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Re: PLvAA General Discussion Thread (spoilers!)Topic%20Title
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Klonoahedgehog wrote:
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This image has a lot of power to it in my opinion.

Seeing as How Layton was inspired by Phoenix, this must make the people at Level 5 really happy.

Man, the final trial for this game had me stuck to the screen the entire time.
The end when they pretty much said that Phoenix's appearance in Labyrinthia was a fluke and that they only intended for Layton to show up, that had me laughing for a while. :gant:

I have to admit, all I could think when I saw that picture was "Kiss him, you fool".
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Whhaaaaaaaat? The developers cut a fencing match between Wright and Layton? I demand a new game that has this!

Also, I know Maya is joking, but did anyone else think this joke was kind of fucked up on her part?
Spoiler: Big Spoilers
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Isn't that from the special episodes? They are not to be taken very seriously...
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I suppose this says more about me than the game, but...

Spoiler: Ending Spoilers
I seriously thought that the game was going to feature actual magic and ultimately retcon itself like so many crossovers. It took a while for the whole "magic isn't real" thing to sink in, since I figured that if they WERE gonna go that route, well... Layton doesn't exactly have a great history of justifying its "no magic" laws in ways that make logical sense.

I'm not sure whether this was a bad thing, after all is said and done. In hindsight I guess I am glad the game doesn't retcon itself out of existence-- I very much expected it to, but the fact that it didn't is rather nice.

While I don't care too much about the whole explanations of the magic and that being highly illogical and underwhelming, I DO take umbrage with HOW it was done... Which is basically "The Storyteller gets up and explains everything for about an hour". That part was very poorly paced-- I practically laughed out loud when he went "I'm dying of a rare disease" and then approximately three lines later says "Oh but I have the cure". If these sorts of explanations had been spread out a bit more or presented in a way other than "Storyteller Explains It All", then I probably would have found it a lot easier to swallow.

also the vigilantes were terrible. except wordsmith because he's a living balloon, but every other one of them was absolutely awful.


other than that, I don't think I can say anything more that everyone else hasn't already said. Looking around I think most of the things I wanted to say have been said.
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dimentiorules wrote:
I read on the Ace Attorney Wiki that the character of Professor Layton was originally inspired by Phoenix Wright. It says that the creators took the good aspects of Phoenix Wright's character and applied those to Layton. I find that strange, as they're nothing alike, neither in terms of personality nor looks! Exactly what aspects of Phoenix Wright made it into Professor Layton?

It's an insult to me, if anything. "Phoenix Wright, but better" It's like saying entirety of Phoenix's character and identity is a "bad aspect" of his character.

Well, not.
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Nearavex wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
I read on the Ace Attorney Wiki that the character of Professor Layton was originally inspired by Phoenix Wright. It says that the creators took the good aspects of Phoenix Wright's character and applied those to Layton. I find that strange, as they're nothing alike, neither in terms of personality nor looks! Exactly what aspects of Phoenix Wright made it into Professor Layton?

It's an insult to me, if anything. "Phoenix Wright, but better" It's like saying entirety of Phoenix's character and identity is a "bad aspect" of his character.

Well, not.


Well basically the entire game was Layton showing up Phoenix and making him look substantially more foolish than himself.
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Pierre wrote:
Nearavex wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
I read on the Ace Attorney Wiki that the character of Professor Layton was originally inspired by Phoenix Wright. It says that the creators took the good aspects of Phoenix Wright's character and applied those to Layton. I find that strange, as they're nothing alike, neither in terms of personality nor looks! Exactly what aspects of Phoenix Wright made it into Professor Layton?

It's an insult to me, if anything. "Phoenix Wright, but better" It's like saying entirety of Phoenix's character and identity is a "bad aspect" of his character.

Well, not.


Well basically the entire game was Layton showing up Phoenix and making him look substantially more foolish than himself.

It was destined to happen. Hino of Level-5 has admitted that he views Takumi as an archrival. Takumi, meanwhile, has made no comment about it.

