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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Are the spoiler tags for case 5 really necessary in this thread?Sigh
Anyway
Spoiler:
Was I the only one who cringed when he heard that Bobby Fullbright is dead?Phantom was obviously impersonating the original detective's personality as well,which means that there really was a guy out there who yelled in Justice we Trust all the time and tried his best to help those in need.It's a shame that such a good guy was killed by this piece of rabid scum called Phantom.
That motherfucker!In justice we trust!

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Spoiler:
I finished the game last night after staying up till like 1 in the morning... maybe not my best choice, but worth it. I LOVED THE ENDING. Anyways... I had a sudden realization when switching classes today... which gave me an idea as to the identity of the sniper.


Okay... here we go.

Spoiler:
We know for a fact that the sniper is someone who would have wanted Phantom dead. This may include the country who hired phantom in the first place. After all, if phantom were discovered, it might lead to some serious scandal for that country.


If we follow this line of reasoning, then...

Spoiler:
We must also keep in mind what the country was after. They wanted a moon rock. A moon rock. So what nation do we know of that has a fascination with space rocks, and who might have such operatives at their disposal? Why it can only be that country... that one whose use of technology is just... off."


So without further ado...

Spoiler:
the sniper who tried to kill phantom from the roof of the court house.
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Except no. They didn't care for the moon rock. The client only wanted to screw with the space program. There were no mention at all about the moon rock.
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I've only played through the Japanese, so in case I missed something, I'm okay with that.

I swear there was a mention to the possibilities that the moon rock could be used for - advances in tech or whatnot - and many countries were after the material. Whether or not those were just rumors, I'm not sure, but it does sound suspiciously like something else. Given that GT and AA are in the same universe, this may be a reference. I don't think the games are directly related in the least, but it does make an interesting point.
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[quote="AnsweringNOW"]
Spoiler: Big spoilers here!!
Was the Fulbright that worked with the crew in previous cases the real Fulbright or was it Phantom who killed him?


Spoiler:
It was the Phantom. A year prior to the events of this game, the Phantom killed him.
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I went through the early part of the investigation in case 5 again.
Spoiler:
Simon knew of the existence of an outside party involved in Metis' murder through a blackmail call. This person ordered him to take the fall. I think it was around then when he gave this mystery blackmailer the name of the "Phantom". Since I glanced through it quickly, I think I may have missed some details on why the Phantom would bother to call him at all. What did the Phantom blackmail him with anyway?

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
I went through the early part of the investigation in case 5 again.
Spoiler:
Simon knew of the existence of an outside party involved in Metis' murder through a blackmail call. This person ordered him to take the fall. I think it was around then when he gave this mystery blackmailer the name of the "Phantom". Since I glanced through it quickly, I think I may have missed some details on why the Phantom would bother to call him at all. What did the Phantom blackmail him with anyway?

Spoiler:
Hm... All I can think of is that it was about a moon rock.
But then again, I'm not sure of anything about why did the Phantom blackmailed Blackquill.

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Spoiler:
A real shame that the victim from 5-1 get little important implication to the case. I was expecting something like "shit she knew crucial info but was killed". My 2 cents
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Spoiler:
I don't think that Blackquill was blackmailed. He acted on his own to protect Athena.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Jonathan wrote:
Are the spoiler tags for case 5 really necessary in this thread?Sigh
Anyway
Spoiler:
Was I the only one who cringed when he heard that Bobby Fullbright is dead?Phantom was obviously impersonating the original detective's personality as well,which means that there really was a guy out there who yelled in Justice we Trust all the time and tried his best to help those in need.It's a shame that such a good guy was killed by this piece of rabid scum called Phantom.
That motherfucker!In justice we trust!


Spoiler:
It was SO UPSETTING

Bobby is my favourite new character and to know that I didn't just like someone who turned out to be a baddie but someone who HAD BEEN KILLED uuuuugh heartbreaking ;-;

I wanted to make a Bobby Fulbright fan thread but it'd be full of spoilers because of people talking about the phantom and people who haven't finished the game but like Bobby will be wondering why there are so many spoilers and then catch on that he must be the killer.


