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Re: GK Contradictions (spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Croik wrote:
A better question would be, why WOULDN'T they go on a boat ride?

probably Nick is seasick and lost it first after his falling in Eagle River
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Where's your proof?

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PollyGramarye wrote:
Spoiler: Case 3
Answered. But no, he wasn't disbarred yet. AAI takes place one month before he loses his badge.

If I remember correctly, Phoenix told Maya they could go on a boatride sometime. :/ But it just makes me wonder why he would remember it two years later...


And that's where fan-fiction comes in! :P
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Spoiler: Case four
Sorry if this was already posted, but in case four, Edgey determined that the scene of the crime was planted to look like the two killed each other because the ink stain was on the hand opposite of the one the gun was in. Unfortunately, the victim could have been ambidexterous. :knock-knock:
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Zoo977 wrote:
Spoiler: Case four
Sorry if this was already posted, but in case four, Edgey determined that the scene of the crime was planted to look like the two killed each other because the ink stain was on the hand opposite of the one the gun was in. Unfortunately, the victim could have been ambidexterous. :knock-knock:


Edgeworth did jump to conclusions, but because he was ultimately correct, it's not really a contradiction.
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Got a couple questions for AAI-3

1. Kind of wondering how Troupe Grameyre was able to perform with Magnifi being in the hospital and all. I know they can perform without him, but it still had to be kind of distracting.

2. Couldn't the police/Interpol find out about the secret passages from the Gatewater Land owner? So they can use them to find the kidnappers

3. Speaking of the kidnappers, how did they know about the secret passages and the Haunted House Mirror trick?

4. Edgeworth, Lang and co. couldn't search the Haunted House because Ernest bought the deed for the Haunted House which prevented them from searching the place. Now, despite the fact that the chief of police told Lang to leave Ernest alone, wouldn't the fact that Ernest was Lance's father (giving a reason that Lance could hide something) and the timing of the transaction be reason enough to get a search warrant for the place? If anything, Lang should be on the phone with the chief of police telling him why he needs to search the haunted house since the facts have changed since Ernest talked with him.
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1. By then Zak and Valant had already taken over the show. There's no telling how long Magnifi was out of the limelight himself.

2. You mean the secret passage out of the kidnappers' planning room? Interpol didn't show up until after the kidnappers had emptied out, so it wouldn't have done them any good.

3. Uhhh I dunno, maybe Lance really really likes Gatewater Land?? There's no special reason they couldn't know, so it's not really a contradiction. It could be as simple as they snuck in once after dark and scoped it out.

4. Ernest buying the Haunted House was suspicious, but they didn't have any evidence to prove that it was related to the murder. You can't get a search warrant based on "I really think he did it...!"
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I might be missing an obvious explanation but I seem to remember this frustrating me. Anyone got a solution?

Spoiler: GK-5
After Lang takes a bullet in his leg by Badd's gun he just walks around as normal later on. Granted it's his lower thigh but shouldn't his mobility still have been affected?

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It's amazing what a combination of the brain canceling out constant pain, painkillers and being badass can do for bullet pains. With such a huge staff, it would be more likely than not that someone knew how to deal with it well enough for the time being. Besides, as multiple persons (Manfred and Wooky to be precise) prove, people can live on with a bullet in them.
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foxcroft wrote:
I might be missing an obvious explanation but I seem to remember this frustrating me. Anyone got a solution?

Spoiler: GK-5
After Lang takes a bullet in his leg by Badd's gun he just walks around as normal later on. Granted it's his lower thigh but shouldn't his mobility still have been affected?


It's because he's Lang. He's just naturally awsome and super human-ish.
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Spoiler: Regards to AA Case 6
I find it amusing that the Ambassador Alba commits a murder in the Theatre Neutralis. Neutralis = neutral = Latin for ne-uter (neither of two). And given how this is based on the common law, he did commit murder on grounds that he has no diplomatic immunity. So it's a bit of a contradiction that he still uses his diplomatic immunity even though he has no grounds to use it.
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Spoiler: AAI case 5
Bruce Goldberg wrote:
I find it amusing that the Ambassador Alba commits a murder in the Theatre Neutralis. Neutralis = neutral = Latin for ne-uter (neither of two). And given how this is based on the common law, he did commit murder on grounds that he has no diplomatic immunity. So it's a bit of a contradiction that he still uses his diplomatic immunity even though he has no grounds to use it.

> But at the time he was invoking it, everyone thought the murder hadn't occurred there.

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Spoiler: Previous comment
Ping' wrote:
> But at the time he was invoking it, everyone thought the murder hadn't occurred there.


