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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
If we found that out, we might be his next victim xD


Spoiler:
Oh LOL We might as well be prepared xD

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Ash wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler:
I honestly suspected De Killer to be involved, but was sadly disappointed that no reference to him was made at all.

Spoiler:
For some reason, I can't imagine De Killer using a sniper rifle to do his deeds. He seems to work more... directly ^^

Spoiler:
Also, didn't Phantom say that he would be targeted because he knows lots of various countries'/organizations' secrets and whatnot? De Killer also seems more the type to do business with individuals, not organizations.

Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Final Boss spoiler
I've heard that the defendant for this case is Athena and then Simon. So why does it seem like they're Lawyers in the case?


Mod edit: Use preview post or actually look at what you've posted next time
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Kanji wrote:
Spoiler: Final Boss spoiler
I've heard that the defendant for this case is Athena and then Simon. So why does it seem like they're Lawyers in the case?


Spoiler:
Simon is acquitted of the charges from his trial seven years ago. Athena jumps to the defense's bench on her own.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Kanji wrote:
Spoiler: Final Boss spoiler
I've heard that the defendant for this case is Athena and then Simon. So why does it seem like they're Lawyers in the case?


Spoiler:
Simon is acquitted of the charges from his trial seven years ago. Athena jumps to the defense's bench on her own.

But why he is still in prison?
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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He isn't?
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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jayvdale wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Kanji wrote:
Spoiler: Final Boss spoiler
I've heard that the defendant for this case is Athena and then Simon. So why does it seem like they're Lawyers in the case?


Spoiler:
Simon is acquitted of the charges from his trial seven years ago. Athena jumps to the defense's bench on her own.

But why he is still in prison?

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Spoiler: Blackquill
He's not. His sister was sent to prison for taking Trucy hostage.

POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler:
Do we see her get kidnapped or is it mentioned?
Vague flashbacks to when Maya gets kidnapped.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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ApolloAvalon wrote:
Spoiler:
Do we see her get kidnapped or is it mentioned?
Vague flashbacks to when Maya gets kidnapped.

Spoiler:
She was one of several people visiting the space center that were taken hostage by robots. Phoenix and Pearl see her for a short moment on a robot's face-screen before she's pushed aside and Kaguya takes over.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I can understand how most of the characters feel after losing someone in their life.
Spoiler: Case 4
Talking to Apollo about Daichi's death: Roaring Rampage of Revenge.

Spoiler: Case 5
Talking to Athena about her mother's death: Heroic BSOD.

POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Case 5 Discussion (Spoilers)Topic%20Title
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So what did everyone think about Case 5 for me I was expecting the murderer to be Juniper cause I thought it was going to be
Spoiler: GK2
Sota Sarushiro
thing or Matt Engarde all over but no it was someone I least expected of all or heck I thought it be Blackquill's sister but that did seem a little out there though.


BP EDIT: Tagged the GK2 spoiler, and merged with the existing case 5 discussion thread.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: Case 4, Case 5, Final Villain
I've just reached Athena's trial.

So far, this case hasn't had the emotional impact I've hoped, Blackquill and Athena both have their moments, but their characters aren't really standing out in any way yet.

I am looking forward to how the rest of the case goes though, especially since, unless there's another character to still be introduced, at this point, I can't see how any one other than Fulbright can be the culprit.

There's no evidence pointing to him as of yet, but Phoenix, Apollo, Athena and Blackquill are out as suspects, Aura is extremely unpleasant, but she's risking everything to reveal the truth of UR-1. Starbuck and Cosmos have pretty much been cleared, Juniper is a little young, plus her role really seems to be to uphold the theme of friendship that is running through the game.

Fulbright is old enough, is constantly keeping an eye on Blackquill, was present in the Court during Starbuck's trial, and was the one that handed over the lighter with Athena's fingerprints.

If I'm right, that could lead to some interesting scenes...despite Athena or Blackquill seeming to hold Fulbright in rather low regard, I'm sure there would be some feelings of personal betrayal there.
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Just finished it now. Watching those credits scroll. This is kinda spoilery but...

Spoiler:
Were they hinting that Aura had romantic feelings for Athena's mother? This is an actual question, not wishful/horny thinking. I was hoping for an explanation in the credits but she doesn't even show up there, only a small shot as Starbuck heads into space. There seemed to be some implication that Aura was in love with Dr Cykes and if I had a quote for you, I'd quote it but I only just finished it a second ago. Now...studytime...

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Phoenix Soul wrote:
Spoiler: Case 4, Case 5, Final Villain
I've just reached Athena's trial.