EDIT: I almost forgot, but the phantom's theme is AWESOME.
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Spoiler: Last boss spoiler
Was I the only one who suspected Bobby Fulbright of being a villain right from the get-go? When he shocked Blackquill, all of my doubts vanished.

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I admit
Spoiler: Bobby FullB
I had suspicions there was something more to him when I saw his glasses-push-up animation because he looks so mysterious and shady when he does it, but by the time I got to case 5 I had kinda let him go until the twist came.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
Since that part when they mention that the first people who discovered Metis' body were members of the Cosmos Center crew, I immediately started suspecting Starbuck. When the phantom took off his Fulbright mask there was brief moment when I thought "I knew it!"
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Quote:
Except no. They didn't care for the moon rock. The client only wanted to screw with the space program. There were no mention at all about the moon rock.


Spoiler:
I was going off of the text under the Fulbright character spoilers on the character section of CR. If I got that wrong... sorry.
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tb2fan wrote:
Quote:
Except no. They didn't care for the moon rock. The client only wanted to screw with the space program. There were no mention at all about the moon rock.


Spoiler:
I was going off of the text under the Fulbright character spoilers on the character section of CR. If I got that wrong... sorry.

My personal theory is that not just the moon rock, but the entire space station had nothing to do with the original intentions of whatever country employees the Phantom at all.

Spoiler:
The Phantom was probably originally involved with some dealings against the US government at some point in the past, likely where he performed some incredibly risky amazing feats of athleticism and escaped from a situation that should have been impossible to escape from. The government probably took an interest in this, as he performed some feat that any other human would have at least hesitated over. Thus they sent a list of his actions to Metis Cykes, a leading psychoanalyst, and asked her to work up an psychological profile on the Phantom.

The Phantom caught word of this somehow, and went to kill Metis Cykes in order to stop her from profiling him. But, by the time he killed her, Cykes had already sent the profile to the government. The moon rock simply happened to be nearby where Athena stabbed the Phantom, and the Phantom (and everyone else) only had an interest in it due to the fact that it had his blood on it.

The Phantom likely hid for a long time thereafter (roughly 6 years), knowing that his profile was out there, somewhere. Once Edgeworth became chief prosecutor (6 years into Blackquill's sentence), Blackquill used his connection to Edgeworth to obtain the psychological profile, and then used it as bait for the phantom. To that end, the Phantom killed Fulbright (I believe it states that Fulbright's body was found a year ago in Case 5, which would line up with this theory perfectly), and took his place in order to retrieve the profile.

The Phantom was unquestionably paranoid; the thing that led to his downfall was his fear (the one emotion that wouldn't go away in the Mood Matrix segment), and his fear comes out during his breakdown. I have no evidence to support this part of the theory, but he was probably trained from early childhood by whatever country he works for to be an emotionless spy, and he grew up with no real knowledge of who he was (Blackquill probably figured this out as well, which is why he was the one to accuse the Phantom of not knowing who he was). The fact that the Phantom didn't even know who he really was probably added to the terror behind the prospect of someone having his psychological profile; it would mean, in essence, that someone else knew more about him than he did.

Of course, this is all conjecture, because the one place where Case 5 in Dual Destinies screws up is not giving us a whole lot of information as to the motives or background of the Phantom.

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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Spoiler:
Of course, this is all conjecture, because the one place where Case 5 in Dual Destinies screws up is not giving us a whole lot of information as to the motives or background of the Phantom.

Interesting theory.
Spoiler:
But I doubt the lack of information on the Phantom counts as a "screw up". More likely, it's something to be investigated in a later case, saved for the next game because the writers haven't come up with the details yet. What's revealed in this trial is the truth behind the murders, but not anything beyond that. Motives are usually secondary to proving someone's guilt or innocence, and a character's background needs a lot more than a few moments on the stand to be properly explored. They're not always revealed at the end of a case. Since this is the Phantom we're talking about, his mission will be made clear at some point as long as Edgeworth can continue to pursue the shady organization the Phantom worked for.