Spoiler: Justification
Assuming he had taken law, one of the fundamentals of being an ambassador, he should have known before doing the deed. After all, only when did we get the conclusion did the pieces fall into place. However, I do find that interesting that he had all that time to commit a murder, clean the place up (almost) spotless and get back before a play finished...how long does a ruddy Steel Samurai play goes for?
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Spoiler:
Bruce Goldberg wrote:
Ping' wrote:
> But at the time he was invoking it, everyone thought the murder hadn't occurred there.


Assuming he had taken law, one of the fundamentals of being an ambassador, he should have known before doing the deed. After all, only when did we get the conclusion did the pieces fall into place. However, I do find that interesting that he had all that time to commit a murder, clean the place up (almost) spotless and get back before a play finished...how long does a ruddy Steel Samurai play goes for? :yuusaku:


> Of course Alba knows that he can't invoke extraterritorial rights on neutral ground. He's an ambassador :p
What I'm saying is, he's consciously lying, because he knows it's in his advantage to invoke them as long as the others believe the murder occurred in his country.
Regarding why he chose to murder the victim on neutral ground in the first place... quite simply, because he was driven by other considerations. Murdering him at this place and time was the best window of opportunity.

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Ping' wrote:
Spoiler:
Bruce Goldberg wrote:
Ping' wrote:
> But at the time he was invoking it, everyone thought the murder hadn't occurred there.


Assuming he had taken law, one of the fundamentals of being an ambassador, he should have known before doing the deed. After all, only when did we get the conclusion did the pieces fall into place. However, I do find that interesting that he had all that time to commit a murder, clean the place up (almost) spotless and get back before a play finished...how long does a ruddy Steel Samurai play goes for? :yuusaku:


> Of course Alba knows that he can't invoke extraterritorial rights on neutral ground. He's an ambassador :p
What I'm saying is, he's consciously lying, because he knows it's in his advantage to invoke them as long as the others believe the murder occurred in his country.
Regarding why he chose to murder the victim on neutral ground in the first place... quite simply, because he was driven by other considerations. Murdering him at this place and time was the best window of opportunity.


Spoiler:
However, in the same vein, he could have easily asked Manny to go to the Allebahst embassy and kill him there. I fail to see the logic in that vein. But then again, this is Ace Attorney and nothing is as sophisticated as the above anyway.
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Bruce Goldberg wrote:
Spoiler:
However, in the same vein, he could have easily asked Manny to go to the Allebahst embassy and kill him there. I fail to see the logic in that vein. But then again, this is Ace Attorney and nothing is as sophisticated as the above anyway.


Manny was already planning to break from Alba. Knowing Alba's ruthlessness, there was no way he would walk into the Embassy and willingly be alone with him. Might as well tape a "stab me!" sign to his back.
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Replaying case 5, and this just occurred to me:
Spoiler: Turnabout Ablaze
So, that commemorative photo of Quercus, Colias, and Larry had to have been taken before the Steel Samurai Show. After all, Quercus says "My bouquet was lying around during the show, so anyone could've taken the knife and killed Manny." Obviously if the knife was in the bouquet after the show, and therefore after the murder, that would not be a valid argument, so the photo was taken before the murder.

We can see in the photo that at that point, the knife was already missing its petal. Therefore, the petal fell off before the murder (and before Quercus even took the knife out of the bouquet). So how the heck did it wind up in the pushcart? I mean, if it fell off during the murder I guess there could be an extremely slim chance that it would pefectly lodge itself on Manny's person so that it could somehow magically fall out when Shih-na brought it out of the pool. But if it had fallen out before Quercus even entered the theater, how could it have gotten to where it did?

(gee, I sure hope this hasn't been brought up before)

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The photo was taken after the show. I'm pretty sure that's stated at some point. Alba's argument re: the knife could have been taken from the bouquet is still valid because it includes the possibility that the same murderer replaced the knife when finished. Which is silly, but possible.

The knife lost the petal during the murder and was stuck on Manny's body, thus transferring it to the cart when the body was moved.
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o.O That IS silly. It also means that the "real killer" would've had to take the knife from the bouquet during the show, use it to kill Manny, put it back in the bouquet, then steal it again after the photo to move it to Allebahst.
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The whole "Gun in court" shpeal in case four. How did Calisto smuggle (:D) it in? They established that Byrne couldn't bring the knife in, but how did Calisto bring a gun in? They check everyone before they enter the courthouse, and she couldn't say "Oh it's evidence" because Byrne had the gun as evidence. I can only think of one way, but even Calisto wouldn't stoop THAT low.
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Well, she is a master of disguise, she may have sneaked in as a guard and then changed clothes.
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Steel Turnabout wrote:
I can only think of one way, but even Calisto wouldn't stoop THAT low.

