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Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?
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Author:  linkenski [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I love the artwork done by Kasuya Nuri (the one who did GS4) in this game, and while I love the Phoenix artwork, I hate how it comes to life as an in-game model, and I think many will agree.

But seriously, this game has a ton of amazing animations but out of all these Phoenix probably has the worst animations, especially his desk-slam and Objection pointing is just horrendous. Why did they screw this up so bad? Does it get less noticable when you adjust to the game? :grey:

Author:  Pierre [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I have a problem with the lack of emotion in Phoenix's face but the rest of his model seemed ok to me. I'd put it down to teething problems with converting the sprites into 3D models.

Author:  linkenski [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

The way he points his finger also has a lack of "oomph" it looks very amaturish in animation. But yeah, like you said the rest might be because they had trouble converting from the sprite animations.

It still makes me wonder since mostly all other animations in the game seem perfect especially for the new characters.

Author:  D.A. McCoy [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I think it was simply that it was the first time that the characters were being represented in polygon form. They made a couple mistakes, which the GS5 team looked at and kept in mind when making the models for DD, which is why they (to me at least) look far better and are as close to sprites as you could get.

It's a bit how the original sprites for the first Phoenix Wright weren't flawless, and they kept improving on them until GS4 and GK when they looked pretty perfect.

Author:  linkenski [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Disagree. GK might have great level of detail in animation, but the character art rocks in the older games, and in AJ. GK's art has a lot of mismatching colors that clash, and characters just look plain freaky.

And why is Phoenix so bad and stiff when Maya or Layton or even Luke have rather smooth and close-to-original animations? I'm obviously not getting a definitive answer, but you're right that it was because it's the first time they did something like this. It just makes you wonder why the second-biggest star in the game got the most half-assed animations.

Author:  D.A. McCoy [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

linkenski wrote:
Disagree. GK might have great level of detail in animation, but the character art rocks in the older games, and in AJ. GK's art has a lot of mismatching colors that clash, and characters just look plain freaky.

And why is Phoenix so bad and stiff when Maya or Layton or even Luke have rather smooth and close-to-original animations? I'm obviously not getting a definitive answer, but you're right that it was because it's the first time they did something like this. It just makes you wonder why the second-biggest star in the game got the most half-assed animations.


I personally consider the art of AJ to be the most flawless, but I still personally consider the art in GK better than for GS1. But that's just me.

From the gameplay that I've seen, I don't neccesarily think that the movement is that different between the characters; Layton, in my opinion, has the same level of movement quality as Phoenix does. But I think we have a problem with it for a couple of reasons:
1. Layton's art is less detailed and more whimsical, which lends itself to the "3D movement" scene better since it naturally is going to be more exaggerated. I think the animators are used to working with more cartoony characters.
2. We've already seen 3D Layton in "Miracle Mask" so we've adjusted to seeing him. I know when I first started Miracle Mask, the new 3D movement bothered the hell out of me, though.
3. We've seen Phoenix's same 8 or 9 movements so much over the course of 4 games that it's very easy for us to notice little problems and differences with it. Maya, for instance, still looks weird to me, but while she is an important character she isn't constantly seen in the same position for the majority of the gameplay like Phoenix in court is. I'm guessing that the only reason why we don't feel this way about GS5 is that they did a redesign for Phoenix. I bet if you turn on the "classic" Phoenix costume GS5 will look a little strange as well.
4. As previously talked about, I think they just made some mistakes that GS5 didn't (for instance, PLvsAA has the charactes "breathe" and do that "animation movement" when the character is still, while GS5 copies the sprite characteristics. However, all other Layton games do the "animation", so it probably would have looked weird to see these frozen GS characters right next to these moving Layton ones).

Author:  linkenski [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I thought Maya's animations look perfect in PLvsAA though. Look at when Phoenix slams the desk for example, or points during objections though, and compare it to when Layton does it. Layton clearly slams hard and there's a lot of oomph to his pointing as well, where as Phoenix looks stiff in both and the camera angles doesn't match his face. You do have a point about layton being more cartoony and all, but Phoenix is also somewhat "cartoony" and his animations are also exaggerated a lot, so it's just weird it turns out the way it did in this game.

Author:  Going for Miles [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Indeed, Phoenix' pointing really bugged me, with the poker face. Amongst other stiff poses and faces. Although seeing him wield an iron pipe still with the poker face on was kind of hilarious. (By the way, did I see wrong or did Phoenix have brown eyes in this game?)

Author:  Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

GoingforMiles wrote:
Indeed, Phoenix' pointing really bugged me, with the poker face. Amongst other stiff poses and faces. Although seeing him wield an iron pipe still with the poker face on was kind of hilarious. (By the way, did I see wrong or did Phoenix have brown eyes in this game?)

It's blacked out, so I don't think there was a particular eye color. If you ask me, his eyes make up a good reason why he's called "Phoenix". His eyes seem to change color a lot among official and fan art alike.

Author:  Going for Miles [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Hm. Now, if I recall correctly they were in a cutscene though. Personally I'll never accept them to be anything else than blue.

Author:  TheBlackquillz [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I always like to think of this game as a test run for later 3D models.
In both Phoenix Wright Dual Destinies and Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy, the 3D models are visibly better than in Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright. So maybe, they tried the 3D out with PLvsPW, and improved the models in their later games?
Just a theory, but a good one at that. :shoe:

Author:  AireyVerkhovensky [ Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I actually thought some of Phoenix's animations were pretty cutes - like the ones where he has one hand on his hip. (And especially the way he shifts hands. It looks pretty sassy, I like it.)
I also liked his damage animation better here than I did in DD, but that's not saying much because I've never really liked it all that much.

Author:  linkenski [ Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I was a bit pre-judgmental when I started this topic before the game was even out and I hadn't watched it aside from an hour-long segment. I agree, his variation and new sprites made up for it, but he does still look a little bit still and his eyes plastered on his 3D face doesn't really give it the right feel like in DD.

Author:  JesusMonroe [ Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Yeah, his model bothered me quite a bit. It was like he was a lifeless shell being controlled by a puppet. That's fucking creepy. Layton's was fine, but I think the fact that he has black dots for eyes made me more uncomfortable in a 3D world

Author:  Pierre [ Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah, his model bothered me quite a bit. It was like he was a lifeless shell being controlled by a puppet. That's fucking creepy. Layton's was fine, but I think the fact that he has black dots for eyes made me more uncomfortable in a 3D world


It's his objection really, he didn't look like he was putting any emotion into it. Just dead-eyed.

Author:  dimentiorules [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I can't believe I'm the first one to say this, but am I the only one to notice that Phoenix's skin seems a little bit too dark in this game? All the other character's skin tones match their previous designs, but Phoenix's just looks a little too tan for me. I know it's a nitpick, but still.

Author:  Klonoahedgehog [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I personally like this model more than the one in DD.

Author:  linkenski [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Klonoahedgehog wrote:
I personally like this model more than the one in DD.

I would be inclined to agree, but I'm torn because it's really just his artstyle in PLvPWAA that I much prefer (I know he's older in DD though) but he just looked empty inside a lot of the time and his "ugh!" animation made it look like he was looking at something above him instead of being flustered.

Author:  Turnabout_Lawman [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Only animation I found awkward coming back to his 2012 model was the one with his hand on his hip.
Spoiler: Post credits
I actually liked Edgeworth's model better than DD though.


I'd love Shu Takumi's writing combined with DD's art and animation team but I know that's a pipe dream, lol.

Author:  dimentiorules [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Personally, I find Phoenix's design in DD to be the best design he's ever had. Yes, even better than the original Trilogy. I think he looks slicker, cooler, more mature, smarter, and more professional than ever before!

Author:  Turnabout_Lawman [ Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Crap I'm embarassed at how vague I was last post (hand on hip) and it keeps nagging me in the head, lol, I meant his confident pose, which they did indeed change to just using one hand on hip:
Image

I thought his chin very awkward tucked into his chest in PLvsAA, but indeed that was my only model nitpick.

Author:  Scent [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Turnabout_Lawman wrote:
Only animation I found awkward coming back to his 2012 model was the one with his hand on his hip.
Spoiler: Post credits
I actually liked Edgeworth's model better than DD though.


I'd love Shu Takumi's writing combined with DD's art and animation team but I know that's a pipe dream, lol.

Spoiler: PL Vs. PW Spoilers
Ehh... I actually prefer DD Edgeworth over PL Vs. PW Edgeworth. The latter looks like an upstart and spoiled brat, hehe.

Author:  EdgeworthxOldbag [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

Yeah I thought it looked werid as well.

Skin is too tan, and looks awkward compared to the other sprites. Maybe PW:DD is influencing my opinion. The other character models look grand.

Author:  JesusMonroe [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why did they screw up Phoenix' model?

I generally prefer the direction Dual Destinies took with character models. Character models on the 3DS still look really weird and clay-like to me but DD's looked very crisp and beautiful. I actually prefer them to the 2D sprites. I just wish DD did more with camera angles the way PLvAA did

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