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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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The fact of the matter is, Shih-na was a member of the smuggling ring, so we had to find that out. Whether we found out that she was actually Calisto is a matter of opinion. But honestly, both Calisto and Shih-na on their own have weak, half-done characterization, so I think revealing it was the right thing. Also, since they don't even know if they're going to have a sequel...



Also, am I the only one who hated the way they skewed the opening scene? (W/ Edgey's dialogue?) I mean, I know they skewed opening scenes like in 1-4 or 3-1 to make it seem like the defendant did it... but this was just some minor little that didn't really matter, and we got to that point after 5 minutes. Ugh.
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FerdieLance wrote:
It's a word.

If it makes you feel any better, I lost a lot of Truth on the "evidence we haven't examined closely yet."

Me: "HMM, BIG HOLLOW STATUE? NAAAAAH. Let's present the documents! We haven't examined that closely yet! Huh? Okay, let's look at this untranslated card! What? Not that? HUH! Let's present the other statue - we haven't even touched it! Ouch! Okay, huh. What on earth is going on here? Durrrrrr-hurr-hurr... let's present everything but the BIG HOLLOW STATUE."


This got me too -- and I presented the OTHER GOSHDARN STATUE a million times. Oh well.

The trump card did get me my only real Game Over -- I wasn't sure if we had a split ending possibility, so I tried to coast through the rest of the game, on a health bar knocked almost all the way down from that hollow statue thing. Almost made it, too -- when I was supposed to present the pushcart I leapt ahead logic-wise and presented the dogs.

I'd been spoiled on Shih-na and that Larry and Oldbag cameoed, but nothing else, and whoa. I liked the long endgame -- it felt like the court battles get, even if they're kind of drawn out at times.

I do wish Quercus had called him on the illegality of the trump card -- perhaps had that be specifically called out to be what got his ambassadorship revoked, which doesn't matter whether it's legal evidence. Since that *is* what happened -- all the evidence actually used to convict was legit. But it was sort of glossed over.
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LittleGreenBudgie wrote:
I chose "Don't use the card", especially since Edgeworth and Badd made a big deal over the whole "The law has limits/no limits" debate. It seemed genuinely like you had to win without the trump card...then when everyone started yelling that I had to use it, I felt a little like they wasted a perfectly good plotline.


I chose to not use the "trump card" as well, then everyone started making me feel bad...and I thought I was doing the right thing! :larry:

Ah well. Everyone's already voiced my thoughts on this case, but I'll break 'em out again anyway:

-I seriously thought Manny Coachen was Will Powers when I saw his dead body, and I was like "What?! Nooooooo!"
-I figured out Calisto and Shih-na were one and the same near the beginning of the case. Just looking at their profiles side by side, it was incredibly easy to tell!
-Alba resisted defeat for ENTIRELY too long! I mean, I love an AA villain who holds out until the bitter end, but that was just pushing it a bit much!

Loved the picture at the very end of the game. Of course he's camera shy!
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shadowofedgeworth wrote:
-Alba resisted defeat for ENTIRELY too long! I mean, I love an AA villain who holds out until the bitter end, but that was just pushing it a bit much!

I think pushing it too much was what made it so great xD

(Of course, if you've played my fancase, you can probably tell I like overdone and stretched out cases)
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Just finished the game. The first half of this case was good, the 2nd half was murder. This case was just like 3-5 (Shih-na = :that-b-word:, Quercus = :godot: ). You thought it was over, but then it continued.

Larry: Still the total emo we know, and some love. Just like Gummy he'll never get a break in the games.

I forgot about Oldbag being in this case also. At least she did something helpfull this time.
Give in Edgey you know you like her :karma:

Had no idea Lotta made an appearance. All of the cameos were great.
Missle was a great suprise also. Provided a little comedy.

I honestly thought the case ended after the scene with Shih-na and Kay. Once that part was done though i realized the MdM2 murder hadn't been solved.
Speaking of Shih-na. I wouldn't have guessed she was Calisto (i knew about it before hand though so...).

As soon as that old fart of an ambassador said he was closing the investigation i knew it was him. God he pissed me off. Every time you think you had him he wormed his way out (Gant doesn't have anything on him). He kind of reminds me of a cartoon character i've seen.

Lang turned out to be a pretty good character. I figured he was going to be like Godot, but then he changed sides.

The question is; will there be a 2nd AAI? I'd definitely like to see Kay again.
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I loved this case but I got a bit tired of: "Oh no he's right I cant prov that."

HOLD IT! *sound effects* new evidence is here and then multiply that event by 5 or something.

