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GS5 Spoiler DiscussionTopic%20Title
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In case the title didn't tip you off, SPOILER WARNING in effect for this thread.

This thread is for the entire game. That being said, I do ask that for the next two weeks after release (so until August 8th), spoiler tags be used in this thread. It sounds contradictory, but I'd like to reduce the risk of anyone getting accidentally spoiled before they have a chance to play the game.

Still, if you don't want to be spoiled... gidouttahere!

Otherwise, post away!
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Spoiler:
lol, finally the detective could be the ultimate culprit
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Okay, so I finished the game yesterday, so my initial thoughts about the game:

Spoiler:
To start with the conclusion, I liked it, but it felt very much as a reaction to the previous games. And that works out well at times, sometimes not as good. For example, the concept of the Dark Times of the Law was great, because it built upon themes of the previous games. Prosecutors who kill (Jin, Karuma), defense attorneys who fabricate evidence (Phoenix/Garyuu), the constant battles in court: yes, it would be logical to see that people would lose faith in the law. The Themis Academy and Ichiro were a great example, of people who tried to cheat the law. So yes, this was a great concept, and it tied very nicely to Naruhodo, because he was a big part of bringing this movement up in the first place: have him come back, and save Jin was great.

Also, Odoroki was a much better character here, because we finally were told something more about him, something horribly neglected in GS4. His ties with Aoi, their catchphrase daijoubu, it all worked IMHO. Also, how his bracelet reacted to Kokone, and how he started to get doubts about was 1) done well, 2) fitting his character, I think. It's a lot more believing in your friends/clients without any doubt (certainly considering that his own mentor betrayed him...). It makes him different from Naruhodo, in a good way.

I have said it many times now, but Kokone was horrible as a character. She was just too involved with everything. Being friends with Shinobu ties her up with two cases, one other case serves as her introduction and the last two cases she ends up being the defendant and the case is strongly tied to her (naturally) sad past. And that case is also one of the reasons for the Dark Times of the Law. Oh, and she has a new gameplay mechanic (which is praised as providing something new to the legal system), and is instantly the moodmaker of the party and she replaces Minuki in case two, even though it would make much more sense to have Yumemi's friend as your assistent. And you get to play as her. And not. YES WE KNOW IT KNOW SHE IS AWESOME. Jeez. Kokone is just too much present in the plot.

I did like the matrix thingy, though I think it would have been more logical for it to have been an investigation phase mechanic, rather than a trial mechanic. Everybody talks about evidence there, and no, 'I think you were a little sad, even though you should have been happy' is not really convincing. And then we have the judge in the last trial saying he thinks it adds something to the legal world, which sounded too much like the developer's words, rather than the judge's.

Having three attorneys, all with special powers was just too much for this game. It has severe problems with presentation: the game starts with Naruhodo's narration, but then it turns out the case 1's narration is done by Kokone, but you play as Naruhodo. Case two: narration Kokone/gameplay Odoroki. Last two cases? Mostly Naruhodo. It keeps jumping, and I really have to ask the question: did we really have to be Kokone? Does it add to the narration/presentation to the game if we keep jumping between characters? Do we really need to separate narration protagonist and gameplay protagonist?

The game is clearly a GK team game, with the overall theme. Like I said, I liked the theme, the presentation, not as much. With a big theme like this, it would have been better if they had spread it a bit more, instead of concentrating on the last two cases.

The cases were 'interesting' in both the positive and negative meanings of the word. Case two foreshadows a lot of the 'major' plot twists of case five for example (mask / ID tags as 'identity markers'. Case three finally shows the true implications of the Dark Times. Four and five however were strange. Four ends abruptly and gives you no resolution whatsoever. Five is just an extension and borrow heavily from GS1-4, GS1-5 (the child murderer, someone else being behind it, someone close being behind it, memory loss) and GS2-4 (hostage situation, someone communicating through proxy, an international sought criminal). Too heavily actually.

Case two and three were my favorite. I love youkai, which explains two, but there are some interesting elements like the rules of the village, the turnabout situation surrounding Great Kyuubi and the idea of a locked room mystery. With three, I liked the case itself as well as how it ties up to the overall theme.

Oh, and the usage of Minuki and Harumi was horrible. Minuki disappears almost immediately, shows her face one or two times and then ends up a hostage. Harumi was only needed to deliver the letter, and to tell a bit about the black locks. This, as well as Apollo's kickass growth are all reactions to GS4 I think, were a lot of people complained we didn't see/hear about of the old cast. In this case, Apollo was handled way because it did really add something to his character, but Minuki and Harumi were really nothing more than fanservice, and to be honest, I am not a very big fan of this kind of presented-as-important-but-not-really-important appearances. I'd rather have something subtle.

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cioz wrote:
Spoiler:
lol, finally the detective could be the ultimate culprit

Spoiler:
Using of disguise
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Ash wrote:
Okay, so I finished the game yesterday, so my initial thoughts about the game:

Spoiler:
To start with the conclusion, I liked it, but it felt very much as a reaction to the previous games. And that works out well at times, sometimes not as good. For example, the concept of the Dark Times of the Law was great, because it built upon themes of the previous games. Prosecutors who kill (Jin, Karuma), defense attorneys who fabricate evidence (Phoenix/Garyuu), the constant battles in court: yes, it would be logical to see that people would lose faith in the law. The Themis Academy and Ichiro were a great example, of people who tried to cheat the law. So yes, this was a great concept, and it tied very nicely to Naruhodo, because he was a big part of bringing this movement up in the first place: have him come back, and save Jin was great.

Also, Odoroki was a much better character here, because we finally were told something more about him, something horribly neglected in GS4. His ties with Aoi, their catchphrase daijoubu, it all worked IMHO. Also, how his bracelet reacted to Kokone, and how he started to get doubts about was 1) done well, 2) fitting his character, I think. It's a lot more believing in your friends/clients without any doubt (certainly considering that his own mentor betrayed him...). It makes him different from Naruhodo, in a good way.

I have said it many times now, but Kokone was horrible as a character. She was just too involved with everything. Being friends with Shinobu ties her up with two cases, one other case serves as her introduction and the last two cases she ends up being the defendant and the case is strongly tied to her (naturally) sad past. And that case is also one of the reasons for the Dark Times of the Law. Oh, and she has a new gameplay mechanic (which is praised as providing something new to the legal system), and is instantly the moodmaker of the party and she replaces Minuki in case two, even though it would make much more sense to have Yumemi's friend as your assistent. And you get to play as her. And not. YES WE KNOW IT KNOW SHE IS AWESOME. Jeez. Kokone is just too much present in the plot.

