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Atuyhan Ihdamdhas

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This case is really amazing.
Spoiler:
Courte's policy was by far my favorite philosophy in that case, since it's the only one that's ethical. Means' policy was complete rubbish. Who would prefer winning over the truth?! Balderdash!

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Re: Case 3 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Law Philosophy
You do realize that while Courte's policy when it comes to law is the right one, its incredibly idealistic. I mean, saying that Means philosophy was completely invalid is just wrong. That exists in the world, and is very prevalent. If they just showed what is good about the law, we wouldn't have an effective game would we? And anyway, even Phoenix ignores that to a point, using false evidence to get a conviction twice. (Once directly, once indirectly)
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Case 3 is probably one of the best "filler" cases of the series (with Turnabout Reclaimed joining it).

Great characters, an interesting plot, and some genuinely touching stuff in there. Another one of those cases like 1-5 where you feel really good inside for helping all these people break the unpleasantness haunting their relationships.
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I kind of think they shouldn't have voiced Klaviers "Objection" (used the old one) and voice Means's instead. I mean, come on, Klavier objected maybe once, while Means had his fair share of objection (5, at least?)
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Call me School Bully, you little tick.

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I really liked this case too.

Spoiler:
I liked the school setting, the characters, and had a few unexpected twists and turns. I admit I suspected Means right from the start, but I think that goes without saying (I was here and there between O'Connor and even Juniper herself -- for some reason she always came across to me as a Dahlia-esque type of character). Means had a creepy-enough design as it was, but I wasn't expecting his sudden transformation in a strict and kind of terrifying schoolteacher. I've always been a fan of villains who have "true forms" that reflect their true selves. It's a shame his philosophies didn't make him more of a story-arc villain.

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I really wish Means's psychology would be somehow more closely presented instead of just "the end justifies the means" all over again.
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Sligneris wrote:
I really wish Means's psychology would be somehow more closely presented instead of just "the end justifies the means" all over again.


Well... yes, I have to agree. It was a bit wishy-washy.
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Spoiler:
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Edit: OH, MAN!!! ^

So, since spoiler-tags aren't neccessary as confirmed in the start of the thread, even though many people have used them:

I really enjoyed this case! It was good fun, and I felt like I really cared about the victim even though we didn't get to know her first hand. I liked the school setting and I adored the school's "theme"-music. I was certain of the fact that Means was guilty. It just couldn't be any of those three youngsters! And that statue-esque design of him... He just gave me the heebie-jeebies, Means, that is. I liked his clothes, though...

The friendship between the three youngsters was adorable. First I thought Hugh was an arrogant little twat, but when I got to know his reasons I just found him pitiful and endearing. Robin was awesome as well, definitely a new favourite. I thought she was a girl at first, then they started calling him a "he"... Alright, he is a boy, then... Oh no, wait, twist - Robin was a girl after all. I wasn't fond of Athena outing her like that, but I've already talked a lot about that in Robin's own thread. I really liked Juniper in this case, much more so than in the first one, here she seemed more... natural. Mature. I bet she will be a great judge one day.
And Scuttlebutt, I loved her. She was great fun and I felt rather bad for her when learning her true reasons.
The three friends' "proof of friendship" went straight to my heart. That anime-cutscene was one of very, very few I didn't find absolutely cringeworthy... until Hugh started scream-crying. That was... :sahwit-2:

I really liked Aristotele's "transformation". His hair like a Spartan helmet or something. I must admit, I didn't see THAT kind of a transformation coming (I was tired!) so I actually gasped. Creepy stuff! I waited in vain for a true breakdown, though.
Oh, and it was fun to see Klavier again.

All in all: a very nice case. I also adored case 2, which might have been my favourite thus far... Mayor Tenma... Just... Tenma. :bellboy:
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I might be the only person in the world who loved Klavier's cameo, and I hate Klavier as a character. At the very least, it's an acknowledgement by the writers that they're aware Apollo Justice happened and they aren't going to abandon it completely
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I might be the only person in the world who loved Klavier's cameo, and I hate Klavier as a character. At the very least, it's an acknowledgement by the writers that they're aware Apollo Justice happened and they aren't going to abandon it completely


Nah, it was really good seeing him in case 3, even if they were trying kind of hard to include him (famous guest prosecutor! Who'll randomly do a song with the Lamiroir costume-wearing student studying to become a judge!)

Spoiler: TR/DLC
I would have preferred he returned in the downloadable episode, because it would really show they didn't forget about AJ and Nick's disbarment.