I really didn't thought that Shih-na would be such an evil lady ;_; I didn't want her to be like that ;_;
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Can someone help me figure out this case? I'm kind of confused how it all played out.

Manny Coachen decides to kick out Alba as head of the smuggling ring by endorsing Palaeno as the Cohdopian ambassador; that would effectively end Alba's job, and it would also allow Manny to keep the counterfeit plates. He plans to steal the genuine statue so that Palaeno would have more authority. Alba doesn't want this, so he concocts a plan to steal the plates back and convince everyone else that Manny was the leader of the smuggling ring. Part of this plan includes framing the Yatagarasu and using the fear of him to get things done.

For whatever reason, they meet in the Steel Samurai dressing room where Manny ends up dead, the drop of blood lands perfectly on the Samurai Dog box. Manny brought the Yatagarasu key as a weapon. Alba loads the body into the cart and changes the knife back to a key.

Then, Alba takes the photo-op picture with the Steel Samurai, where we see the dagger already missing a petal; presumably the petal was with the body of Manny.

Alba then goes back to his room and meets with Franny, before having another photo-op with the Steel Samurai and steals his cart and spear. He dumps the cart in the pool, when Shih-Na sets the first fire in Babahl. Then, she races down to the pool to retrieve the body from the cart, and leaves the cart at the open stage. In the meantime, Alba comes back to his room to fire the crossbow bolts. Shih-Na gets the body back to her room, takes the wire out of the clock, switches the statues, then fires a clothed arrow to look like the Yatagarasu. Alba then talks to Franny a second time.

Shih-Na then replaces the dagger's sheath with the Babahl sheath, sets fire to the counterfeit bills, then dumps the body after the fire burns out. She then makes herself be seen by Kay so that she could arrest her when she sees her by the body.

Alba encounters MdM2 and beats him over the head with the statue, then wipes it down.He also altered the lights to look like the Yatagarasu to delay the speech he would have to give.

-----

This leaves me with a lot of comments.

1: Why did Manny plan to steal the statue, and then Alba go ahead and switch them anyway? Since Alba has the genuine statue, he would have more authority when the countries reunify.
2: I'm not too clear on why the Yatagarasu was used.
3: Why did you need so much evidence to arrest Alba? He lost diplomatic immunity and most of the signs already pointed to him anyway, without the "trump card." You might as well arrest him and figure it out in court later, as was done in all the previous AA games. =)
4: That's pretty sick timing with the cart. They knew the cart was going to be in the dressing room and that Larry would leave it with Alba.

Either way, I'm dizzy thinking about it. I'm probably wrong somewhere.
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kainzero wrote:
Can someone help me figure out this case? I'm kind of confused how it all played out.

Manny Coachen decides to kick out Alba as head of the smuggling ring by endorsing Palaeno as the Cohdopian ambassador; that would effectively end Alba's job, and it would also allow Manny to keep the counterfeit plates. He plans to steal the genuine statue so that Palaeno would have more authority. Alba doesn't want this, so he concocts a plan to steal the plates back and convince everyone else that Manny was the leader of the smuggling ring. Part of this plan includes framing the Yatagarasu and using the fear of him to get things done.

For whatever reason, they meet in the Steel Samurai dressing room where Manny ends up dead, the drop of blood lands perfectly on the Samurai Dog box. Manny brought the Yatagarasu key as a weapon. Alba loads the body into the cart and changes the knife back to a key.

Then, Alba takes the photo-op picture with the Steel Samurai, where we see the dagger already missing a petal; presumably the petal was with the body of Manny.

Alba then goes back to his room and meets with Franny, before having another photo-op with the Steel Samurai and steals his cart and spear. He dumps the cart in the pool, when Shih-Na sets the first fire in Babahl. Then, she races down to the pool to retrieve the body from the cart, and leaves the cart at the open stage. In the meantime, Alba comes back to his room to fire the crossbow bolts. Shih-Na gets the body back to her room, takes the wire out of the clock, switches the statues, then fires a clothed arrow to look like the Yatagarasu. Alba then talks to Franny a second time.

Shih-Na then replaces the dagger's sheath with the Babahl sheath, sets fire to the counterfeit bills, then dumps the body after the fire burns out. She then makes herself be seen by Kay so that she could arrest her when she sees her by the body.

Alba encounters MdM2 and beats him over the head with the statue, then wipes it down.He also altered the lights to look like the Yatagarasu to delay the speech he would have to give.

-----

This leaves me with a lot of comments.

