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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I knew Yew was guilty from the get-go, so I got to look at her through the lens of "she's the killer all along." Even still, when she started talking about her sister I thought maybe she would have a justified reason for killing Faraday... but nope! She's just evil. Dahlia, eat your heart out.

The case got a little slow at times (see: the hallway), but was overall strong... even though Badd... started getting on my nerves. What with... the unnecessary pauses in his speech... which was already going slower than everyone else's. I actually didn't like Badd that much - he had his moments, but overall he just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Btw, I don't know if this has been mentioned already but...did you guys notice upon looking at Kay's profile(before knowing her name and age, that is), even her GENDER was marked with a "??"? Is Edgey having a problem telling kids' genders or is this just a fault on behalf of the gamemakers? :gant: Or maybe Kay came off to Edgey as a little boy with a samurai ponytail or something? :gant: :gant: :gant:
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I literally teared up when Kay started to cry. I wanted to hug herrrr! ;3; And I daww'd even more when Miles offered her his hanky. It was such a sweet moment. ;3; <33

And I dunno why, but I seem to have an eye for criminals. I had the feeling Calisto was the one behind it all just going by looks. Not too fond of her, but she has fantastic earrings, I'll give her that; it fits so well with her profession, if not a little ironic. And Badd. OH MY GOD BADD. I love how simple yet very effective his character design is. That guy just radiates danger! Strangely enough, I never suspected him of anything pertaining to the murder during the entire case despite his very intimidating appearance. Not to mention he has an awesome theme.

It was amusing to watch Miles and Franny's interaction. Not once was the idea that they were children sway while I was playing. Miles was always going "PERFECT! I MUST BE PERRRRRFECT!" and Franny, well... I'm just glad to see that she's toned down the whipping over the years. Did any of you see that part where he catches his reflection outside the window and he stares himself down? I thought that was hilarious. x'D

And as some of you have already said, yeah, he seemed pretty lenient in this, but once you realize he's aiming for a perfect investigation then everything checks out. If not, then I think this just goes to show how conflicted he is with his principles early on in his career; either seek for the truth or simply aim for perfection.
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Concerning the supposed contradiction between Edgeworth's principles in this case and those in PW:AA, perhaps this is partly because Edgeworth simply didn't bother going out to crime scenes himself in the PW:AA era? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall encountering Edgeworth doing investigative work in the field at all in the first game, unlike the prosecutors in future games. Gumshoe can cause grief indeed if one doesn't bother watching over him at all times. :eh?:
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Cordopia Over All wrote:
Concerning the supposed contradiction between Edgeworth's principles in this case and those in PW:AA, perhaps this is partly because Edgeworth simply didn't bother going out to crime scenes himself in the PW:AA era? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall encountering Edgeworth doing investigative work in the field at all in the first game, unlike the prosecutors in future games. Gumshoe can cause grief indeed if one doesn't bother watching over him at all times. :eh?:


Yeah, Franziska von Karma is the only prosecutor you regularly meet going out and inspecting the crime scene. She has the best work ethic for investigating out of all the prosecutors, although she still gets the wrong suspect because she doesn't have Phoenix's crazy-ass imagination and ability to find out the true killer because of a dime-sized hole in a sleeve.

Edgeworth drank tea all day, Godot only showed up at the crime scene when he was the killer, and Klavier just rode around on motorcycles and played guitar all day, showing up at the crime scenes by pure and freaky coincidence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Franziska von Karma is the best character.
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Icarus wrote:
Cordopia Over All wrote:
Concerning the supposed contradiction between Edgeworth's principles in this case and those in PW:AA, perhaps this is partly because Edgeworth simply didn't bother going out to crime scenes himself in the PW:AA era? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall encountering Edgeworth doing investigative work in the field at all in the first game, unlike the prosecutors in future games. Gumshoe can cause grief indeed if one doesn't bother watching over him at all times. :eh?:


Yeah, Franziska von Karma is the only prosecutor you regularly meet going out and inspecting the crime scene. She has the best work ethic for investigating out of all the prosecutors, although she still gets the wrong suspect because she doesn't have Phoenix's crazy-ass imagination and ability to find out the true killer because of a dime-sized hole in a sleeve.