So far, this case hasn't had the emotional impact I've hoped, Blackquill and Athena both have their moments, but their characters aren't really standing out in any way yet.

I am looking forward to how the rest of the case goes though, especially since, unless there's another character to still be introduced, at this point, I can't see how any one other than Fulbright can be the culprit.

There's no evidence pointing to him as of yet, but Phoenix, Apollo, Athena and Blackquill are out as suspects, Aura is extremely unpleasant, but she's risking everything to reveal the truth of UR-1. Starbuck and Cosmos have pretty much been cleared, Juniper is a little young, plus her role really seems to be to uphold the theme of friendship that is running through the game.

Fulbright is old enough, is constantly keeping an eye on Blackquill, was present in the Court during Starbuck's trial, and was the one that handed over the lighter with Athena's fingerprints.

If I'm right, that could lead to some interesting scenes...despite Athena or Blackquill seeming to hold Fulbright in rather low regard, I'm sure there would be some feelings of personal betrayal there.



Spoiler: Case 4 and 5
I suppose that's true it's just in Ace Attorney games sometimes true friendship is fake or could be the real thing but I wish we could've seen Clay and Apollo together in Apollo Justice on ds it would've made the game more stronger and dark as it is but that's my opinion.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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ReturnofthePhoenix wrote:
Just finished it now. Watching those credits scroll. This is kinda spoilery but...

Spoiler:
Were they hinting that Aura had romantic feelings for Athena's mother? This is an actual question, not wishful/horny thinking. I was hoping for an explanation in the credits but she doesn't even show up there, only a small shot as Starbuck heads into space. There seemed to be some implication that Aura was in love with Dr Cykes and if I had a quote for you, I'd quote it but I only just finished it a second ago. Now...studytime...

Spoiler:
I'm no shipper, but I thought the subtext was pretty obvious there. It's a shame they didn't have the guts to state it outright in an M-rated game in 2013.
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Hinchy wrote:
ReturnofthePhoenix wrote:
Just finished it now. Watching those credits scroll. This is kinda spoilery but...

Spoiler:
Were they hinting that Aura had romantic feelings for Athena's mother? This is an actual question, not wishful/horny thinking. I was hoping for an explanation in the credits but she doesn't even show up there, only a small shot as Starbuck heads into space. There seemed to be some implication that Aura was in love with Dr Cykes and if I had a quote for you, I'd quote it but I only just finished it a second ago. Now...studytime...

Spoiler:
I'm no shipper, but I thought the subtext was pretty obvious there. It's a shame they didn't have the guts to state it outright in an M-rated game in 2013.

Yeah at first I thought they were just pulling another Lana/Mia thing, but then it became more and more obvious.
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mario2000 wrote:
Hinchy wrote:
ReturnofthePhoenix wrote:
Just finished it now. Watching those credits scroll. This is kinda spoilery but...

Spoiler:
Were they hinting that Aura had romantic feelings for Athena's mother? This is an actual question, not wishful/horny thinking. I was hoping for an explanation in the credits but she doesn't even show up there, only a small shot as Starbuck heads into space. There seemed to be some implication that Aura was in love with Dr Cykes and if I had a quote for you, I'd quote it but I only just finished it a second ago. Now...studytime...

Spoiler:
I'm no shipper, but I thought the subtext was pretty obvious there. It's a shame they didn't have the guts to state it outright in an M-rated game in 2013.

Yeah at first I thought they were just pulling another Lana/Mia thing, but then it became more and more obvious.


Spoiler:
Even Phoenix pretty much went 'Did you really need to ask that?' when the Judge didn't guess in what way Aura wanted more than "respect" from Athena's mom. Combined with the fact she keeps a picture of her on her desk, her festering resentment towards Athena for 'murdering' her, and her snapping comment at Simon about how he knows exactly what her feelings were for Athena's mom, it kinda flashes in neon lights.

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The real question is
Spoiler:
whether or not it was reciprocated. They do say that Metis loved her, but it's in the same breath as when they say she loved Athena, so who knows.
Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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mario2000 wrote:
The real question is
Spoiler:
whether or not it was reciprocated. They do say that Metis loved her, but it's in the same breath as when they say she loved Athena, so who knows.


Spoiler:
I don't think Metis reciprocateda. I can't remember them stating in game anything about her "loving" Aura, even platonically. The phrase that Simon used to describe it when he was trying to pacify Aura was that Metis always "respected" her, which is what caused Aura to snap back she didn't want Metis' "respect" and that Simon knows exactly what Aura felt towards Metis.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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About the killer...

Spoiler:
Did Phantom make any actual effort to frame Athena for killing Metis or was he too concentrated on getting Metis' research on his psychological profile back and sabotaging the HAT-1 launch?
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^
Spoiler:
It seemed more like he just wanted to frame anyone and came up with his story after escaping the scene and returning. By the time he did return, Blackquill was there with a sword in hand. Straightforward from there.

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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Phoenix Soul wrote:
Spoiler: Case 4, Case 5, Final Villain
I've just reached Athena's trial.

So far, this case hasn't had the emotional impact I've hoped, Blackquill and Athena both have their moments, but their characters aren't really standing out in any way yet.

I am looking forward to how the rest of the case goes though, especially since, unless there's another character to still be introduced, at this point, I can't see how any one other than Fulbright can be the culprit.

There's no evidence pointing to him as of yet, but Phoenix, Apollo, Athena and Blackquill are out as suspects, Aura is extremely unpleasant, but she's risking everything to reveal the truth of UR-1. Starbuck and Cosmos have pretty much been cleared, Juniper is a little young, plus her role really seems to be to uphold the theme of friendship that is running through the game.

Fulbright is old enough, is constantly keeping an eye on Blackquill, was present in the Court during Starbuck's trial, and was the one that handed over the lighter with Athena's fingerprints.

If I'm right, that could lead to some interesting scenes...despite Athena or Blackquill seeming to hold Fulbright in rather low regard, I'm sure there would be some feelings of personal betrayal there.


Spoiler: Major 5-5 Spoilers
You pretty much figured it out the way I did. I started to think he could possibly be the big bad around case 3, since he was the only "new" character introduced so far that would be free to be the final villan (since Simon and Athena would obviously be innocent). I put that thought aside, however, as I truly loved Fulbright and found him to be hilarious and endearing. It wasn't until case 5 that I realized that my paranoid thoughts were true, after I had eliminated everyone else.


Hinchy wrote:
ReturnofthePhoenix wrote:
Just finished it now. Watching those credits scroll. This is kinda spoilery but...

Spoiler:
Were they hinting that Aura had romantic feelings for Athena's mother? This is an actual question, not wishful/horny thinking. I was hoping for an explanation in the credits but she doesn't even show up there, only a small shot as Starbuck heads into space. There seemed to be some implication that Aura was in love with Dr Cykes and if I had a quote for you, I'd quote it but I only just finished it a second ago. Now...studytime...

Spoiler:
I'm no shipper, but I thought the subtext was pretty obvious there. It's a shame they didn't have the guts to state it outright in an M-rated game in 2013.

Just remember the localization of this game was all but complete by the time the ESRB handed Capcom an M Rating. The localization team worked under the assumption that the game was to be rated T, which becomes more obvious when you take phrases such as "... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDGEE" into account. There was a blog post about this on Capcom's website, and when I find it I'll be sure to link it here.

And anyways, was Aura's love for Dr. Cykes actually explicit in the Japanese version? It would have been strange if Aura's feelings for her were only subtext in Japanese but outright stated in English :yuusaku:


Now, a bit more on case 5...

I thought it was a bit... strange, if not saddening to see Edgeworth prosecuting someone for the murder of their parent. Edgeworth, of ALL people, should understand just how hard it is to go through life thinking you killed your father/mother. Sure, the circumstances were slightly different - Athena was accused of first-degree murder, while Edgeworth was accused of manslaughter - but the similarities between their cases are huge. Both of them had incredibly foggy memories but managed to convince themselves they were the killers, both of them ACTUALLY hurt the culprit instead, and both of them had Phoenix arguing vehemently for their innocence even after they had confessed.

Even so, Edgeworth was acting logically and in-character. He was determined to get to the truth of the matter, and from the evidence before him he thought Athena was the culprit. In the end it worked out, and I imagine without Edgeworth's vehement prosecution Wright & Co. would have never discovered the truth.
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I'm still trying to piece together the overall setup of the crimes in Case 5, just to make sure I understand everything.

This isn't that big of a point, I guess, but it's been bugging me. Does anyone remember...

Spoiler:
...what the deal was with the photo of young Simon holding the bloodied sword in the robotics lab? More specifically, who took it? I remember reading something like it was taken "inadvertently" by someone nearby, but what were the circumstances surrounding it? Did the Phantom sneak by and take it knowing that it would be evidence of Simon's guilt? I have a hard time believing a random person would take this shot and then just...leave.