I did like the matrix thingy, though I think it would have been more logical for it to have been an investigation phase mechanic, rather than a trial mechanic. Everybody talks about evidence there, and no, 'I think you were a little sad, even though you should have been happy' is not really convincing. And then we have the judge in the last trial saying he thinks it adds something to the legal world, which sounded too much like the developer's words, rather than the judge's.

Having three attorneys, all with special powers was just too much for this game. It has severe problems with presentation: the game starts with Naruhodo's narration, but then it turns out the case 1's narration is done by Kokone, but you play as Naruhodo. Case two: narration Kokone/gameplay Odoroki. Last two cases? Mostly Naruhodo. It keeps jumping, and I really have to ask the question: did we really have to be Kokone? Does it add to the narration/presentation to the game if we keep jumping between characters? Do we really need to separate narration protagonist and gameplay protagonist?

The game is clearly a GK team game, with the overall theme. Like I said, I liked the theme, the presentation, not as much. With a big theme like this, it would have been better if they had spread it a bit more, instead of concentrating on the last two cases.

The cases were 'interesting' in both the positive and negative meanings of the word. Case two foreshadows a lot of the 'major' plot twists of case five for example (mask / ID tags as 'identity markers'. Case three finally shows the true implications of the Dark Times. Four and five however were strange. Four ends abruptly and gives you no resolution whatsoever. Five is just an extension and borrow heavily from GS1-4, GS1-5 (the child murderer, someone else being behind it, someone close being behind it, memory loss) and GS2-4 (hostage situation, someone communicating through proxy, an international sought criminal). Too heavily actually.

Case two and three were my favorite. I love youkai, which explains two, but there are some interesting elements like the rules of the village, the turnabout situation surrounding Great Kyuubi and the idea of a locked room mystery. With three, I liked the case itself as well as how it ties up to the overall theme.

Oh, and the usage of Minuki and Harumi was horrible. Minuki disappears almost immediately, shows her face one or two times and then ends up a hostage. Harumi was only needed to deliver the letter, and to tell a bit about the black locks. This, as well as Apollo's kickass growth are all reactions to GS4 I think, were a lot of people complained we didn't see/hear about of the old cast. In this case, Apollo was handled way because it did really add something to his character, but Minuki and Harumi were really nothing more than fanservice, and to be honest, I am not a very big fan of this kind of presented-as-important-but-not-really-important appearances. I'd rather have something subtle.


Spoiler:
I think we're mostly in agreement here. Apollo finally got the character depth and opportunities he needed, and it was great both playing as him and seeing him pop up elsewhere. Phoenix was a little more static, but he did well as an 'agency head' - he felt definitely more like his GS4 self than anything else, which is good.

Athena was... hm. I liked her character, but the focus on her got really extreme, like you said. Defense attorney at the age of 18, was heavily involved in one of the cases that brought about the "dark age" (as an aside, I liked that they referenced Phoenix's disbarment as part of the cause of the "dark age"), can read people's emotions, defendant of the final case, gets black Psyche-Locks, was saved by Simon and wants to save him... it felt a little overboard, like Kay in AAI1 turned up to eleven.

Other than Phoenix/Apollo the returning characters were handled terribly. Trucy was background noise for three cases, then got taken hostage just as she seemed to finally get a chance to play the partner role, Pearl seemed like she was going to be a partner for case 5 but just vanished after dropping info about the black locks, Klavier practically wasn't even there, Edgeworth - Edgeworth actually worked fairly well, I think, but they should have alluded to him/had him appear earlier.

All in all I think the game wasn't just a reaction to AJ, but also to AAI and AAI2. They were pushing really hard to make a totally new entry after the cameo-fest of the AAI series, and as a result the links to past games feel forced. I would have liked the reappearing characters to get at least a little more to do, and it would have been nice to see at least one non-main character show up; one of the nice things about the original trilogy was stuff like getting to see Adrian after 2-4 or dealing with Lotta a second (or third!) time. Of course, AAI and AAI2 went way overboard on that front, but I wish the team had tried to find a balance instead of going so far in the other direction.

Case three was probably my favorite. The murder had a good trick to it, the characters worked well, and Athena's Objection! music is great. Cases one and two were nice, case four was more of a prelude than anything else, and case five was mostly good but the final villain just didn't quite work as well as he could have.

Also, what was up with the pacing of the last two cases? Even putting aside them being essentially one big case, just the one investigation in each and just the one trial in the final case felt strange. I guess it's better than intentionally stretching it out for no good reason, but I think it was a little too... concentrated, maybe? Like they wanted to keep pushing forward without stopping to take a breath. I can see the value in that, and I was glued to my 3DS for parts, but on reflection it just feels odd.

Oh, one last thing - was it just me, or did the culprits in this game go down easily compared to previous games? With the possible exception of Ichiro and maybe Phantom, I feel like past games' culprits put up more of a fight.

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Re: GS5 Spoiler DiscussionTopic%20Title
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Bolt Storm wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, what was up with the pacing of the last two cases? Even putting aside them being essentially one big case, just the one investigation in each and just the one trial in the final case felt strange. I guess it's better than intentionally stretching it out for no good reason, but I think it was a little too... concentrated, maybe? Like they wanted to keep pushing forward without stopping to take a breath. I can see the value in that, and I was glued to my 3DS for parts, but on reflection it just feels odd.

Oh, one last thing - was it just me, or did the culprits in this game go down easily compared to previous games? With the possible exception of Ichiro and maybe Phantom, I feel like past games' culprits put up more of a fight.


Spoiler:
Well, 5-4 doesn't even have a culprit (what Oogawara did was pretty much what every other witness does in GS...), so that's still two out of four, right? ^_~

But yeah, 5-4, 5-5 are strange. Only having one trial in the last case didn't bother me much, but it would have been better to either present it as one case (because it is!), or rewrite the case so 5-4 it gives more closure.

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Spoiler:
I'll just say that I loved everything about Kizuki Kokone (Athena Cykes). :)
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Spoiler:
I pretty much agree with what Ash and Bolt said. I suppose I won't just repeat it all.

I actually liked how all returning characters were main characters (so all the witnesses were new characters), but as has been said (even by me in another thread) the returning characters weren't handled very well. I really really really wish Trucy had more of a presence, and was your assistant for at least one case.

Also, Pearl's design was terrible. She doesn't even look like she hit puberty!


The cases had plenty of fake solutions, which I loved. I think this is why the confrontations with the killers didn't feel as tough as in the GK games; here in GS5, the crime was mostly figured out by the time you started the confrontation, and it was more proving that the killer did it.

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So I finally wrote this up. (Legal double post! :D) In a few other posts/threads, I said that even though I thought the characters and mysteries were great, for some reason I didn't really like the game, and also complained about Athena. After thinking, I decided/realized that it's because of the game's story. It's unoriginal and poorly done.

