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Re: Thoughts on AAI2 (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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The case bit me in my buttcheeks because I was SURE Ms. Hall was the true killer of 18 years ago for some reason, and I was just ready for the case to go down that route, and I remember being all "*yawn* why is this case SOO predictable!?" so I felt pretty stupid when it turns out Ms. Hall dragged out the skeletons in the closet and unravel the truth of the IS-7 incident.

I will say, like other cases of GK, I don't think I will ever replay the case again though. I'm surprised that it was actually memorable and that I have good feelings for once, but because the dialogue was pretty much just as bland as in the other cases, there's not a lot to see now that there's no mystery to braintease me anymore.
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I can imagine! I suspected her for a bit as well, and it feels like the person who really did it was a bit forgotten in all the commotion before they were dragged out from the shadows so to speak.

The cases aren't that memorable on their own, I agree with that. And although certain aspects of the game as a whole were great, the over-arching story wasn't as solid as the one in AAI either. It was a bit sprawly all in all as well as the seperate cases. On the other hand this felt more like actual investigations eventually leading to a conclusion whereas in the first AAI each case was finished in another way even though they hadn't even been brought to trial yet. To each their own whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, or if I'm completely out there - but at least it seemed that way to me by watching the second and playing the first.
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GoingforMiles wrote:
The dialogue often felt very stilted to me, however I don't know if it was in the original or if it was the translation. On the same note, Edgeworth was quite overly... pretentious. I mean he's certainly got tendencies to be otherwise as well, but not to the extent he was at times in this game. Again, it might be due to translation difficulties, I don't know.

If we're talking about Case 1 and 2, then I agree with you. This case seemed to have pretty good dialogue when it wasn't expository (which like linkenski said, was often). Edgeworth seems a lot less cocky in this case and he has an emotional stake in the incident, which is rare for GK. In a sense,
Spoiler: Case 3
Kazami indirectly murdered his father

The final confrontation against the villain is one of my favorites in the series, even though the contradiction is pretty obvious. The Presto theme playing swells the tension up to unbearable levels

Anyway, back on topic. The dialogue in this and case 5 is probably the most well balanced. Case 4 actually has the least expository dialogue, but they go overboard on the opposite end of the spectrum (kind of like the horrible friendship speech in DD)
linkenski wrote:
Oh, and JesusMonroe: I'd probably say 3-3 is my favorite 3rd case. It might not have the most sympathetic motive for the villain :P but it is so full of hysterical dialogue and I like the investigation segments in it... not to mention Godot is super funny as well.

3-3 is pretty average/below average but I agree with you about the humor. It's definitely one of the funniest characters in the series and I love Jean Armstrong. Viola is pretty great, too, for a one-off character. I actually love Furio Tigre's motive and it was such an "Ohhhh" moment when it's pieced together (though I think he and Kudo are pretty lackluster as characters, I also hate Maggey). The case is also by far my boy Gumshoe's best case (this or 1-5). It's great development for him
linkenski wrote:
Does that also mean you haven't seen or played the entirety of AAI2-3? I have to say, I didn't expect it to be as good as it was, because I haven't really seen the same quality in neither DD nor AAI before.

I'm going to regret saying this as a Yamazaki defender
In the past 1-2 weeks, I've started to like Dual Destinies less and less. I still love it but as an AA game, it might be my least favorite (it juggles the spot with Justice for All). It didn't really hit me until I was talking in depth to my friend about the AA story (only the essential details) and Dual Destinies was the one I got through the quickest and it was the most boring. I got through the story of T&T and JFA quickly, too, but I kind of see the original trilogy as one story
I still love AAI, though, and think it's by far the most underrated game of the series
linkenski wrote:
The case bit me in my buttcheeks because I was SURE Ms. Hall was the true killer of 18 years ago for some reason, and I was just ready for the case to go down that route, and I remember being all "*yawn* why is this case SOO predictable!?" so I felt pretty stupid when it turns out Ms. Hall dragged out the skeletons in the closet and unravel the truth of the IS-7 incident.

I will say, like other cases of GK, I don't think I will ever replay the case again though. I'm surprised that it was actually memorable and that I have good feelings for once, but because the dialogue was pretty much just as bland as in the other cases, there's not a lot to see now that there's no mystery to braintease me anymore.

As soon as they mentioned the Statute of Limitations could be extended due to a suspect leaving the country, I knew the killer had to be the person that left the country. In AA, justice is always served after all. I did suspect her for a while, though

This case isn't that replayable but I don't think any of the long cases are. The only cases I can replay over and over are 1-4, 1-5 (even though it's long, it's damn good), 3-2 (maybe), 3-4, 4-1 (best example), GK-2, GK-3 (I love this one :p), GK-4 (maybe), and GK2-1. After that point, I just look up my favorite scenes on Youtube (and with Dual Destinies, I just replay chapter sections)
GoingforMiles wrote:
The cases aren't that memorable on their own, I agree with that. And although certain aspects of the game as a whole were great, the over-arching story wasn't as solid as the one in AAI either.

Really? I think the overarching story of GK2 is much stronger

And linkenski, I have a feeling you're either going to really love or really hate GK2-4
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Really?


Maybe not? My memory of it is a bit vague at the moment... give me two seconds.

Image

...no. That's not right. It's more its surface that is a bit rugged and its thread is less clear than in AAI where the plot is more linear. I know there were things in the cases themselves I felt were thrown in without reason but the background story and the villain motives (especially big bad) was really good now that I think about it. And the way everything came together at last was... smarter? and a bit more complex than in AAI. I rest my case that the game itself is sprawly at times but it's true that the story is great so I take that back. xD
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I have been very presumptuous about GK2 I must admit. You just have to understand; After experiencing AAI I had such a hard time seeing how the new writer could improve as much as the rumors said, and DD mostly just reinforced that feeling.