I have a feeling I probably missed or am forgetting a line where this was explained...

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.
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emimprov wrote:
I'm still trying to piece together the overall setup of the crimes in Case 5, just to make sure I understand everything.

This isn't that big of a point, I guess, but it's been bugging me. Does anyone remember...

Spoiler:
...what the deal was with the photo of young Simon holding the bloodied sword in the robotics lab? More specifically, who took it? I remember reading something like it was taken "inadvertently" by someone nearby, but what were the circumstances surrounding it? Did the Phantom sneak by and take it knowing that it would be evidence of Simon's guilt? I have a hard time believing a random person would take this shot and then just...leave.

I have a feeling I probably missed or am forgetting a line where this was explained...

Spoiler: 5-5
Wasn't it explained that a reporter (who I assume was writing an article about the space center and upcoming launch) took the photo? I imagine they went straight to the police with it - I wouldn't really want to confront anyone who was holding a katana and covered in blood.

Though that brings up the question, did Simon want to be spotted? He obviously was trying to cover for Athena (he dismantled Ponco) and was spotted twice, and had to have known about the increased security measures and cameras. He could have been planning to confess to the murder as early as when the photo was taken.

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Addikt wrote:
emimprov wrote:
I'm still trying to piece together the overall setup of the crimes in Case 5, just to make sure I understand everything.

This isn't that big of a point, I guess, but it's been bugging me. Does anyone remember...

Spoiler:
...what the deal was with the photo of young Simon holding the bloodied sword in the robotics lab? More specifically, who took it? I remember reading something like it was taken "inadvertently" by someone nearby, but what were the circumstances surrounding it? Did the Phantom sneak by and take it knowing that it would be evidence of Simon's guilt? I have a hard time believing a random person would take this shot and then just...leave.

I have a feeling I probably missed or am forgetting a line where this was explained...

Spoiler: 5-5
Wasn't it explained that a reporter (who I assume was writing an article about the space center and upcoming launch) took the photo? I imagine they went straight to the police with it - I wouldn't really want to confront anyone who was holding a katana and covered in blood.

Though that brings up the question, did Simon want to be spotted? He obviously was trying to cover for Athena (he dismantled Ponco) and was spotted twice, and had to have known about the increased security measures and cameras. He could have been planning to confess to the murder as early as when the photo was taken.


Spoiler:
Lol, good point about not wanting to confront someone with a bloody katana. Guess I wasn't really thinking there. Now that you mention it, I do remember the bit about a reporter being on the scene. Okay, that makes sense now...I guess I was more confused about the circumstances surrounding how the person could have gotten that close with how tight security was or whatever. But if they were just a reporter it wouldn't matter I suppose in terms of crossing through the security camera's path.

I think Simon was planning on taking the blame for Athena right from the beginning. After all, he bloodied the sword and thus got his fingerprints on it -- all pretty incontrovertible evidence. If all he wanted to do was deflect suspicion from Athena, he would only have had to have dismantled Ponco, the only "witness" - bloodying the sword and leaving his prints on it was a deliberate attempt to make it look like he was the murderer. He also hid Athena from the camera as he was walking by while transporting Ponco's remains in the case. Being caught by the security camera and the photographer was just more damning evidence on top of the murder weapon with his prints.

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.
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Spoiler:
I think the sword was already bloody. It was the actual murder weapon.

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Derp. You're right.

Spoiler:
For some reason I was thinking it was the utility knife...

Now, even if you apologize...I will not forgive you.
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Addikt wrote:
Even so, Edgeworth was acting logically and in-character. He was determined to get to the truth of the matter, and from the evidence before him he thought Athena was the culprit. In the end it worked out, and I imagine without Edgeworth's vehement prosecution Wright & Co. would have never discovered the truth.

You know, sometimes I wish Shu Takumi hadn't re-introduced Edgeworth into JFA because ever since that time he's been rambling about the "truth" all the time xD

I mean, he's practically a broken record at this point! :edgy:
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linkenski wrote:
Addikt wrote:
Even so, Edgeworth was acting logically and in-character. He was determined to get to the truth of the matter, and from the evidence before him he thought Athena was the culprit. In the end it worked out, and I imagine without Edgeworth's vehement prosecution Wright & Co. would have never discovered the truth.