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Spoiler: Case 5 villain
Did anyone else notice that, despite not feeling any emotions (aside from fear), the Phantom pretty much displayed all of the four main emotions that the Mood Matrix is designed to detect? For example, he displayed "joy" through laughter, "sadness/fear" through crying/gripping his head, "anger" with that fist pump, etc. I thought this was a pretty cool subtlety by the writers if they did that intentionally.

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Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Spoiler: Case 5 villain
Did anyone else notice that, despite not feeling any emotions (aside from fear), the Phantom pretty much displayed all of the four main emotions that the Mood Matrix is designed to detect? For example, he displayed "joy" through laughter, "sadness/fear" through crying/gripping his head, "anger" with that fist pump, etc. I thought this was a pretty cool subtlety by the writers if they did that intentionally.


Spoiler: Emotions
Er, his face certainly did, but the mood matrix was a completly different story. At first, he had no emotions, then he had all of them and then, he had the wrong emotions to correspond with his expression. Emotional wise, he had to have super exagerations of the emotions in his face since he couldn't actually feel them, and if he did, it'de be a mess, like the mood Matrix saw.
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Tiagofvarela wrote:
Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Spoiler: Case 5 villain
Did anyone else notice that, despite not feeling any emotions (aside from fear), the Phantom pretty much displayed all of the four main emotions that the Mood Matrix is designed to detect? For example, he displayed "joy" through laughter, "sadness/fear" through crying/gripping his head, "anger" with that fist pump, etc. I thought this was a pretty cool subtlety by the writers if they did that intentionally.


Spoiler: Emotions
Er, his face certainly did, but the mood matrix was a completly different story. At first, he had no emotions, then he had all of them and then, he had the wrong emotions to correspond with his expression. Emotional wise, he had to have super exagerations of the emotions in his face since he couldn't actually feel them, and if he did, it'de be a mess, like the mood Matrix saw.

Spoiler:
I think, he is talking about, how OBVIOUSLY he displays his feelings, irrelevant which case it is.
The Phantom overdid his feelings, 'cuz he isn't able to really control, his feelings (rather surpress them).
But rather than having an ":|"-Face all the time, he actually always exaggerated, not only his mimics and gestures, but also the way he talked.

Or he inpersonated the ACTUAL Bobby Fulbright.

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Coffee Prosecutor wrote:
Tiagofvarela wrote:
Mr. Bear Jew wrote:
Spoiler: Case 5 villain
Did anyone else notice that, despite not feeling any emotions (aside from fear), the Phantom pretty much displayed all of the four main emotions that the Mood Matrix is designed to detect? For example, he displayed "joy" through laughter, "sadness/fear" through crying/gripping his head, "anger" with that fist pump, etc. I thought this was a pretty cool subtlety by the writers if they did that intentionally.


Spoiler: Emotions
Er, his face certainly did, but the mood matrix was a completly different story. At first, he had no emotions, then he had all of them and then, he had the wrong emotions to correspond with his expression. Emotional wise, he had to have super exagerations of the emotions in his face since he couldn't actually feel them, and if he did, it'de be a mess, like the mood Matrix saw.

Spoiler:
I think, he is talking about, how OBVIOUSLY he displays his feelings, irrelevant which case it is.
The Phantom overdid his feelings, 'cuz he isn't able to really control, his feelings (rather surpress them).
But rather than having an ":|"-Face all the time, he actually always exaggerated, not only his mimics and gestures, but also the way he talked.

Or he inpersonated the ACTUAL Bobby Fulbright.

Spoiler:
The fact he can over-express his emotions proves that he has steady control over his emotions. However, because he's still human, there's always a trace amount of emotion left in the recesses. By expounding on it, Athena & co. could expose him for what he truly is: a mere shadow. And I'm sure he impersonated Bobby; the Phantom himself doesn't have a personality, nor does he know who he is. It's basically why there's no point to showing his real face.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Re: Case 5

Hi everyone:-)

I found Case 5 a tremendous disappointment, as there was an immense focus on Athena Cykes and her trauma. Very little focus was on Apollo's trauma, other than his issues against Athena. Phoenix was a billion percent more concerned with rescuing Athena over helping Apollo to heal, and saving his daughter. Not saying he should've ignored Athena; I just wish he would've been equally focused on Apollo and Trucy. The cute, cuddly new attorney wasn't the only one going through mental breakdowns.