Having played GK2 up until case 3 now, I'm beginning to better understand what it is that people like so much about it. I do hope GK2-4 as well as 5 are out soon because to be honest, my warm feelings for case3 has gotten me very excited for wwhat's next :-)
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Case 4 is more emotionally involved for Edgeworth and there's a lot more momentum in the overall story so by structure alone, it's more similar to a GS case. With dialogue, I don't remember because I never saw a notable difference. I'm gonna take a guess and say it's about the same as Case 3, though

Spoiler: Vague Case 4/5 Spoilers
My biggest problem (and I think Thane's too) is that the main villain of the case folds way too quickly. By Case 5, it's clear why he/she didn't put up much of a fight (well, he/she does put up a good fight, but you expect a lot more) but the ending is so abrupt as a result and once again, the motive is an afterthought (though the motive is explained completely in Case 5 because it's one of the mysteries. It's one of the better motives of the series). I think knowing that the end is abrupt will help your first experience with it. It's by far the shortest case of the game (besides Case 1).
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Just finished the whole game. I loved it.

Spoiler: Random thoughts about the game, blatant spoilers!
- I hated Courtney and Debeste (the younger one) for most of the game until the last case, at which I point I loved them a lot.
- In regards to Courtney and John, is it even legal for a 21-year-old to adopt an 8-year-old?
- Keyes' theme music after his (first) breakdown is KICKIN' AWESOME. I LOVE IT! Same thing with Courtney's theme music the whole game. And her ringtone is great too.
- Overall, the mastermind's plot/motive was really, really impressive and totally made up for how short case 4 was. I'd say I didn't see it coming, except I accidentally spoiled myself when I saw his breakdown on the wiki... but still! How it all played out... loved it!
- Is it just me, or were certain plot elements from AAI2 recycled for AA5? Maybe it was just the translation, but when Lang (I think it was Lang) mentioned "the ghosts of 12 years past"... well, obviously I thought about Blackquill. Also the way that there were two presidents of Zheng Fa reminded me of how there were two orcas in Turnabout Reclaimed.
- I'm really glad there was a coroner character.
- I was also impressed by Gumshoe's awesome offscreen investigating skills.
- And this one actually let you do some scientific investigation with the luminol and fingerprint powder! I was disappointed how, in AAI1, all you got to do was watch Ema run around....
- Considering this is a game about dads... do you think I should get my dad to play it? I've successfully gotten him to play half of AA1...
- I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way that the characters (especially Edgeworth) will have entire conversations about Phoenix while only referring to him as "that man" or "a certain man" is really funny to me. Although I did think it was just plain bizarre that you had what was clearly Phoenix's objection, yet they didn't use his voice clip. I mean, you might as well.
- And this does mean Kay will become a defense attorney...? Since the previous Yatagarasu team had a detective, a prosecutor, and a defense attorney... I mean, you got two out of three, might as well go all the way. And I would totally play "Kay Faraday: Ace Attorney".

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AireyVerkhovensky wrote:
Just finished the whole game. I loved it.

Spoiler: Random thoughts about the game, blatant spoilers!
- In regards to Courtney and John, is it even legal for a 21-year-old to adopt an 8-year-old?
- Is it just me, or were certain plot elements from AAI2 recycled for AA5? Maybe it was just the translation, but when Lang (I think it was Lang) mentioned "the ghosts of 12 years past"... well, obviously I thought about Blackquill. Also the way that there were two presidents of Zheng Fa reminded me of how there were two orcas in Turnabout Reclaimed.
- I was also impressed by Gumshoe's awesome offscreen investigating skills.

Spoiler:
-It might be different in Japan. In America, it is legal, but there are pre-requisites and probably a lot of legal red tape. I'd imagine it would be easier considering he's her nephew
-Nah. They always do the past incidents thing and I think the ghosts of 12 years past is a line exclusive to the patch and not the jP version (I don't remember it from dowolf's). Maybe you're right about the orcas but it's also kind of like the Iris/Dahlia thing. They're all the same twist with a different spin on it
-So was I. Great game for Gumshoe. He earned that pay bump
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JesusMonroe wrote:
AireyVerkhovensky wrote:
Just finished the whole game. I loved it.

Spoiler: Random thoughts about the game, blatant spoilers!
- In regards to Courtney and John, is it even legal for a 21-year-old to adopt an 8-year-old?
- Is it just me, or were certain plot elements from AAI2 recycled for AA5? Maybe it was just the translation, but when Lang (I think it was Lang) mentioned "the ghosts of 12 years past"... well, obviously I thought about Blackquill. Also the way that there were two presidents of Zheng Fa reminded me of how there were two orcas in Turnabout Reclaimed.
- I was also impressed by Gumshoe's awesome offscreen investigating skills.

Spoiler:
-It might be different in Japan. In America, it is legal, but there are pre-requisites and probably a lot of legal red tape. I'd imagine it would be easier considering he's her nephew
-Nah. They always do the past incidents thing and I think the ghosts of 12 years past is a line exclusive to the patch and not the jP version (I don't remember it from dowolf's). Maybe you're right about the orcas but it's also kind of like the Iris/Dahlia thing. They're all the same twist with a different spin on it
-So was I. Great game for Gumshoe. He earned that pay bump

Spoiler:
Gumshoe getting a pay raise was the real plot twist of the game...

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Fun fact: In a sense the culprit of this game is Mr. Yamazaki himself:
Spoiler: Hint
Image The kid on the right is a depiction of Mr. Yamazaki, and the kid on the left is a depiction of Mr. Eshiro.

Image
Picture: Takeshi Yamazaki


Yamazaki also appeared, disguised as Buddy Faith in AAI.
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Spoiler: Case 5
It would be more fun if they actually switched. You know, Souta Sareshiro.

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Spoiler: Entire game
Damn this game is long, but amazing. Final villain was awesome, I couldn't even guess who it was. After this game I see how people guessed the villain in DD Its got all the cameos. Ema is actually useful. You get to see Edgeworth past. Uncle Ray is too funny. Logic chess was nice but it was too easy, I really wish you get could responses when you sand outlandish thing "I'll throw you a right straight" lol. Case 1 was harder than me than case 5 for some reason. Oh yeah they really nailed down the investigation when you see different time peroids in the little thief. Gumshoe finally got his raise, I guess how he gets motivated to be the Chief of Police 7 years later. I hope Capcom doesn't announce they gonna translate this game soon, I think it would really take away from all the hard work the translators how to do
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Spoiler: Entire Game as well
- I agree with EdgeworthXOldbag (LOL nice username) that Logic Chess was a bit lacking - I expected the (often hilarious) incorrect choices to yield more than "I've got you cornered" or whatever.
- Uncle Ray's theme is the catchiest thing I've heard since forever. He was also a pretty decent character, but half the time I was expecting him to be up to something evil. I have no idea why. ;< Courtney's theme was fantastic too, as was Sirhan Dogen's. Really neat soundtrack overall.
- Like with AireyVerkhovensky, Courtney and Debeste annoyed me for most of the game. I liked the whole 'Goddess of the Law' aspect to Courtney but her judge-gimmick was kinda dumb (because honestly, how are you gonna declare someone guilty outside a trial?) Poorly done characters right up to case 5, but at least Debeste got a HUGE amount of redeeming with the whole facing-up-to-his-father thing. That was absolutely brilliant.
- Case 3 was a bit of a letdown for me, especially with Gregory freaking Edgeworth and Tyrell god-damn Badd in it. WAAAAAYYYYYY too long, the case-specific characters were dull, the whole ice-sculptures thing wasn't quite believable to me and towards the end I just didn't give a crap about who the real murderer was.
- Standout case was probably the first - quite ballsy for the game to open up with that kinda premise and it worked beautifully. Horace Knightley is definitely one of my favourite characters in terms of animations. 4 was also great because Kay was not annoying for once and I liked the whole PIC hearing subplot.
- Speaking of Kay, I'm not quite sure why she was even in the game to begin with.
- Thought Nicole Swift was meant as a substitute for Lotta, and while she was a great character in her own right (her microphone gimmick cracked me up every time), when the real deal showed up later on I was like HELLZ YEAH.
- Simon Keyes may just be my second favourite villain in the series (Dahlia Hawthorne being the first, of course). I still can't believe the writers went as far to use the whole "Believe in the one you're defending" idea to actually get him off the hook - and in the very end, BOOM, surprise, the guy the pseudo-defense team BELIEVED IN is the mastermind behind the whole freaking game! Again, a ballsy move that paid out in dividends. Also, I liked how it seemed he was basically a victim of circumstance and it was the cruel nature of the world itself that turned him into something twisted - as opposed to the pure evil personalities many villains in the series seem to possess. The one thing I was unsure of was how apparently he wasn't sure who his father was? Or am I missing someone with regards to the PH ring confusion?
Also, that part where he was about to break down to his father's theme and then goes "Just kidding" was freaking GOLD.

Overall, another solid entry to the whole AA franchise, but I think I may prefer the first AAI overall - IMO the overarching storyline in AAI1 was a bit more cohesive, and Courtney and Debeste were a bit too much, as was Case 3.


Also, I think the translation team deserves +100 shootouts for the excellent work. Edgeworth's, Gumshoe's and Kay's personalities were kept intact and I only spotted, like, two or three typos in the whole thing. Great job y'all. :basil:
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Yellow Magician wrote:
Spoiler: Entire Game as well
- I agree with EdgeworthXOldbag (LOL nice username) that Logic Chess was a bit lacking - I expected the (often hilarious) incorrect choices to yield more than "I've got you cornered" or whatever.
- Case 3 was a bit of a letdown for me, especially with Gregory freaking Edgeworth and Tyrell god-damn Badd in it. WAAAAAYYYYYY too long, the case-specific characters were dull, the whole ice-sculptures thing wasn't quite believable to me and towards the end I just didn't give a crap about who the real murderer was.
- Speaking of Kay, I'm not quite sure why she was even in the game to begin with
- Simon Keyes may just be my second favourite villain in the series (Dahlia Hawthorne being the first, of course). I still can't believe the writers went as far to use the whole "Believe in the one you're defending" idea to actually get him off the hook - and in the very end, BOOM, surprise, the guy the pseudo-defense team BELIEVED IN is the mastermind behind the whole freaking game! Again, a ballsy move that paid out in dividends. Also, I liked how it seemed he was basically a victim of circumstance and it was the cruel nature of the world itself that turned him into something twisted - as opposed to the pure evil personalities many villains in the series seem to possess. The one thing I was unsure of was how apparently he wasn't sure who his father was? Or am I missing someone with regards to the PH ring confusion?
Also, that part where he was about to break down to his father's theme and then goes "Just kidding" was freaking GOLD.

Overall, another solid entry to the whole AA franchise, but I think I may prefer the first AAI overall - IMO the overarching storyline in AAI1 was a bit more cohesive, and Courtney and Debeste were a bit too much, as was Case 3.


Also, I think the translation team deserves +100 shootouts for the excellent work. Edgeworth's, Gumshoe's and Kay's personalities were kept intact and I only spotted, like, two or three typos in the whole thing. Great job y'all. :basil:

Spoiler:
-Logic chess was lacking, but I think it was all made worth it for the last one with Debeste
-I actually loved the case-specific characters in Case 3. Gregory was perfect and I want to see more of his rivalry with VK in a possible sequel (unlikely since this game implied that this was the first time the two met, which is a shame because I imagined that they were as fierce rivals as Mia and Redd White). Tsukasa was appropriately tragic (though a bit boring at first), Kazami was a pretty great villain and just smart enough to provide decent opposition. Delicy was kind of like Bikini. She didn't really add much. Tenkai is by far the best defendant of the series, though. Every time I think about him, I just love him more. His theme is incredible, he's pretty friendly, and besides Will Powers, Maggey, and Larry, I think he's the only defendant in the series who truly didn't deserve what happened to him at all. Edgeworth in 1-4 knew that it was shady meeting Hammond on a boat. Maya in 1-2 was agreeing to hide evidence from a criminal. Tenkai did nothing wrong and got 18 years in prison for it, only to find out his surrogate daughter is now going to prison for his sake. It's pretty depressing and I actually felt that he helped humanize Gregory and make Von Karma and Kazami even more evil. I could feel the weight of Gregory's failure that Tateyuki inherited and with Miles, I felt like it was my duty to set things right by rectifying the mistakes of his father and mentor. Tenkai was absolutely perfect and I never felt more victory in an AA game than when I set him free (and I loved Badd even more when he gave Tenkai the sweets). The case was too long, though. It definitely could've cut a section or two out
-Kay is just Edgeworth's assistant now. It's no different than Maya appearing in JFA
-Simon was a very well done villain, even moreso when you consider the fact that if he had done nothing, he would've just spent the rest of his life being tormented and eventually killed by Bansai/Miwa. I think most people in his situations would fight back and that was especially characterized well since Dogen had a strong influence on him and he didn't want to be murdered like his father. As for your question, Simon lost his memory, but he remembered that Naito tied him up. When he learned that Hyodo was killed, he assumed that his father was the victim, just as he was a victim to Naito tying him up. That's about it. He thought Naito was evil and had an evil father. The PH ring was just something that Naito inherited from his real father
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Spoiler: Game Spoilers
- While I do sympathise with the plight of the defendant in case 3, I find it strange that he could be positive despite being in prison for the past 18 years for a crime he wouldn't commit - and then, once he'd been released, be happy at the result and not really mentioning how he lost 18 years of his life - not to mention the jailing of his assistant.
- At least Maya was relevant in the second case of JFA - the whole Fey family was fleshed out as well. Kay in GK2 was just...Kay in GK2.
- Ohhh..I guess that makes sense wrt Simon and the ring, cheers

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Yellow Magician wrote:
Spoiler: Game Spoilers
- While I do sympathise with the plight of the defendant in case 3, I find it strange that he could be positive despite being in prison for the past 18 years for a crime he wouldn't commit - and then, once he'd been released, be happy at the result and not really mentioning how he lost 18 years of his life - not to mention the jailing of his assistant.
- At least Maya was relevant in the second case of JFA - the whole Fey family was fleshed out as well. Kay in GK2 was just...Kay in GK2.
- Ohhh..I guess that makes sense wrt Simon and the ring, cheers

Spoiler: Game spooilers
Kay's storyline was done in AAI, case 4 she gets introduced and in case 5, he finds her dad's killer, I really don't think they could expand it from there
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Yellow Magician wrote:
Spoiler: Game Spoilers
- While I do sympathise with the plight of the defendant in case 3, I find it strange that he could be positive despite being in prison for the past 18 years for a crime he wouldn't commit - and then, once he'd been released, be happy at the result and not really mentioning how he lost 18 years of his life - not to mention the jailing of his assistant.
- At least Maya was relevant in the second case of JFA - the whole Fey family was fleshed out as well. Kay in GK2 was just...Kay in GK2.
- Ohhh..I guess that makes sense wrt Simon and the ring, cheers

Spoiler: Game
-I see why this could be bothersome, but I kind of just found that it came with the strength of his character. Seeing how disheveled he looked in comparison to his 18 years ago sprite was enough for me. Thinking about Tenkai's struggle is one of the more sad stories in AA. The devs picked a good character for Gregory to die for
-And Kay was relevant in Case 4 of GK2, while Case 5 fleshed out the legacy of the Yatagarasu, so it's ok, right?
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So, I was looking over AAI and while I do prefer its sequel, something that was very cool about the first game was its tight pacing. It's by far the best paced game of the series (bar the dragged out last case hehe) and the cases feel shorter, but that's because hardly any time is wasted on them. Cases 2 and 3 are the best examples; you're solving a murder and nothing else

In this game, the only cases with the really tight pacing are 1 and 4 (and maybe 5. It did have a lot of material to cover so it was handled the best it realistically could be). I don't really know what I'm trying to say. Looking back at Cases like GK2-2, they really could've completely cut Orinaka out of the case and put the hole in Sawhit's cell. That would cut a good two hours off the case immediately. The only thing we'd lose is the suspicion that the dog killed the victim
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JesusMonroe wrote:
So, I was looking over AAI and while I do prefer its sequel, something that was very cool about the first game was its tight pacing. It's by far the best paced game of the series (bar the dragged out last case hehe) and the cases feel shorter, but that's because hardly any time is wasted on them. Cases 2 and 3 are the best examples; you're solving a murder and nothing else

In this game, the only cases with the really tight pacing are 1 and 4 (and maybe 5. It did have a lot of material to cover so it was handled the best it realistically could be). I don't really know what I'm trying to say. Looking back at Cases like GK2-2, they really could've completely cut Orinaka out of the case and put the hole in Sawhit's cell. That would cut a good two hours off the case immediately. The only thing we'd lose is the suspicion that the dog killed the victim


case 2 to me not as well paced as the others. there is alot of fluff that i would have either cut of shorten and nothing would have been lost.

Spoiler:
i also feel case 5 while a good case focuses more on the backstory then the murder itself. about half the case is about getting Blaise convicted and dealing with Courtney's son. and then finally the incident that killed the original president. and edgeworth kinda forgets there is a murder going on. it's like how in the final case of the last game DeMasque IIis killed but he is not important and just feels like a plot point to get alba convicted in the end. it does get back on track but overall case 5 of this game feels like the murder was not the main focus until we finally confront simon and then the game is like " oh yeah we still need to find out who killed the body double huh"
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I meant Case 2 of AAI. Sorry if that wasn't clear

And like I said with Case 5, it was paced as well as it could be given the amount of material they had to cover
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I just finished the entire game, and I just want to say it was amazing, so much better than the first Investigations. I loved every bit of it. Every case was good. The dialogue was excellent. The music was ambient. The atmosphere was... well, Ace Attorney. And the character development! Beautiful! It surpassed all my expectations!

