Board index » Phoenix Wright » Prosecutor's Lobby

Page 7 of 7[ 248 posts ]
Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
 


Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

nuuuuu, stoooooop

Gender: Female

Location: America

Rank: Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 5255

Midnight Jasper wrote:
feel like Ema was made more to parody the fangirls than to provide wish-fulfillment fantasies for them. I mean, despite her fangirlism she doesn't really get to spend that much time with Edgeworth like Kay does, or save his life or "warm his ice-cold heart" or whatever. The fangirls don't want to be fangirls, they want to be Kay.


I think you might be assuming too much about how the creators view their fanbase. There are more girls into AA than a lot of other video games, but the fandom as a whole is still mostly guys, just like the creative team is mostly adult men. I really think the "teen girl sidekick" angle is more for the benefit of teen guys than it is pandering to fangirls, especially with a character like Kay who is so close to the established archetype.

When it comes to catering to AA's female base, I'd sooner point the finger at exclusive GS4 interviews that were published in yaoi magazines, or the Musical with it's all female cast and OFC love interest for Phoenix. If they were serious about pleasing their lady fans maybe they'd give us a teen BOY sidekick for a change. :garyuu:
ImageImage
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

Seeing it as it is

Gender: Female

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:36 am

Posts: 292

Croik wrote:
When it comes to catering to AA's female base, I'd sooner point the finger at exclusive GS4 interviews that were published in yaoi magazines, or the Musical with it's all female cast and OFC love interest for Phoenix. If they were serious about pleasing their lady fans maybe they'd give us a teen BOY sidekick for a change. :garyuu:


I'll never forget when Takumi stated plainly that there is no canon NaruMitsu. :gant:

Ok, I admit having a teen boy sidekick paired up with either Nick or Edgey's going to spark some interest with the fangirls. I mean, it's the perfect recipefor disaster: young, shota-looking teenage boy and an older, mature man. Think of the doujins it would spring. :beef:

Maybe teen girl sidekicks are just much more appealing for more variety and cuteness, if that is what the game people are aiming for.
Irving wrote:
Don't push my buttons, Buttons!
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

nuuuuu, stoooooop

Gender: Female

Location: America

Rank: Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 5255

Arti_Rei wrote:
I'll never forget when Takumi stated plainly that there is no canon NaruMitsu. :gant:


Actually you might be thinking of Matsukawa's quote, but either way, it's true, it'll never be canon.

Anyway, back on topic, I don't think of Kay as a vehicle for fangirls to insert themselves into the game, because the dev team doesn't really have any motivation to cater to us in that way. They do have a strong motivation to recreate a Phoenix/Maya type dynamic in order to make the game feel more familiar to fans. In fact, I think that's just what they said when fielding questions about why Apollo/Trucy mirrors them so closely as well.
ImageImage
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

あふれるその涙を

Gender: Female

Location: Australia

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:20 am

Posts: 303

Arti_Rei wrote:
Ok, I admit having a teen boy sidekick paired up with either Nick or Edgey's going to spark some interest with the fangirls. I mean, it's the perfect recipefor disaster: young, shota-looking teenage boy and an older, mature man. Think of the doujins it would spring. :beef:

Maybe teen girl sidekicks are just much more appealing for more variety and cuteness, if that is what the game people are aiming for.


Re: young male sidekick, I have 2 words: Professor Layton. XDDD (oh that games makes me sin in so many ways....) But I'd love to see it happen hahahaha
Spoiler:
Anyway, I can't believe this topic has progressed for almost 10 pages. It's rather disappointing to see fandom's constant knee jerk reactions to new characters. Happened with Ema, Apollo, etc. I just hope Kay's redeeming features will put her in most people's favour eventually. There is nothing abominal about her. The Japanese like their token loli flat chested hyper girly sidekicks, so let them be. Seriously, you should see the hentai this trope inspires.

My personal view is that Kay is actually quite different to her predecessors. She is more tomboy, spunky and independent. If anything she is a role model for young women, and I don't find her in any way aligned with a Mary Sue trope. If she had been introduced in the first game of the original series, no one would complain of her, but she gets discredited because of her relatively new status. She's not even a main character. Imagine if she were, and she manages to save the lives of every single guy in the series... oh god forbid a strong female character! And girls, don't be jealous. It's not real.... (really, I feel embarrassed reading some of the posts in this thread!).


Ergo, GET OVER IT. Just enjoy the games, enjoy the story and be less possessive about our favourite characters.... chill people, chill............
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn?
But that's alright because I like the way it hurts


RIP Tobi Wong
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

I know, Wright?

Gender: Female

Location: Helluva-fax, New Scottishland

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:50 pm

Posts: 806

hoshihoshi wrote:
If she had been introduced in the first game of the original series, no one would complain of her, but she gets discredited because of her relatively new status.

[...]

Ergo, GET OVER IT. Just enjoy the games, enjoy the story and be less possessive about our favourite characters.... chill people, chill............


I said it before and I'll say it again: just because someone has a differing opinion from you doesn't mean that they're being petty. This thread is nearly ten pages of (mostly) articulate, thoughtful discussion, and if you would shed your ignorant egotism for a minute you'd see that the people who have posted here have legitimate reasons for not liking Kay, and they're most certainly not "I'm too possessive of the old characters to tolerate new ones" or "I'm too shallow to see the good of a strong female character". You don't have some sort of insight that we're all missing, you just have a different opinion.

Both sides, debate it, agree to disagree, whatever, but don't think that your opinion is any more legitimate than anyone else's.