1: Why did Manny plan to steal the statue, and then Alba go ahead and switch them anyway? Since Alba has the genuine statue, he would have more authority when the countries reunify.
2: I'm not too clear on why the Yatagarasu was used.
3: Why did you need so much evidence to arrest Alba? He lost diplomatic immunity and most of the signs already pointed to him anyway, without the "trump card." You might as well arrest him and figure it out in court later, as was done in all the previous AA games. =)
4: That's pretty sick timing with the cart. They knew the cart was going to be in the dressing room and that Larry would leave it with Alba.

Either way, I'm dizzy thinking about it. I'm probably wrong somewhere.

1. Alba switched the statues so that he could get the counterfeit plates and continue making counterfeit bills.
2. The Yatagarasu was used to cause a panic, since Alba needed to go to his office and switch the statues. When the "Yatagarasu" appeared, Alba was able to sneak out and go to his office.
3. Even if all the evidence points to him, unless you have definitive proof that leaves no room for doubt then you cannot convict someone of a crime. Alba had a very good counterargument that Edgey couldn't disprove, so they couldn't arrest him.
4. I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
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Mask*DeMasque wrote:
1. Alba switched the statues so that he could get the counterfeit plates and continue making counterfeit bills.

But Manny was already going to switch the statues, which is why he hired MdM2 to do it. He needed the statue to get the "real" endorsement for the new Cohdopian ambassador.
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2. The Yatagarasu was used to cause a panic, since Alba needed to go to his office and switch the statues. When the "Yatagarasu" appeared, Alba was able to sneak out and go to his office.

But Alba was already in his office, preparing for the speech. IIRC he only left his office to throw the Steel Samurai's cart in the pool. He went back after the play, met with Franny, had a photo-op with Steel Samurai, then dumped the cart before going back to his office. Franny said she met with him again, which would have to be before he killed MdM2 but after he received the statue.
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3. Even if all the evidence points to him, unless you have definitive proof that leaves no room for doubt then you cannot convict someone of a crime. Alba had a very good counterargument that Edgey couldn't disprove, so they couldn't arrest him.

That hasn't been true in any of the AA games. EX: 2-4, they arrested LeBlanc for having a bloody button in his hakama. There was nothing definitive about that. Here, he's seen with the murder weapon and that's already enough cause to detain him, plus his alibi is flimsy because he said he visited the dressing room where the murder happened.
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4. I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Alba had to know that the cart was going to be in the dressing room, that it could be transported without anyone knowing, that it would clear Babahl customs easily, that it would reach him easily, and that the Steel Samurai would conveniently forget it in his room.
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Alba's drawn out testimony might not be as bad as the negative impression people are giving. During it, I was getting super-pissed at him for constantly deflecting all accusations, openly omitting statements from his testimony, making constant moves to leave, and pulling bullshit out of nose. I say that's a good thing. It's more like a trial of patience and endurance, always thinking you've got him until he manages to slip out of your grasp; which makes it so much more satisfying when you've finally got him cornered and caged.
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To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?


I didn't really have a problem with him resisting. I actually loved it how he was all ice cold knowing that everyone knew what he had done.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?


No, but I still think it went on for too long. At the very least, it wasn't played very well. They made it seem like the end was nigh about four or five times! Do that too much and it kinda ruins the feeling...
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kainzero wrote:
Mask*DeMasque wrote:
4. I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Alba had to know that the cart was going to be in the dressing room, that it could be transported without anyone knowing, that it would clear Babahl customs easily, that it would reach him easily, and that the Steel Samurai would conveniently forget it in his room.

Larry didn't "conveniently" forget it in his room. He left it in the Rose Garden, because Alba told him to leave it there so it wouldn't get the mud in the embassy.
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shadowofedgeworth wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?


No, but I still think it went on for too long. At the very least, it wasn't played very well. They made it seem like the end was nigh about four or five times! Do that too much and it kinda ruins the feeling...


I disagree completely. Four or five testimonials from a final villain isn't so uncommon and the only thing to be even remotely put off by the constant interruptions during Middle, Part 2; even that plays out like an awesome 80s action cartoon, especially considering that it includes Interpol and The Steel Samurai family.
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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Four or five testimonials from a final villain isn't so uncommon


I said they made it seem like the final testimony was imminent four or five times, not that the final villain testified only four or five times. There's a difference.

In any case, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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I think we all agree that the showdown with Quercus was a bit excessive. It's just whether we think that was fun or bad :P


Anyway, I just randomly thought of another name for this case... "A Tale of Two Turnabouts" (Hmm... I thought the "Ablaze" really didn't cover that much of the case)
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The end of this case was very satisfying and the ending was so cute!!!

