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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Franny is a women that's thirst for satisfaction is beyond human... Maybe superhuman. Anywho, she treats Edgeworth like a little brother even though Edgeworth is older than her AND they have the same amount of years as prosecutors.

Spoiler:
In T&T Franziska told Edgeworth that maybe the satisfaction she was looking for was to defeat Miles Edgeworth.

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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title

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Well based on what she says in the end of 2-4 I'd say she hates his guts.
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LuminousXMI wrote:
Well based on what she says in the end of 2-4 I'd say she hates his guts.


But the thing is, we can't tell if she really means it. Edgeworth is obviously really close to her. If she hated his guts, would she really be so jealous of the guy who beat him and would she really be so obsessed with his defeat?

Lots of younger sisters can act like that...
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title

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Yeah, I kind of wish people would just say what they mean.
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LuminousXMI wrote:
Yeah, I kind of wish people would just say what they mean.


Women especially never say what they really mean. It's all riddles and guessing for the most part.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Women, especially those raised by the crazy mind of Von Karma, wouldn't even know how to say what they really mean. I'd imagine that kind of upbringing would turn her emotional perception backwards and upside down so that she wouldn't know what to do if she ever felt positive emotions.
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Basically. You cannot take whatever Franziska says literally (or at face value.)
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Aevitas wrote:
Women, especially those raised by the crazy mind of Von Karma, wouldn't even know how to say what they really mean. I'd imagine that kind of upbringing would turn her emotional perception backwards and upside down so that she wouldn't know what to do if she ever felt positive emotions.


I agree with you. All relationships are not existing in the von Karma's world.
Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Personally, I can't see a pairing of Franziska/Edgeworth to work, simply because of the backstory they've been given.

Yes, they're only siblings by law, but I think they both treat each other like siblings.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Well, I guess if you veiw it from a "brother-sister" Point of veiw, then the couple seems odd an incesty(New word!!!)
But if you're thinking, "ADOPTED brother-sister" It's not so strange.
Still, it's hard to imagine them falling for each other knowing that they're legally family.
But it's a cute couple nonetheless... XD

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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Not sure if I ever said this before. But I can totally imagine Franziska having a little girl crush on Edgeworth when she was very little. But when Edgeworth completely shunned her, she got supremely pissed off at him and started to make her own imaginary rivalry with him.

By the way, I seriously believe Edgeworth would be the best older brother ever when no one was looking. Especially when he first came to the Von Karma residence.

Franziska would be the demon little sister from hell, though.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Celestina wrote:
Still, it's hard to imagine them falling for each other knowing that they're legally family.


It doesn't say anywhere in the games that they're legalized family. That's where all the argument comes in, and it leaves a whole lot of creative ideas for writers. The closest we ever get to the familial reference is that Franziska said that Edgeworth was "like a brother" to her, but it doesn't even mean there's anything on paper. And we already discussed that since when did she know so much about feelings anyway, growing up in the Von Karma household? XD If any of you have seen the Ouran High School Host Club anime, the Tamaki character mistakes his affection for Haruhi as the affection he would have as a father/daughter relationship (training her up as a host and all that), when in reality he was really crushing on her big time. Part of me can't help but feel that this is Franziska's dilemma right here as she's "training Edgeworth to be a prosecutor," just because it's quite adorable to think of her in that predicament. XD (omg someone write a fic about this!)

Another note on the legal thing, I'm under the impression that Edgeworth wasn't adopted because his name wasn't changed to Von Karma. He never addressed Von Karma as his father or even legal guardian, he was always called his mentor, and "he taught him everything he knows". Not to mention Von Karma hates his guts (especially seen when you talk to him about Edgeworth in the evidence room in 1-5), so I couldn't see him really inviting him into the family and sharing his name.

With that insight, I can imagine Edgeworth as being the pupil that just happens to live under their roof and Von Karma uses him as rivalry fodder for Franziska to push herself to perfection, while at the same time exacting his revenge.