What way would that be? Murder the guards?
Say, that reminds me of a puzzle! Have you ever heard this one, Luke?
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Mask*DeMasque wrote:
Steel Turnabout wrote:
I can only think of one way, but even Calisto wouldn't stoop THAT low.

What way would that be? Murder the guards?


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Coffee Prosecutor wrote:
Well, she is a master of disguise, she may have sneaked in as a guard and then changed clothes.

Hmm...never thought of that. Wouldn't they notice a missing guard though? If she got the gun in from posing as a security guard, then they would notice her and thus notice the missing guard later. And besides, wouldn't people wonder how she came in when she showed up later in court?
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Having just completed the game recently, two things crossed my mind, one was the whole thing regarding the petal mentioned above and the other was in case 4
Spoiler:
The evidence bag with blood on. We find out that Calistio used this bag to hold the knife to stab Byrne so that her prints wouldnt get on the knife, and also so that blood wouldn't get anywhere on her.

But why weren't Calisto's prints on the bag?
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Adrian in black wrote:
Mask*DeMasque wrote:
Steel Turnabout wrote:
I can only think of one way, but even Calisto wouldn't stoop THAT low.

What way would that be? Murder the guards?


Tampon?

Yes. Not even Calisto could stoop that low.
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Coffee Prosecutor wrote:
Well, she is a master of disguise, she may have sneaked in as a guard and then changed clothes.


It seems like too much effort to do. Calisto could have pulled it off, but I don't think she'd do that when it could bring up so many problems.
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Quote:
4. Ernest buying the Haunted House was suspicious, but they didn't have any evidence to prove that it was related to the murder. You can't get a search warrant based on "I really think he did it...!"


Couldn't they have gotten a search warrant based off of the fact that it was the site of Edgeworth's kidnapping? Even if they couldn't prove a murder, they knew for a fact that he was kidnapped from there.
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Mr. Brown wrote:
Having just completed the game recently, two things crossed my mind, one was the whole thing regarding the petal mentioned above and the other was in case 4
Spoiler:
The evidence bag with blood on. We find out that Calistio used this bag to hold the knife to stab Byrne so that her prints wouldnt get on the knife, and also so that blood wouldn't get anywhere on her.

But why weren't Calisto's prints on the bag?


They never checked. They probably were there.
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Spoiler:
also if the bag was ruffled up the fingerprints wouldn't be readable.

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Okay, just read through every post in this thread. Surprised this wasn't brought up, because it really irritated me when playing the game, just how stupid this is...

In case five, there's a whole series of puzzles regarding the shadow of the Yatagarasu.

The solution to the puzzle is that this shadow is actually a combination of two shadows from two different spotlights.

Shadows do not work that way!

The light from one spotlight would illuminate the shadows cast from the other spotlight!

Specifically, they claim that combining the two statue shadows could look like this:

Image

In reality, it would look more like this:

Image

So I mean, at best, the "Yatagarasu shadow" would have looked something like this, and any viewer would be able to see two distinct outlines:

Image

I kept losing life because I was assuming that the second part of the shadow would have to be coming from the same light source as the first part of the shadow, because really, their way makes so little sense that it didn't even occur to me. :edgeworth:
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Nice catch, Luigi.

Perhaps, since it was only up for a second before the spotlights were knocked over/turned off, it was like that in the picture, but people filled it in themselves to make it a s continuous image? After all, the Yatagarasu's "wings" aren't in the exact same shape as the woman's hands; it was changed a little bit, (I'm assuming) since it was only there for a split second. And if everyone's perception could be changed in that respect...
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I'd rather say since the speculation about the Yatagarasu striking and the actual sudden shock of the event people's perceptions were skewed by fear, panic, surprise, etc. Plus you know.....the rumours about the Yatagarasu actually striking that night. People uncertain of the event (due to fear) would assume based on other intel that the Yatagarasu was there and it was the perfect shadow they'd seen.

