Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler alert)

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:30 am

Ash

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Just because I want to write down my thoughts! I will hide story spoilers and such behind a tag, but to begin somewhat generally:

* The presentation is great, as expected from Level 5. Quite a lot of animated scenes and full orchestrated soundtrack.
* It probably differs for everyone, but I finished the game at 20 hours (Takumi mentioned that it took the game's producer about 30 hours)
* The use of the camera on the 3D models to simulate the sprite animations and cut-ins of Gyakuten Saiban is done really well.
* The former half feels more like a Gyakuten Saiban game in terms of plot structuring and story-telling, with the latter half more like Layton.
* The Gyakuten Saiban parts are definitely better than the Layton parts. The Witch Trial parts benefit from the new elements like the Mob Witnesses (and more), as well as the fantasy setting which brings a new kind of excitement to the trials
* These new elements aren't always used to their fullest though. They pop up rarely in surprising ways.
* The Layton parts... are just Layton. Actually, they are not as good, because there are fewer puzzles and worse, there are actually few puzzle patterns. Some puzzles return (slightly arranged) two or three times. The puzzles are also quite easy (few of the truly logical kind and most of them can be just solves by brute force).
* The Layton parts are also made easy because the map shows how many hint coints and hidden puzzles are present at each location.
* Narumiya Hiroki as Naruhodo is horrible! Seriously, there are some great scenes that get killed because of Narumiya... Kiritani kinda works as Mayoi. But that is only relative to Narumiya.
* The final Witch Trial is way too long. It does feature an interesting element at the beginning of it, but it wears down very quickly. The former trials are definitely more fun.

Spoiler: Story spoilers

I wasn't too fond of the another fake city concept. It might be the only way to make it work for the GS world, but I'd rather it having been really a different kind of world. And heck, even if it was for the sake of researching the plants and for Mahoney (and Jordolla)'s sake, creating a false city with working witchcraft is really farfetched. Then again, it's a Layton staple...

The last Witch Trial was horrible. It started out fun with the mass mob cross examination, though that quickly became boring. There were no real memorable testimonies afterwards, and half of the time it was more exposition than cross-examining. It felt more like a denouement scene (especially when the Storyteller appeared), even though the fun of GS trials is that you figure the truth out by cross-examining slowly, rather than having someone telling you everything, with 'cross-examination' functioning as little more than mere 'commenting'.

I liked the idea of presenting testimonies to other testimonies. Yes, they already did that since the original GS in the form of written testimonies, but I would definitely love to see the idea of having to find the right testimony among a series of utterances again in later GS games. Too bad it appeared only a couple of times. The same with breakdowns, I loved the first two breakdowns, only to find out that there were no real breakdowns afterwards...

And cross-examining a bird?! :D

Ojisan is a much more amusing character than Obasan/Oldbag! The way he appeared the second time was simply awesome. Jiiken got kinda thrown away at the end of the game and his appearences at the bakery / controlling a boat and such just felt weird. It wasn't like you had anything to do with solving the mystery of Labyrinth City.

By the way, there was no reason at all to take Naruhodo and Mayoi all the way to Labyrinth City, seeing as Mahoney had been released already. The attack on Giovanni and the subsequent kidnapping of Mahoney outside Labyrinth City was also kinda skimmed over during the explanations...

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:49 am

Sir Duke

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I missed the end scene. Who was the cameo character?

The king of all, Sir Duke

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:18 am

Ash

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Spoiler: Epilogue / Credits spoilers

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:53 am

Sir Duke

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After finishing the game, were there any reasons why this game hasn't been announced for a world wide release evident in the game?

The king of all, Sir Duke

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:57 am

Ash

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Nothing contents/story-wise, at any rate.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:40 am

Sir Duke

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Spoiler:

The king of all, Sir Duke

Last edited by Sir Duke on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:47 am

Ash

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Would you mind covering your question up with a spoiler-tag? Just to be on the safe side for people who accidently wander into this topic?

Spoiler: End game spoilers!!

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:05 am

Sir Duke

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Are there times in the game where Layton and Phoenix fight or argue?

The king of all, Sir Duke

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 am

Haligan

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Ash wrote:

Spoiler: Epilogue / Credits spoilers

I just died a little.

Spoiler: speaking of other characters

"A romanticist who could never shed that veneer of amateurism."

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:23 pm

Sir Duke

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What was the best part of the game?