@SaraVera: I agree, Edgeworth would be an adorable older brother-type figure to have around. I can imagine him sneaking around Von Karma's watchful eyes to do "older brother stuff" with Franziska. XD


Last edited by Aevitas on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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there's more...than meets the eye.

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Aevitas wrote:
Another note on the legal thing, I'm under the impression that Edgeworth wasn't adopted because his name wasn't changed to Von Karma. He never addressed Von Karma as his father or even adopted guardian, he was always called his mentor, and "he taught him everything he knows". Not to mention Von Karma hates his guts (especially seen when you talk to him about Edgeworth in the evidence room in 1-5), so I couldn't see him really inviting him into the family and sharing his name.


I always thought that too. Dahlia, a legally adopted character, acquired the last name of Hawthorne from her adoption. But Edgeworth stayed as Edgeworth, which leads me to believe that he was just taken in. Therefore, it's pretty plausible for Edgey's relationship with Fran to extend beyond the platonic without being incestuous. I siezed the opportunity and asked my biology teacher about this, since we're studying meiosis and the subject came up somehow, and he said the same thing.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Aevitas wrote:

@SaraVera: I agree, Edgeworth would be an adorable older brother-type figure to have around. I can imagine him sneaking around Von Karma's watchful eyes to do "older brother stuff" with Franziska. XD


But then as he grows older he starts becoming Jerkworth and Franziska is abandoned and becomes sad.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title

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Didn't she basically say that at the end of JFA, when she talks about being in his shadow? She probably got pissed off when he left for America when she was 13 because she was left alone with her father, who isn't exactly the affectionate type.

I wonder if Franziska and her sister and niece are close?
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moonfall wrote:
I wonder if Franziska and her sister and niece are close?


Aww it would be so sweet if she was close to her big sis <3
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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I think that Franziska has a fairly average relationship with her older sister until her sister had a child. Franziska got jealous and was sad. :(
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Imo I think Franziska and Edgeworth was like Siblings. Because Franziska is Lesbian and wants Adrian. If you want some arguments then check in the Adrian Andrews lesbian or LESBIAN thread.

(plz dont start yell at me. I wasnt complete serious with my post but i do support Franny x Adrian.)
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Personally I think they could be involved romantically but they aren't, Franziska makes it clear that she still dislikes walking in Edgeworth's shadow all the time. But maybe all will be revealed in GK?
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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there's more...than meets the eye.

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franini wrote:
Personally I think they could be involved romantically but they aren't, Franziska makes it clear that she still dislikes walking in Edgeworth's shadow all the time. But maybe all will be revealed in GK?


I sure hope so. *crosses fingers*

But it is fun for fanfic writers such as myself when all is left to the imagination, too!
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franini wrote:
Personally I think they could be involved romantically but they aren't, Franziska makes it clear that she still dislikes walking in Edgeworth's shadow all the time. But maybe all will be revealed in GK?


I think the fact that
Spoiler: T&T
Edgeworth calls on Franziska for help during the 3-5 trial


proved that he thinks that Franziska no longer needs to walk in his shadow anymore and professionally they could be considered equals. After that, it would only be a matter of time when Franziska would see it as well and all would be well lol. :edgy:
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Yeah, that's a fair point.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Quote:
But if you're thinking, "ADOPTED brother-sister" It's not so strange.


All, right, you've hit my pet peeve; just because people aren't related by blood, does not mean they aren't family. There's more to family than DNA.


...So many people don't realize that. In my head, I try to comfort myself by saying people who pull the 'not blood siblings' cliche must be the only child in their family.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Crowley wrote:
Quote:
But if you're thinking, "ADOPTED brother-sister" It's not so strange.


All, right, you've hit my pet peeve; just because people aren't related by blood, does not mean they aren't family. There's more to family than DNA.