Before explaining, I want to clarify on what I mean by "story." The way I see it, the game/cases can be divided into the "story" and "mystery"; the "mystery" is what you'd expect it to be, and then the "story" is everything else. This is not a precise, definite definition, but it's the best I can give. For example, the "mystery" in 1-4 is the lake "locked room" murder, while the story is Nick saving Edgey from both the current case and the demons from his past. In 1-4's case, the story and mystery are quite distinct (except for DL-6). If you remove the DL-6 part, you could change all the characters, and the murder mystery would still be fine; conversely, you could replace the lake murder with any crime, and the story is largely unaffected as long as Edgey is still the defendant. The distinction between the murder and story is not always as clear, though; for example, it's quite difficult in 2-4 to split the murder mystery from the kidnapping plot. In my opinion, however, the plot and mystery were relatively separated in GS5.

Spoiler: GS5 spoilers, also includes GK2 spoilers
The mysteries in GS5 were fantastic, but what was the story? Phantom kills Mari, frames Athena for it, leading to Blackquill confessing to murder, and Nick proving both Athena and Blackquill innocent. Of course, if you swap around a few names, you get the exact same plot as 1-5. The major difference between GS5 and 1-5 is that in GS5 you defend Athena (the equivalent of Ema) while in 1-5 you defend Lana (the equivalent of Blackquill), but that has no real impact since you're trying to prove both of them innocent; it doesn't matter which one is the defendant.

However, they mix it up with Blackquill's sister (forget her name) forcing the trial, and then Phantom has his shtick of all his disguises, including a Nick disguise. Except... isn't Blackquill's sister talking through her robots similar to De Killer talking to the court through his radio? And didn't the Big Bad in GK2 mimic the characters' voices and speeches? And going back to 1-5, in both cases the criminal used fingerprints to through doubt onto the girl... Not only did the plot feel rehashed, but several elements in the case also did.

There was also the fact that the plot focused on Athena, who as a character was pretty boring and "Sue"-ish, although I wrote in this post about how I believe the plot forced Athena's character into what it was. So again, it's the plot's fault.

Of course, it was not just the plot feeling unoriginal that was the problem--it was also the fact that it was handled poorly. Specifically, the foreshadowing; it was all given away by the first investigation of the second case. 10 minutes into the game we get a flashback of a young Athena covered in blood, so we know she was involved in an incident (clearly murder, though, since this is AA) when she was younger. And, since this is AA, we're going to have to solve it later. And then near the beginning of case 2, we find out that Blackquill has been convicted of murder, and has some sort of connection with Athena... There's only one way it's going to work out. Moreover, because this is AA, Blackquill is innocent, and there's no way Athena, our sidekick, is going to be guilty. But if Blackquill has admitted to the murder, he must be covering for Athena... and suddenly, the entire plot has been laid bare. Before the second trial of the game has even started.

Basically, I was spoiled--by the game itself. By the beginning of the game, the game's foreshadowing has pretty much spelled out the entire plot, and it's a plot we've already seen in another case. And so the feeling I got was as if I had been spoiled; I knew what was going to happen in the rest of the game. Just like someone who's been spoiled, it was fun seeing the mysteries and the new characters, but, knowing what was coming in terms of the main plot, it just didn't have that 'magic' of the other games.

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Sounds like a legitimate analysis, and having only seen GS5 in a language I can't understand I didn't get a proper impression of the writing but I'm betting it's like in AAI, and I think the biggest issue Ace Attorney has right now is the fact that it has Takeshi Yamazaki as the lead writer. Let's face it, he's not really as talented as Shu Takumi, even if he gets most of the ideas right. A lot of the things that didn't work in his games were how his ideas were executed. In GS5 it's like he got tired of writing Phoenix character so we had to play as Athena for one of them, and Apollo for one of them, oh and Apollo for half another case when it's really strongest to have one definitive protagonist for each game that you can grow attatched to.

Also I think the whole rehash of old ideas thing is true as well. I even noticed some of it in case 1. The bloody writing on the floor and it being the ID of a police-department member... case 4-3 much?
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: GS5 spoilers, also includes GK2 spoilers
Basically, I was spoiled--by the game itself. By the beginning of the game, the game's foreshadowing has pretty much spelled out the entire plot, and it's a plot we've already seen in another case. And so the feeling I got was as if I had been spoiled; I knew what was going to happen in the rest of the game. Just like someone who's been spoiled, it was fun seeing the mysteries and the new characters, but, knowing what was coming in terms of the main plot, it just didn't have that 'magic' of the other games.

Essentially, GS5 lacks what the original trilogy couldn't have possibly fallen into: formula writing. Because the trilogy has set the standard of quality throughout the series, the following games are forced to compete with its standards. It becomes more difficult to maintain originality without drifting; but this is natural as the series grows. However, GS5 has avoided drifting to the point that it is set upon a road a bit too narrow. It's not flexible. That's a recurring problem in the Investigations games too.

Going through the DLC case now, I see where more of their intriguing ideas had landed. Of course, since Turnabout Return is a DLC case, the premise it's built on is much more "free" and lighthearted. Thus, there is less pressure put on the writers to make it worthy as a plot-relevant case that would impact the series' direction. Because I haven't finished it yet, I can't make judgments on how it compares to the rest of the game, but what I have seen so far, I am enjoying.
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And honestly, I'd prefer it if the next main GS game had a cronological case order. I'm tired of the GK teams reuse of the Present case --> past case --> followup case --> reminiscence case --> present case formula. It would've been fine if there was 2 or 3 plot relevant cases but the other two were just complete fillers with goofy and self-contained stories. It worked really well in Trials & Tribulations for example. 3-2 and 3-3 are my favorite cases in that game actually.
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I just noticed that the killers in this game... *spoilers for the entire series*
Spoiler:
Are all male. This is a first, isn't it?
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Ah, but is
Spoiler:
Phantom
male? :3
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linkenski wrote:
And honestly, I'd prefer it if the next main GS game had a cronological case order. I'm tired of the GK teams reuse of the Present case --> past case --> followup case --> reminiscence case --> present case formula. It would've been fine if there was 2 or 3 plot relevant cases but the other two were just complete fillers with goofy and self-contained stories. It worked really well in Trials & Tribulations for example. 3-2 and 3-3 are my favorite cases in that game actually.


But GK2 has the cronological case order. The only 'past' case in GK2 is case 3(The Inherited Turnabout), the reminiscence case.

The reason of DD case order isn't just the scenario team took GK once.
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Spoiler:
Juniper gets a crush on Apollo after he saves her from the bombing.