...I think I'm the only person who actually enjoyed the drawn-out Alba sequence. It was so impressive to see an Ace Attorney villain be THAT FREAKING STUBBORN. I kept thinking "Okay, so how is he going to disprove my case next?" and "Who's going to save me at the last second this time?" You had to keep going at him until you prove that there was NO WAY HE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT and that he was screwed no matter where he went.

It was kind of like hacking away at a stubborn old oak tree, if you excuse the lame pun.

Shih-Na as Calisto Yew TOTALLY caught me off-guard. I was audibly cursing in shock. XD Also, Palaeno is adorable and Lang is hands-down the best boss in the history of ever. :D

I figured out that Lang was going to use Franziska as bait to let them investigate at the exact moment that he indicted her. I'm surprised nobody else in the game caught on. XD

So yes, I really liked this case desite the length~
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Ugh, after Larry and Oldbag burst in to save Edgeworth, I half expected Phoenix to come next...

Perhaps I'd prefer it if I played it again, when you're allowed to speed up the dialouge. :P
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fatalfeline wrote:
I figured out that Lang was going to use Franziska as bait to let them investigate at the exact moment that he indicted her. I'm surprised nobody else in the game caught on. XD


I never caught on to that. All I was thinking at that moment was, "Hmm, well it looks like everyone from Edgeworth to Franziska knows the feelings that result from being falsely accused of murder. THE DEVELOPMENT AND CHEMISTRY IS TOO MUCH TO IGNORE"
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Holy shit this case went on so long I think I forgot some things.

It started out epic, but half way through the last half (3/4 of the way?), the showdown with Alba started dragging on like the final battle of Sailor Moon (Stars). There were too many "Aha! We got him!" followed by "OHHHHHHHHHHHH SHI--" moments. I think there were twice as many "HOLD IT"s shouted during the testimony than in any standard case with Phoenix. Half of the explanations seemed brilliant but were kind of canceled out by the all-too-convenient ones. But I figured if there was a piece of evidence that hadn't been presented much or at all, it would come up eventually. But damn, the very final piece of evidence irritated me in so many ways. Not that it was at all hard to figure out, it was quite easy... but it seemed like it took everyone in the game fifteen minutes to figure it out. As soon as Oldbag showed that box of Samurai Dogs, I was like "for god's sake that had better not be blood." And when it turned out to be, it was pretty obvious that it would turn out to be Alba's (considering his wound was the only thing not presented at that point). But. every. one. kept. going. "OMG MANNY'S BLOOD" and it just. grated. on my nerves. But I see what they did there, offering a tip of the hat to Phoenix, "Think of it in a different way and turn things around!" (completely unnecessary, but I should have expected it).

Well, that was quite a rant. I think that was my only bitching about the case, though.

I totally did not see the Shih-na being Calisto twist, though I did get a bit confused when she started laughing like her. And then I was like "...oh. Yeah, I guess." Lang grabbing her and bending her over was OMG STEAMING JIZZ HOT epic. I guess she wasn't lying about being the Yatagarasu, but I was a bit relieved to know she was just a spy from the beginning (though I guess that doesn't erase her sins or anything). And I love Shih-na's dress and I totally want a replica of it.

Lang... well, I figured he'd come around eventually and stop being such a shit to Edgeworth. He is a total badass for taking a shot in the leg and protecting one of his own despite the fact that she was guilty as sin. And then he came back like nothing happened! I was surprised at his little set-up of accusing Franziska. I didn't at all guess he would have had any suspicions about Alba.

Tyrell Badd... haha, now I can't unsee that pic. Thanks a lot, Icarus. :-P Didn't guess he was part of the Yatagarasu, but it makes sense. Sucks that he went straight to jail after his retirement... he was a good guy.

I feel sorry for Manny... how much screen time did he get again before getting stabbed to death? And what the hell he looks terrible for his age.

But I guess I feel sorrier for Ka-Shi Nou or whatever the hell his name was. It's one thing to be a poor imitation of a great thief, but to get murdered on top of that... poor guy.

Palaeno... not like all the smiling fakes before him. He really surprised me by being genuine from beginning to end.

Seeing Larry was a treat, for several reasons. I LOL'd at Edgey super-fanboying the Steel Samurai but pretending he wasn't, and then freaking out when he found out Larry was in the suit. And as cute as I thought the potential Larry/Franziska pairing from GS3/3-5, I wanted to see it even more after this case.

Wendy Oldbag... was entertaining as the Pink Princess. (Random thought, if Will Powers played both the Steel Samurai and the Pink Princess at Global Studios, wouldn't that technically make the "Steel Samurai Daddy" an impossible tale of self-procreation?) She somehow managed to be ten times creepier than all her other appearances in the series. Capcom really missed out on a great opportunity for some Franzy whiplash splash when the old lady kept on rambling. And for a very short while, I think I shipped Oldbag/Alba.

I did catch a couple of emotionally charged Lang/Edgeworth moments (well, emotionally charged is an exaggeration), and the slash I've seen is quite hot... even more so than Phoenix/Edgeworth. But to be perfectly honest, the more I play the series, the straighter Edgeworth becomes to me. There, I said it!! :beef: And it's not just the fact that he's hanging around so many wimmenz this time around, or that plenty of them seem to be crushing hard on him. He comes off as more of an old-fashioned, repressed British man than anything. But I suppose that is an argument better saved for a different thread...

This case was decent. Aside from a few flimsy saves by the gang, and the drawn-out battle with Quercus, I had fun with it.

LOL @ random Lotta Hart.

And extra lulz to the comparison between Edgeworth/Alba and the Steel Samurai/Evil Magistrate. I bet Edgeworth was SINGING inside. GAILY. In a straight fanboy way, of course.

Aw man, that reminds me. That kid who was singing the Steel Samurai song toward the beginning... since there is a Japanese vocal of the Steel Samurai theme, it would be so awesome if they came out with an English version. Though they'd have to find an epic voice...

Oh yeah, anyone catch the conversation Edgeworth and Franziska had about the Steel Samurai's appearance? I was surprised to learn that Franziska still had some leftover trauma from the Nickel Samurai case. Yes, she was shot in the shoulder, but since it had been a whole year, I would have thought the trauma would have lessened some. Could they be hinting toward a possible future case involving the Nickel Samurai or the man behind the mask? No one ever mentioned that Matt was dead, and it would also mean the return of [bias bias bias]Adrian[/bias bias bias]. Yeah, I know it's just wishful thinking at this point... there's no real reason to revisit it aside from some nice cameos. (And to be honest, I'm still a bit annoyed Mike Meekins had as much case time as he did in Case 2. I would rather they brought back someone useful... even an appearance from Jean Armstrong would have been a much better move.)
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I wonder what the ceiling and ceiling fan was made of. Because I wonder how the hell they was able to holding up a statue made of gold xP
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oddy wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?


I didn't really have a problem with him resisting. I actually loved it how he was all ice cold knowing that everyone knew what he had done.


Ayup. Most Ace Attorney villains give up too easily: you can just stare them to death. Alba was pretty awesome, even though it did start dragging out like a long Bleach battle with all the reinforcements and shiz. Kay's "Come on everyone, let's keep fighting!" moment really got on my nerves. I also was annoyed every time she talked about the Yatagarasu, because personally I don't think Kay has a right to call herself the second Yatagarasu. She was always talking about her "father's legacy", but her father never gave that legacy to her and Badd had turned himself in, which I interpreted as him wanting Yatagarasu to die rather than Kay so adamantly preserving it.

I expected most of the running in to save Edgeworth moments, although I was surprised at Lang manage to kill Alba's ambassadorship and the Steel Samurai rushing in to save the day was really one of the most epic moments in the game. I also really loved it when Badd was explaining about how the Yatagarasu was formed and how it operated.

Unfortunately, I can't help but get the feeling that too often in the game we were given a really cool, intriguing mystery to solve, and the game pulls us away and sticks such a blatantly obvious hint in our face that a five-year-old couldn't fail to get it right. I really wanted to try and solve the Yatagarasu of three people thing myself, rather than just choosing the most outrageous option like I always do. This case was generally better at that than the others, though, especially with the guitar pick knife contradiction. I seriously thought it was a guitar pick belonging to the Jammin' Ninja, and I couldn't find any evidence that corresponded to the Jammin' Ninja so I presented everything Steel Samurai-related instead...bleh. Lost a lot of life there.

Shih-na's breakdown and the moments after were absolutely golden, but the case lagged after that with the removal of its two best characters. It felt to me like Franzy and Lang were holding the entire case up by themselves, and then it sort of rolled along and ended. What an anticlimax :sadshoe:

I seriously expected Badd to be the ultimate villain at one point, and I still hold that that would've been mind-blowingly epic. Perhaps TOO mind-blowingly epic. Oh god, I hope they're saving it for the potential AAI2.
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
oddy wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
To the people saying Alba resisted for too long: He was being accused of running an international smuggling ring and murdering at least two people. Do you really think he'd just go "Okay, you got me, I give up" unless you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?