I totally agree. Especially as my husband is adopted himself. So, this kind of thinking especially hits a nerve for me. (And hence, why I will never think of Miles and Franny as anything but siblings.)
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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Crowley wrote:
Quote:
But if you're thinking, "ADOPTED brother-sister" It's not so strange.


All, right, you've hit my pet peeve; just because people aren't related by blood, does not mean they aren't family. There's more to family than DNA.


...So many people don't realize that. In my head, I try to comfort myself by saying people who pull the 'not blood siblings' cliche must be the only child in their family.


Curiously, you've hit MY pet peeve with the counter argument. :V

Is it not possible that both ways of looking at it are valid, and it is more of a situational thing than a catch-all rule?
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Crowley wrote:
Quote:
But if you're thinking, "ADOPTED brother-sister" It's not so strange.


All, right, you've hit my pet peeve; just because people aren't related by blood, does not mean they aren't family. There's more to family than DNA.


...So many people don't realize that. In my head, I try to comfort myself by saying people who pull the 'not blood siblings' cliche must be the only child in their family.

Incest is a very subjective thing. In fact, its legal definition varies with different cultures all throughout the world.

For instance, what if two consenting adults fall in love and somewhere down the line they discover that they are acutally blood related? What about if a man has sex with his sister-in-law's cousin? What about a woman who has a romantic relationship with a man who her parents adopted after she had already left her home? Depending on where you are, every single of of those may or may not be legally considered incest.

However, this is all quite off topic. Edgeworth is neither blood related nor legally related to Franziska. The only "family" relation they have is the period they spent living together in their childhoods. However, simply living together is not a grounds for incest in ANY society.
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Regy Rusty wrote:

Is it not possible that both ways of looking at it are valid, and it is more of a situational thing than a catch-all rule?


I'm so sorry I've made everyone so upset. I'm really sorry. I just wanted to say that the psychological effects of sibling-hood do not solely apply to blood siblings.

I didn't know it'll make everyone so upset....


I KNOW that being raised in different situations results in possible romantic feelings....


I'm so sorry for offending everyone; I feel so awful now. I just want to crawl up in a hole and die to repent. How can I ever make this up to you?

I'm so sorry..I really am. Is there any way that I can help? Should I try to delete my posts? Should I leave the community? I'm just really really sorry.

I'm not meant to be a poster; I'll go back to lurking.
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Crowley wrote:
I'm so sorry I've made everyone so upset. I'm really sorry. I just wanted to say that the psychological effects of sibling-hood do not solely apply to blood siblings.

I didn't know it'll make everyone so upset....


I KNOW that being raised in different situations results in possible romantic feelings....


I'm so sorry for offending everyone; I feel so awful now. I just want to crawl up in a hole and die to repent. How can I ever make this up to you?

I'm so sorry..I really am. Is there any way that I can help? Should I try to delete my posts? Should I leave the community? I'm just really really sorry.

I'm not meant to be a poster; I'll go back to lurking.


I don't think you really made anyone upset to be honest. ^_^;; They were just posting their opinions after you posted yours. I don't think anyone was posting maliciously or in an upset way or anything like that. ^_^;;
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Crowley wrote:
Regy Rusty wrote:

Is it not possible that both ways of looking at it are valid, and it is more of a situational thing than a catch-all rule?


I'm so sorry I've made everyone so upset. I'm really sorry. I just wanted to say that the psychological effects of sibling-hood do not solely apply to blood siblings.

I didn't know it'll make everyone so upset....


I KNOW that being raised in different situations results in possible romantic feelings....


I'm so sorry for offending everyone; I feel so awful now. I just want to crawl up in a hole and die to repent. How can I ever make this up to you?

I'm so sorry..I really am. Is there any way that I can help? Should I try to delete my posts? Should I leave the community? I'm just really really sorry.

I'm not meant to be a poster; I'll go back to lurking.

Woah, calm down there buddy. I don't think you've made anyone upset. Honestly, I don't see how you can have come to that conclusion. The only posts responding to yours were Regy's and my own. I can't speak on Regy's behalf, but it sounds to me like he was more interested in discussing the matter with you rather than yelling in frustrated disagreement. As for me, I just wanted to make a catch all post regarding the issue of incest as multiple people have posted regarding it when the fact of the matter is that the only way it could be construed that way is in Edgeworth's and Franziska's respective minds.
I don't think there's a single person in this community who wants you to stop posting. :butzthumbs:

Anyway, back on topic. As far as I can recall, Edgeworth has never given any verbal hint toward his thoughts on his and Franziska's relationship and we know that Franziska considers Edgeworth to be "like a younger brother", though I'm reluctant to take anything Franziska says at face value.
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I think that this relationship is not incest. They are not blood related and never will be. Adoption does and can not stop a relationship. For example, if Apollo were Phoenix's son (Phoenix is older, duh), and Phoenix still adopted Trucy, I would still ship A/T. (Yes, I know about spoilers) Because it would not be incest. I don't think I made sense there.

Anyway, the relationship is not incest. You want to know what is certainly incest, look at Kristoph/Klavier.
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Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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I totally agree with you. But I think people, and I can understand them, believe that because they feel siblings they can't be together. They've grown together and Franny is always calling him little brother that's why it's like incest!

But it's not incest for me, and even if all the world thought it was, I will however ship them!

PS: but incest is not that bad. I like Kristoph/Klavier
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Amy wrote:
I think that this relationship is not incest. They are not blood related and never will be. Adoption does and can not stop a relationship. For example, if Apollo were Phoenix's son (Phoenix is older, duh), and Phoenix still adopted Trucy, I would still ship A/T. (Yes, I know about spoilers) Because it would not be incest. I don't think I made sense there.

Anyway, the relationship is not incest. You want to know what is certainly incest, look at Kristoph/Klavier.


But adoption is legally taking a child in as your own. They might not be blood siblings, but siblings nevertheless. So, in my eyes, I would definitely consider it as incest.
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Crowley, calm down. What Seihyouken said about my intentions was correct. :udgy:

@crouton: I'm pretty sure Edgeworth was never legally adopted by von Karma.
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That's what we were discussing at the top of this page. And as Seihyouken said, merely living under the same roof is not considered incest in any society. Just as blood relation might not be the only factor that constitutes as incest, you could say that flipping it around that living together doesn't necessarily constitute you're family. Since we don't have much insight at this point about what their living situations were like, there really isn't any substantial grounds for anything canon, just speculation.
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Aevitas wrote:
I think the fact that
Spoiler: T&T
Edgeworth calls on Franziska for help during the 3-5 trial


proved that he thinks that Franziska no longer needs to walk in his shadow anymore and professionally they could be considered equals. After that, it would only be a matter of time when Franziska would see it as well and all would be well lol. :edgy:


Really? Because I thought of that as the exact opposite.

Edgeworth called on Franziska because he needed a prosecutor so willing to face in him court that they would not blab his background all over the place. Franziska was perfect for that - it didn't have to have anything to do with her skill as a prosecutor.

More importantly, like Edgeworth says at the end of that first day of court, all he wanted was to draw the trial out so that Phoenix would have the chance to take over later. If he really thought of Franziska as an equal (maybe even a threat) asking her to take the case would put his plans and Iris in jeopardy.

I think Edgeworth picked Franziska because not only was she convenient (and fanservicey) but because he knew there was no chance of her getting the better of him. By T&T she's grown a lot but she's still not Edgeworth-good.
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Personally, I'm going the 'it doesn't matter anyway, because it's completely obvious that she's a lesbian' route. Hell, I'm waiting for a 'big reveal' moment in GK where she comes out of the closet and admits it to Miles. *gets shot* :gun:

I doubt that Capcom'd have the balls to do that, though... :maggey-sad:
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Croik wrote:
Edgeworth called on Franziska because he needed a prosecutor so willing to face in him court that they would not blab his [list=][/list]background all over the place. Franziska was perfect for that - it didn't have to have anything to do with her skill as a prosecutor.
More importantly, like Edgeworth says at the end of that first day of court, all he wanted was to draw the trial out so that Phoenix would have the chance to take over later. If he really thought of Franziska as an equal (maybe even a threat) asking her to take the case would put his plans and Iris in jeopardy.
I think Edgeworth picked Franziska because not only was she convenient (and fanservicey) but because he knew there was no chance of her getting the better of him. By T&T she's grown a lot but she's still not Edgeworth-good.