Edgeworth drank tea all day, Godot only showed up at the crime scene when he was the killer, and Klavier just rode around on motorcycles and played guitar all day, showing up at the crime scenes by pure and freaky coincidence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Franziska von Karma is the best character.


Agreed. I think the only time Edgeworth went around looking for clues was in 3-5, with Gumshoe no less.
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Icarus wrote:

Yeah, Franziska von Karma is the only prosecutor you regularly meet going out and inspecting the crime scene. She has the best work ethic for investigating out of all the prosecutors, although she still gets the wrong suspect because she doesn't have Phoenix's crazy-ass imagination and ability to find out the true killer because of a dime-sized hole in a sleeve.


That's probably partly due to the fact that she is the most distrusting of America's police force (with good reason) and at times KOs/fires Gumshoe to take over the investigation herself.

Bolt Storm wrote:
The case got a little slow at times (see: the hallway), but was overall strong... even though Badd... started getting on my nerves. What with... the unnecessary pauses in his speech... which was already going slower than everyone else's. I actually didn't like Badd that much - he had his moments, but overall he just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.

I agree with this. Although Badd had an absolutely epic theme tune, there was too much that was implied about him that never came. Everyone was talking about how awesome he was and I was expecting some moment of pure awesome when all conceptions I had about him turned around, but...that just never came. There was the moment in case 5
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When I found out he was part of the Yatagarasu and he tried to shoot Shih-Na, but even then he didn't seem to show much emotion and his moment of awesome was quickly overshadowed for Lang.
I also don't really get his five different taking out/putting back gun/mirror animations with different equally retarded faces for each one.
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Well, this case was my fav' case in the game (I thought that case 5 was a bit too long, especially the end with the murderer). At first I was a bit reluctant because I was thinking "how Miles can search for the truth whereas he's still under the influence of von Karma?" But Capcom did a good job because in all the case he tried to find the perfect evidences and so on... SO I found this case great. It was great to see von Karma again, as well as little Fran, who was an interesting character, I couldn't stand Callisto Yew and her laughs as well as, at first, Badd and his slow talk: I did complain about him at first because he was always reluctant to help young Miles (Bratworth) who is SO handsome by the way. And I forgot little Kay who is absolutely cute, I just say poor girl: by the way the relation between Kay and Gummy are so sweet, Gummy is a big sweetie!

Oh and the Judge is awesome too!^^

Well as I said an excellent case, very interesting, with a good plot!
Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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I can't help but wonder, what would happen if Calisto Yew got hold of some nitrous oxide (aka laughing gas)?
Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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moonfall wrote:
I can't help but wonder, what would happen if Calisto Yew got hold of some nitrous oxide (aka laughing gas)?


She'd probably shit in her pants from laughing too much..
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Wait, Francizka is the only 'working' prosecutor? How do we know that? Phoenix is rarely first-responder to the crime, and from the amount of "I prepared for that possibility" that goes on in court, I think it's safe to assume once they find enough clues they're looking elsewhere, like the victim's ex-boyfriend's mother-in-law's new social worker.

Have to say, the whole Gumshoe/Kay thing was a bit touching to me. Maybe it was just Gumshoe being dumb, but he was LYING for a little kid's sake, in a situation which actually led to his arrest on murder.

Though it would have thrown case 5 into complete disarray, it would have been awesome if Calisto tried to run out of the courtroom, but got stopped by Gumshoe, who flicks a cigarette away, puts on sunglasses, and pulls out a revolver the size of his arm, then says "I didn't say you could leave, pal..."
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Katana wrote:
Have to say, the whole Gumshoe/Kay thing was a bit touching to me. Maybe it was just Gumshoe being dumb, but he was LYING for a little kid's sake, in a situation which actually led to his arrest on murder.


He does have a soft spot for kids under the age or at the age of 10. Look at Pearly. :pearly:

Quote:
Though it would have thrown case 5 into complete disarray, it would have been awesome if Calisto tried to run out of the courtroom, but got stopped by Gumshoe, who flicks a cigarette away, puts on sunglasses, and pulls out a revolver the size of his arm, then says "I didn't say you could leave, pal..."