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Sierra Mikain wrote:
Nah, it was really good seeing him in case 3, even if they were trying kind of hard to include him (famous guest prosecutor! Who'll randomly do a song with the Lamiroir costume-wearing student studying to become a judge!)

Spoiler: TR/DLC
I would have preferred he returned in the downloadable episode, because it would really show they didn't forget about AJ and Nick's disbarment.

Spoiler: DLC
But if he appeared exclusively in the DLC, people might get the idea that they're only using the DLC for cameos. But yes, I agree. Klavier would be the perfect Prosecutor for the DLC case because he loves to have a good show. Plus, it would be appropriate considering he was Nick's last opponent seven years ago and now he's his first

The problem the AA series has with reusing Prosecutors is that it makes them look pathetic, though. Klavier is a black sheep considering he doesn't even try to win, but with someone like Simon, he was beaten in court six times, only one of which he put no effort into (though I did think Simon was a very fun character and was a nice return to form with "challenging" Prosecutor). It could only help him if he sat the DLC case out
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Sierra Mikain wrote:
Nah, it was really good seeing him in case 3, even if they were trying kind of hard to include him (famous guest prosecutor! Who'll randomly do a song with the Lamiroir costume-wearing student studying to become a judge!)

Spoiler: TR/DLC
I would have preferred he returned in the downloadable episode, because it would really show they didn't forget about AJ and Nick's disbarment.

Spoiler: DLC
But if he appeared exclusively in the DLC, people might get the idea that they're only using the DLC for cameos. But yes, I agree. Klavier would be the perfect Prosecutor for the DLC case because he loves to have a good show. Plus, it would be appropriate considering he was Nick's last opponent seven years ago and now he's his first

The problem the AA series has with reusing Prosecutors is that it makes them look pathetic, though. Klavier is a black sheep considering he doesn't even try to win, but with someone like Simon, he was beaten in court six times, only one of which he put no effort into (though I did think Simon was a very fun character and was a nice return to form with "challenging" Prosecutor). It could only help him if he sat the DLC case out


Spoiler:
Oh, I didn't mean exclusively, I just meant it would make more sense if Klavier had been the one to face off against Phoenix. And it's for that reason it wouldn't feel like a cheap cameo.

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JesusMonroe wrote:
I might be the only person in the world who loved Klavier's cameo, and I hate Klavier as a character. At the very least, it's an acknowledgement by the writers that they're aware Apollo Justice happened and they aren't going to abandon it completely


I'm not so sure about that, actually. I think that a lot of people loved the cameo itself, and definitely wanted more from Klavier. But that's probably where the hate came in. He didn't appear a lot, so that was a let-down, and his personality was meh in comparison to in AJ. Also, Ema may have something to do with it... It just didn't seem right to see Klavier without Ema popping up and calling him a glimmerous fop. And then we reach the chilling conclusion: the VA for Klavier's single objection and in that cutscene. There's only one word that can describe this... "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."
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His objection was terrible, they would have done better getting a voice actor for Professor Means instead, given the amount of his objections.

Still, I don't really think his voice in the cutscene was actually all that bad, unlike everyone else. I mean, I thought there, it actually kinda fit.

Also, really, this game is so low on voice actors compared to PLvsPWAA...


Last edited by Nearavex on Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheBlackquillz wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
I might be the only person in the world who loved Klavier's cameo, and I hate Klavier as a character. At the very least, it's an acknowledgement by the writers that they're aware Apollo Justice happened and they aren't going to abandon it completely


I'm not so sure about that, actually. I think that a lot of people loved the cameo itself, and definitely wanted more from Klavier. But that's probably where the hate came in. He didn't appear a lot, so that was a let-down, and his personality was meh in comparison to in AJ. Also, Ema may have something to do with it... It just didn't seem right to see Klavier without Ema popping up and calling him a glimmerous fop. And then we reach the chilling conclusion: the VA for Klavier's single objection and in that cutscene. There's only one word that can describe this... "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

Before this game, the very last time we saw him, he announced that his band would be splitting up, as he wanted to focus more on his duties as a prosecutor. The next time we see him, he's getting the band back together for a single night. What kind of character progression is that? Not to mention
Spoiler:
that if Phoenix and Blackquill could be considered indirectly responsible for THEDARKAGEOFTHELAW (tm), then Klavier is just as responsible as them.