The more I got into Case 5, the more' I went 'uh, what about Clay?' Phoenix never mentioned him, and if he did, I must've missed that short mention. Athena never mentioned him, as she had to recover from her own horrible, earth-shattering trauma.

I just felt Apollo, Trucy and Clay were benched in favor of the adorable, energetic attorney with a tragic past.

Wait, who's Clay again?
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I didn't really care that much about Apollo, tbh.

I felt like he was a jerk and that whole act seemed like so ridiculously forced at that moment...
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Man I was scarred when you had to choose who the phantom was, I'm out we're all out of characters

And then he pulls out the Starbuck mask and I'm like "I knew it!"
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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Man I was scarred when you had to choose who the phantom was, I'm out we're all out of characters

And then he pulls out the Starbuck mask and I'm like "I knew it!"

You might want to use spoiler tags for this one, it's a pretty damn spoily fact you just stated.
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BonnyMono wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Man I was scarred when you had to choose who the phantom was, I'm out we're all out of characters

And then he pulls out the Starbuck mask and I'm like "I knew it!"

You might want to use spoiler tags for this one, it's a pretty damn spoily fact you just stated.

This thread is marked for spoilers, so it's no problem~

(People usually use spoiler tags everywhere just in case, since the game is still relatively new, but it's fine to not use spoiler tags in threads marked as spoilers.)
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Bad Player wrote:
BonnyMono wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Man I was scarred when you had to choose who the phantom was, I'm out we're all out of characters

And then he pulls out the Starbuck mask and I'm like "I knew it!"

You might want to use spoiler tags for this one, it's a pretty damn spoily fact you just stated.

This thread is marked for spoilers, so it's no problem~

(People usually use spoiler tags everywhere just in case, since the game is still relatively new, but it's fine to not use spoiler tags in threads marked as spoilers.)


According to the main post:
Bolt Storm wrote:
They should be used when [...] or the later parts of case five.
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Okay, well... :yogi:

That was also when the game was first released in Japan. We required that everyone use spoiler tags for everything everywhere--even the thread called "Spoiler Discussion." But now the game has been out in English for a few weeks. So untagged spoilers in a spoiler-tagged thread are okay.

Also note that the first post says "should," not "must." :basil:
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@BP: Well, there are people who haven't finished the game yet. Using spoiler tags is way better than leaving the spoiler to burn people's eyes.
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BonnyMono wrote:
@BP: Well, there are people who haven't finished the game yet. Using spoiler tags is way better than leaving the spoiler to burn people's eyes.

They deserve it when they think they won't get spoiled in a thread called "Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)".
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Lusankya wrote:
BonnyMono wrote:
@BP: Well, there are people who haven't finished the game yet. Using spoiler tags is way better than leaving the spoiler to burn people's eyes.

They deserve it when they think they won't get spoiled in a thread called "Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)".

Oops, I thought it was the other thread. Terribly sorry for the inconvenience.
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BonnyMono wrote:
Lusankya wrote:
BonnyMono wrote:
@BP: Well, there are people who haven't finished the game yet. Using spoiler tags is way better than leaving the spoiler to burn people's eyes.

They deserve it when they think they won't get spoiled in a thread called "Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)".

Oops, I thought it was the other thread. Terribly sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem. With all these active DD threads running around, it can sometimes be hard to remember exactly which threads are spoiler-tagged and which ones aren't. :oops:
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Bad Player wrote:
Okay, well... :yogi:

That was also when the game was first released in Japan. We required that everyone use spoiler tags for everything everywhere--even the thread called "Spoiler Discussion." But now the game has been out in English for a few weeks. So untagged spoilers in a spoiler-tagged thread are okay.