I didn't really have a problem with him resisting. I actually loved it how he was all ice cold knowing that everyone knew what he had done.


Ayup. Most Ace Attorney villains give up too easily: you can just stare them to death. Alba was pretty awesome, even though it did start dragging out like a long Bleach battle with all the reinforcements and shiz. Kay's "Come on everyone, let's keep fighting!" moment really got on my nerves. I also was annoyed every time she talked about the Yatagarasu, because personally I don't think Kay has a right to call herself the second Yatagarasu. She was always talking about her "father's legacy", but her father never gave that legacy to her and Badd had turned himself in, which I interpreted as him wanting Yatagarasu to die rather than Kay so adamantly preserving it.


That's an interesting way of looking at things. I always just interpreted it as Badd passing the torch to the next generation.

Oh, I forgot to mention... ALBA'S OBJECTION WHAT THE HELL. It was even scarier than Manfred von Karma's. I almost crapped my pants when I heard it. And when Alba raised his hand, I half-expected him to follow his OBJECTION! with TALK TO THE HAND. (well, you have to admit it would be fitting, considering all the delays and dragged on moments during his testimony)
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Adrian in black wrote:
That's an interesting way of looking at things. I always just interpreted it as Badd passing the torch to the next generation.


Well, he turned himself in for the crimes he committed as part of the Yatagarasu. I'd think that wasn't exactly a message indicating that he wanted Kay to continue on with those crimes...

By the way, was I the only one who was constantly misreading "extra-territorial" as "extra-terrestrial"? First time it came up I was like HOLY SHIT HE'S AN ALIEN?! That would explain the golden lights at the end...
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I just finished the game a couple days ago, and overall, I enjoyed it. This case wasn't really my favorite "game-ending" case, but it definitely had its moments. Mainly the ones with Shih-na's reveal, and Kay and Badd.

By the way, does anyone know when Lang catches Franziska's whip? And the dialogue that ensues when it happens?
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ammchan wrote:
I just finished the game a couple days ago, and overall, I enjoyed it. This case wasn't really my favorite "game-ending" case, but it definitely had its moments. Mainly the ones with Shih-na's reveal, and Kay and Badd.

By the way, does anyone know when Lang catches Franziska's whip? And the dialogue that ensues when it happens?

It's in the Allebahstian embassy after he accuses her, and I don't remember the dialogue but I don't believe they reference it or anything like that.

EDIT: 9:40 on this video
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I didn't see Lang's ulterior motive with Franziska, but I wasn't thinking "Oh, no, Franziska's really in trouble now!" I was thinking, "Ugh, come on, Lang, don't be an idiot." One thing I didn't like about that part was how Franziska acted. She was getting accused, so she should have either a) defended herself more or b) realized what Lang was doing and played along. I would have preferred b, because it would have been funny for Franziska to realize something before Edgeworth does.
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Icarus wrote:
I didn't see Lang's ulterior motive with Franziska, but I wasn't thinking "Oh, no, Franziska's really in trouble now!" I was thinking, "Ugh, come on, Lang, don't be an idiot." One thing I didn't like about that part was how Franziska acted. She was getting accused, so she should have either a) defended herself more or b) realized what Lang was doing and played along. I would have preferred b, because it would have been funny for Franziska to realize something before Edgeworth does.


I got Lang's ulterior motive, and yeah, it would've been brilliant if Franzy played along. I think it's a pretty key point in her character development though, because she worked with Lang a lot and they seemed to have a pretty good relationship. It was probably a big blow to her pride when he accused her. Also how Edgeworth really didn't seem to care much =P
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kainzero wrote:
Mask*DeMasque wrote:
1. Alba switched the statues so that he could get the counterfeit plates and continue making counterfeit bills.

But Manny was already going to switch the statues, which is why he hired MdM2 to do it. He needed the statue to get the "real" endorsement for the new Cohdopian ambassador.
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2. The Yatagarasu was used to cause a panic, since Alba needed to go to his office and switch the statues. When the "Yatagarasu" appeared, Alba was able to sneak out and go to his office.