Her personality's oddly familiar...Wait...

...Vera!

Why doesn't she return, given her major role in the prequel? Will she ever return?
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Smithee wrote:
Spoiler:
Juniper gets a crush on Apollo after he saves her from the bombing.

Her personality's oddly familiar...Wait...

...Vera!

Why doesn't she return, given her major role in the prequel? Will she ever return?

She was tossed aside like most other major characters. I doubt she'll ever come back - since it seems like she was forgotten. It's also like...
Spoiler: GS4 Spoilers
Lamiroir. She was only referenced in one case (by Juni), despite having one of the biggest roles you could ever have in a Ace Attorney game.

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STARS Jill wrote:
Smithee wrote:
Spoiler:
Juniper gets a crush on Apollo after he saves her from the bombing.

Her personality's oddly familiar...Wait...

...Vera!

Why doesn't she return, given her major role in the prequel? Will she ever return?

She was tossed aside like most other major characters. I doubt she'll ever come back - since it seems like she was forgotten. It's also like...
Spoiler: GS4 Spoilers
Lamiroir. She was only referenced in one case (by Juni), despite having one of the biggest roles you could ever have in a Ace Attorney game.

Well, the entire Gramarye plot was thrown away in GS5. She/it may see a return in GS6, though.
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It should because I don't want another scenario that involves "A mysterious shadowy figure looming from above" (Aka Yatagarasu/Phantom) that seems to be a tendency of Takeshi Yamazaki, just like that alot of his cases are built with complexity but lack emotional intrigue. I think we should get away from big-scale tragedies and they should revert the protagonists hero-status to simply having the "ordinary protagonist" status they had when Takumi wrote them. Seriously the way either of the protagonists are portrayed, as proven by the usual gimmicks of case 1 openings, makes it feel like they're super-heroes. It's cheesy as in too cliché even for Ace Attorney imo.

On a side note I also wish they'd get away from rivals that has religious/honorable traits as Lang and Blackquill.

Just get back to having crimes that have something personal at stake for the protagonist or his surrounding cohorts. I feel like 5-3 was the closest we got to this even if the emotional part was more connected to the supporting roles of that episode rather than Athena herself.
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I actually loved Mikagami in GK2; her religious lawful goodness to the point of being an antagonist was great. (Plus her motivations were really unique and interesting.)

The rivals were evil-for-the-sake-of-evil types in the first few games, but have all been "good guys" at heart since GS4; I think having an evil rival again would be nice.

I do, however, like that Blackquill (even though he's "good") is able to consistently make logically coherent theories that implicate the accused. That's something I don't think we've seen since Edgey in the first game >_>
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Was it ever mentioned from whom Blackquill learned prosecuting? If not, I can take a pretty good guess who he takes after.
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K I'm late to this party but I DID beat the game! (most of the character profiles are updated to if you guys wouldn't mind taking a look to see if I butchered anything...)

Overall, I was pleased with the game. It didn't unseat my favorite (JFA) but I enjoyed it, I thought the Mood Matrix was fun if a little overly gimmicky. I liked Blackquill a lot as prosecutor, Bobby as detective, and a few of the side characters stood out (especially the Tenmas). Most of the killers didn't interest me, probably because they were all given away immediately except for 5-5 (which, despite not being an original concept, had me giggling happily). Like everyone else has said, the returning characters might as well have not been there. I was especially disappointed in Trucy's role; I was really excited to see her and Phoenix team up, but it was so short lived. Poor thing didn't even make it to court!

As for Athena, I'm a little mixed. I went in expecting her to be Important so I couldn't be mad at her for living up to my expectations. In general I'd say I didn't dislike her, I just wish they'd finally move away from this teen girl sidekick shtick they can't get away from. That angle is done.

Spoiler:
I did like, though, that we got to play as everyone. It was a little random, but it made it feel like Phoenix is running an actual firm for the first time, rather than just trying cases with the occasional tag along. I liked that Apollo had his chance to chase the case with an assistant, but that he also got to support her as her sempai. And then they both got to support Phoenix. Seeing all three of them behind the bench in the end warmed my heart a little, and solidified Phoenix as mentor. I feel like after that I wouldn't mind a GS6 where Apollo and Trucy hunt one case while Athena tackles another (maybe with.... *gasp* a teenaged BOY assistant!?) and Phoenix supervises/steps in for a case/is a witness. I'd also like to see Athena and Trucy team up at some point. Maybe that's too many teenaged girls even for this series, but I think it'd be fun to see them in court, since I get the feeling that Trucy is more adept at law than she is, and it'd make for an interesting dynamic.

And while I'm still in spoiler tag, let me just say that I love Bobby, and having been spoiled before even starting the game, I cried the whole time knowing he wasn't "real." But I almost don't care, because I found him that entertaining.

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I'm curious, Croik, did you get around to playing the DLC case as well? It'll solidify more once I replay the game in English, but all-in-all I think it was my favorite case. Good characters, an interesting mystery, a fun setting and premise... in a lot of ways it feels like the developers were letting themselves have a little more freedom with it, especially with how they play with some of the series tropes.

Spoiler: DLC case
(Unintentionally causing the wrong person to be arrested after day one, the accidental nature of the victim's death...)


If it's released day 1 alongside the English version I'm curious as to how playing it chronologically (between cases 2 and 3) would affect the flow of things. Having the extra case as Phoenix and introducing Pearl and Psyche-Locks earlier might actually help alleviate a bit of the rushed feeling of 5-4 and 5-5. It would also break up the big stretch in the middle of the game where you're only playing as Apollo and Athena (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just a bit odd given Phoenix is technically the star of the game.)

On the other hand, there is something kind of appropriate about Phoenix essentially only being playable for one really big, serious case (since 5-1's bombing winds up being part of 5-4 and 5-5's plot anyway), so... :yogi:
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Spoiler: Two things, relate to AA: DD
First up, I'm at the halfway point of Case 2 and I have to say, man it's getting freaky-deaky.
Second, isn't there a walkthrough for this game. I know someone on CR did one but I'm having no luck. I think it's for teh end portions because in the first case, I failed to present the remote and I screwed that up. I just want to prevent a screw-up or so in the future.

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Spoiler:
I'm actually finding this game isn't that hard. Actually, if you get used to the idea that you can save right up to the point where you're asked to present evidence (basically, anywhere where you select something), it's actually much more convenient, and if you miss something, you can reread the script. But ja, as people have been saying, some of the stuff in the game is rather predictable, and I knew long before I was asked to present certain evidence how something was supposed to happen. And I feel this game basically holds your hand. Like in the investigation portions of previous games, you would have to revisit certain places and talk to people or take a guess at what you'd have to present to people to advance the game, but this game actually tells you what you need to do and sometimes even brings you to places you have to go to to advance. You don't even get penalized for picking the wrong options when you're using perceive or the magatama. Not that there's anything wrong with it; it's a bit more structured, and some people will like it and some people won't. Personally, I didn't use the Notes tab much because I didn't need to, and could just remember most of what I had to do anyways.