Phooey, it's been almost 2 years now and I still haven't found fanart of Layton in some way or another trampling on Phoenix. This is the stuff you'd think would have shown up by now.
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I think the main thing about Layton being Wright without the flaws is that I can see Wright being more like Layton after he's had many years of experience under his belt. As a matter of fact, I'd say HoboNick is basically Layton without the obsession with being a gentleman.
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But who is Layton really, underneath that polished exterior and sweet smile? ~
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GoingforMiles wrote:
But who is Layton really, underneath that polished exterior and sweet smile? ~


Professor Layton and the Unwound Future (Lost Future)
Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy

That's who he is.

It may surprise people to know he's gone through a lot himself, and the events of his unusual past shape him into the person he is today. I understand if some aren't a fan of that person, but I honestly don't know what to say when people perceive Layton's presence in PLvsAA as somehow being a threat to everything Phoenix is. I never saw it that way, and I don't care what Hino or whoever has to say about "improving upon Phoenix's bad points." IMO, he's either talking out of his ass, is deliberately being vague for the lulz, or played through almost ½ of one Gyakuten Saiban game, decided that was all Phoenix was and was ever going to be, and used that as a starting point. It's just stupid to say Layton is 'that character,' just better. It's a completely different character! Anyone who says such a thing probably never understood Phoenix's character to begin with.

And what is considered a "flaw" or a "bad point" anyway? Is it laziness? Is it lack of book smarts? Is it crazy devotion to the ones you love, or keeping a cool head at all times? Depending on what it is, there are people who would either see it as a positive, or see it as setting the stage for a more positive outcome.

Layton himself is not without flaws. Maybe PLvsAA doesn't do a good job of getting that across, but it's not like Layton woke up one day and said, "Screw this, I'm gonna be an archaeology professor and go on adventures and drink tea like a gentleman! Kiss my puzzle!" He went through some shit. His experiences with certain people and the loss of those people are what drove him to go into archaeology, become a professor and be a gentleman. Maybe in that way, Layton shares some qualities with Phoenix (in the sense of "what inspired his career path"...it was good friends), but it doesn't make him the same character or some "better" version of him.

Oddly, if there were a character that resembles Phoenix with polished up points, I would say

Spoiler: Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask. Yes, huge spoilers
Henry Ledore fits the bill more than anyone. His dedication to hard work and undying loyalty to his best friend created an entire city and saved a young woman from being trapped in a loveless marriage. But Layton? No. Layton simply mourned Randall. Henry did everything he could to search for his best friend, because without confirmation of a death (or intended death), he carried on believing the young man was still alive.

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Neat, I haven't played those. I'm a little scared when it comes to going into the past of characters, haha...
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Not sure if this has already been answered before.

Does anybody know if there was an alternate game over sequence if the penalty bar gets depleted after...

Spoiler:
...they prove that magic and witches aren't real, thereby making the witch trials pointless?

I feel like the judge would be a huge jerk if he actually sent anybody to the fire after that.



Last edited by Ropfa on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ropfa wrote:
Not sure if this has already been answered before.

Does anybody know if there was an alternate game over sequence is the penalty bar gets depleted after...

Spoiler:
...they prove that magic and witches aren't real, thereby making the witch trials pointless?

I feel like the judge would be a huge jerk if he actually sent anybody to the fire after that.


Spoiler: Your Answer
Nope, sadly nothing changes, I experimented a bit because that did seem off to me. Especially since the storyteller himself had come out and said "Hold on, don't kill my daughter you idiots". I also did it on Layton presenting (because it makes no sense for a penalty for the prosecution to result in a guilty verdict.


Bit of a shame really, I know Dual Destinies altered it's Game Over sequence several times towards the ending depending on how events changed.
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What exactly happens once we use all our penalties? Is there a recording of the exact scene?
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Nearavex wrote:
What exactly happens once we use all our penalties? Is there a recording of the exact scene?