This! I want to see someone draw Gumshoe like this for case 4! And suddenly I just thought of the Terminator... :yuusaku:
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Katana wrote:
Wait, Francizka is the only 'working' prosecutor? How do we know that? Phoenix is rarely first-responder to the crime, and from the amount of "I prepared for that possibility" that goes on in court, I think it's safe to assume once they find enough clues they're looking elsewhere, like the victim's ex-boyfriend's mother-in-law's new social worker.

As I mentioned previously, Edgeworth was never encountered at crime scenes by Phoenix during PW:AA. It's not unreasonable to assume that Edgeworth can make an argument to convict someone without leaving his office provided he receives evidence, witness testimonies, and other pieces of information from the police.
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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EDIT: Oops, thought this was Case 5 discussion thread. :P
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Cordopia Over All wrote:
Katana wrote:
Wait, Francizka is the only 'working' prosecutor? How do we know that? Phoenix is rarely first-responder to the crime, and from the amount of "I prepared for that possibility" that goes on in court, I think it's safe to assume once they find enough clues they're looking elsewhere, like the victim's ex-boyfriend's mother-in-law's new social worker.

As I mentioned previously, Edgeworth was never encountered at crime scenes by Phoenix during PW:AA. It's not unreasonable to assume that Edgeworth can make an argument to convict someone without leaving his office provided he receives evidence, witness testimonies, and other pieces of information from the police.

As any prosecutor in court would say, evidence plox.

I just say this because people are going on about the other prosecutors being lazy, and/or doing everything from their office. We have no proof against this, but no proof for it either. So we're just going to have to go off of simple reasoning. Yes, Edgeworth is not seen at the crime scene, and I accounted for that. Edgeworth gets the call from the police and heads straight over; Phoenix gets to see a news report several hours after the initial investigation has concluded (or in the case of 3-3, WEEKS after the initial trial!). It is REALLY not surprising you never find him there yourself. "Well, I've just been looking here for clues for the past 3 hours, and it just won't say Investigation Complete until I Deduce that one thing! Grrr!"
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Katana wrote:
Cordopia Over All wrote:
Katana wrote:
Wait, Francizka is the only 'working' prosecutor? How do we know that? Phoenix is rarely first-responder to the crime, and from the amount of "I prepared for that possibility" that goes on in court, I think it's safe to assume once they find enough clues they're looking elsewhere, like the victim's ex-boyfriend's mother-in-law's new social worker.

As I mentioned previously, Edgeworth was never encountered at crime scenes by Phoenix during PW:AA. It's not unreasonable to assume that Edgeworth can make an argument to convict someone without leaving his office provided he receives evidence, witness testimonies, and other pieces of information from the police.

As any prosecutor in court would say, evidence plox.

I just say this because people are going on about the other prosecutors being lazy, and/or doing everything from their office. We have no proof against this, but no proof for it either. So we're just going to have to go off of simple reasoning. Yes, Edgeworth is not seen at the crime scene, and I accounted for that. Edgeworth gets the call from the police and heads straight over; Phoenix gets to see a news report several hours after the initial investigation has concluded (or in the case of 3-3, WEEKS after the initial trial!). It is REALLY not surprising you never find him there yourself. "Well, I've just been looking here for clues for the past 3 hours, and it just won't say Investigation Complete until I Deduce that one thing! Grrr!"


Well, in 1-2, Edgeworth obviously didn't go to the crime scene, since you were there, and you just saw Gumshoe go there immediately and screw everything up.

In 1-3, Gumshoe admitted that Edgeworth had just drank tea and looked out the window mumbling "Wright, Wright, Wright..." And most of the things you revealed in court came as a complete surprise to Edgeworth.