You know, sometimes I wish Shu Takumi hadn't re-introduced Edgeworth into JFA because ever since that time he's been rambling about the "truth" all the time xD

I mean, he's practically a broken record at this point! :edgy:

And Phoenix would be a broken recording studio. How many times I have counted him repeating certain lines from past games.
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I was actually surprised they still followed the "ladder-stepladder" joke in the series.
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^ I believe the fan-demand was very high, just like I think they got a certain person's letter in the game for the same reasons.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I keep on wondering what happened to the Jurist System, though. Was it not fully implemented or was 4-4 really just an experiment of sorts?
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4-4 was just an experiment.
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Addikt wrote:
And anyways, was Aura's love for Dr. Cykes actually explicit in the Japanese version? It would have been strange if Aura's feelings for her were only subtext in Japanese but outright stated in English :yuusaku:

[/spoiler]


Hmm... didn't the robots end up calling both Aura and Metis "Mommy"? Maybe they were not just partners in research, but "co-parents" to the robots? Actually, I'm only half-serious...

I thought it was weird they went there and then... didn't. Usually there's a little room for interpretation but it seems like they were pushing for it. Celeste and Adrian seem like lukewarm acquaintances by comparison.

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Now, a bit more on case 5...

I thought it was a bit... strange, if not saddening to see Edgeworth prosecuting someone for the murder of their parent. Edgeworth, of ALL people, should understand just how hard it is to go through life thinking you killed your father/mother. Sure, the circumstances were slightly different - Athena was accused of first-degree murder, while Edgeworth was accused of manslaughter - but the similarities between their cases are huge. Both of them had incredibly foggy memories but managed to convince themselves they were the killers, both of them ACTUALLY hurt the culprit instead, and both of them had Phoenix arguing vehemently for their innocence even after they had confessed.

Even so, Edgeworth was acting logically and in-character. He was determined to get to the truth of the matter, and from the evidence before him he thought Athena was the culprit. In the end it worked out, and I imagine without Edgeworth's vehement prosecution Wright & Co. would have never discovered the truth.


I think Edgeworth did know how hard it was for Athena, but like you said, he was also determined to get to the truth. I doubt Edgeworth seriously believed Athena was the culprit, but he did need to be prepared for the possibility. Just because it turned out fine for Edgeworth is no guarantee it would be the same for Athena... even if the chance of her being guilty was ridiculously low.

It may seem like Edgeworth doesn't care, or care much, but that's not necessarily true. The courtroom is a different stage... Edgeworth has a role he must play, and he has to put on a certain face as he presents his arguments. And also, don't forget he was trying to get Blackquill's conviction overturned and the hostages freed, so he had to start with something. Even though it seems harsh, I think he trusted Phoenix to come at him with a defense that would eventually knock out the charge and get them all closer to the truth.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I was just thinking...

The reason Simon confessed to the murder of Metis is because he was defending Athena, right? Like, he just came in and there was that haunting image of Athena covered in her mother's blood. However, Simon constantly mentioned a "phantom" who has been deluding him for the past seven years. The phantom that we now know is the actual murderer. How did Simon know about this phantom?

I understand that if he did know, he would still confess because everything would point to Athena but still...how did he know? I'm sure one of you guys have the answer to that, right?

Also, I was so relieved that Bobby Fulbright was an actual person :will: ...though I was very disappointed that he was murdered a year prior to DD... :larry: If only he was just kidnapped or something...so he could appear in GS6 or GK3...

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ReturnofthePhoenix wrote:
I was just thinking...

The reason Simon confessed to the murder of Metis is because he was defending Athena, right? Like, he just came in and there was that haunting image of Athena covered in her mother's blood. However, Simon constantly mentioned a "phantom" who has been deluding him for the past seven years. The phantom that we now know is the actual murderer. How did Simon know about this phantom?

I understand that if he did know, he would still confess because everything would point to Athena but still...how did he know? I'm sure one of you guys have the answer to that, right?


Hmm... I finished the game pretty late at night so some details are fuzzy... but didn't Simon find out about the psychology report on the phantom? That was one of his reasons for working with Metis, wasn't it?
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But he obviously knew about the phantom before reading the report.
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Well, he was a prosecutor and he's 10 years older than Athena who was... IDK 8..? at the time he worked with her mom?
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It was seven years ago, so she was 11 and he was 21. Yet, he's been known as the "Twisted Samurai" for quite a long time, so I suppose he started prosecuting early.

My memory's a bit fuzzy on that too, but I don't think it was actually ever explained.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
he's been known as the "Twisted Samurai" for quite a long time, so I suppose he started prosecuting early.


Well, I'm sure he became twisted because of that event and the seven years in prison. I don't think they declared a 21 year old handsome, emo, prosecutor some name implicative of evil doings...*cough* Demon Prosecutor *cough*
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