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Spoiler: !DLC
As for the mood matrix, I found it to be a new and interesting gameplay mechanic. Case 5 really used all possible variations they had. I think that the gameplay and story integration worked really well there. However, it was a bit of a pity that there were so long segments between some of the noise reductions.
And the UI was quite clumsily done with respect to the evidence vs emotion switching. It would have lessened the impact of the mode switch I know, but it was still poor from an usability standpoint.

I don't like how so much in case 2 relied on things ultimately proven irrelevant. The entire air duct thing was a big waste of time. But the characters were nice and worked well in their roles.

Case 3 was nice, even if it was more or less filler. The dynamic between the three friends was interesting and Scuttlebutt stole the show each time she appeared. The confrontation with the killer was poorly foreshadowed, but the actual confrontation was highly interesting.

The use of Klavier wasn't poor, but he was quite clearly under utilized. Him getting better along with Athena than Apollo could have been made a minor plot point, but it barely happened as is. It is true that it is Ema that he doesn't get along with, but a little more friction with Apollo would have been interesting.

One thing that bugs me is the last two revisualizations being completely obvious to me. A few tricks were a bit too obvious too. I called the switchero in case 4 the instant that the ability was mentioned.

Athena did get a lot of focus, but I don't mind. I feel as if she is interesting enough to earn the attention and at the same time it never felt that she had too much focus.

Simon was an interesting character too. I am happily ignorant in the minor localization differences here. What was important was his personality and how he acts. He spiced things up in the courtroom with his stylish attacks on the defense. Taka was quite interesting too.

The foreshadowing managed to be even blunter than in Miracle Mask, but the important part was not if the two had history, but what that history was and the impact of their backstory. Athena having breakdowns was well motivated and builds her character. The sister aspect was perhaps a little too downplayed for my taste, especially in how she never killed anyone.

I have to agree on the fact that the ending of case 4 was very abrupt. That's not a case ending, that's a part ending. A case needs to have a stronger separation from the other cases. They should really just have joined the two cases and made this as 4 case game, because that's what it is.

The robots were a bit underused. The one witness was nice yes, but it didn't have any big impact on the story. The only part where it really changed the story is in how Athena was sheltered. I was kinda hoping that the research was more interesting than that. And the link between the robots and Widget was just glanced over. This is stuff that could carry an entire plot on its own.

The final killer came right out of the left field. Didn't suspect a thing until the reveal. A nice character both before and after the reveal, but the contrast is just too much. There were no sub-tones what-so-ever to bridge the states during the game. The turn was sharp and shocking, but that is all it was, sharp and shocking. It just isn't the same character.

The use of Trucy was poor. I have to agree on the claim that she was just noise here. Pearls was extremely underused as well. But at least she will get the DLC case. But Edgeworth was well used.

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Spoiler:
I really liked the game overall. Not incredible, but a very good game. I think that they decided to put many old characters in the game and integrate them in some cases, while also showing a brand new palette of characters. At the end, this didn't work out that well. As many said, some characters are just there, just to be there and really have no use beside dialogue.

Take Trucy's role in this game (if you even could call it a role). She's there because she needs to be there, since shes Phoenix' daughter. Other than that, thats all there really is. She was really only dialogue in CH2 and that didn't change much in the later chapters. She didn't even have a role in CH3 and got taken hostage in CH5. So she really only was there at CH2 + CH4 were she didn't do much at all. I'm kinda disappointed that the TrucyApollo arc didn't get to an end.

I loved phony Fulbrights staged personality. It made me laugh several times during the game, just because how overexeggerated everything was. Certainly a good character and he went out with a bang (I liked the ending, but it's all opinion. I can see people disliking it because of how abrupt it was.)

I feel like Athena's arc got explained much, much better than Apollos in AA AJ. Athena's past and her whole background is basically done within her first game, while Apollo still needs to learn about his true relationship to Lamiroire and Trucy.

I really liked Simon as a character. Instead of focusing on the mistakes by the localization, it should really just be accepted as a part of his personality and as a true samurai. Overall a really great character that grew within the story.

I like the older version of Phoenix. While it is certainly noticable that his character changed with the writers, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

I felt like Pearls did not have a place in this game. She didn't get any character development at all and she only spoke a few lines within the entire game (which had no impact whatsoever), but I can see what they wanted to do.

Edgeworth was certainly a great addition to the first part of 5/1, although his necessity can be debated. I liked his cameo though.

Klavier is what disappointed me the most. He was there in CH3, spoke some lines and performed with Juniper. That's it. I still think his new voice doesn't fit him at all, but since he really only objects like 2 times in the entire game (while remaking the mock trial), it doesn't really matter.

I really have to say that my favorite character is Fulbright, followed by Simon/Athena. Apollo and Phoenix both played their parts really well. Klavier/Pearl/Trucy didn't have a place in this game imo. I really liked this game most of the part plot and characterwise, although it certainly has it's flaws. I really liked the Friendtrio Arc in CH3, too.
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CormagMHFU wrote:
Spoiler:
I think that they decided to put many old characters in the game and integrate them in some cases, while also showing a brand new palette of characters. At the end, this didn't work out that well. As many said, some characters are just there, just to be there and really have no use beside dialogue.

"Many"? Have you played either of GK games? xD
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^ What I thought too.

But what's funny is that most of the cameos in the GK games work to the cases' favors, unlike in DD where mostly every cameo is useless to the plot.
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Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing.

Case 1
Spoiler:
Probably said it before but didn't think a lot of this one. The set-up for it is on a very large scale, very epic but somehow just didn't hit the mark. Maybe I'd been too spoiled for the case beforehand, what with all the trailers and artwork around of an exploding courtroom. It just didn't grab me. But a first case is nothing to judge.


Case 2
Spoiler:
I really liked the new characters in this one. The location was interesting as well, the Japanese-ness of it didn't really throw me as I've seen others comment negatively on. As the great :udgy: once said: each case takes place in its own universe so I was happy to go along with it. I totally fell for Rex Kyubi being Nine Tails, was practically shouting at Apollo when they discovered the white hair in the mask. Of course I did guess right about the murderer: how could it not have been that french vamp? Oh and I remember seeing a screenshot of that thief with Apollo's bracelet on and reading all this crazy speculation of him being related to Apollo... so funny to look back on it now.
Overall the whole case came together really well. I was really hyped for the game to move up in gears after this one but now I'm thinking this was a really good case, better than the last two imo.


Case 3
Spoiler:
The best in my and, from what I've read, many others opinion. The law school was a nice backdrop and it was cool to see the character twists. Robin being a girl I don't think was very obvious until she took the stand, when we first met her I kept thinking how much she looked like Apollo! And the smug 'Kristoph-esque' Hugh character I really didn't think would be such a good guy in the end. Laughed so much when he revealed his friendship neck choker. Honestly didn't see it coming.
Professor Means being the killer was not a surprise but I enjoyed his moment on the witness stand. And Athena becoming the Phoenix statue was pretty funny.
Hated Klavier's role in the case. I'm a fan of his in AJ and it was painful to see him shown in such a useless way.


Case 4
Spoiler:
Space is cool. I liked that Apollo was so involved in the case since it was his best friend who died, but it would have been better I think if we'd been able to meet Clay. Like if Apollo had got everyone together to meet his best bud and we'd heard all his dreams of going into space (he could have given a tour around the station) and how much Apollo helped him out back in their school days... and then next thing we know Clay's been murdered...? That would have been a holy sh!t moment for me.
Also I didn't really pick up on Athena being all that strange during the investigation of the space station. Surely if that place held such trauma for her then it would have been obvious, even on first play through that something was clearly up with her? Maybe I was just being dumb. I only noticed strangeness between her and Blackquill's sister (who btw, I loved).
Felt very bad that so many of Apollo's heroes turn out to be such losers. I mean Phoenix was a hobo. Kristoph turned out to be a crazy psychopath. When Starbuck turned out to have a fear of space I was just like, damn Apollo, another bubble popped.


Case 5
Spoiler:
Yeah well the villain for this one I obviously did not see coming. Who the hell did? It still doesn't make sense for me as Athena spent loads of time manipulating Fulbright, surely she must have heard his lack of emotions on at least one occasion? And all his change of faces at the end was crazy. Professor Layton crazy.
I actually though Clay was the phantom. Yeah stupid I guess. I just thought that maybe he'd faked his death (I mean stabbed through a super thick spacesuit?), with the help of whatever government/organization he was working for, if he was the spy I mean. I was just really into this idea and didn't see the Fulbright accusation coming.
Pearl's role=stupid. She doesn't look 17 either. I am glad at least one Fey was in the game but maybe it would have been better just to allude to them, like in AJ as she really wasn't at all needed in any remote way. The psyche-lock explanation didn't feel all that important, Phoenix still opened them. And god that letter. Worst letter ever. The Phoenix-Maya boat sunk the moment Phoenix called her 'good old Maya'. It's been almost a decade since the events of GS3 and they're still just friends? Just wow. Even Pearls made no reference to Phoenix being her special someone.
Oh and why was the judge able to preside over the fake trial? All the courtrooms were being used at the time which is why they had to go courtroom 4, but surely that means the judge was busy in one of the real trials going on? It would have been refreshing to see a new judge as well as making more sense.


A few other things...
Spoiler:
Didn't like the lack of actual investigation. Why couldn't we do any cool scientific stuff? Clearly Ema was needed to be around, I mean Fulbright really didn't have to be the detective on every single case. At least with Ema around we would have been able to do some actual fingerprint analysis... so annoyed in Case 4 when they brought out the powder and then DIDN'T LET US USE IT! I was all poised by my 3DS mic and everything.
Same with reassembling the statue in Case 3. That would have been a cool moment when Klavier could have made reference to Ema and her scientific investigation technique. I wanted to build me a glimmerous fop statue!
Same again with the toolbox in Case 5. I could clearly see the tools could be arranged in the space station's logo and I wanted to be the one to move them.

Spoiler:
Still don't like majority of the voice acting. They were like those bad dubs you get on movies and the reason why I'll always opt for subtitles. It's cool that they tried to do cutscenes like the Layton games but each one was too short, too over dramatic and the voice acting really didn't aide the script. So silted. Oh and Edgeworth's voice? Especially his objection was just...not good. Old man-ish and very, very English.

Spoiler:
I missed Trucy! So frustrating that she was there but not really there... I switched to Apollo in his DLC outfit and it has a little Mr Hat on his rucksack, kept thinking: man I miss the Apollo and Trucy dynamic. Wish we could have at least since one of her magic shows in a cutscene, she didn't have to be involved in a case per se, just around.


Spoiler:
Quite weird that Apollo hung out so much at the space station where Athena grew up. They're five years apart I get but I'm wondering about the timeline exactly. Just how young was Athena when she came to the station, a baby right? And she left when she was like 11? So Apollo became friends with Clay and starting hanging around when he was I imagine about 10 or 12.. shouldn't Athena have still been there?

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gems_01 wrote:
Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing.

Case 1
Spoiler:
Probably said it before but didn't think a lot of this one. The set-up for it is on a very large scale, very epic but somehow just didn't hit the mark. Maybe I'd been too spoiled for the case beforehand, what with all the trailers and artwork around of an exploding courtroom. It just didn't grab me. But a first case is nothing to judge.


Case 2
Spoiler:
I really liked the new characters in this one. The location was interesting as well, the Japanese-ness of it didn't really throw me as I've seen others comment negatively on. As the great :udgy: once said: each case takes place in its own universe so I was happy to go along with it. I totally fell for Rex Kyubi being Nine Tails, was practically shouting at Apollo when they discovered the white hair in the mask. Of course I did guess right about the murderer: how could it not have been that french vamp? Oh and I remember seeing a screenshot of that thief with Apollo's bracelet on and reading all this crazy speculation of him being related to Apollo... so funny to look back on it now.
Overall the whole case came together really well. I was really hyped for the game to move up in gears after this one but now I'm thinking this was a really good case, better than the last two imo.


Case 3
Spoiler:
The best in my and, from what I've read, many others opinion. The law school was a nice backdrop and it was cool to see the character twists. Robin being a girl I don't think was very obvious until she took the stand, when we first met her I kept thinking how much she looked like Apollo! And the smug 'Kristoph-esque' Hugh character I really didn't think would be such a good guy in the end. Laughed so much when he revealed his friendship neck choker. Honestly didn't see it coming.
Professor Means being the killer was not a surprise but I enjoyed his moment on the witness stand. And Athena becoming the Phoenix statue was pretty funny.
Hated Klavier's role in the case. I'm a fan of his in AJ and it was painful to see him shown in such a useless way.


Case 4
Spoiler:
Space is cool. I liked that Apollo was so involved in the case since it was his best friend who died, but it would have been better I think if we'd been able to meet Clay. Like if Apollo had got everyone together to meet his best bud and we'd heard all his dreams of going into space (he could have given a tour around the station) and how much Apollo helped him out back in their school days... and then next thing we know Clay's been murdered...? That would have been a holy sh!t moment for me.
Also I didn't really pick up on Athena being all that strange during the investigation of the space station. Surely if that place held such trauma for her then it would have been obvious, even on first play through that something was clearly up with her? Maybe I was just being dumb. I only noticed strangeness between her and Blackquill's sister (who btw, I loved).
Felt very bad that so many of Apollo's heroes turn out to be such losers. I mean Phoenix was a hobo. Kristoph turned out to be a crazy psychopath. When Starbuck turned out to have a fear of space I was just like, damn Apollo, another bubble popped.


Case 5
Spoiler:
Yeah well the villain for this one I obviously did not see coming. Who the hell did? It still doesn't make sense for me as Athena spent loads of time manipulating Fulbright, surely she must have heard his lack of emotions on at least one occasion? And all his change of faces at the end was crazy. Professor Layton crazy.
I actually though Clay was the phantom. Yeah stupid I guess. I just thought that maybe he'd faked his death (I mean stabbed through a super thick spacesuit?), with the help of whatever government/organization he was working for, if he was the spy I mean. I was just really into this idea and didn't see the Fulbright accusation coming.
Pearl's role=stupid. She doesn't look 17 either. I am glad at least one Fey was in the game but maybe it would have been better just to allude to them, like in AJ as she really wasn't at all needed in any remote way. The psyche-lock explanation didn't feel all that important, Phoenix still opened them. And god that letter. Worst letter ever. The Phoenix-Maya boat sunk the moment Phoenix called her 'good old Maya'. It's been almost a decade since the events of GS3 and they're still just friends? Just wow. Even Pearls made no reference to Phoenix being her special someone.
Oh and why was the judge able to preside over the fake trial? All the courtrooms were being used at the time which is why they had to go courtroom 4, but surely that means the judge was busy in one of the real trials going on? It would have been refreshing to see a new judge as well as making more sense.


A few other things...
Spoiler:
Didn't like the lack of actual investigation. Why couldn't we do any cool scientific stuff? Clearly Ema was needed to be around, I mean Fulbright really didn't have to be the detective on every single case. At least with Ema around we would have been able to do some actual fingerprint analysis... so annoyed in Case 4 when they brought out the powder and then DIDN'T LET US USE IT! I was all poised by my 3DS mic and everything.
Same with reassembling the statue in Case 3. That would have been a cool moment when Klavier could have made reference to Ema and her scientific investigation technique. I wanted to build me a glimmerous fop statue!
Same again with the toolbox in Case 5. I could clearly see the tools could be arranged in the space station's logo and I wanted to be the one to move them.

Spoiler:
Still don't like majority of the voice acting. They were like those bad dubs you get on movies and the reason why I'll always opt for subtitles. It's cool that they tried to do cutscenes like the Layton games but each one was too short, too over dramatic and the voice acting really didn't aide the script. So silted. Oh and Edgeworth's voice? Especially his objection was just...not good. Old man-ish and very, very English.

Spoiler:
I missed Trucy! So frustrating that she was there but not really there... I switched to Apollo in his DLC outfit and it has a little Mr Hat on his rucksack, kept thinking: man I miss the Apollo and Trucy dynamic. Wish we could have at least since one of her magic shows in a cutscene, she didn't have to be involved in a case per se, just around.


Spoiler:
Quite weird that Apollo hung out so much at the space station where Athena grew up. They're five years apart I get but I'm wondering about the timeline exactly. Just how young was Athena when she came to the station, a baby right? And she left when she was like 11? So Apollo became friends with Clay and starting hanging around when he was I imagine about 10 or 12.. shouldn't Athena have still been there?


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Last edited by Bolt Storm on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Removing flaming and adding warning.

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Blizdi wrote:
gems_01 wrote:
Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing.

Case 1
Spoiler:
Probably said it before but didn't think a lot of this one. The set-up for it is on a very large scale, very epic but somehow just didn't hit the mark. Maybe I'd been too spoiled for the case beforehand, what with all the trailers and artwork around of an exploding courtroom. It just didn't grab me. But a first case is nothing to judge.


Case 2
Spoiler:
I really liked the new characters in this one. The location was interesting as well, the Japanese-ness of it didn't really throw me as I've seen others comment negatively on. As the great :udgy: once said: each case takes place in its own universe so I was happy to go along with it. I totally fell for Rex Kyubi being Nine Tails, was practically shouting at Apollo when they discovered the white hair in the mask. Of course I did guess right about the murderer: how could it not have been that french vamp? Oh and I remember seeing a screenshot of that thief with Apollo's bracelet on and reading all this crazy speculation of him being related to Apollo... so funny to look back on it now.
Overall the whole case came together really well. I was really hyped for the game to move up in gears after this one but now I'm thinking this was a really good case, better than the last two imo.


Case 3
Spoiler:
The best in my and, from what I've read, many others opinion. The law school was a nice backdrop and it was cool to see the character twists. Robin being a girl I don't think was very obvious until she took the stand, when we first met her I kept thinking how much she looked like Apollo! And the smug 'Kristoph-esque' Hugh character I really didn't think would be such a good guy in the end. Laughed so much when he revealed his friendship neck choker. Honestly didn't see it coming.
Professor Means being the killer was not a surprise but I enjoyed his moment on the witness stand. And Athena becoming the Phoenix statue was pretty funny.
Hated Klavier's role in the case. I'm a fan of his in AJ and it was painful to see him shown in such a useless way.


Case 4
Spoiler:
Space is cool. I liked that Apollo was so involved in the case since it was his best friend who died, but it would have been better I think if we'd been able to meet Clay. Like if Apollo had got everyone together to meet his best bud and we'd heard all his dreams of going into space (he could have given a tour around the station) and how much Apollo helped him out back in their school days... and then next thing we know Clay's been murdered...? That would have been a holy sh!t moment for me.
Also I didn't really pick up on Athena being all that strange during the investigation of the space station. Surely if that place held such trauma for her then it would have been obvious, even on first play through that something was clearly up with her? Maybe I was just being dumb. I only noticed strangeness between her and Blackquill's sister (who btw, I loved).
Felt very bad that so many of Apollo's heroes turn out to be such losers. I mean Phoenix was a hobo. Kristoph turned out to be a crazy psychopath. When Starbuck turned out to have a fear of space I was just like, damn Apollo, another bubble popped.