Also note that the first post says "should," not "must." :basil:


Yes, I completly agree with you, however, when I read the main post, better be safe than sorry. :basil:

Although it says "should" it's heavily implied you are to use them, but I guess it's doesn't really make it that clear.
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I have a question:

Spoiler: Tagging just cuz'
If the statute of limitation is more than -I don't know how many- years, then why wasn't it brought up in court? And the case happened Seven years ago, the case should have been already closed and Simon executed. It's odd how they didn't refuse the retrial because of the statute of limitation.

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BonnyMono wrote:
I have a question:

Spoiler: Tagging just cuz'
If the statute of limitation is more than -I don't know how many- years, then why wasn't it brought up in court? And the case happened Seven years ago, the case should have been already closed and Simon executed. It's odd how they didn't refuse the retrial because of the statute of limitation.


Spoiler:
The statute of limitations is 15 years in the AA world (see the DL-6 case)

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It's made clear that the trial wasn't very official and the fact that it wouldn't have happened without the threat is even clearer.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
What's the space rock called in the japanese version?
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Yatta.

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Kanji wrote:
Spoiler:
What's the space rock called in the japanese version?

月の石, lit. "moon rock".
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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machinimator

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Coffee Prosecutor wrote:
I didn't really care that much about Apollo, tbh.

I felt like he was a jerk and that whole act seemed like so ridiculously forced at that moment...

I feel like the only person who actually thought Apollo's big sequence close to the ending was pretty well established and emotional.

Think of it from his perspective; you start investigating a case that's very personal to you, and then suddenly, for no apparent reason, your closest co-worker starts lying to you about pretty much EVERYTHING. They avoid questions, they say the whole place is new to them, they can't even claim they've never seen the murder weapon without letting out a tell, etc. You trust them, so you at least find a way to put it out of your head and focus on the trial.

But then there was the lighter fingerprints. And then the Lobby 2 security footage. The mere fact that Athena hid her presence *right* at the scene and time of the crime - and was never seen by anyone at the Space Center - seems enormously incriminating. She was practically like Godot being beyond the bridge, through the whole incident.

Apollo already knows Athena is very intelligent for her age, and has a mysterious past she won't talk about. Heck, who here was flat-out surprised that the facts pointed to you-know-who being the killer? It wouldn't be the first time the series has had an innocent-looking little girl be an evil mastermind, either. Apollo is a smart man, and he knows to follow the facts. Really, the only thing keeping Athena away from the top of the suspect list at that point was the player's genre-savviness. At that point, it would be really difficult to work alongside someone you VERY strongly suspect of murder.

Keep in mind; through it all, despite every piece of evidence (including his own gut talents) pointing her way, Apollo *wanted* to believe Athena. He was bringing himself a lot of pain by coming out with the accusation against her, and he certainly wasn't doing it just to look cool - he basically prompted Wright to come up with counter-arguments to him.

One thing we might never quite follow are his motivations to protect his friend Clay. I'm sure some of the player reactions might be different if Clay were a recurring character in the series, always there for Apollo.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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^This. The struggle inside Apollo's heart was handled in the best possible way, not too over the top but not completely overshadowed by the new characters' stories. Not also that, but I think his character gained a lot more depth than any other in the game, and more than he had in his own game.
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I have some (probably) dumb questions that tie into Case 5...

Spoiler:
Okay, so in the phone call that Phoenix made in the beginning of the game, he says, "Your target finally made a move." I'm guessing he was referring to the Phantom bombing the HAT-2 and whatnot?

Also, I know that Edgeworth told Phoenix to "keep an eye" on Blackquill after allowing him to prosecute cases, and I know that this was done so that they could - somehow? - work to prove his innocence. However, as the game shows, they were pretty much at the end of the line before anything was actually done. That is, if Aura hadn't taken hostages and demanded a retrial, Blackquill would have just been executed the next day without anything being done about UR-1.

I'm willing to accept that as just a contrivance of the plot - a way to make it AS TENSE AS POSSIBLE by having Blackquill acquitted the day before he's to be executed and all that - but I guess what I'm asking is: was there any semblance of a plan to fix the whole mess of Blackquill's conviction before the deus ex machina hostage situation? Haha.

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