Spoiler:
I thought he wanted to show Franziska the meaning of 'truth' - that truth can conquer all the tricks in the book, and at the same time give her a chance to prove herself against him. Of course, with 'truth' and justice on his side, you're right, he has nothing to fear from Franziska.


Anyway. I really thought of both of them as siblings, which makes this the only pairing I won't actually ship. I don't know if you've noticed it, but Franziska don't whip two types of people - one's little children, and the other's Edgeworth (well, most of the time she doesn't - I only counted...once?). I'll agree about the depth of their untold relationship, but...I can't bring myself to ship them. I've got a really competitive sister of my own and I've experienced what Miles is experiencing - so I can't imagine that Franziska is harbouring something other than - "Hahaha, I've beaten you, idiot."- kind of intention with Edgeworth. They look beautiful when drawn together though, and I can see where F/E shippers are going. Just that...I can't help but still think of their chemistry as more sibling-ish than not.

Of course, there is the other thought that one's a lesbian and the other's gay thing that is making me not ship them together...XD
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Err... I don't think my com will bring anything buut...
I haven't enough vocabulary in English to describe why I love them togethey. Maybe some other shipper of Fran/Edgey will help me... All I can tell you is that I found myself currently shipping them at the end of PW2... Now how can I explain that??
It's... it's like... It's the same for the fan of other couples, like Miego or Fradrian or Klavier/Apollo and other...
For me, they're...Well they attract me together.

*SIGH* I told you! I don't think my com will bbring anything. I definitely failed to explain why some people like them together and don't think it's incest! I'll pass.
Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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My OTP of OTP's. <3

Gender: Female

Location: Charlotte, NC

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:26 am

Posts: 9207

NinjaMonkey wrote:
Personally, I'm going the 'it doesn't matter anyway, because it's completely obvious that she's a lesbian' route. Hell, I'm waiting for a 'big reveal' moment in GK where she comes out of the closet and admits it to Miles. *gets shot* :gun:

I doubt that Capcom'd have the balls to do that, though... :maggey-sad:


Haha, I agree with this as well.
Thanks to .•°٭blinq٭°•. for the lovely sig. ♥
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"Note to Self: Don't get in crouton's way when it comes to Edgeworth. She WILL bite." - PhoenixFire
Re: Edgeworth and Franziska's relationshipTopic%20Title
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~Formerly Phantom Dream

Gender: Female

Location: Everywhere and nowhere....BEING AWESOME

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:42 am

Posts: 265

Indochine Ramera wrote:
Err... I don't think my com will bring anything buut...
I haven't enough vocabulary in English to describe why I love them togethey. Maybe some other shipper of Fran/Edgey will help me... All I can tell you is that I found myself currently shipping them at the end of PW2... Now how can I explain that??
It's... it's like... It's the same for the fan of other couples, like Miego or Fradrian or Klavier/Apollo and other...
For me, they're...Well they attract me together.

*SIGH* I told you! I don't think my com will bbring anything. I definitely failed to explain why some people like them together and don't think it's incest! I'll pass.


She just seems to have unexplained feelings for him, and he seems like he knows something. It draws us in. It reminds me of the Klema (shudder) pairing. It's just one of those complex relationship, and with Fran, the complexity is times 10. i don't think I explained it well, either, but whatever.
Sad to say, I've left C-R. I may still occasionally come on, but, y'know...
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
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