Board index » Phoenix Wright » Labyrinthia (PLvsGS)

Page 1 of 1[ 40 posts ]
 


I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILERS*Topic%20Title
User avatar

I'll be there, and I'll watch your back

Gender: Male

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 330

This topic contains ending spoilers to the whole game, so leave if you haven't beaten it!

Spoiler: Endgame
Most other late-game Phoenix Wright twists end up making everything make sense, in sort of an "ohhhh, I see" kind of way. But the revelation at the end of PLvsPWAA is a giant head-scratcher that opens up an incredible number of plot holes!

Even just going by stuff we see in the game, the absence of magic is very hard to swallow. Let's take the first witch trial: Kira casts the spell, the shades are right there with explosives, and she's invisible during this whole process. For this to work, the shades would have to throw the invisibility cloak on her, somehow hide all the explosives and such, and NOT kill Muggs and Robbs in the process somehow. Why would Muggs and Robbs become shades after the explosion? Kira survived because the witch cage wasn't actually a deathtrap, but what excuse to the muggers have?

The Golden Turnabout is far more egregious with this, though. So they knocked out Layton and Maya with the silver bell and then dragged that HUGE friggin' golden statue of Layton into the room? How did they hide it? How did they MOVE it? Who made it so accurate-looking, since Layton just arrived not a day or two ago? Why even have a gold spell since gold is freaking expensive and heavy? They couldn't just do a "turn this object into a drawing" or something easier?

Greyerl's plot line makes even less sense. Let's see...first, she accidentally turns her goat gold. For this to happen, the shades have to be total jerks! I can see them snickering as this six-year-old girl attempts to change a leaf, then they knock her out and replace her goat with a golden replica of a goat (what?? Where did they get that? Why would they make that??) prompting her to commit suicide in a river!! How psychotic are these shades, anyway?

It gets worse. For Godoor to make sense, they'd have to knock her out, bust a HOLE in the wall, and watch as she strangled a man through that hole. In other words, for all intents and purposes, they assisted in murder. Then they knock her out again, and somehow replace the hole in the wall with no one the wiser.

And the invisibility stuff makes no sense! I can maybe understand them not being able to see a specific color, but to never run into the giant bell tower in the middle of town? What if a bird perched on it? What if someone was walking behind it, can they see them? What if any of the 24/7 shades stalking people constantly ever got a tiny amount of dirt or whatever on their robes? Are they 100% spot-free all the time? It didn't look like their outfits were 100% pure black anyway (like the masks), why don't people see floating random colors with the shades? How can the invisibility cloak work on Kira (during the murder) if she can't see it? How would she even be able to see THROUGH it? They don't give you X-ray vision!

How does Luke operate an invisible crane machine? How has no one run into or interacted with these cranes? What if it snows or rains? Don't people think it's weird that they keep passing out and waking up on the floor somewhere? Who determines who's a "witch," and why? You drive children to suicide, and if/when they're punished, they become shades/slaves and have their memory wiped again! Why does the game treat catching Espella/Eve at the end like a big victory? She's still suicidal, after all--nothing really fixed that!

How did Phoenix/Maya get sucked into a book? How did witches fly around London? Why does passing Espella's guilt about the bell onto Eve make anything better? How were the 500+ deaths in the fire massacre covered up? The Storyteller is a horrible person with awful ideas and he just gets away with all this disastrous stuff. And what was with his "I'm dying and there's no cure. But there's now a cure!" bit at the end??

I really could go on for awhile, but you get the point. It just felt so, so crazy to me. After a full game of pointing out tiny contradictions, the game drops a zillion huge ones on you at once. Maybe that's the real problem of mixing these two series together--the Layton-like ending clashes horribly with the Phoenix-like real-world logic. It would have been more believable if they'd just stuck with the magic in the first place, honestly. At least neither series is completely realistic already.