The king of all, Sir Duke

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:39 am

Bolt Storm

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Haligan wrote:

Ash wrote:

Spoiler: Epilogue / Credits spoilers

I just died a little.

Spoiler: speaking of other characters

You may have gotten that from my playthrough blog. It's not necessarily the end so much as one part in the middle:

Spoiler:

Deadpool 9 wrote:

What was the best part of the game?

For Layton, the final few investigations before the last witch trial starts, for Phoenix... hard to say. The final trial was so long that it had some pretty good stuff and some pretty dull stuff. Case 3 was very interesting for premise alone, though.

So, yeah, just finished myself. I agree the final trial is way too long. It felt like I was trapped in AAI-5 again. It was still good, but it could've used some cutting down to be certain.

Spoiler: Endgame spoilers

Overall, though, I still loved it. The presentation in particular is so far above the other AA games (and the PL ones for the most part, for that matter) that it's not even funny. AA5 will have to do a lot to match the sheer level of polish this had (though I did run into exactly one bug, and that is that at the very end one of my profiles just disappeared. I could still present it and select it, but it was just blank in description and picture.)

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Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:17 am

Ash

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Actually, someone from my circle told me that the ending is slightly different on the second playthrough, but I can't muster up the energy to go through that last trial again =_=

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:24 am

Bolt Storm

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Ash wrote:

Actually, someone from my circle told me that the ending is slightly different on the second playthrough, but I can't muster up the energy to go through that last trial again =_=

...Seriously. Maybe it'll let you see it if you just use the "start from climax" option in the clear data?

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:27 am

Ash

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I already started (and saved) from the Layton part, because I missed two puzzles... =_= Checked just now, I have to start from where I last saved (can't choose starting point anymore).

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:34 am

Bolt Storm

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Ash wrote:

I already started (and saved) from the Layton part, because I missed two puzzles... =_= Checked just now, I have to start from where I last saved (can't choose starting point anymore).

Seriously? That bites.

Also, was it just my mis-reading/imagination, or did the clear message say something about being able to replay trials to get picarats?

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:12 am

Ash

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I kinda clicked through those messages, seeing I hadn't slept that whole night playing the game ^^' Though I am really bummed you can't choose court cases to start in; it makes sense story wise, but the trial parts are the only parts I would want to replay...

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:42 pm

professor layton

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I have a theory that Madalla is Dahlias/美柳ちなみ (Chinami Miyanagi) British cousin. is my theory correct?

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:02 pm

Bolt Storm

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professor layton wrote:

I have a theory that Madalla is Dahlias/美柳ちなみ (Chinami Miyanagi) British cousin. is my theory correct?

If you mean she's not exactly as nice as she seems and has a penchant for murder, then yes. Though in the end she's not nearly as self-centered as Dahlia is.

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:36 am

Bolt Storm

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Ash wrote:

Actually, someone from my circle told me that the ending is slightly different on the second playthrough, but I can't muster up the energy to go through that last trial again =_=

I finally finished replaying the last trial for write-up purposes, and yeah, the ending's a little different.

Spoiler: Ending

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:32 am

Ash

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それだったら別に今すぐ見んでもいいや。

I know the game's story-structure doesn't lend it well for a case-by-case division as in the GS games, but heck, I would've loved the option to choose to start from any trial...

And this was already held last year, but after a short discussion at my circle about the game, we came to the conclusion that they should offer a voice DLC pack for Phoenix :P

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: Layton vs GS post-game discussion! (obvious spoiler aler

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 pm

Chauzu

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Just finished my playthrough of this game, and I must say that I'm overwhelmed. I never doubted that this game would be good - but this good? Can't believe they managed to make the blend so succesfully, and I'm sure both GS and Layton fans will be happy with the game.

I don't like discussions such as "best game ever" etc, but I can say that I doubt I've ever played a game where I've felt 100% excited and satisfied during the whole game. That they managed to go through subjects that we've never really experienced in GS - like sorrow - was really refreshing. And the duration of the game - it felt like it would never end! (And I was very happy with that.) My play time stopped at close to 30 hours, could that really be true?

And Naruhodo and Layton really made a great team... They could really do more games and make a series out of this. Although I somehow would like this game to be left alone, in a special place in gaming history... At least for me.

Hope at least some of you will enjoy this game as much as I did, because then you're in for the ride of your lives.