But Alba was already in his office, preparing for the speech. IIRC he only left his office to throw the Steel Samurai's cart in the pool. He went back after the play, met with Franny, had a photo-op with Steel Samurai, then dumped the cart before going back to his office. Franny said she met with him again, which would have to be before he killed MdM2 but after he received the statue.
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3. Even if all the evidence points to him, unless you have definitive proof that leaves no room for doubt then you cannot convict someone of a crime. Alba had a very good counterargument that Edgey couldn't disprove, so they couldn't arrest him.

That hasn't been true in any of the AA games. EX: 2-4, they arrested LeBlanc for having a bloody button in his hakama. There was nothing definitive about that. Here, he's seen with the murder weapon and that's already enough cause to detain him, plus his alibi is flimsy because he said he visited the dressing room where the murder happened.
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4. I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Alba had to know that the cart was going to be in the dressing room, that it could be transported without anyone knowing, that it would clear Babahl customs easily, that it would reach him easily, and that the Steel Samurai would conveniently forget it in his room.

1. Manny was not going to switch the statues. He was going to steal the Allebahstian statue. That's it. They would have both statues in Babahl. No switching involved.
2. Franzy met with him before he killed DeMasque II and BEFORE he switched the statues. Franzy said that all the passionflowers were still there. He couldn't've switched the statues yet. Yatagarasu was used because people would think that he killed Manny (since the Yatagarasu had been on the smuggling ring's tail, now he finally accomplished what he had set out to do. Okay, I admit it. I was wrong the first time.
3. LaBlanc wasn't in 2-4, and he was never arrested. The photo of Alba with the flowers had the Allehbahstian knife handle in it. Coachen was found with a knife with a Babahlese handle on it. Plus, there was still no definitive proof that he killed Manny. In the other AA games they arrest people because those people can't come up with counterarguments, but Alba is coming up with good counterarguments all the time, so they can't arrest him until they disprove his counterargument.
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Mask*DeMasque wrote:
3. LaBlanc wasn't in 2-4, and he was never arrested.


He obviously meant Engarde and got the French sounding names mixed up.


And, yeah, the final boss was annoying and should have been done better, but it would have been unsatisfying to just say, "Well we've got pretty good evidence on you, we'll do the rest in court." *ROLL CREDITS*.
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Icarus wrote:
Mask*DeMasque wrote:
3. LaBlanc wasn't in 2-4, and he was never arrested.


He obviously meant Engarde and got the French sounding names mixed up.


And, yeah, the final boss was annoying and should have been done better, but it would have been unsatisfying to just say, "Well we've got pretty good evidence on you, we'll do the rest in court." *ROLL CREDITS*.


'Specially since that happened in most of the other cases in the game.
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Bad Player wrote:
I think we all agree that the showdown with Quercus was a bit excessive.


For the record, I don't think it was excessive at all. It was long and testing, stuff that great, satisfying boss fights are made off.
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My problem with case 5 wasn't with the length of the climax per se, it was how it was executed. And boy, was there a serious problem with the execution....

I've liked Larry throughout the Ace Attorney series. However, this case made me want to sidewind kick him out of the embassy. I've never liked Oldbag. I wanted to sidewind kick her too. Three times.

I didn't mind either of their appearance's at first. Larry I was actually happy to see, and he made me laugh pretty good at first. The quote he gave to the effect, "I even winked at you through my headpiece" made me LOL for a minute or so. However, as soon as Oldbag showed up, who was already in case 3, my nose started crinkling up due to all the bad smell of cheese floating around in this case. But, whatever. Just like C-3PO and R2-D2, Larry and Oldbag can have their place, I guess. It didn't bother me too much.

But then, I felt the writers did the unthinkable. Imagine if, in the final encounter between Luke and Vader, if 3PO and R2 showed up randomly in the middle, making a bunch of their insessant chatter and noises that they're known for? Everyone would be so pissed, they'd hate those characters for all eternity! Not only that, but suppose that, by chance, 3PO would make some loud yell for help which would distract Vader, allowing Luke to regain his balance and take Vader off his own? Furthermore, after that we would have something like where R2 would "bump" into the Emperor which would cause him to lose his balance and allow the opportunity for Vader/Luke to strike.

The above scenario is the logical equivalent to what happened at the end of case 5. My patience with Larry was gone after he stormed in with his "Hold it!" moment at the end of case 5. I was visibily frustrated that some stupid "coincidence" he was providing allowed an opening for Edgeworth. I mean, that's fine when it's earlier in the case, like it always has been in the past, but when we're at the climax, it has to be all Edgeworth. When Oldbag then showed up after that, my frustration on the characters turned to frustration with the case, and with the game as a whole. They took a great case and practically ruined it. I just beat it a couple hours ago, so I'm not sure if I feel the case has been ruinied or not. Certainly, if it weren't for their presence, I would've loved to have played through that case again. Now I'm not sure I ever will. Not only do these comic relief characters have no place in the climax of the game, they have absolutely no place saving you through dumb luck.