:larry:
~Link to songs composed for PW Musical (click!)~

Justice For All [Mia]
I'll Be There [Phoenix/Maya]
The Samurai Always Wins [Cody]
Decree of the Prosecutor [Edgeworth]
A Guy You Can Trust [Gumshoe]
It's Gotta Be the Butz! [Larry]
Justice For All - Reprise [Phoenix/Mia]
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14044

Excessive drug use answers a lot of your problems actually xP especially the London stuff.

Some of that is explained in the post game extra content.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: None specified

Location: I'm at soup.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:18 pm

Posts: 1601

TriforceBun wrote:
How does Luke operate an invisible crane machine?

Here's a better question:
Image
How did he get in the crane when he was standing in the crowd a minute ago?
"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

The execution is ready, Your Honor.

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:32 am

Posts: 95

Yeah... The game (both figuratively AND literally) lost its magic when it took that turn for the worst. Did they even PLAN that to happen beforehand?
The execution rests, Your Honor.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

~Die-Hard Gavinners Fan~

Gender: Female

Location: Ontario, Canada

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:30 pm

Posts: 120

TriforceBun wrote:
the Layton-like ending clashes horribly with the Phoenix-like real-world


Pretty much this. All what you said (which are totally valid points) are mind blowingly unacceptable for an Ace Attorney game because questions and events are usually neatly wrapped up and explained at the end(or even part of the way) much like a mystery novel. But this kind of build up and explanation at the end of the game are classic Layton game scenarios. These fantastical romantic notions of the surreal being explained by mild science, human intervention, and that touch of extremely stretched reality, are classic Layton.
There are strikingly similar concepts in the ending of this game, with other Layton games.

So yeah, that's why I got over the ending and accepted the ending for what it was; this isn't JUST an Ace Attorney game. But through and through, I found this game to be a PERFECT mash-up of the two series' and I was upset that there aren't more of these on the way! :-P
Image
Rhythm Heaven+Ace Attorney. Uncle Ray and Klavier Gavin need to be in court together. <3
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've vanished, like a ghooooost...

Gender: Female

Location: Unfortunately, in school...

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 am

Posts: 583

TriforceBun wrote:
Spoiler: Endgame
How did Phoenix/Maya get sucked into a book? How did witches fly around London? Why does passing Espella's guilt about the bell onto Eve make anything better? How were the 500+ deaths in the fire massacre covered up? The Storyteller is a horrible person with awful ideas and he just gets away with all this disastrous stuff. And what was with his "I'm dying and there's no cure. But there's now a cure!" bit at the end??


Spoiler: Explaining sum stuffs
The sucked into a book thing can be explained away by those sneaky, sneaky, animators. They did that on purpose, along with there being no pause in between times of the incident (for example, Darklaw saying Goldor and like only a second passed before Luke walked in). This also explains the Kira burning Robbs and Muggs burning - they woke everyone up to a fire, but there was a pause between that they didn't show.
I think the witches flying around is kinda explained a little later on... Labrelum Inc is supposedly the owner of that park in London or something like that, so that explains the statues and the witches flying in the park. The witch that was flying around randomly right before the PLvsAA logo came up in that one cutscene, however? Dunno.
The whole Eve/Espella thing didn't make anything better. Someone did it, and that's really all they needed to know, but I guess they did that for plot's sake.
The fire cover-up is easy to explain away - only four people survived that fire. So they just didn't tell anyone. Or maybe they did, and that's how some residents came to Labyrinthia in the first place, to help with repairs or something. Labyrinthia is a secluded city, remember, so maybe there weren't that many people that really knew it existed.
Yeah, the Storyteller's pretty bad. And the whole "disease with no cure but now there is" thing is really out of the blue, yeah.

Also, I think the whole "passing out and waking up on the floor" thing can be explained by the *ahem* aspect of magic that Barnham explained once. Most likely, when they first wake up, they're dazed. They stand up, and their mind subconsciously cuts that part out of their memory. Then they make the assumption that what they saw before passing out and what they saw when they woke up are only separated by a second, making everything blend together.

Or maybe these are just the ramblings of a Professor Layton addict. I don't know.

I AM IN SCHOOL, SO IF I END UP NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN THAT'S WHY :larry:
For me, tumblr is more easily accessible on a day to day basis, so if you REALLY want to, go there. :think:
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Yatta.

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6089

sumguy28 wrote:
TriforceBun wrote:
How does Luke operate an invisible crane machine?

Here's a better question:
Image
How did he get in the crane when he was standing in the crowd a minute ago?

Now that I look at this picture out of context, it's hilarious.

"Don't do it, Espella! Don't you dare moon everyone in the crowd with your antics!"

I'm sorry. Please, carry on.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.
Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

The execution is ready, Your Honor.

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:32 am

Posts: 95

I think this turn in writing (i.e., science over magic) came about when they tried to bring Maya and Layton back from the dead... and this is what they came up with.
The execution rests, Your Honor.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14044

Spoiler: Big ones
I think I remember reading somewhere that the way they explain away the London stuff is by saying the participants involved were all under the effect of the hallucinogenic drugs. The very ones that allow the citizens to believe in magic in the first place. Espella and Carmine had recently escaped the island and were still carrying a book with the drugged ink with them. Which is what made the witches look more monstrous. Same when Espella took the book to Layton and Luke. Likewise for Nick and Maya when they open the book and get a full doze of the drug.


Think this information was in the character concept art somewhere. Probably for The Great witch Bezella.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

A user has no custom title

Gender: Male

Location: Everywhere simultaneously

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:00 pm

Posts: 1151

Yeah, the ending was silly. Even by Layton standards, it was ridiculously riddled with plotholes and just felt underwhelming.

Spoiler: general spoilers about this game and the Layton series
Not to mention that there's only so many times a series can use "hallucinogenic gas" as an explanation before it gets old.

All the other Layton games from what I remember had some sort of major antagonist for us to defeat, whether that was Don Paolo or Descole or the vampire dude or Clive or whoever. I felt like there was actually a climax in each of them. Here, all of the tension abruptly stopped right after you revealed that there was no such thing such as magic or witches, and therefore it was impossible for there to even be a Big Bad. At that point, it was just the Storyteller giving exposition for two hours.

Also, did they ever explain how Carmine's car got all the way up in the tree and had the giant handprint on it? I can't remember whether or not that was explained in those little videos you unlock after beating the game.


It's kind of disappointing, because I actually loved the first 90% of the game and if not for the last 10% would probably put it up there among my top games in either series.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

professional megalomaniac

Gender: None specified

Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:41 pm

Posts: 144

Ropfa wrote:
Yeah, the ending was silly. Even by Layton standards, it was ridiculously riddled with plotholes and just felt underwhelming.

Spoiler: general spoilers about this game and the Layton series
Not to mention that there's only so many times a series can use "hallucinogenic gas" as an explanation before it gets old.

All the other Layton games from what I remember had some sort of major antagonist for us to defeat, whether that was Don Paolo or Descole or the vampire dude or Clive or whoever. I felt like there was actually a climax in each of them. Here, all of the tension abruptly stopped right after you revealed that there was no such thing such as magic or witches, and therefore it was impossible for there to even be a Big Bad. At that point, it was just the Storyteller giving exposition for two hours.

Also, did they ever explain how Carmine's car got all the way up in the tree and had the giant handprint on it? I can't remember whether or not that was explained in those little videos you unlock after beating the game.


It's kind of disappointing, because I actually loved the first 90% of the game and if not for the last 10% would probably put it up there among my top games in either series.

It was explained, but the answer is pretty much what you'd expect.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Posts: 924

I think my biggest complaint about the whole story is that aside from Aldente, there were no truly evil people in this game. The closest it came was Darklaw, and she was too sympathetic in some ways. And the worst thing the Storyteller did was give his daughter an overly complicated excuse for therapy.
Image
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

A user has no custom title

Gender: Male

Location: Everywhere simultaneously

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:00 pm

Posts: 1151

That's pretty much my thoughts exactly. There was no main villain, and once you found that out there was no tension. A good chunk of the enjoyment in Ace Attorney trials is tension between you and the culprit. There was no tension here, because for the entire epilogue nothing was at stake anymore and the only thing opposing you was Espella's suicidal thoughts (and that was only briefly).

Something like that might work in a purely Layton game, where those stories do have a pattern of things turning out where the bad guy was really just misunderstood the whole time. However, when you're in court having a tense showdown, it really ruins the mood to find out that the closest person you have to an antagonist had good intentions in mind for everybody... and then to continue cross-examining that person for a full hour or two. It might have gone over with me better if they'd just made the epilogue more concise. Not even Return of the King dragged out its ending that much.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1544

TheDoctor wrote:
there were no truly evil people in this game

I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14044

JesusMonroe wrote:
TheDoctor wrote:
there were no truly evil people in this game

I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension


Eh what they did was an accident followed up by a desperate attempt to fix everything. Good intentions, plus nothing massively untoward. Strange as it seems we're told everyone in the town is there by choice, they signed a contractual obligation to forget everything and live there and ultimately no physical harm came to them.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1544

Pierre wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
TheDoctor wrote:
there were no truly evil people in this game

I don't know, Arthur and Newton were pretty fucking horrible people. Your complaint still stands since Takumi treats them as sympathetic and misguided so there is no tension


Eh what they did was an accident followed up by a desperate attempt to fix everything. Good intentions, plus nothing massively untoward. Strange as it seems we're told everyone in the town is there by choice, they signed a contractual obligation to forget everything and live there and ultimately no physical harm came to them.

People like Jean likely didn't sign anything, though (and if she did, she was too young to agree to it). She attempted suicide and tried to kill someone during the experiment. Plus, people like Kira are definitely falling on psychologically hard times, as well as any other witch who had to "die" and become a shade

They had good intentions but so did Gant. Sure, their crimes aren't nearly as terrible, but it just bothered me how Newton was portrayed as a paragon of goodness
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Posts: 924

I'll give you the fact that the witch trials were overly traumatic for those who were chosen to be the culprits. Why burn the "witches" at the stake? Why not just perform an "exorcism" or something? (obviously, because there would be no tension in the game otherwise, but that's besides the point).

For that matter, what's up with the ridiculous arbitrary rule that only women can be witches? Why even bother making the distinction?

I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist).
Image
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14044

TheDoctor wrote:
I'll give you the fact that the witch trials were overly traumatic for those who were chosen to be the culprits. Why burn the "witches" at the stake? Why not just perform an "exorcism" or something? (obviously, because there would be no tension in the game otherwise, but that's besides the point).

For that matter, what's up with the ridiculous arbitrary rule that only women can be witches? Why even bother making the distinction?

I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist).


Yeah...that bothered me a fair bit. I mean I like a little bit of effort in cases but because of that rule the second case becomes terribly obvious...the third case as well actually seemed that way once you figure out they are trying to play you that way.

Yeah her name is "Kira" I can buy that's an obvious clue. She's also the only 'seriously drawn' female in the entire cast and (while perhaps I missed her) she's the only female you didn't meet and chat with in the streets beforehand.

Then I figure "Huh that was super obvious, the gender limitation was also kind of weak". Then in comes Jean...obviously a woman with a unisex name pretending to be a man and I'm like :ron: "You think this is going to be a plot twist? Really?"
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Yatta.

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6089

TheDoctor wrote:
I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist).

But then it wouldn't have been a Layton game.

With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is.

Not saying that the AA games are that realistic in the first place, but they have much of their foundation grounded very well.

If anything, I think we just had a little too much of Layton in this game and not enough of Phoenix, even though the trials were definitely the star of the game.

Pierre wrote:
Yeah...that bothered me a fair bit. I mean I like a little bit of effort in cases but because of that rule the second case becomes terribly obvious...the third case as well actually seemed that way once you figure out they are trying to play you that way.

Yeah her name is "Kira" I can buy that's an obvious clue. She's also the only 'seriously drawn' female in the entire cast and (while perhaps I missed her) she's the only female you didn't meet and chat with in the streets beforehand.

Then I figure "Huh that was super obvious, the gender limitation was also kind of weak". Then in comes Jean...obviously a woman with a unisex name pretending to be a man and I'm like :ron: "You think this is going to be a plot twist? Really?"

The only culprit that wasn't obvious was in the last one, but the last trial has so many other problems anyway.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.
Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Posts: 1544

I hope I wasn't the only one who chose the cat as the bell-ringer when the time came
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've vanished, like a ghooooost...

Gender: Female

Location: Unfortunately, in school...

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 am

Posts: 583

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is.

Actually, I must say that the only Layton games that really kinda made sense were Last Specter and Miracle Mask. Curious Village didn't make sense at all because...
Spoiler: Do I really need a spoiler...?
EVERYONE'S A ROBOT. That's in the same realm as the golems in Azran Legacy, becuase those robots could think and reason and... make puzzles, I suppose. And besides, the whole "golden apple only shows up when she's happy" thing flew RIGHT over my head. Honestly, the game that made the most sense was Miracle Mask in a sense that the "Miracles" were faked and the Azran ruins were... Azran-ish, so they can do that stuff. And the only Laytonesque absurd thing about Last Specter was the magical air in the golden garden and the fact that Loosha existed.


Anyway, the way this relates to PLvsPWAA is that it kinda went OVERBOARD with that absurdity there at the end. Compared to the other Layton games, it indeed seems absolutely inconcievalable.

Edit: Also...

Pierre wrote:
Spoiler: Big ones
I think I remember reading somewhere that the way they explain away the London stuff is by saying the participants involved were all under the effect of the hallucinogenic drugs. The very ones that allow the citizens to believe in magic in the first place. Espella and Carmine had recently escaped the island and were still carrying a book with the drugged ink with them. Which is what made the witches look more monstrous. Same when Espella took the book to Layton and Luke. Likewise for Nick and Maya when they open the book and get a full doze of the drug.


Think this information was in the character concept art somewhere. Probably for The Great witch Bezella.

Yes, it was.
I'll quote the whole thing:
Spoiler: Concept Art 9: Great Witch
"The Great Witch as she appears in Labyrinthia. The idea was that she was seen differently in the opening because of the ink's effects. The golden gauntlets are the same."

I AM IN SCHOOL, SO IF I END UP NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN THAT'S WHY :larry:
For me, tumblr is more easily accessible on a day to day basis, so if you REALLY want to, go there. :think:
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Yatta.

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6089

JesusMonroe wrote:
I hope I wasn't the only one who chose the cat as the bell-ringer when the time came

I swear the cat was the most suspicious of all.

TheBlackquillz wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is.

Actually, I must say that the only Layton games that really kinda made sense were Last Specter and Miracle Mask. Curious Village didn't make sense at all because...
Spoiler: Do I really need a spoiler...?
EVERYONE'S A ROBOT. That's in the same realm as the golems in Azran Legacy, becuase those robots could think and reason and... make puzzles, I suppose. And besides, the whole "golden apple only shows up when she's happy" thing flew RIGHT over my head. Honestly, the game that made the most sense was Miracle Mask in a sense that the "Miracles" were faked and the Azran ruins were... Azran-ish, so they can do that stuff. And the only Laytonesque absurd thing about Last Specter was the magical air in the golden garden and the fact that Loosha existed.


Anyway, the way this relates to PLvsPWAA is that it kinda went OVERBOARD with that absurdity there at the end. Compared to the other Layton games, it indeed seems absolutely inconcievalable.

Yeah, but at least the first game at least tried to lampshade the fact that everyone gave puzzles for no real reason. Besides, the purpose of that "curious village" was an endearing one.

Here, it feels like old news. Like, Takumi wanted to write something really cool, but ended up writing a PLvsAA fanfic, except it's official.

Anyway, it's been a while since I've last played any of the Layton games, so excuse me for missing some details. But I have to disagree on the "final boss" puzzles of Last Specter. Thems was kooky. I'll give you Miracle Mask, though.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.
Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gardevoir lover

Gender: Male

Location: Puerto rico

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:20 am

Posts: 2022

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
TheDoctor wrote:
I just think the plot would have been more enjoyable had everything been more straightforward, and it turned out Darklaw was Bezella the whole time (or heck, have Bezella turn out to be a male character, turning that ridiculous rule into a last minute plot twist).

But then it wouldn't have been a Layton game.

With exception of the first Layton game, which is still within the realm of reasonability, the rest have so many degrees of WTFery that fans of these games eventually give up on logic and take it for what it is.



This is pretty much how i felt about the whole thing.
Image

My DA account can be found here: http://klonoahedgehog.deviantart.com/
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I'll be there, and I'll watch your back

Gender: Male

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 330

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that had an issue with the end sequence (and the last trial in general, really); I had browsed several talkback threads here and it seemed that almost everyone preferred PLvsPWAA to Dual Destinies. But as a longtime PW fan, I couldn't agree at all. I just had way too many issues with the "world" of Vs, and while some of the stories would've been quite nice if left alone (Jean's backstory was perhaps the best in the game), the endgame twist kinda reveals everything the game has been building up to basically be a giant facade. It almost made me feel like I'd just been kinda wasting my time.

I also definitely agree that the stakes didn't seem all that high during the last trial, since it was mainly just the Storyteller and Darklaw revealing stuff over and over. There was no love-to-hate villain or even (what could be just as effective) an endearingly-sympathetic villain like in T&T. Just someone really misguided who wasn't malicious enough to want to take down, but made way too many boneheaded decisions to be sympathetic.
~Link to songs composed for PW Musical (click!)~

Justice For All [Mia]
I'll Be There [Phoenix/Maya]
The Samurai Always Wins [Cody]
Decree of the Prosecutor [Edgeworth]
A Guy You Can Trust [Gumshoe]
It's Gotta Be the Butz! [Larry]
Justice For All - Reprise [Phoenix/Mia]
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

Gender: Male

Location: A land of ignorance and fear.

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14044

Eh it beats dual destinies for features if you ask me. I love the setting and how it works (the entire audience having no clue what logic is floored me) and some things just seem so refined. Having villainous breakdowns voiced? Its awesome. Put it in the main series. Mob trials? Tonnes of fun. Awesome dynamic camera angles? Great. These are the places where I feel it trumps Ace Attorney 5.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I'll be there, and I'll watch your back

Gender: Male

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 330

I like the gameplay diversity of the multiple witnesses, but I thought it flattened the characters out too much. Like, instead of a single witness being happy, then angry, then quirky, etc all during a single testimony, you have The Happy One, The Angry One, The Quirky One all kind of spread out through different characters, so none of them really get a chance to develop (with the exception of the villains, I suppose). I mean, characters like Birdly and Mary and Knightle don't compare to Adrian or Maggey or even silly characters like Moe and Oldbag (who all get some depth thanks to the extra time spent with them).

Maybe this issue could've been rectified with more of being able to talk to these witnesses during investigation sequences, but most of those just involved solving puzzles rather than learning about backstories.
~Link to songs composed for PW Musical (click!)~

Justice For All [Mia]
I'll Be There [Phoenix/Maya]
The Samurai Always Wins [Cody]
Decree of the Prosecutor [Edgeworth]
A Guy You Can Trust [Gumshoe]
It's Gotta Be the Butz! [Larry]
Justice For All - Reprise [Phoenix/Mia]
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Yatta.

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6089

That's a recurring issue in the Layton games, since they rarely develop side characters and focus entirely on the main cast. It's a reasonable shift of focus, but then it just means everyone has puzzles for no reason.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

Click here for the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney Translation Project Blog!
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.

Also, click here for the current archive of fanfiction or here for the backup archive. Click here for the blog that updates it.
Includes translations of misc. fan works related or not to AA.
Also, a very popular fanfic ask meme.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

A Kirby and AA fan

Gender: Male

Location: The Netherlands

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:01 pm

Posts: 1032

Pierre wrote:
Eh it beats dual destinies for features if you ask me. I love the setting and how it works (the entire audience having no clue what logic is floored me) and some things just seem so refined. Having villainous breakdowns voiced? Its awesome. Put it in the main series. Mob trials? Tonnes of fun. Awesome dynamic camera angles? Great. These are the places where I feel it trumps Ace Attorney 5.

Only under the condition that the voices are good. Like they were in PLvsAA. But not like DD.
*recalls Hugh screaming*
*shudder*
Image
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

A user has no custom title

Gender: Male

Location: Everywhere simultaneously

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:00 pm

Posts: 1151

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
I swear the cat was the most suspicious of all.


For the longest time, I thought the cat would end up being the witch in disguise, and she was an animagus or something. Either that or she was Darklaw's familiar. I thought that she was mind controlling Espella whenever she went into a trance and her eyes turned blue. Then the cat walked right across the witness stand during the final trial while Espella was testifying and I thought "Well, duh. This has to be it. Why else would they be shoving the cat in our face right now?"

And I wouldn't mind more voiced breakdowns if they were like Kira's. That stuff was golden.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Posts: 924

That cat was the most ridiculous red herring in the history of these series.
Image
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Enoshima Junko-chan!

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Posts: 844

Spoiler:
When the Storyteller revealed that Labyrinthia was a research facility, I was completely surprised. In a good way. I thought they were going to take the story in an Allegory of the Cave style, where perception became reality for the Labyrinthians. And they did, but everything from research facility testimony onward was a load of exposition, and the trial was dragging as it was.

Certain questions were never answered. How in the world was I supposed to know that the Shades were creating the illusion of magic? Did the main four characters sign the contract? How do you explain the witch kidnapping Espella from Layton's office how do you explain Carmine's crash? How did he get on the ship? Did anybody honestly not come into contact with the hidden machines or the invisible bell tower?

11037
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1631

If it's true that both Takumi and Hino wrote the story, then I've always had a nasty suspicion that Hino had a major part in the endgame.

That or it's the typical Takumi ending fumble that was also a problem in AJAA. I think maybe he's gotten sloppy, so prove me wrong, DGS!

On the note of this vs AA5: This game actually makes me laugh at least once in every chapter. Dual Destinies made me laugh maybe three times in total and I never felt like I was dozing off because of boring writing in this game. Quite the opposite, it intrigued me all the way through, but the ending did make me slightly disappointed.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've vanished, like a ghooooost...

Gender: Female

Location: Unfortunately, in school...

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 am

Posts: 583

MBr wrote:
Spoiler:
Certain questions were never answered. How in the world was I supposed to know that the Shades were creating the illusion of magic? Did the main four characters sign the contract? How do you explain the witch kidnapping Espella from Layton's office how do you explain Carmine's crash? How did he get on the ship? Did anybody honestly not come into contact with the hidden machines or the invisible bell tower?

Spoiler: I think I can answer a few of those...
The shades thing? There will never be an answer for that, unless you count the fact that the main characters recognized the smell.

The contract? Layton and Luke, 100% no, because they remembered everything. Phoenix and Maya, I don't think so. Darklaw says that their appearance in Labyrinthia was an accident, so they were probably just drugged. Also, that contract is an official legal document (at least we hope so) and the person must sign it of their own volition. So probably no signing of contracts.

The witches in London? No idea. Drugs?

Carmine's crash? That's explained in a special episode - those statues are really robots that Labrelum purchased and placed in that park for some reason. So it was the robots who caused the crash.

Carmine getting on the ship? Never explained, though my guess is that he snuck on.

Invisible machines and bell tower? Dunno, but my guess might be that Darklaw did some memory wipe thing if someone ran into one...?

:will: Wheee!

I AM IN SCHOOL, SO IF I END UP NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN THAT'S WHY :larry:
For me, tumblr is more easily accessible on a day to day basis, so if you REALLY want to, go there. :think:
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: None specified

Location: Avengers Mansion

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:43 pm

Posts: 79

The ending was lame but remember this is a cross over game and most cross overs I've seen are usually dumb this one is no exception
All Lives Matter
Destiny 2
Dream Big
#Vegas Strong
#Houston Strong
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Location: Dominican Republic

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:06 pm

Posts: 634

So since crossovers usually suck it's jutified that this one did,even though the rest of the game was decent?
Signature loading, please wait...
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

I've vanished, like a ghooooost...

