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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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JesusMonroe wrote:
It was actually a decent subversion cause during John's testimony, Confrontation ~ Presto played, which only plays if the person you're talking to is guilty. This was the only time that wasn't the case.

Actually, that happened several times in this game. For example, in case 5, when Dogen appears and talks about what happened 18 years ago, and I remember it also happening in case 2.
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It also happened during von Karma's argument in Case 3
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But they were guilty. Von Karma is talking about the investigation and he's guilty of forging evidence and Dogen is talking about SS-5 in which he killed the President. In Case 2, the prisoner is guilty of trying to escape from prison and knocking out Naito, which he's guilty of. John is the only one who testifies about something he isn't guilty of (killing the body double)
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Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

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Just finished the case, and man, what a ride! Sure, there were a couple of weak points, but I still enjoyed the case very much.

Pros:
Mastermind Simon Keyes is a very different kind of bad guy than what we've dealt with in the past. If it wasn't for his DeKiller contract and dropping the balloon on Fake!Huang, he technically wouldn't have actually murdered anyone, just played everyone else as pawns in the grand chess match that is AAI2. Gotta love those psychotic animations he has too.

Gumshoe gets to look forward to his next salary assessment for a change.

Like a previous comment said, playing this game is like playing through all the Fey cases of the previous games in one seating with no breaks. Everything ties together in the end, but unlike AAI, there's more of an emotional stake involved here. I actually care about what's happening to the characters. (Except Lotta, but meh.)

Loved Dogen. He was a pretty cool character, and it's kind of sad that he's really the only friend Simon has now. At any rate, as far as assassins go, he's a much better human being than DeKiller. You kind of get the sense that he wants to atone for his crimes and that's why he's content to remain in prison for the most part.

For what I saw of him, I liked the real president Huang. He didn't even beg for his life from the assassin who came to kill him. He just asked if he could be allowed to see his son for the first time before he died. It was a very sad scene (in a good way).

Cons:
How does one manage to aim a balloon to land on top of someone? You can't control the wind like that. Even if you could, I highly doubt Fake!Huang would have only shot once and NOT run away from something that was about to fall on top of him. (My headcanon officially says Simon threw Kay on top of Fake!Huang, she rolled to the side, and he was just stunned enough not to dodge the fracking balloon).

Video should have caught that Fake!Huang was being lowered by rope. It's not a snapshot, it's a stinking video. We even got a full video in case 2. The fact that a video only produced two usable frames is laughable at best.

Hated Courtney's panic animation. Easily the most awkward animation I've seen in the series. She looks like she has some horrible toothache or something.

Phoenix is implied but never name-dropped for some idiotic reason.

I don't understand what Simon had against Jill Crane. Unless he saw her as a means to an end or something for getting revenge against Blaise. But that's an awfully convoluted plot even for a mastermind of his caliber. It was like: Step 1: Kidnap Kay so Edgeworth gets involved. Step 2: Get Blaise to kill Jill. Step 3: Hope that Edgeworth correctly deduces that Blaise was the one that killed Jill. Step 4: Hope that Blaise doesn't use his position in the PIC to somehow screw over this plan by getting rid of vital evidence, forging evidence, forcing Edgeworth out of the game, etc... Step 5: ????????? Step 6: Profit.

----------

Another moment that struck me as interesting but didn't fit into either category.

Courtney: "John is my son"
Me: *looks at profiles, sees Courtney is 26...*
Me: *looks at John's profile. He's 13...*
Me: ô_ō

Then later...

Courtney: "He's adopted."
Me: "Oh, okay."

It does raise the question of how old Amy was at the time though.
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Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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JesusMonroe wrote:
But they were guilty. Von Karma is talking about the investigation and he's guilty of forging evidence and Dogen is talking about SS-5 in which he killed the President. In Case 2, the prisoner is guilty of trying to escape from prison and knocking out Naito, which he's guilty of. John is the only one who testifies about something he isn't guilty of (killing the body double)

Oh. I was talking about being guilty of the murder in the case. In AAI, the "Presto" theme only played at the final confrontation with the killer. Yet in AAI2, there are points where the theme plays even when the person talking is not the killer.
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Now thay you mention vK, when I spoiled myself that it wasn't him who forged evidence, I thought this game will retcon bits of his personality and portray him as less evil.

