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GS5 Spoiler Discussion https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=27489 |
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Author: | Bolt Storm [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:31 am ] |
Post subject: | GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
In case the title didn't tip you off, SPOILER WARNING in effect for this thread. This thread is for the entire game. That being said, I do ask that for the next two weeks after release (so until August 8th), spoiler tags be used in this thread. It sounds contradictory, but I'd like to reduce the risk of anyone getting accidentally spoiled before they have a chance to play the game. Still, if you don't want to be spoiled... gidouttahere! Otherwise, post away! |
Author: | WarChild [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
We have a livestream: http://www.twitch.tv/Madoushi |
Author: | cioz [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Ash [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Okay, so I finished the game yesterday, so my initial thoughts about the game: Spoiler: |
Author: | Justice1 [ Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
I don't mind being spoiled. After reading everything, I know for certain that it's going to be good. |
Author: | jayvdale [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
cioz wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Bolt Storm [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Ash wrote: Okay, so I finished the game yesterday, so my initial thoughts about the game: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Ash [ Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Bolt Storm wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Chauzu [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Bad Player [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Bad Player [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
So I finally wrote this up. (Legal double post! :D) In a few other posts/threads, I said that even though I thought the characters and mysteries were great, for some reason I didn't really like the game, and also complained about Athena. After thinking, I decided/realized that it's because of the game's story. It's unoriginal and poorly done. Before explaining, I want to clarify on what I mean by "story." The way I see it, the game/cases can be divided into the "story" and "mystery"; the "mystery" is what you'd expect it to be, and then the "story" is everything else. This is not a precise, definite definition, but it's the best I can give. For example, the "mystery" in 1-4 is the lake "locked room" murder, while the story is Nick saving Edgey from both the current case and the demons from his past. In 1-4's case, the story and mystery are quite distinct (except for DL-6). If you remove the DL-6 part, you could change all the characters, and the murder mystery would still be fine; conversely, you could replace the lake murder with any crime, and the story is largely unaffected as long as Edgey is still the defendant. The distinction between the murder and story is not always as clear, though; for example, it's quite difficult in 2-4 to split the murder mystery from the kidnapping plot. In my opinion, however, the plot and mystery were relatively separated in GS5. Spoiler: GS5 spoilers, also includes GK2 spoilers |
Author: | linkenski [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Sounds like a legitimate analysis, and having only seen GS5 in a language I can't understand I didn't get a proper impression of the writing but I'm betting it's like in AAI, and I think the biggest issue Ace Attorney has right now is the fact that it has Takeshi Yamazaki as the lead writer. Let's face it, he's not really as talented as Shu Takumi, even if he gets most of the ideas right. A lot of the things that didn't work in his games were how his ideas were executed. In GS5 it's like he got tired of writing Phoenix character so we had to play as Athena for one of them, and Apollo for one of them, oh and Apollo for half another case when it's really strongest to have one definitive protagonist for each game that you can grow attatched to. Also I think the whole rehash of old ideas thing is true as well. I even noticed some of it in case 1. The bloody writing on the floor and it being the ID of a police-department member... case 4-3 much? |
Author: | jayvdale [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
At least you know how to read the Japanese. |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Bad Player wrote: Spoiler: GS5 spoilers, also includes GK2 spoilers Essentially, GS5 lacks what the original trilogy couldn't have possibly fallen into: formula writing. Because the trilogy has set the standard of quality throughout the series, the following games are forced to compete with its standards. It becomes more difficult to maintain originality without drifting; but this is natural as the series grows. However, GS5 has avoided drifting to the point that it is set upon a road a bit too narrow. It's not flexible. That's a recurring problem in the Investigations games too. Going through the DLC case now, I see where more of their intriguing ideas had landed. Of course, since Turnabout Return is a DLC case, the premise it's built on is much more "free" and lighthearted. Thus, there is less pressure put on the writers to make it worthy as a plot-relevant case that would impact the series' direction. Because I haven't finished it yet, I can't make judgments on how it compares to the rest of the game, but what I have seen so far, I am enjoying. |
Author: | linkenski [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
And honestly, I'd prefer it if the next main GS game had a cronological case order. I'm tired of the GK teams reuse of the Present case --> past case --> followup case --> reminiscence case --> present case formula. It would've been fine if there was 2 or 3 plot relevant cases but the other two were just complete fillers with goofy and self-contained stories. It worked really well in Trials & Tribulations for example. 3-2 and 3-3 are my favorite cases in that game actually. |
Author: | Akurossu [ Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
I just noticed that the killers in this game... *spoilers for the entire series* Spoiler: |
Author: | Ash [ Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Ah, but is Spoiler: |
Author: | plsontaesung [ Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
linkenski wrote: And honestly, I'd prefer it if the next main GS game had a cronological case order. I'm tired of the GK teams reuse of the Present case --> past case --> followup case --> reminiscence case --> present case formula. It would've been fine if there was 2 or 3 plot relevant cases but the other two were just complete fillers with goofy and self-contained stories. It worked really well in Trials & Tribulations for example. 3-2 and 3-3 are my favorite cases in that game actually. But GK2 has the cronological case order. The only 'past' case in GK2 is case 3(The Inherited Turnabout), the reminiscence case. The reason of DD case order isn't just the scenario team took GK once. |
Author: | Smithee [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | STARS Jill [ Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Smithee wrote: Spoiler: She was tossed aside like most other major characters. I doubt she'll ever come back - since it seems like she was forgotten. It's also like... Spoiler: GS4 Spoilers |
Author: | Bad Player [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
STARS Jill wrote: Smithee wrote: Spoiler: She was tossed aside like most other major characters. I doubt she'll ever come back - since it seems like she was forgotten. It's also like... Spoiler: GS4 Spoilers Well, the entire Gramarye plot was thrown away in GS5. She/it may see a return in GS6, though. |
Author: | linkenski [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
It should because I don't want another scenario that involves "A mysterious shadowy figure looming from above" (Aka Yatagarasu/Phantom) that seems to be a tendency of Takeshi Yamazaki, just like that alot of his cases are built with complexity but lack emotional intrigue. I think we should get away from big-scale tragedies and they should revert the protagonists hero-status to simply having the "ordinary protagonist" status they had when Takumi wrote them. Seriously the way either of the protagonists are portrayed, as proven by the usual gimmicks of case 1 openings, makes it feel like they're super-heroes. It's cheesy as in too cliché even for Ace Attorney imo. On a side note I also wish they'd get away from rivals that has religious/honorable traits as Lang and Blackquill. Just get back to having crimes that have something personal at stake for the protagonist or his surrounding cohorts. I feel like 5-3 was the closest we got to this even if the emotional part was more connected to the supporting roles of that episode rather than Athena herself. |
Author: | Bad Player [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
I actually loved Mikagami in GK2; her religious lawful goodness to the point of being an antagonist was great. (Plus her motivations were really unique and interesting.) The rivals were evil-for-the-sake-of-evil types in the first few games, but have all been "good guys" at heart since GS4; I think having an evil rival again would be nice. I do, however, like that Blackquill (even though he's "good") is able to consistently make logically coherent theories that implicate the accused. That's something I don't think we've seen since Edgey in the first game >_> |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Was it ever mentioned from whom Blackquill learned prosecuting? If not, I can take a pretty good guess who he takes after. |
Author: | Croik [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
K I'm late to this party but I DID beat the game! (most of the character profiles are updated to if you guys wouldn't mind taking a look to see if I butchered anything...) Overall, I was pleased with the game. It didn't unseat my favorite (JFA) but I enjoyed it, I thought the Mood Matrix was fun if a little overly gimmicky. I liked Blackquill a lot as prosecutor, Bobby as detective, and a few of the side characters stood out (especially the Tenmas). Most of the killers didn't interest me, probably because they were all given away immediately except for 5-5 (which, despite not being an original concept, had me giggling happily). Like everyone else has said, the returning characters might as well have not been there. I was especially disappointed in Trucy's role; I was really excited to see her and Phoenix team up, but it was so short lived. Poor thing didn't even make it to court! As for Athena, I'm a little mixed. I went in expecting her to be Important so I couldn't be mad at her for living up to my expectations. In general I'd say I didn't dislike her, I just wish they'd finally move away from this teen girl sidekick shtick they can't get away from. That angle is done. Spoiler: |
Author: | Bolt Storm [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
I'm curious, Croik, did you get around to playing the DLC case as well? It'll solidify more once I replay the game in English, but all-in-all I think it was my favorite case. Good characters, an interesting mystery, a fun setting and premise... in a lot of ways it feels like the developers were letting themselves have a little more freedom with it, especially with how they play with some of the series tropes. Spoiler: DLC case If it's released day 1 alongside the English version I'm curious as to how playing it chronologically (between cases 2 and 3) would affect the flow of things. Having the extra case as Phoenix and introducing Pearl and Psyche-Locks earlier might actually help alleviate a bit of the rushed feeling of 5-4 and 5-5. It would also break up the big stretch in the middle of the game where you're only playing as Apollo and Athena (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just a bit odd given Phoenix is technically the star of the game.) On the other hand, there is something kind of appropriate about Phoenix essentially only being playable for one really big, serious case (since 5-1's bombing winds up being part of 5-4 and 5-5's plot anyway), so... |
Author: | Justice1 [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: Two things, relate to AA: DD |
Author: | Jay [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | henke37 [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: !DLC |
Author: | CormagMHFU [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Bad Player [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
CormagMHFU wrote: Spoiler: "Many"? Have you played either of GK games? xD |
Author: | linkenski [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
^ What I thought too. But what's funny is that most of the cameos in the GK games work to the cases' favors, unlike in DD where mostly every cameo is useless to the plot. |
Author: | gems_01 [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing. Case 1 Spoiler: Case 2 Spoiler: Case 3 Spoiler: Case 4 Spoiler: Case 5 Spoiler: A few other things... Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Blizdi [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
gems_01 wrote: Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing. Case 1 Spoiler: Case 2 Spoiler: Case 3 Spoiler: Case 4 Spoiler: Case 5 Spoiler: A few other things... Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: Flaming, especially when totally unprovoked, is not acceptable. You've been warned about this in the past. Twenty-four hour suspension. -Bolt |
Author: | gems_01 [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Blizdi wrote: gems_01 wrote: Just completed. I am looking forward to replaying as it is a good game overall, but there are definitely things that were very disappointing. Case 1 Spoiler: Case 2 Spoiler: Case 3 Spoiler: Case 4 Spoiler: Case 5 Spoiler: A few other things... Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: Spoiler: After reading this, I realized how much I hate you, you WHINY LITTLE MORON Maya was NEVER gonna be Nick's "Someone" Klavier obviously wasn't important Pearl was a cameo HOLY GOD.. DON'T BE A DOUCHEBAG Wow. That's some crazy emotion considering I don't even know you or recall having any post conversations with you before. I think all my opinions were valid and well, they are my opinions. So you know. Do one. |
Author: | Tiagofvarela [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Blizdi wrote: After reading this, I realized how much I hate you, you WHINY LITTLE MORON Maya was NEVER gonna be Nick's "Someone" Klavier obviously wasn't important Pearl was a cameo HOLY GOD.. DON'T BE A DOUCHEBAG Although I agree with you, this is no way to say you disagree with someone. I agree with all of this, but wouldn't it be much better if you explained all of this without having to insult the other person? When I look at the dictionary "Douchebag" isn't "Someone who disagrees with my opinion" neither is moron, perhaps you missued the terms? Also, when you call someone a douchebag, perhaps you shouldn't be acting like one at the time. This said, I agree with you. And all and all it isn't my business, so do as you will. |
Author: | CormagMHFU [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Bad Player wrote: CormagMHFU wrote: Spoiler: "Many"? Have you played either of GK games? xD This was a really necessary response. I liked where you talked about the rest of my post and even elaborated what I said wrong! I really thing you're a top notch poster and you should continue to mock people. Almost half of the cast in GS5 was recurring. I NEVER said that this isn't this way in other GS games, I talked about how the characters are there to fill. Take Will Powers as an example. He was a recurring character that got a case in the firstgame and was a witness in the second. Good use of a character. In GS5, they take old characters just for dialogue because the previous games did too. If you can name me 1 recurring character that isn't only there to speak 2 lines during the whole game (Phoenix and Apollo excluced), maybe then you could have the nerve and make such a response. But after making a large post and then somebody only leaves a provocation just for the sake of "You made a post but I'm going to ignore all of it and mock you about it. How's that?" But anyways, go on. That way you will sure get many new users; by mocking them! |
Author: | M5432 [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
CormagMHFU wrote: Almost half of the cast in GS5 was recurring. I NEVER said that this isn't this way in other GS games, I talked about how the characters are there to fill. Take Will Powers as an example. He was a recurring character that got a case in the firstgame and was a witness in the second. Good use of a character. There's 7 returning characters. That's nowhere near half of them. Three of them are major (Phoenix, Apollo, the Judge), and Edgeworth is used well, leaving only three that were kind of pointless. |
Author: | Bolt Storm [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Yipes! Calm down, everyone. Blizdi, you've been warned about flaming in the past. That was extremely uncalled for and is not tolerated. Cormag, I don't think BP meant it to mock you - he just meant that compared to the GK games, GS5 has a low number of returning characters. Which is true - GS5 only has 6 returning characters (7 with the judge), 4 of which are basically cameos, as opposed to say, GK2's 14. |
Author: | gems_01 [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: GS5 Spoiler Discussion |
Yeah disagreement is fine, but personal attacks not really necessary. As for the points Blizdi made... A lot of people happen to ship Maya and Nick. Klavier was in so much of the advertisement for this game, of course I was expecting him to have some kind of important role in the game. Likewise Pearl is used in posters, and she's been an assistant before so I wasn't expecting just a cameo. As a fan of the series, I'm entitled to feel disappointment to characters I care about not being used. |
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