And honestly, Ema and Klavier not in the same room at the same time is probably the best thing that's been done for both of those characters.
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I think the bigger problem with Klavier is how his face was in all of the promotional material, and then he ended up having nothing more than a pointless cameo.
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Bad Player wrote:
I think the bigger problem with Klavier is how his face was in all of the promotional material, and then he ended up having nothing more than a pointless cameo.

I didn't know this. The only trailer I saw was the initial one that showed off the courtroom bombing and Mood Matrix and a promotional video for Blackquill (which also gave away that Apollo would be playable).
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I think the bigger problem with Klavier is how his face was in all of the promotional material, and then he ended up having nothing more than a pointless cameo.

I didn't know this. The only trailer I saw was the initial one that showed off the courtroom bombing and Mood Matrix and a promotional video for Blackquill (which also gave away that Apollo would be playable).

I didn't really either, but what place does Klavier really have in art like this?
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Bad Player wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I think the bigger problem with Klavier is how his face was in all of the promotional material, and then he ended up having nothing more than a pointless cameo.

I didn't know this. The only trailer I saw was the initial one that showed off the courtroom bombing and Mood Matrix and a promotional video for Blackquill (which also gave away that Apollo would be playable).

I didn't really either, but what place does Klavier really have in art like this?

But they chose the best slot for him, down left in a corner to take up space. :D
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I smell Capcom's grubby and needy fingers all over Dual Destinies' promotional material. I think I'll try looking out for a release date once AA6 is announced and then completely skip all the promotional stuff becuase honestly, not only did Capcom over-promise and cheat me with showing Klavier and Pearls in DD (seriously, the Mock Mock Trial's only place is to have bullshots of Klavier in court without Capcom lying about him being a prosecutor in a case) but they also showed waaaay too much of the actual plot that got my hopes in the wrong direction.

Next time, I'll try to just take the game for what it is and not what I think I can expect from its advertising.
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Just don't look at the misleading advertising and you can't get misled (and be as surprised as possible)

Anyway, there's something that bothered me about this case. The case is "broken open" when Athena proves the possibility that the recording did not say, "You're a goner!" but said, "Hugh O'Conner!" (and in the JP version, it's, "I'm going to kill you!"). Why was the possibility never brought up that the victim shouted "I'm going to kill you!/you're a goner!" at her killer? There have been other victims in the series who have tried to kill the people who ended up killing them. It seemed like a reasonable possibility that was never addressed
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I don't believe that was ever brought up. It was a female voice and the victim is female. Even the victim shouting "Hugh O'Connor!" was brought up as a possibility.

Today I found an analysis of Myriam's boxes (really).
http://hxndredsofmuses.tumblr.com/post/95391231469/i-said-i-would-do-an-analysis-of-myriams-boxes
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Oh my gosh that person has too much freetime and this is great (and very accurate)
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I liked Turnabout Academy because you get to learn more about Juniper's character whose studying to become a judge and a character I came to like it would
be neat to see her as judge in future ace attorney games
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Why does she want to become a judge? I forget.

I still want her to be a judge in the next game so she can flirt with Apollo in court :D
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I really enjoyed this case. It had a great plot, interesting characters and really kept me guessing.
Spoiler:
Means did get annoying very quickly with his "ends justifies the means" phrase but I admit I did jump a bit when he did his hair up and went all savage and scary :D :o
I thought it would have been better if he had explained everything himself in his breakdown rather than having Blackquill quickly brush over everything.
Didnt the stage costume/robe thing Robin wore look look like the one Lamiroir wore in AJ?

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I liked the case too but I really wish Klavier wasn't going to give a lecture for prosecutors class they deserve better than mr. I spout out reference to rock bands!
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Last edited by Sladetheprosecutor on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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My favourite part of this case is definitely that classroomesque trial (I do enjoy this quite silly - in a nice way - case all in all though, it's the one in DD i had most fun revisiting since I thought it was quite even). Aristotle's, ehrm, lovely notes on the chalkboard, Simon as a nonchalant little brat... and the not-so-fun doubts and insecurities of Athena, which I appreciated for entirely different reasons. It felt very realistic, like all of her anxieties.
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
My favourite part of this case is definitely that classroomesque trial (I do enjoy this quite silly - in a nice way - case all in all though, it's the one in DD i had most fun revisiting since I thought it was quite even). Aristotle's, ehrm, lovely notes on the chalkboard, Simon as a nonchalant little brat... and the not-so-fun doubts and insecurities of Athena, which I appreciated for entirely different reasons. It felt very realistic, like all of her anxieties.


Amen
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I enjoyed this case, but I sorely wished that Klavier was a bigger part of it. I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I liked Klavier as a pretty chill prosecutor from the start (Edgeworth is still my favorite prosecutor, but still as uptight as ever). I would have been much better for him to provide assistance to Apollo. I am going to follow the advice of one of the posters and just take the game at face value without any hype from the ads.
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SenorJustice-dono wrote:
I enjoyed this case, but I sorely wished that Klavier was a bigger part of it. I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I liked Klavier as a pretty chill prosecutor from the start (Edgeworth is still my favorite prosecutor, but still as uptight as ever). I would have been much better for him to provide assistance to Apollo. I am going to follow the advice of one of the posters and just take the game at face value without any hype from the ads.

Seriously though... Klavier's face is actually bigger than Edgeworth's ENTIRE BODY in this... Not to mention his face is bigger than Athena and Apollo's combined. So wouldn't that ensue that he has a larger role? Nope.
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TheBlackquillz wrote:
SenorJustice-dono wrote:
I enjoyed this case, but I sorely wished that Klavier was a bigger part of it. I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I liked Klavier as a pretty chill prosecutor from the start (Edgeworth is still my favorite prosecutor, but still as uptight as ever). I would have been much better for him to provide assistance to Apollo. I am going to follow the advice of one of the posters and just take the game at face value without any hype from the ads.

Seriously though... Klavier's face is actually bigger than Edgeworth's ENTIRE BODY in this... Not to mention his face is bigger than Athena and Apollo's combined. So wouldn't that ensue that he has a larger role? Nope.

Wow. That's pretty bad to hype up Klavier when he only appears an extended cameo when Edgeworth had a significantly bigger role than he did. Of course, advertising isn't anything if it doesn't entice anyone (with false hopes). :sadshoe:
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Do you think that Klavier was originally supposed to be the prosecutor for Case 5-3? I believe I recall Blackquill acting a lot less stoic during some parts of the trial, and combining that with Klavier's objection and artowork, you would think that he was supposed to be a prosecutor in a case during Dual Destinies. Considering that it was also Athena's first case, you'd think that Capcom would give her one of the easiest prosecutors in the game.
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Mister Gruel wrote:
Do you think that Klavier was originally supposed to be the prosecutor for Case 5-3? I believe I recall Blackquill acting a lot less stoic during some parts of the trial, and combining that with Klavier's objection and artowork, you would think that he was supposed to be a prosecutor in a case during Dual Destinies. Considering that it was also Athena's first case, you'd think that Capcom would give her one of the easiest prosecutors in the game.

Depends. It could be like they were trying to make Blackquill another Godot (who shows up in all of the cases as the prosecutor except the first one) or maybe they were trying to make the player think that Blackquill is the badguy in this game. It might also have something to do with...
Spoiler: 5-3 and 5-5
The fact that Athena has a mental breakdown in the middle of the trial thanks to Professor Means being... mean, and part of that breakdown is because there was "someone she needs to save", and that person was Blackquill. He was also the one who brought up the person who she needed to save in order to try and calm her down, so maybe that plays in with the whole ordeal.

Or maybe Edgeworth was purposely assigning Blackquill to those cases...? We may never know. :simon:
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You have a point there. Though I personally would've liked more variety in prosecutors.
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Mister Gruel wrote:
You have a point there. Though I personally would've liked more variety in prosecutors.

This, seriously. I was so hoping DD would switch out the prosecutor at least for one entire case, because while I know Blackquill is designed to be central, I felt as if they threw all their memorable tricks and moments of him into his first appearance in 5-2. IMO he should not have broken his chains as early as he did, and it felt like they tried to impress me too much with what Blackquill was capable off, too soon. I would've saved some of that, because as a result he just seemed kind of bland in the remainder of the game.
Takumi vs Yamazaki andMissile.
Re: Case 3 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Atuyhan Ihdamdhas

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Fennekin210 wrote:
Wow. That's pretty bad to hype up Klavier when he only appears an extended cameo when Edgeworth had a significantly bigger role than he did. Of course, advertising isn't anything if it doesn't entice anyone (with false hopes). :sadshoe:

At least Klav had SOME extra character development.
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Re: Case 3 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

Calm, pacified attorney

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What part of his appearance did you see as "development"?
Takumi vs Yamazaki andMissile.
Re: Case 3 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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____

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It was barely anything, and was just an excuse to put him into the case, really, but he looked up to Constance Court.

Character development at it's finest.
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