...Needless to say, I changed my mind when I actually saw him in action... Poor Tenkai.
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TheDoctor, all we know is that one bullet the balloon. The body double could've fired more than one shot. Plus, there's a cold air button on the balloon if you examine it, so it's possible the balloon lowered faster than the double anticipated. Also keep in mind that the double thought Simon was a benevolent witness; he didn't know he was out to kill him

Also, Simon sent two letters; one to Blaise and one to Crane. It was possible that one scenario in his plan was Crane killing Blaise. He not brought Kay to the roof if it turned out otherwise
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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That Courney and John age thing freaked me out, I mean noone was asking any questions :eh?:

I'm still confused about the video, you get to the President in the zoom-up. Is that him being brought down by the rope?
How did Simon get the body under the moozilla before John noticed?
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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
That Courney and John age thing freaked me out, I mean noone was asking any questions :eh?:

I'm still confused about the video, you get to the President in the zoom-up. Is that him being brought down by the rope?
How did Simon get the body under the moozilla before John noticed?

It was the body being lowered by rope

He put it next to the Moozilla head. Not under it. John was off the set at that time
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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I would actually enjoyed this case a lot more if I hadn't spoiled myself that Simon was a bad guy while searching ost for this game :C

Also am I the only one who hates that they just HAD to make Patricia Roland evil? I really could get why she would murder Knightley, she was fearing Dogen's henchmen killed her family but theeeeeeen they had to make Patricia give traumatic experiences to Simon Keyes, Assist on a murder, AAAAAND acting like a total bitch in her trial.

ALSO COURTNEY'S AWKWARD SPRITE ;_;
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RPGamerX wrote:
I would actually enjoyed this case a lot more if I hadn't spoiled myself that Simon was a bad guy while searching ost for this game :C

Also am I the only one who hates that they just HAD to make Patricia Roland evil? I really could get why she would murder Knightley, she was fearing Dogen's henchmen killed her family but theeeeeeen they had to make Patricia give traumatic experiences to Simon Keyes, Assist on a murder, AAAAAND acting like a total bitch in her trial.

ALSO COURTNEY'S AWKWARD SPRITE ;_;

I loved Roland's motive in Case 2 so I was also a little disappointed, but it does make sense and adds more flavor to the game. We realize that she's not as "innocent" as we were led to believe and Dogen wanted to kill her (and family) because she tried to kill him. Don't get me wrong, Dogen is still an evil bastard

Also, she could still be good. It's kind of clear that she wasn't as evil as Blaise or the body double. She could've cooperated with the two of them in the President's assassination because she needed money for her family. When she became the Warden, she put that life behind her and it came back to haunt her in the form of Dogen
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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RPGamerX wrote:
I would actually enjoyed this case a lot more if I hadn't spoiled myself that Simon was a bad guy while searching ost for this game :C

Also am I the only one who hates that they just HAD to make Patricia Roland evil? I really could get why she would murder Knightley, she was fearing Dogen's henchmen killed her family but theeeeeeen they had to make Patricia give traumatic experiences to Simon Keyes, Assist on a murder, AAAAAND acting like a total bitch in her trial.

ALSO COURTNEY'S AWKWARD SPRITE ;_;

You mean this?
Spoiler:
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It just looks weird to me.
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Ugh, that one annoyed me so much.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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I read you. It just looks very unnatural, both her hands, her face not really fitting somehow, and how her shoulders go *huff-huff* up and down. It looks awkward
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Actually, the sprite itself doesn't look half bad, but... Are these shoulders really exactly like that in-game? Up and down?
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In the game the sprite itself moved on the screen iirc.
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Uh, then that does make sense, at least. That kind of thing is called heavy breathing.
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But it's only her shoulders that are moving. At least her arms should move as well since they're like, connected to the shoulders.
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I think given the fact that the sprite is moving, it's somewhat similar to Lang's or Calisto's laugh here on the site. It's stillness is negated by sprites movement by itself.

...Still might be awkward tho.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Major
How was the President planning to get off with killing Justine? There were cameras on the entrance of the roof
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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler: Major
How was the President planning to get off with killing Justine? There were cameras on the entrance of the roof

Spoiler:
Justine wasn't even aware of the rooftop cameras, and she worked in the building. The President probably didn't know
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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler: Major
How was the President planning to get off with killing Justine? There were cameras on the entrance of the roof


Spoiler:
I think President wasn't going to kill her at roof.
Maybe later he would have done so or maybe hired an assassin.

[Edgeworth]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
...What happened between you
and the President up on the roof?
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Nothing...
We merely spoke for a few
minutes.
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Once our business was done,
I headed straight home. I took
the elevator back down alone.
└────────────────────────────┘
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

I can't be the only one with this ship?

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mrichston wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler: Major
How was the President planning to get off with killing Justine? There were cameras on the entrance of the roof


Spoiler:
I think President wasn't going to kill her at roof.
Maybe later he would have done so or maybe hired an assassin.

[Edgeworth]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
...What happened between you
and the President up on the roof?
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Nothing...
We merely spoke for a few
minutes.
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Once our business was done,
I headed straight home. I took
the elevator back down alone.
└────────────────────────────┘


Spoiler:
Yeah but the Double had a gun on him, and moved her out of the roof because of Simon showing up
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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
mrichston wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler: Major
How was the President planning to get off with killing Justine? There were cameras on the entrance of the roof


Spoiler:
I think President wasn't going to kill her at roof.
Maybe later he would have done so or maybe hired an assassin.

[Edgeworth]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
...What happened between you
and the President up on the roof?
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Nothing...
We merely spoke for a few
minutes.
└────────────────────────────┘

[Justine Courtney]
┌────────1─────────2─────────┐
Once our business was done,
I headed straight home. I took
the elevator back down alone.
└────────────────────────────┘


Spoiler:
Yeah but the Double had a gun on him, and moved her out of the roof because of Simon showing up


Spoiler:
I think only camera there was at entrance of elevator.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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OBJECTION.I object that is objectionable

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How did Edgeworth deduce simon was the guy behind everything from the chess conrespondence I mean did knightly and dogen not know there was a middleman and how would either of them not know who it is :S
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The correspondence letters were typed but Dogen needed braille to read and write, so there had to be middleman translating Dogen's braille to text for Knightley to read and Knightley's text to braille for Dogen to read. So, the Mastermind had to know Dogen and Knightley. Souta was Knightley's best friend and they already deduced Knightley was PH's son, so the Mastermind had to be the friend sitting in the car with him who Dogen later met
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OBJECTION.I object that is objectionable

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JesusMonroe wrote:
The correspondence letters were typed but Dogen needed braille to read and write, so there had to be middleman translating Dogen's braille to text for Knightley to read and Knightley's text to braille for Dogen to read. So, the Mastermind had to know Dogen and Knightley. Souta was Knightley's best friend and they already deduced Knightley was PH's son, so the Mastermind had to be the friend sitting in the car with him who Dogen later met



That makes sense thanks :)
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What I found surprising is that it was brought up so suddenly in Case 5 and no one thought twice about it during the Case 2 itself and just went "Oh, I guess they played chess together".
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Am I the only one who went "HOLY SHIT" when Edgeworth deduced who it was?
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If it only wasn't for the fact that the setup for the question about who it was had a Dual Destinies level of obviousness...
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That kind of dialogue should never appear and if it does, it should ONLY appear if you get the killer wrong the first time
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Actually, it totally should have appeared.

After you submit your answer, that is, instead of before.
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Spoiler:
Well for one thing yeah, I played the patch and it was a magnificent AA game, probably my fav of them all in a certain way; andhere's one thing I mean to point out.
There were many people who did wrong in both the IS-7 Incident and the SS-5, but it's interesting how if it weren't for Pierre Hoquet's grred for money, & betrayal to Dane G., then none of these cases would have happened. It shows how a simple mistake can trigger so much. You could always still feel bad for Simon Keyes, as I love it how he was hurt by killers that you as Edgey actually go through to convict, and then face him and tlel him revenge isn't the answer (thoughas Edgey said, he was a victim of hatred).

There are so manygreat highlightsof this, including more development for Kay; that brings naotehr point, Edgey really finished his 'character development' by the end of the 1st AAI games, choosing to no longer follow the von Karma path. In this game, hee goes through everything with the full courage and dedication of a prosecutor, and no, that did not ruin it. Heck, he still had an ol' trusty Yatagarsu Badge with him if he didn't have hsi prosecutors!

Well letme tell say, there were so many great highlights to this game, even Ema Skye appearing to the end unseriously (she made things even more fun, as did all those cameos, oh gee I can't stop talking about all these details), and yeah, it was a GREAT game! So there's some of my feedback!

I finished the last case about month ago now, but it's still been wrapping my mind! I don't want it to end, but I still wanted to kick Patrica's, then Dane's, Blaise, and lastly Simon's ass before I was throgh with it so.. whatcan ya do, life?

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Last edited by Honey Pie on Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Case 5 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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SS-5 would've still happened if Pierre Hoquet was greedy. In fact, Dogen would've died as well
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I suspected since case 3 that Pierre was being blackmailed by someone or some other reason to want so much money lol; but I suppose SS-5 would've still happened yeah, just that instead of Dogen being a victim of death, Simon was a victim of a dreaded life!
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Shelly de Killer vs. Sirhan Dogen.

...

'Nuff said.
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I just wandered onto this thread, and I was rather surprised by the fact that I actually agree with a lot of the comments on here, since I got the impression that I criticized this case too much. I felt pretty mixed about the final case in the end, and actually liked the 4th case more. The 4th case just had so much emotion in it, and I was actually pretty moved by Edgeworth's actions in it, so to me the final case felt weak by comparison. The 5th case just got too out of hand for me to enjoy. I don't know how much of this is due to the fan translated nature of the game, but everything just got too confusing and coincidental, even for an AA game. I mean really, I had to mull it over for a solid week to really understand what happened and although I enjoyed the cameos, it ended up making it feel like a lot of the characters were there for no reason. On the bright side, I loved the twist with the antagonist, I didn't see it coming at all and had quite the freak out over it, even if they didn't keep him in his really interesting chess master role. I just really wish the case had managed to remain sane enough that it didn't turn into a giant whirling maelstrom of insanity because I would have liked it so much more then.

Will's hood really bothers me, just look at it! It's so weird looking...
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Honestly, I thought 2-3, 3-3, 3-5, and I-5 were way more complex and convoluted. This case didn't really bother me in that aspect
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That scene where they were getting Blaise in court, god that's one of my all time favorite Ace Attorney moments now. :D
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Honestly, I thought 2-3, 3-3, 3-5, and I-5 were way more complex and convoluted. This case didn't really bother me in that aspect


I think the big difference is that you have two cases with each their own set of characters, their motives and their chain of events tied into another case that in itself has its own chain of events. It just feels overly complex. The complexity of most other cases can be boiled down to the case at hand being a bit complex; maybe there is some backstory that ties into it, but it's not like you have to remember every bit of the backstory as if it's a case in and of itself.

Aside from I-5 I felt like those other cases you mentioned weren't as heavy-handed as I2-5 was though. Maybe on a fact-sheet they look similar, but just playing through each of them I felt like maybe I-5 and I2-5 are too heavy on purely exposititory writing, and it felt like there was too many crazy twists and turns revealed too close to one another and too many moments where characters would just spewl out all the details in the most straightforward way possible, and I thought the case got monotonous because of it.
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