Edgeworth in 1-2 and 1-3 was a lazy and arrogant prosecutor arresting people that had no motive and couldn't possibly have done it if he'd taken a closer look at the evidence.
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Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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To be fair, the obvious overlooking thing with evidence happens to all prosecutors because the game needs contradictions. Too often prosecutors stupidly overlook obvious things like a second bullet or a murder weapon left at the crime scene or something. (I don't have any specific examples in mind, just making this up). Godot did investigate in 3-2 and 3-5: remember the knife and brooch? The point is that all prosecutors are stupid and intelligent as the game demands. Often they won't see past a basic contradiction, but will have set up an elaborate trap for you ten stages later.

Now back to the real point, which is case 4 of AAI~
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Didn't anyone else catch the conversation between little Franny and Calisto in which Franny threatened to whip her and Calisto was like, "Yeah, sure. Sounds like fun actually"? I'm surprised that made it into the game, and also surprised nobody mentioned it.

One other thing I noticed - Capcom seems to have remembered to keep 13-year-old Franny's apparent left-handedness in most of her sprites, but not some of the flipped ones. Too bad, it looks odd when the sprite is just lazily flipped instead of redrawn properly.
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I noticed her riding crop changes hands constantly. *shrug* We'll just say she's ambidextrous.
Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I suppose being restricted to one dominant hand isn't "perfect" enough for her. :p
Re: Case 4 Discussion Thread - (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Geodude wrote:
Didn't anyone else catch the conversation between little Franny and Calisto in which Franny threatened to whip her and Calisto was like, "Yeah, sure. Sounds like fun actually"? I'm surprised that made it into the game, and also surprised nobody mentioned it.


Out of this game, that's what you're concerned about? How about Franziska speculating about Alba's penchant for cross-dressing in case 5?

As already mentioned, I really adored Calisto. I'm surprised there aren't more Edgeworth/Calisto shippers, considering that little gem of dialogue where she accused Edgeworth of being impatient and said she didn't really like that in a man XD Poor Bratworth, he gets flustered so easily.
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Not so much "concerned," more like "mildly amusingly surprised". And yeah good point about that other thing.

Yeah I liked how Callisto kept calling him out on his word/phrase choices, mannerisms, and...everything else. Now that I think about it, I agree with whoever already said that more people should have done that already. :phoenix:
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Nii wrote:
And as some of you have already said, yeah, he seemed pretty lenient in this, but once you realize he's aiming for a perfect investigation then everything checks out. If not, then I think this just goes to show how conflicted he is with his principles early on in his career; either seek for the truth or simply aim for perfection.

I think it's just the difference between being inside the courtroom and being outside of it. As Gumshoe remarks somewhere during the course of case 5, he is "always ten times as intense" in the courtroom. And if that's true now, there's no reason why it couldn't have been true in the past, too.

I just love, by the way, how Calisto keeps calling him out on his archaic language and mannerisms, and yet he blames it all on her being annoying, and never once stops to think that maybe he is the one who's weird. He's just too funny. :)
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What kinda freaked me out was when Calisto Yew just burst out laughing in the final confrontation and I thought (Oh she's just gonna go off laughing to jail)

But then she pulls out a gun, I was like OMG she's got a gun and she's serious
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Arti_Rei wrote:
Katana wrote:
Have to say, the whole Gumshoe/Kay thing was a bit touching to me. Maybe it was just Gumshoe being dumb, but he was LYING for a little kid's sake, in a situation which actually led to his arrest on murder.


He does have a soft spot for kids under the age or at the age of 10. Look at Pearly. :pearly:

Quote:
Though it would have thrown case 5 into complete disarray, it would have been awesome if Calisto tried to run out of the courtroom, but got stopped by Gumshoe, who flicks a cigarette away, puts on sunglasses, and pulls out a revolver the size of his arm, then says "I didn't say you could leave, pal..."


This! I want to see someone draw Gumshoe like this for case 4! And suddenly I just thought of the Terminator... :yuusaku:

Arnold Schwarzenegger is Dick Gumshoe. I'll be back, pal.

Anyways, I rather enjoyed this case. It had a nice plot and the characters were great. Callisto can laugh at me whenever she wants. I knew that she was the killer pretty much the first time I saw her. The only other person it could have been was Badd, but he is way too... cool, for... that. *sucks lollipop*
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