So, I don't know if this is the place to do it, but I just really want to thank everyone who made this possible. Really, I thank you all, who worked so hard just for the fans, from the bottom of my heart. You have no idea how much it meant to me to be able to play this game. My heart and soul is ringing with bliss and praise. To see Miles again... is the bread and butter that I live off, and the oxygen I breathe. It was worth every day of the 3 year wait. I cannot express in words the fullest extent of my happiness. Thank you so much! Thank you!!!
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So I ended up playing this game because I was a little curious to find out how that logic chess thing works (it wasn't as complicated as I thought it would be), and it was okay I guess? I liked the graphics and music, and if I had played this without knowing why some of my friends didn't like the first AAI, I might have liked it a bit more, as it has some of the same few problems the first game has (a lot of my friends really didn't like how Edgeworth was portrayed in AAI. They thought he should have been a lot smarter, and to be fair, it's really difficult to have someone as smart as Edgeworth be the main character where very few things surprise him). There were a few parts of the game I thought were extremely obvious, and Edgeworth reacted surprised about it, and in some cases, I thought it was obvious, but the game wouldn't let me continue because I was pointing something out at the wrong place or with the wrong evidence even though I knew exactly what was going on. The story overall wasn't too bad, but they reused a few older characters too much, and the gameplay was a disaster in a few places because of the dreaded trial and error, or there were places where I felt there were multiple viable options. Granted, the other Ace Attorney games have that element, but I haven't felt it was as bad as it was in this game.
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Jay wrote:
... (a lot of my friends really didn't like how Edgeworth was portrayed in AAI. They thought he should have been a lot smarter, and to be fair, it's really difficult to have someone as smart as Edgeworth be the main character where very few things surprise him). There were a few parts of the game I thought were extremely obvious, and Edgeworth reacted surprised about it, and in some cases, I thought it was obvious, but the game wouldn't let me continue because I was pointing something out at the wrong place or with the wrong evidence even though I knew exactly what was going on. The story overall wasn't too bad, but they reused a few older characters too much, and the gameplay was a disaster in a few places because of the dreaded trial and error, or there were places where I felt there were multiple viable options. Granted, the other Ace Attorney games have that element, but I haven't felt it was as bad as it was in this game.


Really? Personally, I disagree. I think Miles was portrayed as being very intelligent, but he's not omniscient. Even in the main games he was constantly being surprised by facts that Phoenix would bring to light, so I don't think this is uncharacteristic of him. (Some of his reactions, particularly in the first game, are less than elegant. Haha.) I find the Investigation games easier than the main series purely for the fact that Miles' train of thought will lead directly into the answer in almost every scenario. (But if they did more than that, it wouldn't be a game anymore.) You get that sense of competence from him compared to Phoenix, he's very methodical about his investigations. I was hardly ever lost about where to go or what evidence to present; there were only three testimonies in the entire game I got stuck on for maybe ten minutes. I was especially impressed with how he handled logic chess, because it really showcased his interrogative skills. We as the players didn't have to do very much, but that's because Miles did all the work himself, we just had to pick the obvious answers.
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The first AAI is bad, but I think my problem with Edgeworth's portrayal is more how monotonous he is, he's not emotionally involved in anything that happens (the closest you get is the first case) and then he'd point out the obvious waay too often. Another thing is regarding his characterization. Sometimes he's just straight up immature especially in some parts of case 2. In AAI2 I think his portrayal is great, but there's still some issues from AAI that persist but those didn't really have to do with the depiction of Edgeworth.

I think occassionally Edgeworth's writing is very bad, it is for everyone (it IS a Yamazaki-written game after all) but nothing was straight-up out of character for Edgeworth in it IMO.
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linkenski wrote:
The first AAI is bad, but I think my problem with Edgeworth's portrayal is more how monotonous he is, he's not emotionally involved in anything that happens (the closest you get is the first case) and then he'd point out the obvious waay too often. Another thing is regarding his characterization. Sometimes he's just straight up immature especially in some parts of case 2. In AAI2 I think his portrayal is great, but there's still some issues from AAI that persist but those didn't really have to do with the depiction of Edgeworth.

I think occassionally Edgeworth's writing is very bad, it is for everyone (it IS a Yamazaki-written game after all) but nothing was straight-up out of character for Edgeworth in it IMO.

This is just how I interpret his character, but... Miles is an incredibly stoic person. He has a difficult time projecting his emotions and knowing how to cope with them. In AAI2, we deal with this directly, with Miles admitting himself that Phoenix, Kay and Gumshoe were responsible for allowing him to finally open up his heart. Even then, he's not the type of person who usually outwardly shows his concern... he has to be in a very desperate position, such as what happened with Kay. I think the foundation for that kind of loyalty was in his character all along personally, I was just waiting for him to thaw out a bit more. That's where I think Yamazaki truly delivered. He might not be Takumi, but he doesn't do Miles any injustice. So in other words, I agree!
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Honestly, the last "difficult" AA game we've had was Trials and Tribulations. AJ-GK2 had hard parts but they still gave the answer away in a lot of places. One of the most clever contradictions in the game was pretty much spoiled
Spoiler: Case 4
(Hmm...the letter was in her left breast pocket and she was stabbed in the left breast...this is a vital clue)

Couldn't the statement have just said the letter was in her left breast pocket and leave it at that?


I think a big reason the GK games are easier is because of the fact that Edgeworth usually knows the answers before going into a testimony. A good example of this is in I-3 where Edgeworth knows there are three kidnappers and he has to contradict Lang's statement about two kidnappers. In the original trilogy, Phoenix would not know this and the player would have to guess that there was more than two kidnappers because more than two costumes were stolen

I'm still fine with the way Edgeworth is portrayed in the GK games to be honest (besides *that* moment in I-5). People seem to forget that Phoenix acted out of character all the time in T&T and AJ, yet that's never brought up

And I still love the GK series (my top 3 is GK2>PW:AA>GK)
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gallowsCalibrator wrote:
Jay wrote:
... (a lot of my friends really didn't like how Edgeworth was portrayed in AAI. They thought he should have been a lot smarter, and to be fair, it's really difficult to have someone as smart as Edgeworth be the main character where very few things surprise him). There were a few parts of the game I thought were extremely obvious, and Edgeworth reacted surprised about it, and in some cases, I thought it was obvious, but the game wouldn't let me continue because I was pointing something out at the wrong place or with the wrong evidence even though I knew exactly what was going on. The story overall wasn't too bad, but they reused a few older characters too much, and the gameplay was a disaster in a few places because of the dreaded trial and error, or there were places where I felt there were multiple viable options. Granted, the other Ace Attorney games have that element, but I haven't felt it was as bad as it was in this game.


Really? Personally, I disagree. I think Miles was portrayed as being very intelligent, but he's not omniscient. Even in the main games he was constantly being surprised by facts that Phoenix would bring to light, so I don't think this is uncharacteristic of him. (Some of his reactions, particularly in the first game, are less than elegant. Haha.) I find the Investigation games easier than the main series purely for the fact that Miles' train of thought will lead directly into the answer in almost every scenario. (But if they did more than that, it wouldn't be a game anymore.) You get that sense of competence from him compared to Phoenix, he's very methodical about his investigations. I was hardly ever lost about where to go or what evidence to present; there were only three testimonies in the entire game I got stuck on for maybe ten minutes. I was especially impressed with how he handled logic chess, because it really showcased his interrogative skills. We as the players didn't have to do very much, but that's because Miles did all the work himself, we just had to pick the obvious answers.


I don't mean to say that he's omniscient, but if a regular player like me can figure certain stuff out and he gets surprised at it, then I sometimes wonder if he's not really portrayed to be the smart guy we like to think of him as. I get he won't get the really weird twists; I didn't get those either, and I'm sure a lot of people didn't either, but I mean with just what the game is giving you (since Edgeworth has access to that stuff too; I'm not talking about after someone else reveals something he and the player don't already know), you would think he might figure some stuff out. Maybe he was a little better at it this time around, but I think most of my friends didn't like Kay from AAI and her interaction with Edgeworth, and that's possibly where most of their dislike for Edgeworth's personality in AAI comes from. Since she comes back in AAI2, most of them were put off from playing it. I personally don't care for her, but I wouldn't say she was the best choice of side kick for Edgeworth.
In the second game, they don't give you the obvious hints until after you fail the first try, and even then I don't find some of them so obvious. In some cases, it was just simply because I considered several different possibilities, and couldn't decide on which item to pick, or I knew exactly what was going on, but didn't pick the right item even though they were related. I wonder if maybe they just got away with that because the meter in this game takes more hits before you game over. I didn't have a problem with logic chess; it was actually easier than I thought it would be, and it didn't really have that much to do with chess in the first place beyond symbolism.

JesusMonroe wrote:
I think a big reason the GK games are easier is because of the fact that Edgeworth usually knows the answers before going into a testimony. A good example of this is in I-3 where Edgeworth knows there are three kidnappers and he has to contradict Lang's statement about two kidnappers. In the original trilogy, Phoenix would not know this and the player would have to guess that there was more than two kidnappers because more than two costumes were stolen


I think that's the part that got a lot of people gameplay wise. Maybe storywise Edgeworth got that himself, but you as the player have to get it first to advance beyond that point. It's those kinds of moments that make the gameplay disastrous at times. Connecting those points in the Logic section was obscure, and that's the kind of stuff that ruined it for some people.
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Jay wrote:
I don't mean to say that he's omniscient, but if a regular player like me can figure certain stuff out and he gets surprised at it, then I sometimes wonder if he's not really portrayed to be the smart guy we like to think of him as. I get he won't get the really weird twists; I didn't get those either, and I'm sure a lot of people didn't either, but I mean with just what the game is giving you (since Edgeworth has access to that stuff too; I'm not talking about after someone else reveals something he and the player don't already know), you would think he might figure some stuff out. Maybe he was a little better at it this time around, but I think most of my friends didn't like Kay from AAI and her interaction with Edgeworth, and that's possibly where most of their dislike for Edgeworth's personality in AAI comes from. Since she comes back in AAI2, most of them were put off from playing it. I personally don't care for her, but I wouldn't say she was the best choice of side kick for Edgeworth.
In the second game, they don't give you the obvious hints until after you fail the first try, and even then I don't find some of them so obvious. In some cases, it was just simply because I considered several different possibilities, and couldn't decide on which item to pick, or I knew exactly what was going on, but didn't pick the right item even though they were related. I wonder if maybe they just got away with that because the meter in this game takes more hits before you game over. I didn't have a problem with logic chess; it was actually easier than I thought it would be, and it didn't really have that much to do with chess in the first place beyond symbolism.


Well, from my experiences, he did figure out things well ahead of time. My logic was often bouncing off of his during the course of the game -- he'd say something related to a piece of evidence or testimony, and it'd click in my head automatically. All I had to do to figure which statement to present evidence on was read into what he'd say. This made the game not very difficult to me at all, for the same reasons JesusMonroe stated. You also need to realize that we, the players, are at an advantage because of the perspective we view everything from, and that Miles is responsible for all the notes and profiling we work with, and that unlike him we can stall on testimonies and take as much as time as we need to figure out the contradiction. While we might need to rely on his dialogue for assistance he's the one who needs to come up with those thoughts initially, and he's still usually mentally two steps ahead of everyone involved. I don't think you're giving him enough credit, but... this is just my opinion.

Oh, JesusMonroe, I was just wondering which part of I-5 you're referring to?
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gallowsCalibrator wrote:
Oh, JesusMonroe, I was just wondering which part of I-5 you're referring to?

For the record, I actually think Turnabout Ablaze is a better case than most people give it credit for. I also think that AAI is a better game than most people give it credit for (and I think Yamazaki is a pretty fantastic writer in his own right

But this is by far one of the most enraging moments in the entire series for me:
http://youtu.be/C92EcdVoBdY?t=17m26s

I naturally picked the other option and was forced to pick the "right" one, even though the "right" choice showed Von Karma grinning sadistically as Edgeworth was considering it

It might seem like a small thing but Ablaze was a top 3 case for me until that moment. Then, it get knocked down several spots
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm still fine with the way Edgeworth is portrayed in the GK games to be honest.

I never liked it, but I think I said enough in Kay's thread already about that =P Particularly Turnabout Reminiscence, though... Basically this.

Which moment in I-5 do you mean though?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
gallowsCalibrator wrote:
Oh, JesusMonroe, I was just wondering which part of I-5 you're referring to?

For the record, I actually think Turnabout Ablaze is a better case than most people give it credit for. I also think that AAI is a better game than most people give it credit for (and I think Yamazaki is a pretty fantastic writer in his own right

But this is by far one of the most enraging moments in the entire series for me:
http://youtu.be/C92EcdVoBdY?t=17m26s

I naturally picked the other option and was forced to pick the "right" one, even though the "right" choice showed Von Karma grinning sadistically as Edgeworth was considering it

It might seem like a small thing but Ablaze was a top 3 case for me until that moment. Then, it get knocked down several spots

I agree. I don't think any game in the AA series is bad though. I didn't rate as highly as the main trilogy, and AAI2 is much better in every way, but I still enjoyed it. (Anything heavily featuring Miles gets bonus points, what can I say?) Oh, and I actually liked the ending for AAI better than the ending for AAI2, funnily enough... They're both excellent, but the first left me with fuzzy feelings in my stomach for an hour.

I understand why that would make you upset. It's a scene that seems to buy into von Karma's philosophy that the 'ends justify the means' ... (Gee, doesn't that bring AA5 to mind.) I can't remember if I felt similarly distasteful of it at the time, but any reminder of von Karma puts me on edge. Miles did do a few dubiously legal things in AAI2 as well... although he was correct, otherwise they would have never found the evidence they needed. That's where some moral dilemmas come into play.

Edit: I can understand why some people would dislike Miles' dynamic with Kay, but I really love it. Seeing his fatherly, protective side come out over her makes me smile like a giddy moron.
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Pretty much my thoughts. People always say that GK has terrible characters, but I loved Edgeworth's development in the games, I think Gumshoe is just as great (I don't think he's been flanderised like others seem to), Franziska has improved ten-fold in these games (I went from not caring much about her to loving her), Kay, Lang, Badd, Yew, Yumihiko, and Sota are some of my favorite characters in the entire series. Plus, I think Rhoda, Cammy, Paups, Palaeno, Hayami, Naito, Gregory, Tenkai, and Aizawa are pretty memorable side characters (and Mikagami is pretty great as well). I have very few complaints. In the end, I just have more fun playing GK than other games in the series and they entertain me more. That's about it
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gallowsCalibrator wrote:
Jay wrote:
I don't mean to say that he's omniscient, but if a regular player like me can figure certain stuff out and he gets surprised at it, then I sometimes wonder if he's not really portrayed to be the smart guy we like to think of him as. I get he won't get the really weird twists; I didn't get those either, and I'm sure a lot of people didn't either, but I mean with just what the game is giving you (since Edgeworth has access to that stuff too; I'm not talking about after someone else reveals something he and the player don't already know), you would think he might figure some stuff out. Maybe he was a little better at it this time around, but I think most of my friends didn't like Kay from AAI and her interaction with Edgeworth, and that's possibly where most of their dislike for Edgeworth's personality in AAI comes from. Since she comes back in AAI2, most of them were put off from playing it. I personally don't care for her, but I wouldn't say she was the best choice of side kick for Edgeworth.
In the second game, they don't give you the obvious hints until after you fail the first try, and even then I don't find some of them so obvious. In some cases, it was just simply because I considered several different possibilities, and couldn't decide on which item to pick, or I knew exactly what was going on, but didn't pick the right item even though they were related. I wonder if maybe they just got away with that because the meter in this game takes more hits before you game over. I didn't have a problem with logic chess; it was actually easier than I thought it would be, and it didn't really have that much to do with chess in the first place beyond symbolism.


Well, from my experiences, he did figure out things well ahead of time. My logic was often bouncing off of his during the course of the game -- he'd say something related to a piece of evidence or testimony, and it'd click in my head automatically. All I had to do to figure which statement to present evidence on was read into what he'd say. This made the game not very difficult to me at all, for the same reasons JesusMonroe stated. You also need to realize that we, the players, are at an advantage because of the perspective we view everything from, and that Miles is responsible for all the notes and profiling we work with, and that unlike him we can stall on testimonies and take as much as time as we need to figure out the contradiction. While we might need to rely on his dialogue for assistance he's the one who needs to come up with those thoughts initially, and he's still usually mentally two steps ahead of everyone involved. I don't think you're giving him enough credit, but... this is just my opinion.

Oh, JesusMonroe, I was just wondering which part of I-5 you're referring to?


Well no, I don't have a problem with Edgeworth figuring stuff out and expecting the game to be easier because his monologues throw more hints at you than any case where the main character is Phoenix, but I felt it didn't come out right because of the mechanics of the game or because of the wording. It still managed to be ambiguous in a few places, or as I said, I knew what Edgeworth was trying to get at, but the game didn't like my answer. The problem is in finding the right place to show evidence and showing the "right" evidence. Sometimes I feel the mechanics of the game don't respect the ambiguous choices for certain evidences because they can be related, but only one of them is considered by the game to be the correct one. I guess it's kind of like the difference between a multiple choice test and a short answer test--in the former, you're only given a few options, and only one of them is correct, but you can be tripped up by poor wording, two choices that are too similar or trick questions, and in the latter, you're allowed to explain exactly what you mean unambiguously. Of course I'm not about to suggest that they completely change the formatting of the game, but I feel they did it better in the mainstream series.

Don't get me wrong; I don't think any of the AA games are bad; I was just more disappointed at the gameplay in this game than I was with any of the other games.
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Can you give an example of picking the "right" piece of evidence that the game doesn't consider "right" because there's a more correct choice? I thought that was a more prevalent problem in GS3 and 4
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Well, I wouldn't say it's more "correct" but I thought it would be as acceptable.

Spoiler: case specific spoilers
Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact wording of the cross examination where it happened, but it was the one where you have to cross examine Simon, and he gives you 2x penalty. I think I recall pressing on the second to last statement, and there were plenty of hints that suggested to me that you should show evidence for that one. It was the one where you have to present the tape recorder to prove that his bugged message was recorded, and I knew that all along. However, the correct location where you have to present the evidence is the last statement.

Or the time where you have to present the liquid analysis in the fourth case as the "last piece of evidence that hasn't been examined". It was rather vague.

And there was this part in the first case where you had to deduce something from the second security plan right after you find it, and it turns out you had to compare it with the first security plan, but they were so different that you could press on it anywhere.


There's probably more, but I don't really remember them at the moment.
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Spoiler:
The second to last statement isn't really a contradiction, though. He's just informing you that "it can be considered instigation if I said the word 'kill'". The next statement says, "There's no way for you to prove that." I think it's pretty obvious that's the one you're supposed to prove it on

The next one you're thinking of the third case. It says in the court record that the results haven't returned yet. This doesn't really follow your examples, though, as there's no other piece of evidence it can be

The main point of the security plan is the fact that Naito and Tojiro switched places. You're supposed to make a deduction from the plans and clicking anywhere else is missing the bigger picture
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler:
The second to last statement isn't really a contradiction, though. He's just informing you that "it can be considered instigation if I said the word 'kill'". The next statement says, "There's no way for you to prove that." I think it's pretty obvious that's the one you're supposed to prove it on

The next one you're thinking of the third case. It says in the court record that the results haven't returned yet. This doesn't really follow your examples, though, as there's no other piece of evidence it can be

The main point of the security plan is the fact that Naito and Tojiro switched places. You're supposed to make a deduction from the plans and clicking anywhere else is missing the bigger picture


Spoiler:
If you based that off of just what the statement says, and not on pressing it, then ja maybe, but I was convinced it was the second to last one because of something they said after pressing the second to last one. I think it was one of Edgeworth's monologues.

I don't remember seeing that. Is this in the English fan translation or the Japanese one?

But there was so much different between both plans that it could have been anything really.

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I can see your point, Jay, when you phrase it like that. I would encounter problems like that during the original games all the time. I still agree with JesusMonroe though... AAI2 was much more clear about what you were supposed to do. Phoenix was not as ... organized in his thoughts as Miles tends to be. I just disagree with the sentiment that Miles came off as being less intelligent than he should be; that's what my posts were about.
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Jay wrote:
Spoiler:
If you based that off of just what the statement says, and not on pressing it, then ja maybe, but I was convinced it was the second to last one because of something they said after pressing the second to last one. I think it was one of Edgeworth's monologues.

I don't remember seeing that. Is this in the English fan translation or the Japanese one?

But there was so much different between both plans that it could have been anything really.

Spoiler:
Yes, but by just looking at the testimony alone, it's definitely more clear that you're supposed to be presenting evidence on the last statement. His third statement didn't say, "I never said the word kill." His last statement basically said, "You can't prove I said that"

Now I'm confused? What exactly are you talking about?

Yes, but the essential part is the fact that they switched places. The button isn't called "deduce" for nothing
http://i.gyazo.com/5b5c2d47732a1c8e19375b1c111c9f34.png
http://i.gyazo.com/9b880c31d007d16858062a2e5c270046.png

It's just different instructions. It can't be "anything really." The only relevant part of the plan that changes is the fact that the bodyguards switch places

This game is definitely very clear on what you're supposed to present. Remember AJ when it only let you present one pair of panties even though you were accusing Stickler of being a panty thief? Remember in the same case when you can't present the slippers with Alita's toe print as evidence that she's connected to the Meratkis clinic? Remember (and I'm betting every single player made this mistake) presenting the diamond as Dahlia's motive for killing Valerie when it was supposed to be the note? Remember how you can't present anything but the tape to De Killer in JFA when the recording software would prove the same point? These are actual issues

Besides, the game does accept multiple pieces of evidence on several occasions
Re: Thoughts on AAI2 (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Heat Guy J

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JesusMonroe wrote:
Jay wrote:
Spoiler:
If you based that off of just what the statement says, and not on pressing it, then ja maybe, but I was convinced it was the second to last one because of something they said after pressing the second to last one. I think it was one of Edgeworth's monologues.

I don't remember seeing that. Is this in the English fan translation or the Japanese one?

But there was so much different between both plans that it could have been anything really.

Spoiler:
Yes, but by just looking at the testimony alone, it's definitely more clear that you're supposed to be presenting evidence on the last statement. His third statement didn't say, "I never said the word kill." His last statement basically said, "You can't prove I said that"

Now I'm confused? What exactly are you talking about?

Yes, but the essential part is the fact that they switched places. The button isn't called "deduce" for nothing
http://i.gyazo.com/5b5c2d47732a1c8e19375b1c111c9f34.png
http://i.gyazo.com/9b880c31d007d16858062a2e5c270046.png

It's just different instructions. It can't be "anything really." The only relevant part of the plan that changes is the fact that the bodyguards switch places

This game is definitely very clear on what you're supposed to present. Remember AJ when it only let you present one pair of panties even though you were accusing Stickler of being a panty thief? Remember in the same case when you can't present the slippers with Alita's toe print as evidence that she's connected to the Meratkis clinic? Remember (and I'm betting every single player made this mistake) presenting the diamond as Dahlia's motive for killing Valerie when it was supposed to be the note? Remember how you can't present anything but the tape to De Killer in JFA when the recording software would prove the same point? These are actual issues

Besides, the game does accept multiple pieces of evidence on several occasions


Spoiler:
Well, I guess I didn't put that much weight on his testimony as I did on what information you get when you press those statements. I don't see how that makes it any less ambiguous though.

Well you said the "results haven't returned yet" - did you see this while playing the original game in Japanese, or was it in the translation as well? Because I don't remember seeing it.

And how did you figure out that it was relevant before having played the game?


I'm not complaining that this game doesn't accept multiple evidences at all; maybe it does elsewhere, but of the few places where I thought they would be relevant, the game didn't like my answer.
Pauca sed matura.

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