As for "New characters are intolerable to the fanbase", that has already been disproven. Rhoda is new to AAI, and she got to be Edgey's sidekick and have him stand up for her and so on and so forth, but reactions to her have been overwhelmingly positive. It's not "Onoes strong female character", either, because the series has tons of those. Kay is a whole other kettle of fish, and while she isn't "abominable" I'm still willing to argue that her character isn't up to par.

As for the Layton thing, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Image
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Female

Location: The Land of Layton

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:58 pm

Posts: 846

Seconded about Layton. Again.

And to add, there's a difference between being a strong character and saving the life of everyone in the series. Are you saying that if there was a girl who saved the life of every male character you wouldn't find them remotely Sue-ish or annoying?
And apparently, weak guys are cute whereas weak girls are totally unacceptable. So yeah.
Image
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

あふれるその涙を

Gender: Female

Location: Australia

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:20 am

Posts: 303

Marshmello wrote:
.. if you would shed your ignorant egotism for a minute ... You don't have some sort of insight that we're all missing, you just have a different opinion.

Both sides, debate it, agree to disagree, whatever, but don't think that your opinion is any more legitimate than anyone else's.

As for "New characters are intolerable to the fanbase", that has already been disproven. Rhoda is new to AAI, and she got to be Edgey's sidekick and have him stand up for her and so on and so forth, but reactions to her have been overwhelmingly positive. It's not "Onoes strong female character", either, because the series has tons of those. Kay is a whole other kettle of fish, and while she isn't "abominable" I'm still willing to argue that her character isn't up to par.


Thanks for that. I really needed a character attack there. Excuse this inarticulate ignorant egotistic fool who has no insight and is just running her mouth off like a ignorant bigoted retard. I'll just go kill myself since I dared to point out something about some fangirls, a fact that no one wants to admit to because frankly, I'd be embarrassed too. Don't you think you're over-reacting and being way too defensive about this? Also a tad hypocritical in the ego department there. Makes me wonder where all this hostility is coming from... cause I didn't even point fingers. I admit I'm rather taken aback.

*sigh* Anyway, just to humour you...I feel obliged to point out that Rhoda is different, 'whole other kettle of fish' as you put it. She's only a part of one case, not the vehicle of plot and connection of the overarching story. I don't think anyone has any issues with characters that are integral to a particular case, but when they are pivotal to the central plot and continuity, oh no beware...

Kay as a character may be underdeveloped compared to her predecessors, but that is mostly due to her new appearance. She hasn't had the opportunity to have her entire personality and backstory explored because she's only been a part of one game, one spinoff fanservicy game. And as demonstrated by history, fandom does have a tendency to dislike, at least initally, new characters who replace the roles of old ones, eg Ema replacing Maya and Apollo replacing Nick. I'm not saying that's the sole reason for discontent with Kay, but it is an important factor, subconscious to our collective minds or otherwise. However, Kay does not fit the Mary Sue trope to a tee, and any arguments alone these lines inevitably undermine themselves because so many other characters are similarly structured.

At the end of the day, I think we fans have no right to accuse the creators and writers of being inadequate and pandering to fangirl fantasies or whatever reactive dissatisfaction we can conquer up. We should be on our knees thanking the team behind every game. It's rather contradictory. It's almost like we think we can create better characters and write a better plot - that we know better. All this negativity drags other people down and ruins enjoyment of a wonderful series. I just wish people would look on the positive side and be less nit-picky about characters. They're characters, just that. Ingredients for a story for better or worse. Getting so worked up over it all seems a complete waste of time to me. But then that's me. I just don't care enough to want to argue about it. Maybe I really don't have a right to an opinion then.

Midnight Jasper wrote:
And to add, there's a difference between being a strong character and saving the life of everyone in the series. Are you saying that if there was a girl who saved the life of every male character you wouldn't find them remotely Sue-ish or annoying?
And apparently, weak guys are cute whereas weak girls are totally unacceptable. So yeah.


It was just an example, a hypothetical scenario for the sake of it. I'm just saying the fact that Kay is capable of saving, rather than being saved - as opposed to, say, Maya and Pearl, and therefore acting outside of a traditional prescribed female role typical of Eastern cultural standards - indeed Kay has many boyish characteristics both in design, personality and speech patterns - is in itself a Sue trait, as well as a feminist one. Perhaps this is a contradiction that was designed to work, but failed on some levels, or a new direction the creators are taking with their heroines, either way it's not for me to say. Kay is Kay. The end. Whether she has a cardboard cutout personality or not depends on whose point of view you take, and is subject to change if she returns in subsequent instalments. I think some of us are jumping the gun in handing down judgement on her, especially if we had high hopes for her and somehow reality didn't meet expectations. /shrug

I have nothing against so called 'weak girls' or 'weak boys' or 'weak anything'. This is not an issue about me and my opinions, it's rather an issue about clash of culture and something being lost in translation. We all bring a little bit of ourselves into stories and as a result sympathise with characters we feel reflect our values, and this is a foundation for much of the stubborn to and fro fandom is notorious for. I'm not looking to take sides or offer a conclusion about something, but that's the way I see it. I try to be objective and this is what I get...

I like every single character in the series equally and I don't judge them. Fanwank makes me sad.
Just gonna stand there and watch me burn?
But that's alright because I like the way it hurts


RIP Tobi Wong
Re: Kay Faraday: Canon Sue? *Spoiler Warning*Topic%20Title
User avatar

nuuuuu, stoooooop

Gender: Female

Location: America

Rank: Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 5255

Ok, I think there's one thing I can agree with: this thread has gone on for too long. You all need to back off from the ego-accusations, because that's not what fandom discussions are supposed to be about. It's not like the topic at hand even has a definite resolution so there's no reason to be offended by someone else's opinion.
ImageImage
Page 7 of 7 [ 248 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Prosecutor's Lobby

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO