Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Kav wrote:
Apollo felt just as developed in AA4 as Athena currently does in AA5.
Wat.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
Kav wrote:
Apollo felt just as developed in AA4 as Athena currently does in AA5.
Wat.
I agree with most of what was mentioned by Kav, but that bit is just Bollocks (in my [very] humble opinion).
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
Spoiler: Athena's character and role
You forgot the fact that she has one-of-a-kind items and knows karate!
Kav wrote:
Second of all, you could argue Apollo had the exact same impact to the series when they made him the main character of AA4. He also had "special powers" but apparently only Athena's are bad. What about Maya channeling the deceased? Or the magatama? Those are "special powers" too. It's not fair to be critical of Athena's abilities when everyone else has them too.
The problem isn't that she has magic powers.
The problem is that she has magic powers AND unique items AND is pretty/adored by all AND has two degrees by the time most people graduate high school. The problem isn't that she has one particular trait, but that she has EVERY trait, so arguing "Character X also has a magic power!" or "Character Y became a lawyer even younger than her!" doesn't matter, because the issue isn't any one individual trait.
I also feel like Athena's magic powers are much less developed/explained than any magic powers. It feels like she just got random magic powers out of nowhere just because she's a special snowflake.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Myeh, I still think it's not so much that she has "too much" going on about her. It's that Athena hasn't had enough time to better organize her developments. She gets introduced in this game and then has everything piled on with little to no explanation. The plot would likely drag on if they were expanded upon any further. It seems like the amount of character development you'd expect from a recurring character, not a new one. If everything we knew about Phoenix was squished into one game, how do you think people would think of him? "Gary Stu all the way."
Poor Athy, having to be so much in so little time. It's a recurring problem of over-creation.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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But, like others have said, she's just EVERYWHERE. She develops WAY too much for a first game. Leaving all the others in the dust.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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She's been explored fully... time to give us something else Capcom, or give Trucy an actual role in the next game
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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I saw it not that he wanted more to get Athena declared innocent than to save Trucy, but that he wanted to help both. He wanted to get the perfect outcome, as he does in every other case in the series. Sure, he could have just let Athena take the blame for her mother's murder to appease Aura and save the hostages, thus achieving the lesser evil, but have we ever known him to accept such a compromise in the past? His reaction was entirely in keeping with his character.
Edit: Replaced a stray exclamation mark with the intended full stop. Don't want to appear too enthusiastic, *shudder*.
Last edited by xGiovanni on Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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xGiovanni wrote:
I've seen the argument that Phoenix was more concerned about saving Athena than Trucy in 5-5 made a few times! but that doesn't really sit right with me.
I saw it not that he wanted more to get Athena declared innocent than to save Trucy, but that he wanted to help both. He wanted to get the perfect outcome, as he does in every other case in the series. Sure, he could have just let Athena take the blame for her mother's murder to appease Aura and save the hostages, thus achieving the lesser evil, but have we ever known him to accept such a compromise in the past? His reaction was entirely in keeping with his character.
I saw it not that he wanted more to get Athena declared innocent than to save Trucy, but that he wanted to help both. He wanted to get the perfect outcome, as he does in every other case in the series. Sure, he could have just let Athena take the blame for her mother's murder to appease Aura and save the hostages, thus achieving the lesser evil, but have we ever known him to accept such a compromise in the past? His reaction was entirely in keeping with his character.
I don't know about you, but I repeatedly forgot Trucy had been kidnapped, while Phoenix kept going on about saving Athena who was right in front of us.
When Maya was kidnapped, he almost passed out. It's almost as if he has grown accostumed to all the crap that keeps happening to him and his loved ones.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Sits right with me. I didn't like Trucy even before she became a walking punchline.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
xGiovanni wrote:
I've seen the argument that Phoenix was more concerned about saving Athena than Trucy in 5-5 made a few times! but that doesn't really sit right with me.
I saw it not that he wanted more to get Athena declared innocent than to save Trucy, but that he wanted to help both. He wanted to get the perfect outcome, as he does in every other case in the series. Sure, he could have just let Athena take the blame for her mother's murder to appease Aura and save the hostages, thus achieving the lesser evil, but have we ever known him to accept such a compromise in the past? His reaction was entirely in keeping with his character.
I saw it not that he wanted more to get Athena declared innocent than to save Trucy, but that he wanted to help both. He wanted to get the perfect outcome, as he does in every other case in the series. Sure, he could have just let Athena take the blame for her mother's murder to appease Aura and save the hostages, thus achieving the lesser evil, but have we ever known him to accept such a compromise in the past? His reaction was entirely in keeping with his character.
I don't know about you, but I repeatedly forgot Trucy had been kidnapped, while Phoenix kept going on about saving Athena who was right in front of us.
When Maya was kidnapped, he almost passed out. It's almost as if he has grown accostumed to all the crap that keeps happening to him and his loved ones.
I'll have to agree here I forgot about Trucy until she was mentioned back at the end.
Phoenix has gone trough so much, I can't even decide if his the luckiest or unluckiest person I've ever seen for pulling himself out of all the horrid situations he gets put into.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
Kav wrote:
Apollo felt just as developed in AA4 as Athena currently does in AA5.
Wat.
I second the major wat behind this. Apollo was essentially a blank slate at the end of AJ, and the one thing you could argue against Athena is that she has too much personality. She's kind of an over emotional goof ball who tries to act seriously but inevitably ends up doing something crazy simply because it's the kind of person she is. I thought she was a wonderful addition to the game along with making Apollo into a real character, and how the dynamic between the three lawyers plays out in the future is something I'm really looking forward to in future titles.
======
As for Athena taking the spotlight away from Phoenix/Apollo...
The main character of the game not getting the most character development is by no means anything new in the Ace Attorney series. Phoenix Wright starred in the first three games, which had Miles Edgeworth, Miles Edgeworth/the Fey Family, and a combination of Godot and the Fey Family undergoing the most character development respectively. Then we had Apollo Justice, in which the person undergoing the most character development was Phoenix Wright. The first Investigations game probably lends its title to Kay Faraday, and GK2 is arguably the only game in the series where the main character is the one undergoing the most character development.
Athena took up most of the spotlight in terms of character development because she needed to. Phoenix is already a fully fleshed out character, mostly from Apollo Justice, and the game takes a few opportunities to show how he's developed between AJ and DD, but that's all it needs. Phoenix is at a state in his career where a major character development wouldn't make sense; he's already undergone so much and matured to a point where anything else would just be reversing direction (similar to what Raiden undergoes at parts of MGR).
Apollo took a good amount of the character development, but not as much as Athena because, unlike Athena, he at least had a little bit of character established simply by virtue of being the main character in a previous game. He didn't need as much time as Athena.
Athena on the other hand, had never appeared in any game before. Giving her a lesser role would have essentially been dooming her to be underused as a character. She needed the majority of the character development in the game...why? Because Phoenix is already a well developed character, and Apollo already had a small bit of fleshing out done to him.
The simple fact that Athena gets a good chunk of the character development doesn't make it any less a game with Phoenix Wright as the main character. Trials and Tribulations isn't any less a game starring Phoenix Wright simply because Godot is the character that hogs the majority of the development.
=====
As for Phoenix forgetting about Trucy...
Spoiler:
That or the game just skipped over all the parts where he was worried about Trucy. He could've very well been mulling over that going back and forth between the detention center and the other places.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Athena took up most of the spotlight in terms of character development because she needed to.
Thank you for proving that I wasn't the only one here who had this exact argument. She's just as much of a victim of creation as she is a spotlight hog. As long as the writers don't keep pushing her into headlines as they have done in this game, she'll be just fine. To be fair, I thought the same of Franziska until I saw her cameo appearance in T&T.
linkenski wrote:
Maybe his relationship with Trucy really is just a facade
Sits right with me. I didn't like Trucy even before she became a walking punchline.
Sits right with me. I didn't like Trucy even before she became a walking punchline.
Y-you take that back! She is NOT a walking punchline and never has been!
...Maybe it's just me, but Phoenix feels more like a babysitter than ever. All these little kids come to play with the legendary attorney, hahah.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Another reason I found her annoying was because I was expecting the game to focus on Apollo, his background and Phoenix's return to law. Instead, we spent a lot of time with her and as her when I just wanted to play as Nick.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Spoiler: "re: worrying about Trucy"
I liked Athena, and while, yes, it felt like AA: Athena Cykes, I thought that was part of the intention. I do think three POV characters was a lot for the length of the game, but we've never gotten this much POV-switching and it was really interesting.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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defenses wrote:
My problem with Athena is that she's a prodigy. I always found the attorneys charming and relatable because they're the underdogs who became attorneys at a "normal" age. In the first two games, you have Phoenix versus Miles and the von Karmas. As for Godot, he isn't a prodigy, but you could tell he's not an amateur. Then we have Apollo who is another average guy who faces off against Klavier, prosecutor and rock god since the age of 17. While Athena's accomplishments are commendable, she doesn't feel like an underdog like the other two.
I agree with this. Having an unbelievably gifted character as a protagonist and having an unbelievably gifted character as a rival/enemy are completely different story-wise.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Quote:
I agree with this. Having an unbelievably gifted character as a protagonist and having an unbelievably gifted character as a rival/enemy are completely different story-wise.
Perhaps, but Athena being "unbelievably gifted" is essentially in name only, at least compared to Phoenix (as a rookie) and Apollo. Yeah, she's younger. So what? She breaks down at the defense's bench (twice, which Phoenix only did once[and that was due to the sudden appearance of a thought to be dead Mia] and Apollo never did), and she screws up just as much as Apollo did and moreso than Phoenix did. The only thing that makes her remotely "unbelievably gifted" is the fact that she can read people's emotions, and if you're going to count that as a deal breaker, then you should probably throw Apollo out for having hypersensitive tell spotting.
Even if she were incredibly gifted in any way besides age, she certainly doesn't act like she's the favorite against the prosecution.
valentinite wrote:
Spoiler: "re: worrying about Trucy"
I liked Athena, and while, yes, it felt like AA: Athena Cykes, I thought that was part of the intention. I do think three POV characters was a lot for the length of the game, but we've never gotten this much POV-switching and it was really interesting.
It was certainly an interesting concept, and I think it worked wonderfully for the most part. While Phoenix is still my favorite lawyer, they made Apollo and Athena into well done characters that kept me from missing Nick too much. Plus, while I like playing as Phoenix, there's definitely something to be said for playing as someone else and watching him run the agency from another perspective.
An example would be...
Spoiler:
"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
I agree with this. Having an unbelievably gifted character as a protagonist and having an unbelievably gifted character as a rival/enemy are completely different story-wise.
Perhaps, but Athena being "unbelievably gifted" is essentially in name only,
I agree that it's in name only, but it still makes it boring story-wise.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Even if she were incredibly gifted in any way besides age, she certainly doesn't act like she's the favorite against the prosecution.
That's beside the point. It's not about how she acts; it's about how she is viewed. A good reason why the protagonist & co. pair so well with their opponents in court is because of the huge perceived gap between the two sides. The courts naturally lean toward the prosecution, and as a result, that side gets almost all the glory.
Then, Athena steps in and suddenly gets a lot more attention from the crowd. I missed the time when everyone, not just the prosecutor, was a lot more condescending toward the defense bench. They weren't like that when Athena took the case herself. It's not like she gets extra points for being a newbie. Both Phoenix and Apollo suffered through plenty more humiliation than Athena has thus far received. Yes, she's only officially been on a case twice, but all those other times, she was there at the bench anyway. In fact, it's more thanks to Blackquill's manipulation that everyone else was moved against the defense altogether, as opposed to how it always has been.
That isn't to say that I've changed my view on Athena, of course. She's still not quite a Mary Sue because of such flaws that you've kindly pointed out - flaws based on inexperience, rather than on personality.
Bad Player wrote:
I agree with this. Having an unbelievably gifted character as a protagonist and having an unbelievably gifted character as a rival/enemy are completely different story-wise.
I think the games would generally do better if neither side had so many "geniuses". Edgeworth is still special only because he's Chief Prosecutor now, not because he was known as the "Genius Prosecutor". "A genius prosecutor? Bah, we get one every year at the office these days."
Admittedly, this is the first time we've had a prodigy introduced on the defense's side, after so many years of mockery. As awesome as Mia and possibly Diego were, they got where they did through years of hard work. I've barely seen Shields at work, but when he was, he wasn't taking things seriously. If he was, though, I suppose he'd be another great lawyer to follow in Gregory's footsteps - but not a prodigy. As for Grossberg, apparently he was also amazing back in the day, but I dunno.
...Phoenix should go abroad and find some other prodigy lawyers. Then we can finally have an all-out war between the prodigies.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Even if she were incredibly gifted in any way besides age, she certainly doesn't act like she's the favorite against the prosecution.
That's beside the point. It's not about how she acts; it's about how she is viewed. A good reason why the protagonist & co. pair so well with their opponents in court is because of the huge perceived gap between the two sides. The courts naturally lean toward the prosecution, and as a result, that side gets almost all the glory.
Then, Athena steps in and suddenly gets a lot more attention from the crowd. I missed the time when everyone, not just the prosecutor, was a lot more condescending toward the defense bench. They weren't like that when Athena took the case herself.
I would argue against that entirely, both from a prosecutor's standpoint and the crowd's standpoint.
We only see Athena head the defense twice in the game, once against Blackquill, and the other against Gaspen Payne. Payne is incredibly insulting towards Athena (and, everyone else for that matter), to the point of calling her a "yellow monkey," and continually asks her if she'd like to be humiliated. Payne's just as much of a jerk to Athena as he is towards anyone else he runs into; no special treatment here.
As for the case against Simon, that's an unfair comparison to begin with:
Spoiler:
As a result, this comparison is incredibly unfair as opposed to Phoenix running into Edgeworth-with-Von-Karma-tactics, Franziska, or Godot, or even Apollo running into Klavier.
As for the crowd, I'm not really sure where you're drawing that conclusion to begin with. The first time the crowd is ever shown to be rooting for one side or another in an Ace Attorney game, it's for the defense. Phoenix gets the crowd on his side after poking a few holes in Redd White's testimony.
The only other times the crowd gets involved are in Rise From the Ashes, Turnabout Big Top, and Farewell, My Turnabout. In RFtA, they pick on Edgeworth, wondering if he's fit to do his job to forgery allegations. In Turnabout Big Top and Farewell, My Turnabout, they go after Phoenix, but that's due to the crowd perceiving him as going after a helpless witness on one occasion, and calling him out for being a "scumbag lawyer" for defending an obviously guilty client in the other. The crowd is never inherently on the prosecution's side.
As for Dual Destinies, the only time the crowd really makes any sort of move for or against her is in Case 5, where:
Spoiler:
Even if all this were the case, though, what exactly is the inherent problem with that? Is it wrong to have a supposed "prodigy" on your team for once in the entire series? Does the simple fact of not being a supposed underdog make Ace Attorney not fun to play? And if that's the case, then playing as Phoenix Wright in DD would arguably be the least fun of all; since he's viewed as an unbeatable defense attorney.
This argument seems like a major grasp at straws in my opinion. The crowd in Ace Attorney has never been biased towards one side or the other; they'll simply go after whoever they believe happens to be a slimeball. Playing as someone who got her badge at 18 as opposed to 23 has no effect on that whatsoever.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Even if all this were the case, though, what exactly is the inherent problem with that? Is it wrong to have a supposed "prodigy" on your team for once in the entire series? Does the simple fact of not being a supposed underdog make Ace Attorney not fun to play?
I think you've missed the point I was making. I don't have a problem with established prodigy characters; I do have a problem with too many spoiling the cast of characters across the series. It was already pushing the boundaries of belief with Franziska passing the bar at age 13. (Pearl doesn't quite apply, since spirit channeling isn't something so easily comparable with other skills.) When Klavier comes along, I didn't care for him, but still tolerated him. By the time Sebastian showed up, I was ready to strangle someone.
Spoiler: GK2-5
Nothing in particular is wrong about Athena; she just has a bit too much going for her from the very beginning - attributes that don't matter in the long run. Her character feels congested with qualities. What do matter are her super-sensitive hearing and her Widget, the basis for a new game mechanic.
Hey, I never said anything about the game being less fun than any other. When did you ever get that idea?
Quote:
And if that's the case, then playing as Phoenix Wright in DD would arguably be the least fun of all; since he's viewed as an unbeatable defense attorney.
Pfft. "Unbeatable" for five minutes.
Quote:
This argument seems like a major grasp at straws in my opinion.
This argument is indeed a major straw grasp! It started off as a much longer rant, but a rant based on mistaken memory is still a rant, so I cut it. Then, I wondered to myself why I was bothering with this argument in the first place when I could just as easily argue against it. And then, I decided to roll with it and play with counter-intuition. So, you could say that I was just making BS. Excuse me. ;P
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Even if all this were the case, though, what exactly is the inherent problem with that? Is it wrong to have a supposed "prodigy" on your team for once in the entire series? Does the simple fact of not being a supposed underdog make Ace Attorney not fun to play?
I think you've missed the point I was making. I don't have a problem with established prodigy characters; I do have a problem with too many spoiling the cast of characters across the series. It was already pushing the boundaries of belief with Franziska passing the bar at age 13. (Pearl doesn't quite apply, since spirit channeling isn't something so easily comparable with other skills.) When Klavier comes along, I didn't care for him, but still tolerated him. By the time Sebastian showed up, I was ready to strangle someone.
Spoiler: GK2-5
Nothing in particular is wrong about Athena; she just has a bit too much going for her from the very beginning - attributes that don't matter in the long run. Her character feels congested with qualities. What do matter are her super-sensitive hearing and her Widget, the basis for a new game mechanic.
Hey, I never said anything about the game being less fun than any other. When did you ever get that idea?
Quote:
And if that's the case, then playing as Phoenix Wright in DD would arguably be the least fun of all; since he's viewed as an unbeatable defense attorney.
Pfft. "Unbeatable" for five minutes.
Quote:
This argument seems like a major grasp at straws in my opinion.
This argument is indeed a major straw grasp! It started off as a much longer rant, but a rant based on mistaken memory is still a rant, so I cut it. Then, I wondered to myself why I was bothering with this argument in the first place when I could just as easily argue against it. And then, I decided to roll with it and play with counter-intuition. So, you could say that I was just making BS. Excuse me. ;P
I agree that the game has too many prodigies, but I count that less of a strike against her and more of a strike against Ace Attorney's fomatting in general.
And that's precisely my point. No one is "unbeatable," if Ace Attorney is anything to go by. Doesn't matter whether you're playing as a rookie or a veteran, the game is crazy enough to where things can go either way at any point.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
Kav wrote:
Apollo felt just as developed in AA4 as Athena currently does in AA5.
Wat.
That's a joke, lol. Apollo had some good characterization that was definitive to his personality, but he had no real motivations or backstory to speak of, that made him a deep character... but since this is mentioned I kinda thought about it but when comparing Apollo and Athena in DD. Funny enough, my current conclusion is that in AA5 Apollo is STILL not even as developed as Athena.
Spoiler: backstories for Apollo and Athena
See, we still don't completely know why Apollo became an attorney. His character got developed in DD, but I'd also argue that it didn't "develop" over the course of the game,
Spoiler: hence
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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linkenski wrote:
See, we still don't completely know why Apollo became an attorney. His character got developed in DD, but I'd also argue that it didn't "develop" over the course of the game,
Spoiler: hence
All development he got from leaving the agency was basically development of his relationship with Athena, rather than development of his character itself.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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I liked the idea of "Dark" Apollo having some sprites that look like Kristoph's and it would be cool to see them take that further, since he was trained by a psychopath. He ought to have gotten some bad morals with him along the way. Also we don't know how young he was when he started getting lectures of Kristoph. There's that
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
linkenski wrote:
See, we still don't completely know why Apollo became an attorney. His character got developed in DD, but I'd also argue that it didn't "develop" over the course of the game,
Spoiler: hence
All development he got from leaving the agency was basically development of his relationship with Athena, rather than development of his character itself.
But it showed an Apollo who dared to doubt Nick (and his belief of always believing), which is in my eyes is quite a change from the previous game; in my eyes it could have been anyone close to the agency (i.e. even a 'normal' client) and it was not specifically built around Athena. Heck, it would even been better actually... have the defendant be a normal client (i.e. a non-lawyer Athena who first appears in this case) and then Apollo doubting his client to come up with a reverse 2-4-esque case. In the dark age of law, who can trust who and what should a lawyer do if is not sure of his client's innocence? Do some deep musings, some reflections on the third case and we'd have a slightly tighter theme and less of Athena-is-Capcom's-go-to-girl-if-they-want-something-done-in-this-game.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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linkenski wrote:
Does anyone know what the common Japanese opinion is of Athena by the way? There's so much valuable feedback for the AA-team on this forum but I feel it's too obscure, and I hope Japanese people have similar critisisms so Capcom won't just ignore it and make AA6 an "Athena is back with the gang and is the central figure for another game"
I've been wondering this myself, good sir. If it's not on a Japanese forum, I doubt the developers care, and I really hope our fellow fans in the east didn't fall in love with Athena.
Is anyone here knowledgeable about Japanese Ace Attorney forums?
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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EDIT: Or placing 11th out of 180+ characters in an official poll, with being 2nd as an assistant, 3rd as a girl means she's severely hated in the Japanese fandom for that matter.
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Last edited by Reglare on Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Ash wrote:
I've seen a fairly lively anti-Athena thread (also commentating on how it seems the developers seem to eager forcing her on the players with too many specs) on 2chan, but it's 2chan, so... (On the other hand, there seems to be a 'general' anti-character thread, and a special anti-Athena thread) ^_~'
Oh? That's really interesting...what are they hating on? The same things as us (I) or something else?
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
...The mood matrix can stay.
Since when do Apollo or Phoenix have a degree in Analytical Psychology? Or possess extraordinary hearing, for that matter?
FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
She develops WAY too much for a first game.
So? I could say the same about Phoenix in the first game, yet I don't see anybody complaining about it.
TheIdioteque wrote:
Phoenix and Apollo are simply supporting characters.
Phoenix has had nearly three whole games to himself, before Athena was even conceived. Surely he doesn't need to be the focus of every Ace Attorney game. And even with Athena "hogging the limelight", Apollo gets more character development in this game, than he does in AJ.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Thane wrote:
...The mood matrix can stay.
Since when do Apollo or Phoenix have a degree in Analytical Psychology? Or possess extraordinary hearing, for that matter?
Actually I haven't seen anything that doesn't indicate we can't just rip widget from around Athena's neck and use her magic tech glove to use the mood matrix. Sure she can sense discord with her ears...but the mood matrix could be used anyway.
I was actually largely disappointed at her supposedly having a degree in analytical psychology...yet all the work can be put down to her tech gadget and her innate hearing ability. Yet she keeps insisting on the power of "Analytical Psychology" in the courtroom when most of the time she's just booting up the Mood Matrix and letting other non-qualified people run wild with it.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Pierre wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
Thane wrote:
...The mood matrix can stay.
Since when do Apollo or Phoenix have a degree in Analytical Psychology? Or possess extraordinary hearing, for that matter?
Actually I haven't seen anything that doesn't indicate we can't just rip widget from around Athena's neck and use her magic tech glove to use the mood matrix. Sure she can sense discord with her ears...but the mood matrix could be used anyway.
Actually, I think they explicitly say that Athena's magic hearing is necessary for the mood matrix to work, iirc.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Apollo - Magic Blood
Phoenix - Soul-powered Spirit object
Athena - ?????
All I've heard her do is pick up on discord and then use Widget to see what the discord is. Then update widget as new testimony arises.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Also yes, I'm with you 100% about her powers being from nowhere.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
Nope :P It was probably in case 1 or 2, when the mood matrix was first used. But I think they said something about it being a combination of info manually inputted and the stuff picked up from Athena's magic hearing, or something?
Also yes, I'm with you 100% about her powers being from nowhere.
Also yes, I'm with you 100% about her powers being from nowhere.
Her mother was working on robots and stuff......they had some pretty similar functions.
Spoiler: Crack Theory Spoilers from 5-5 throughout.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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linkenski wrote:
See, we still don't completely know why Apollo became an attorney. His character got developed in DD, but I'd also argue that it didn't "develop" over the course of the game,
Spoiler: hence
Spoiler:
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Phoenix has a magic pendant that makes giant chains and red padlocks appear out of nowhere when someone's keeping a secret from him, which he got from a couple spirit mediums whose tits erupt out of their robes every time they call on the ghost of their dead sister/cousin. Verdict:
Apollo has a magic bracelet that cuts off his circulation every time someone lies to him, and apparently has superhuman vision because, uh, he's from a family of magicians or something. Verdict:
Athena has ultra-sensitive hearing she uses to pick up on unnatural changes in someone's voice and a mini-computer she uses to analyze said changes to find inconsistencies in testimony. Verdict: HELL NO THAT'S COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS GTFO
Did I miss something?
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