer


Dude.

We all know :redd: is the only one Grossberg needs.


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And the "little brother" thing, I don't care how messed up someone is, I don't think you should refer to someone as that if you have any sort of romantic feelings for them hahaha


I doubt Franziska is the type of person to glomp the person she loves and kiss him/her. If Franziska really was in love with someone I think she would try and hide it. Well, its not like any characters are in love anyways. Its all fanon.
Of course with exception of:

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:redd: / :grossburg:


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A career doesn't stop when switching countries. I'd say it's likely he started in Germany, then moved to the US.


But he had to have lived in the US because otherwise how did he know the language well enough to use in court? Besides this move would have taken place before Gregory VS Manfred anyways so its irrelevant.
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Tinker wrote:
Noting wrote:
Remember what grossberg said? Manfred Von Karma went on only 1 vacation in his 40 year career. I assume he went to Germany. Was Edgeworth already adopted back then?


A career doesn't stop when switching countries. I'd say it's likely he started in Germany, then moved to the US.


Also you can't exactly practice law in two countries at once. In the first game they claim Karma had a perfect 40 year record - there's never any indication that might include time working in another country.

So if you assume Karma spent his career in L.A. but Franziska was raised in Germany, we don't know how much time they spent together, or exactly where Edgeworth grew up and went to school. That's what happens when you don't plan ahead during game one >.>
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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I love their relationship, no matter what it is lol. Their exchanges in T&T case 5 were my favorite in the entire series. :edgy:

Aside from that, I think it is possible for them to enter a romantic relationship for the reasons mentioned so far. I don't think I've ever met someone who doesn't know how to express emotions toward another human being, so it's hard to say if Franziska's calling Edgeworth 'little brother' is how she really sees him, or just out of habit. You know, kinda like how in elementary school you get a bad nickname, but even when you're an adult, the friends who knew you back then would still call you by that name? That's kinda how I see it. I can just picture Franziska sit down one day and just suddenly reach an epiphany about the whole thing. XD;
Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title

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I am trying to write a fic, which won't really concentrate on the Franziska/edgeworth dynamic, but much of it occurs in the time of JfA. However, as I started writing it, I found myself really caught up in their relationship, wondering about when they grew up, how they relate to each other now, etc. Now I want to include more in it. I had some nice stuff worked out, having been blissfully unaware of the JfA ending scene, since I bypassed the credits at the time I played it. But I just saw the scene, and the "I always hated you" bit just kind of ruined what I wanted to do, while the way that Edgeworth acted fit right in with what I was doing. So now I need a way to interpret that that still reflects the kind of relationship that I was building. It's a strictly platonic relationship, where they have a very close friendship/understanding of each other. It was really how I read the relationship, until I saw that scene. I guess I'll just have to interpret it to suit my purposes. I mean, as a wright/edgeworth story, it's already based on personal interpretation, rather than anything that's supported in the games anyway.
Anyway, I keep seeing references to Franziska referring to Miles as her "little brother." Where exactly does this happen? I have only played the first two games and part of the second, so maybe I haven't seen it yet?
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