The usual...lalalala...guilty...lalala....into the fires of judgement with you, then the camera zooms back. In a normal courtroom this would end with the court doors closing on the screen and "Guilty" being shown but it's a bit more sinister. Instead you see the 'iron maiden' coffin thing shutting as if you are inside it. So you see the 'screaming' face embellished on the inside of the coffin.
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Here's the scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLNt ... bdec#t=27m

It's pretty disappointing. I would've liked multiple bad ends. The same thing happens in 3-5. If you can't disprove Iris' claim that Maya is the murderer, Iris gets the guilty verdict. Also, at the end its concluded that the killer is either Maya or Godot. Failing gives Iris the guilty verdict
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Here's the scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLNt ... bdec#t=27m

It's pretty disappointing. I would've liked multiple bad ends. The same thing happens in 3-5. If you can't disprove Iris' claim that Maya is the murderer, Iris gets the guilty verdict. Also, at the end its concluded that the killer is either Maya or Godot. Failing gives Iris the guilty verdict


D'aww man you captured my favourite bit of the game :acro:

Phoenix finally getting to one-up someone in court.
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Pierre wrote:
Spoiler: Your Answer
Nope, sadly nothing changes, I experimented a bit because that did seem off to me. Especially since the storyteller himself had come out and said "Hold on, don't kill my daughter you idiots". I also did it on Layton presenting (because it makes no sense for a penalty for the prosecution to result in a guilty verdict.


Bit of a shame really, I know Dual Destinies altered it's Game Over sequence several times towards the ending depending on how events changed.


Well that's silly.

Also, was there any mention of how the heck...

Spoiler:
...the shades managed to fake a gigantic frigging fire dragon showing up in the sky and eating the Storyteller in front of the entire town?

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Ropfa wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Spoiler: Your Answer
Nope, sadly nothing changes, I experimented a bit because that did seem off to me. Especially since the storyteller himself had come out and said "Hold on, don't kill my daughter you idiots". I also did it on Layton presenting (because it makes no sense for a penalty for the prosecution to result in a guilty verdict.


Bit of a shame really, I know Dual Destinies altered it's Game Over sequence several times towards the ending depending on how events changed.


Well that's silly.

Also, was there any mention of how the heck...

Spoiler:
...the shades managed to fake a gigantic frigging fire dragon showing up in the sky and eating the Storyteller in front of the entire town?



That's actually not all that bad really.

Spoiler: To answer your problem
I mean if we are actually set in modern day times then essentially all the fancy Hollywood effects are around. Its certainly possible they could make a wireframe fire dragon with a cage compartment for carrying the storyteller away suspended on the invisible cranes. Bear in mind unlike other spells which are done arguably on a whim this was in planning for a while by the storyteller. With a little hypnotic suggestion its certainly possible I think.

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Pierre wrote:
Spoiler: To answer your problem
I mean if we are actually set in modern day times then essentially all the fancy Hollywood effects are around. Its certainly possible they could make a wireframe fire dragon with a cage compartment for carrying the storyteller away suspended on the invisible cranes. Bear in mind unlike other spells which are done arguably on a whim this was in planning for a while by the storyteller. With a little hypnotic suggestion its certainly possible I think.

Spoiler: Yeah, but...
I thought this was the answer, too, but the dragon looked EXACTLY like the one Espella saw ten years ago. It could be a coincidence, I guess, and in the end I still have more of a problem with Godoor and Goldor so I don't mind as much
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Okay, just one more thing. I don't think any of the main characters were nearly as scared of this as they should have been.

Spoiler:
The Storyteller literally got up in front of a crowd of people and exposed a conspiracy he had been part of, admitting that the British government was literally funding projects for mind controlling large groups of people.

Both Layton and Phoenix sort of brush it off and go "Oh, really? Wow, that's really weird. I can't believe it!"

And then nobody mentions it again.

Layton's a UK citizen, for crying out loud. He should be deeply concerned about this. The implications are not exactly tiny.

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Ropfa wrote:
Okay, just one more thing. I don't think any of the main characters were nearly as scared of this as they should have been.

Spoiler:
The Storyteller literally got up in front of a crowd of people and exposed a conspiracy he had been part of, admitting that the British government was literally funding projects for mind controlling large groups of people.

Both Layton and Phoenix sort of brush it off and go "Oh, really? Wow, that's really weird. I can't believe it!"

And then nobody mentions it again.

Layton's a UK citizen, for crying out loud. He should be deeply concerned about this. The implications are not exactly tiny.


Spoiler:
Well, it probably didn't bother them as much since all participants consented to the experiment beforehand (excluding Layton, Phoenix, etc), but yeah, it's a little strange they didn't express some curiosity over it.

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Sierra Mikain wrote:
Ropfa wrote:
Okay, just one more thing. I don't think any of the main characters were nearly as scared of this as they should have been.

Spoiler:
The Storyteller literally got up in front of a crowd of people and exposed a conspiracy he had been part of, admitting that the British government was literally funding projects for mind controlling large groups of people.

Both Layton and Phoenix sort of brush it off and go "Oh, really? Wow, that's really weird. I can't believe it!"

And then nobody mentions it again.

Layton's a UK citizen, for crying out loud. He should be deeply concerned about this. The implications are not exactly tiny.


Spoiler:
Well, it probably didn't bother them as much since all participants consented to the experiment beforehand (excluding Layton, Phoenix, etc), but yeah, it's a little strange they didn't express some curiosity over it.


Spoiler:
Why are the government interested in that sort of experiment though...? That should raise some fear.

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GoingforMiles wrote:
Spoiler:
Why are the government interested in that sort of experiment though...? That should raise some fear.


Spoiler:
No kidding... That's some 1984-level shit right there.

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It wouldn't be a Layton game if it didn't have unintentionally terrifying implications

Spoiler:
Seriously, though, I didn't feel bad for Jean Greyerl all that much during the Fire Witch but with the final game plot twist to account for...that's some horrifying shit. Even moreso if you realize she tried to kill herself while some shades just stood there and watched
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JesusMonroe wrote:
It wouldn't be a Layton game if it didn't have unintentionally terrifying implications


Oh, would you care to elaborate on that? Are there any in the first two games?
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Lucky for you, the first two games are the only ones I've played. Unlucky for you, I don't remember much. I'll do my best anyway

Spoiler: PL
-The guy who died in Curious Village is willing to leave his fortune and daughter with any strangers who are capable of solving puzzles...or happen to touch the shoulder of his daughter's painting

-Unable to give Flora any love, the inventor builds robots to do it for him

-The inventor locked Flora in a tower until those who were worthy found her. What if nobody could solve the puzzles? She would starve to death! Nevermind, actually. Don Paolo would knock it down and kill her

-Don Paolo knocks Flora out and leaves her in a barn. When Layton and Luke find out Don Paolo is Flora, they still decide to pursue the box, the idea that Flora could be dead or in danger never crossing their mind

-The world that Layton and Luke hallucinate is one that's filled with people who ask puzzles (nevermind. This one's just cute)

-LAYTON DOESN'T HAVE EYES


Hmm...not as many as I remember. I do remember being particulalry unsettled by Curious Village first time around, though, and Diabolical Box made no sense but nothing was creepy about it

PLvAA takes the cake, though. I don't think I need to elaborate on that
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Oh, yeah you're right. That is pretty... off. :gregory: (And I agree that the second to last one is really cute as well)
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Spoiler:
Why are the government interested in that sort of experiment though...? That should raise some fear.


Spoiler:
PLvsAA 2: In which all of London becomes a fairy-tale world because a the Prime Minister couldn't afford therapy.
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Shadowsleuth wrote:
GoingforMiles wrote:
Spoiler:
Why are the government interested in that sort of experiment though...? That should raise some fear.


Spoiler:
PLvsAA 2: In which all of London becomes a fairy-tale world because a the Prime Minister couldn't afford therapy.


:redd:
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Don't forget the part in the third game, where...

Spoiler:
A giant robot the size of a few city blocks tears a hole in the middle of central London up through the ground, destroying several buildings full of unsuspecting people and probably destroying a good chunk of the metro system in the process, causing any trains in the Tube to crash. It then proceeds to go on a rampage, destroying even more buildings.

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GoingforMiles wrote:
Sierra Mikain wrote:

Spoiler:
Well, it probably didn't bother them as much since all participants consented to the experiment beforehand (excluding Layton, Phoenix, etc), but yeah, it's a little strange they didn't express some curiosity over it.