These games have done a wonderful job of strking a balance between nail-biting drama and hilarious situational comedy. However, the writers "jumped the shark" at the end here. I couldn't even marvel in Quercus' awesome stand as one of the best villains in the series because of how big a distraction Larry and Oldbag were. Some of the bad humor with Oldbag just makes me want to barf. Seriously, her existence as a character should be retconned. Not retconned from just the AA series, but from the universe. I would love to see my memory of her erased.

Honestly, Oldbag and Larry weren't the only problems with this case, but, the other problems were pretty minor in comparison. But because of Larry and Oldbag, I'd say this game would have to have had the most anti-clamatic ending in the series (the other part that doesn't help with this was the fact that it was totally obvious that the blood on the samurai dogs box was going to be Quercus', yet we had all the character's befuddled as to how the box could be relevant because it wasn't Manny's blood. That was the easiest final piece of evidence imaginable.)
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fatalfeline wrote:
I figured out that Lang was going to use Franziska as bait to let them investigate at the exact moment that he indicted her. I'm surprised nobody else in the game caught on. XD


Well, I assumed Edgeworth did. He seemed remarkably nonchalant over the whole thing.
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hannedog wrote:
But then, I felt the writers did the unthinkable. Imagine if, in the final encounter between Luke and Vader, if 3PO and R2 showed up randomly in the middle, making a bunch of their insessant chatter and noises that they're known for? Everyone would be so pissed, they'd hate those characters for all eternity! Not only that, but suppose that, by chance, 3PO would make some loud yell for help which would distract Vader, allowing Luke to regain his balance and take Vader off his own? Furthermore, after that we would have something like where R2 would "bump" into the Emperor which would cause him to lose his balance and allow the opportunity for Vader/Luke to strike.


Comparing a cult game to the most recognizable and iconic fictional encounter in popular culture? Very bad comparison right there.
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Quote:
Comparing a cult game to the most recognizable and iconic fictional encounter in popular culture? Very bad comparison right there.

First off, I was not making a comparison. It was a hypothetical example. I was trying to think of an scenario of how iconic popular fiction would have to be different so that it could be brought down to the level of case 5-5.

And I can assure you, the writers certainly would like this to be more than just a "cult" game. What creator wouldn't? It equals more sales. Of course they're trying to do their best.

In any case, the "social status" of my comparison is 100% irrelevant. The point is, never before in AA have the characters crossed the line of being too annoying during the critical moments at the end of cases, but this case crossed the line then pissed on the other side (and on the final case of all the ones to choose).
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hannedog wrote:
The point is, never before in AA have the characters crossed the line of being too annoying during the critical moments at the end of cases, but this case crossed the line then pissed on the other side (and on the final case of all the ones to choose).


Actually, implying that Larry and Oldbag were annoying during the finale is as subjective as implying that "Megadeth is better than Metallica" because I was never once irritated by their appearances nor did they test my patience or distract me from the final encounter.
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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Actually, implying that Larry and Oldbag were annoying during the finale is as subjective as implying that "Megadeth is better than Metallica" because I was never once irritated by their appearances nor did they test my patience or distract me from the final encounter.


Actually, you're wrong, because I'm not using my "taste" or my "threshold for annoyment" as a basis of measurement, but rather, all the other cases throughout the AA series. In NO final case in any AA game, does a "comic relief" character show up during the climax to save the character by simple dumb luck. This happens twice in the final case of AAI.

Again, I already explained this in my first post, but you're not one to have a reasonable discussion with.
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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
hannedog wrote:
The point is, never before in AA have the characters crossed the line of being too annoying during the critical moments at the end of cases, but this case crossed the line then pissed on the other side (and on the final case of all the ones to choose).


Actually, implying that Larry and Oldbag were annoying during the finale is as subjective as implying that "Megadeth is better than Metallica" because I was never once irritated by their appearances nor did they test my patience or distract me from the final encounter.


But... Megadeth is objectively better than Metallica! :rock'n:

And, uh... Larry didn't annoy me at all. Showing up at tense moments and breaking the tension is what he does. Remember 1-4 when he saved you from a Game Over after you "lost?" I loved Edgeworth's reaction to Larry calling Alba a "true Steel Samurai fan."

Oldbag did annoy me, but that's why she's sometimes funny in the first place.
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