Case 5
Spoiler:
Yeah well the villain for this one I obviously did not see coming. Who the hell did? It still doesn't make sense for me as Athena spent loads of time manipulating Fulbright, surely she must have heard his lack of emotions on at least one occasion? And all his change of faces at the end was crazy. Professor Layton crazy.
I actually though Clay was the phantom. Yeah stupid I guess. I just thought that maybe he'd faked his death (I mean stabbed through a super thick spacesuit?), with the help of whatever government/organization he was working for, if he was the spy I mean. I was just really into this idea and didn't see the Fulbright accusation coming.
Pearl's role=stupid. She doesn't look 17 either. I am glad at least one Fey was in the game but maybe it would have been better just to allude to them, like in AJ as she really wasn't at all needed in any remote way. The psyche-lock explanation didn't feel all that important, Phoenix still opened them. And god that letter. Worst letter ever. The Phoenix-Maya boat sunk the moment Phoenix called her 'good old Maya'. It's been almost a decade since the events of GS3 and they're still just friends? Just wow. Even Pearls made no reference to Phoenix being her special someone.
Oh and why was the judge able to preside over the fake trial? All the courtrooms were being used at the time which is why they had to go courtroom 4, but surely that means the judge was busy in one of the real trials going on? It would have been refreshing to see a new judge as well as making more sense.


A few other things...
Spoiler:
Didn't like the lack of actual investigation. Why couldn't we do any cool scientific stuff? Clearly Ema was needed to be around, I mean Fulbright really didn't have to be the detective on every single case. At least with Ema around we would have been able to do some actual fingerprint analysis... so annoyed in Case 4 when they brought out the powder and then DIDN'T LET US USE IT! I was all poised by my 3DS mic and everything.
Same with reassembling the statue in Case 3. That would have been a cool moment when Klavier could have made reference to Ema and her scientific investigation technique. I wanted to build me a glimmerous fop statue!
Same again with the toolbox in Case 5. I could clearly see the tools could be arranged in the space station's logo and I wanted to be the one to move them.

Spoiler:
Still don't like majority of the voice acting. They were like those bad dubs you get on movies and the reason why I'll always opt for subtitles. It's cool that they tried to do cutscenes like the Layton games but each one was too short, too over dramatic and the voice acting really didn't aide the script. So silted. Oh and Edgeworth's voice? Especially his objection was just...not good. Old man-ish and very, very English.

Spoiler:
I missed Trucy! So frustrating that she was there but not really there... I switched to Apollo in his DLC outfit and it has a little Mr Hat on his rucksack, kept thinking: man I miss the Apollo and Trucy dynamic. Wish we could have at least since one of her magic shows in a cutscene, she didn't have to be involved in a case per se, just around.


Spoiler:
Quite weird that Apollo hung out so much at the space station where Athena grew up. They're five years apart I get but I'm wondering about the timeline exactly. Just how young was Athena when she came to the station, a baby right? And she left when she was like 11? So Apollo became friends with Clay and starting hanging around when he was I imagine about 10 or 12.. shouldn't Athena have still been there?



After reading this, I realized how much I hate you, you WHINY LITTLE MORON


Maya was NEVER gonna be Nick's "Someone"

Klavier obviously wasn't important

Pearl was a cameo

HOLY GOD.. DON'T BE A DOUCHEBAG


Wow. That's some crazy emotion considering I don't even know you or recall having any post conversations with you before.
I think all my opinions were valid and well, they are my opinions. So you know. Do one.
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Re: GS5 Spoiler DiscussionTopic%20Title
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Blizdi wrote:
After reading this, I realized how much I hate you, you WHINY LITTLE MORON


Maya was NEVER gonna be Nick's "Someone"

Klavier obviously wasn't important

Pearl was a cameo

HOLY GOD.. DON'T BE A DOUCHEBAG


Although I agree with you, this is no way to say you disagree with someone. I agree with all of this, but wouldn't it be much better if you explained all of this without having to insult the other person?
When I look at the dictionary "Douchebag" isn't "Someone who disagrees with my opinion" neither is moron, perhaps you missued the terms?
Also, when you call someone a douchebag, perhaps you shouldn't be acting like one at the time.

This said, I agree with you. :phoenix: And all and all it isn't my business, so do as you will.
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Magic Key

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Bad Player wrote:
CormagMHFU wrote:
Spoiler:
I think that they decided to put many old characters in the game and integrate them in some cases, while also showing a brand new palette of characters. At the end, this didn't work out that well. As many said, some characters are just there, just to be there and really have no use beside dialogue.

"Many"? Have you played either of GK games? xD

This was a really necessary response. I liked where you talked about the rest of my post and even elaborated what I said wrong! I really thing you're a top notch poster and you should continue to mock people.
Almost half of the cast in GS5 was recurring. I NEVER said that this isn't this way in other GS games, I talked about how the characters are there to fill. Take Will Powers as an example. He was a recurring character that got a case in the firstgame and was a witness in the second. Good use of a character.
In GS5, they take old characters just for dialogue because the previous games did too.
If you can name me 1 recurring character that isn't only there to speak 2 lines during the whole game (Phoenix and Apollo excluced), maybe then you could have the nerve and make such a response. But after making a large post and then somebody only leaves a provocation just for the sake of "You made a post but I'm going to ignore all of it and mock you about it. How's that?"
But anyways, go on. That way you will sure get many new users; by mocking them!
Re: GS5 Spoiler DiscussionTopic%20Title

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CormagMHFU wrote:
Almost half of the cast in GS5 was recurring. I NEVER said that this isn't this way in other GS games, I talked about how the characters are there to fill. Take Will Powers as an example. He was a recurring character that got a case in the firstgame and was a witness in the second. Good use of a character.

There's 7 returning characters. That's nowhere near half of them. Three of them are major (Phoenix, Apollo, the Judge), and Edgeworth is used well, leaving only three that were kind of pointless.
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sans.

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Yipes! Calm down, everyone.

Blizdi, you've been warned about flaming in the past. That was extremely uncalled for and is not tolerated.

Cormag, I don't think BP meant it to mock you - he just meant that compared to the GK games, GS5 has a low number of returning characters. Which is true - GS5 only has 6 returning characters (7 with the judge), 4 of which are basically cameos, as opposed to say, GK2's 14.
Hey! My current life situation is [low-level internal screaming], so I may be slow to respond to things. Thanks for understanding!

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If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.
Re: GS5 Spoiler DiscussionTopic%20Title
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Yeah disagreement is fine, but personal attacks not really necessary.

As for the points Blizdi made...
A lot of people happen to ship Maya and Nick.
Klavier was in so much of the advertisement for this game, of course I was expecting him to have some kind of important role in the game.
Likewise Pearl is used in posters, and she's been an assistant before so I wasn't expecting just a cameo.

As a fan of the series, I'm entitled to feel disappointment to characters I care about not being used.
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