Spoiler:
Why are the government interested in that sort of experiment though...? That should raise some fear.


Spoiler:
I always under the impression the Storyteller came up with the side project while working for the company, or came up with it and then landed the job. But I've only played through once, so my memory's hazy there.

I do wonder just how much involvement was the actual government's. Was it clear that the government understood that the Storyteller was rounding up all these volunteers to live in the fake village with tainted water, or were they just kind of throwing money at him and letting him do his own thing?

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Sierra Mikain wrote:
Spoiler:
I do wonder just how much involvement was the actual government's. Was it clear that the government understood that the Storyteller was rounding up all these volunteers to live in the fake village with tainted water, or were they just kind of throwing money at him and letting him do his own thing?


Spoiler:
The Storyteller says that the project is being "co-funded by the British government" and that they've actively been helping to make sure that it stays secret. When Phoenix asks why they're doing it, the Storyteller just says that it's "all because of his beliefs"... Whatever that means.

Nick later has an inner monologue about how the government was supporting the whole hypnosis thing.

http://youtu.be/Unn7W2JR52c?t=8m56s

I checked the rest of that testimony and those are the only times the government is mentioned. They only barely touch on that aspect of the project. I don't remember it being discussed after that, but I may be wrong. I don't really feel like rewatching the entire epilogue at this time to check.

In any case, I doubt the government would give a whole bunch of money and security to the guy just so he could let his daughter live in a fantasy world. They're not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts.

Re: PLvAA General Discussion Thread (spoilers!)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler:
I honestly didn't realize how dark this is until you guys brought it up. It really makes you wonder who the hypnosis is intended for.

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Re: PLvAA General Discussion Thread (spoilers!)Topic%20Title
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Ropfa wrote:
Sierra Mikain wrote:
Spoiler:
I do wonder just how much involvement was the actual government's. Was it clear that the government understood that the Storyteller was rounding up all these volunteers to live in the fake village with tainted water, or were they just kind of throwing money at him and letting him do his own thing?


Spoiler:
The Storyteller says that the project is being "co-funded by the British government" and that they've actively been helping to make sure that it stays secret. When Phoenix asks why they're doing it, the Storyteller just says that it's "all because of his beliefs"... Whatever that means.

Nick later has an inner monologue about how the government was supporting the whole hypnosis thing.

http://youtu.be/Unn7W2JR52c?t=8m56s

I checked the rest of that testimony and those are the only times the government is mentioned. They only barely touch on that aspect of the project. I don't remember it being discussed after that, but I may be wrong. I don't really feel like rewatching the entire epilogue at this time to check.

In any case, I doubt the government would give a whole bunch of money and security to the guy just so he could let his daughter live in a fantasy world. They're not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts.


Spoiler:
No, I don't think the government would fund him based on that reason alone, but if he lied or misled them about the project, I could see that happening too.

But yeah, it's pretty sketchy from all angles.

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Re: PLvAA General Discussion Thread (spoilers!)Topic%20Title
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Y'know

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Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure the whole long-term hypnosis is an actual Labrelum project funded by the government. Arthur's own idea behind the project itself was allowing Espella to live in a world like this, but it doesn't really change the fact that being supported by the government, he does have to report the results.

Wouldn't call it lies and deceit, just several goals at a single time, you know? While his daughter's mental health is more important to him, he still does his work, to earn government's support.

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Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

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Spoiler: ""
Hey, isn't Bill Hawks still Prime Minister during this game?

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That's an interesting question indeed, but I can't be sure, due to the fact that he appears in a prequel trilogy, right?

How many years passed between Unwound Future and Diabolical Box?

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Nearavex wrote:
Spoiler:
That's an interesting question indeed, but I can't be sure, due to the fact that he appears in a prequel trilogy, right?

How many years passed between Unwound Future and Diabolical Box?


Spoiler:
I assume months, in the other order, but I've never gotten confirmation. All I know is the first prequel game takes place three years before Curious Village.

"Descole? You don't mean Mr. I-Like-to-Wreck-Things-with-Mechanical-Monsters-and-Dress-Up-as-Posh-Ladies Descole?" -Emmy Altava

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