But then I remembered that as a player you actually solve the puzzle and see the shadow as it should be.....so...damn
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Pierre wrote:
But then I remembered that as a player you actually solve the puzzle and see the shadow as it should be.....so...damn

So when you actually solve the mystery there is a cough-up, but in terms of what happened with the plot we can hand-wave it away :3
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Bad Player wrote:
Pierre wrote:
But then I remembered that as a player you actually solve the puzzle and see the shadow as it should be.....so...damn

So when you actually solve the mystery there is a cough-up, but in terms of what happened with the plot we can hand-wave it away :3


YAY PSYCHOLOGY!
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Bad Player wrote:
Pierre wrote:
But then I remembered that as a player you actually solve the puzzle and see the shadow as it should be.....so...damn

So when you actually solve the mystery there is a cough-up, but in terms of what happened with the plot we can hand-wave it away :3


The flash was brief enough to camouflage the separate outlines.
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Spoiler: case 5
Case 5 really screwed up the timeline for me. I'm sure it's supposed to take place after T&T, but Edgeworth's speech before the choice of whether to present the evidence or not. Asking what is law, what is justice. About what a prosecutor should be. It seems to point that AAI really happens between Ace Attorney and Justice For All as this seems like the most logical time that Edgeworth's views changed.

It's probably not a contradiction at all, but I thought it was interesting to bring up at least.


Spoiler: Case 5
I'm sure this contradiction has been mostly resolved, but I thought I'd put my bit in. Investigations has to take place the March after T&T because of a conversation between Edgeworth and Franziska during Case 5. When Badd gives them the picture of the 'Yatagarasu's Escape', someone (pretty sure it's Franziska) mentions how it's impossible because people can't fly. However Edgeworth says something to the effect of 'actually I've dealt with a case with flying people', clearly referring to case 5 of T&T. You do bring up an interesting point though. Please forgive me if I screw up or something, this is my first post EVER!

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Spoiler: Case 4
Before Young Edgey knows Young Kay her name age and gender are all ??? On her profile. But in the description of her it says,
A girl with a ballon.
That means Young Edgey knew Young Kay was a girl. But the gender is still ???.
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Pierre wrote:
davidbod wrote:
For the ending of AAI-4:

Spoiler:
I'm confused. We prove that the murder knew about the key/knife, and that the Yagaratsu(sp?) knew about the key/knife, so the Yagaratsu must be the murderer. But nowhere do we PROVE that Yew knew about the key's hidden feature, or that Yew is the Yagaratsu.

The game muddles this point up pretty badly - she says later that she was told about the hidden knife but she didn't need to... she could've just feigned ignorance and just thought it was a key in the same way that Badd and Faraday Snr. thought it was just a key too.

Yeah, ok, she confesses but she need not have done, right?...


I think AAI-5 will explain that a little but it might spoil it if we tell you now.


Actually I still don't understand it. Can anyone explain?
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Lusankya wrote:
Pierre wrote:
davidbod wrote:
For the ending of AAI-4:

Spoiler:
I'm confused. We prove that the murder knew about the key/knife, and that the Yagaratsu(sp?) knew about the key/knife, so the Yagaratsu must be the murderer. But nowhere do we PROVE that Yew knew about the key's hidden feature, or that Yew is the Yagaratsu.

The game muddles this point up pretty badly - she says later that she was told about the hidden knife but she didn't need to... she could've just feigned ignorance and just thought it was a key in the same way that Badd and Faraday Snr. thought it was just a key too.

Yeah, ok, she confesses but she need not have done, right?...


I think AAI-5 will explain that a little but it might spoil it if we tell you now.


Actually I still don't understand it. Can anyone explain?

Spoiler: Did you even beat the game? They spell it out for you
There are three parts to the Yatagaratsu: Byrne, Yew, and Badd. It's been a while since I last played, but wasn't the key hers or something? Even so, she would know since she IS the Yatagaratsu, even if just one part
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Steel Turnabout wrote:
Lusankya wrote:
davidbod wrote:
For the ending of AAI-4:

Spoiler:
I'm confused. We prove that the murder knew about the key/knife, and that the Yagaratsu(sp?) knew about the key/knife, so the Yagaratsu must be the murderer. But nowhere do we PROVE that Yew knew about the key's hidden feature, or that Yew is the Yagaratsu.

The game muddles this point up pretty badly - she says later that she was told about the hidden knife but she didn't need to... she could've just feigned ignorance and just thought it was a key in the same way that Badd and Faraday Snr. thought it was just a key too.

Yeah, ok, she confesses but she need not have done, right?...

Actually I still don't understand it. Can anyone explain?

Spoiler: Did you even beat the game? They spell it out for you
There are three parts to the Yatagaratsu: Byrne, Yew, and Badd. It's been a while since I last played, but wasn't the key hers or something? Even so, she would know since she IS the Yatagaratsu, even if just one part


Yeah, but the problem is:

Spoiler: case 4
Why did she admit, that she knew the key was also a knife?
Her first reaction was that she didn't knew the secret of the key. Then all of the sudden without reason she said: "Oh yeah, I knew."
Why? At this point in time no one knew (or at least no one could prove) she was the Yatagarasu.
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