Gender: Female

Location: Unfortunately, in school...

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 am

Posts: 583

(This thread is just a month old, but if someone thinks that it's necro, sorry for necro-posting)
So I think I just might have figured out the whole issue behind the fact that the machines were 1) not making shadows and 2) not being ran into.
Spoiler: At the very very end
For issue number 1, this may be stretching it a bit, but they said that the stuff that they painted on the machines was the only thing that can be described as pure black. As I recall, the Storyteller explained that they "absorbed all light without reflecting any"... so maybe since they absorbed the sunlight, they didn't create any shadows. This is actually just a personal theory of mine, I actually have no idea if it's true or not.

For issue number 2, I'd like to recall the cutscene where they yell "Taelende" and the view pans out to show the entire town. If you look at all of the machines, all of the machines except two or three are on top of people's houses and attatched to other machines themselves. So, people don't run into them. As for the ones on the ground (like the one Luke drove), if you look at the before and after of Labyrinthia, you will see that there was a tent where the machine is now. That tent was always there, and I'm guessing it had no distinct purpose. Maybe Darklaw hid the machines withing other things as well?

As I said, these are just my own theories, and probably not all correct, but that's what I think they were trying to hint at.

I AM IN SCHOOL, SO IF I END UP NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN THAT'S WHY :larry:
For me, tumblr is more easily accessible on a day to day basis, so if you REALLY want to, go there. :think:
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Enoshima Junko-chan!

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Posts: 844

Bringing this back as I have just beaten the game again. Let's have a look:
Spoiler:
With what we, as players, investigated at the Storyteller's tower, how could Layton have come to the conclusions that he did? From what I can piece together using just the clues that were uncovered there: the Storyteller and Newton were long time friends, Bezella was a creation of the Storyteller for Espella, and Espella had a childhood friend in Eve. But how could Layton figure out that Eve was Newton's daughter and that there are machines that can't be seen? They're surprises for the sake of surprises and aren't actually hinted to.

I find that the Storyteller's motive for ending the Story - being sick - was ill-conceived as well. It would have made much more sense if the motive was linked to Newton's suicide, as the Storyteller had received his letter after the golden Layton trial. The illness is brought up and then solved a minute later.

11037
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

A Kirby and AA fan

Gender: Male

Location: The Netherlands

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:01 pm

Posts: 1032

Welcome to Layton games. Professor Layton always figures things out well before he realistically should be able to, simply "because he's so smart".
Image
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

HEY, PAL!

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:28 am

Posts: 11

Yeah, this ending's definitely kooky. To me, it seemed very Scooby-Doo-esque in that the explanations they have for earlier supernatural occurrences don't really add up most of the time (most likely because both Scooby-Doo and this game had their endings thought up after the fact). But from what I hear, this is pretty typical stuff for the Professor Layton series, so I kinda let it slide.
Re: I felt the ending was ridiculously ill-conceived! *SPOILTopic%20Title
User avatar

Yabba Dabba Doo

Gender: Male

Location: Hiding from responsibility

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:32 am

Posts: 614

Just replayed this game, and I definitely agree with the ending being completely stupid. It's ridiculous, even for Layton standards. The worst offender for me was
Spoiler:
Godoor. How the hell did they get this to work? People would've noticed that the wall had been busted open, which means they probably had to do it really precisely. But how the hell did they do that? An electric saw? Then they'd have to knock out other people too, and then do it. Then when she's done they'd have to reseal it and paint it, which would take HOURS. Then, when she woke up, it'd be morning. And how do they even get them back into position? If she was standing up when she's knocked out, then wouldn't she notice if she was on the ground right after? Or at least notice that her head would be drooping? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it just falls flat on it's face. They should've just said "Magic" and been done with it.
Page 1 of 1 [ 40 posts ] 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Labyrinthia (PLvsGS)

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO