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Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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such as Godot's theme or... Dangit, I can't even remember anything else here.

He also did Larry's theme, Athena's theme and don't forget the remix of Apollo's Objection theme.
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Unfortunately I'm not a big fan of Apollo's Objection! remix or Athena's theme (that melody... ugh, so mediocre) OR Larry's them "God make it stop!!"

There's a reason I didn't mention any of those because I don't consider them to be good or noteworthy. Athena's objection theme has a great vibe and sound to to it. Her charcter theme makes it feel like I'm watching To Love-Ru and as much as I enjoyed that anime I don't want to associate it with AA ever! but I really don't dig the melody in neither of her themes. It doesn't strike any chords with me unfortunately.

The little lounge-mix of Apollo's theme is great, however. Iwadare gets probs for that from me.
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linkenski wrote:
Unfortunately I'm not a big fan of Apollo's Objection! remix or Athena's theme (that melody... ugh, so mediocre) OR Larry's them "God make it stop!!"

There's a reason I didn't mention any of those because I don't consider them to be good or noteworthy. Athena's objection theme has a great vibe and sound to to it. Her charcter theme makes it feel like I'm watching To Love-Ru and as much as I enjoyed that anime I don't want to associate it with AA ever! but I really don't dig the melody in neither of her themes. It doesn't strike any chords with me unfortunately.

The little lounge-mix of Apollo's theme is great, however. Iwadare gets probs for that from me.

I think that explains you saying that you aren't really a fan of Iwadare's style. (I think it was on the "Won the Lawsuit!" video that Bolt uploaded.)
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Yeah. It's just in general with his style. He does make 1 or 2 great themes for each games but a lot of them feel like they got cooked up in 1 hour or less. There are just a lot of uninspired tracks in most of his OSTs and it doesn't help that he composes videogame music as if it's meant to be sung (most songs have the verse-prechorus-chorus structure) and in his recent pursuit tracks for example, it doesn't start right off the bat but it takes half a minute to get to the climactic part of it. Remember by that half minute you're likely already past the point in the game when the track plays. That's what's bugging me most about his way of doing things. But it could also just be that his music mainly doesn't strike a chord with me.

if you look at Wikipedia you can already tell he's a "quantity-artist" who makes music for several games each year. He's rushing a lot of his work.

But don't misinterpret me. I don't prefer his style, but I can't say he's a bad composer. He does make good music, but some of it I just feel like I wouldn't have done in the same way.

And more to the point, he's been there for 4 games now. I know that's more of a testament to what Capcom thinks of his talent than anything but I feel like the next Ace Attorney games should get a new one. Change is good mostly. I hated AJ's music at first but it helped imprint the overall feeling of that game into my memory but every games since AAI has given me the same lasting impression with he music. They're too similar because they're all by Iwadare and I think it's about time we get an Ace Attorney that feels more new.
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linkenski wrote:
Yeah. It's just in general with his style. He does make 1 or 2 great themes for each games but a lot of them feel like they got cooked up in 1 hour or less. There are just a lot of uninspired tracks in most of his OSTs and it doesn't help that he composes videogame music as if it's meant to be sung (most songs have the verse-prechorus-chorus structure) and in his recent pursuit tracks for example, it doesn't start right off the bat but it takes half a minute to get to the climactic part of it. Remember by that half minute you're likely already past the point in the game when the track plays. That's what's bugging me most about his way of doing things. But it could also just be that his music mainly doesn't strike a chord with me.

if you look at Wikipedia you can already tell he's a "quantity-artist" who makes music for several games each year. He's rushing a lot of his work.

But don't misinterpret me. I don't prefer his style, but I can't say he's a bad composer. He does make good music, but some of it I just feel like I wouldn't have done in the same way.

And more to the point, he's been there for 4 games now. I know that's more of a testament to what Capcom thinks of his talent than anything but I feel like the next Ace Attorney games should get a new one. Change is good mostly. I hated AJ's music at first but it helped imprint the overall feeling of that game into my memory but every games since AAI has given me the same lasting impression with he music. They're too similar because they're all by Iwadare and I think it's about time we get an Ace Attorney that feels more new.

Rushed in, eh? Well, at least he's a good rushed in composer, right?
Also, I believe he said that he starts composing after the development in an interview. (I have no idea how it's relevant but I just wanted to point it out.)
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Considering Iwadare is not a part of Capcom, and I actually think Masakasu Sugimori was that, that's probably one reason why I feel some of his tracks are lacking. I think Sugimori really captured the essence of the courtroom drama that was needed in the games and understandably it's hard to keep revamping the same themes game after game, but IMO Noriyuki Iwadare's tracks are just often weaker because there's too much showoff or filler in them. In GS5 I like a lot of the music but my overall impression isn't just a good one because most tracks are dragged down by advanced offbeat rhythyms or electric piano fills that sound empty.
In Investigation Opening 2013 I'm put off by those piano fills for example. They're just going all around the scale headed nowhere. The same goes for Trial Begins which I actually like, but it just has way too many diversions and dynamic shifts to keep the overall theme in there. It goes from its grand opening, to being quiet and relaxing to suddently boomingly loud and full of magnificence. I mean this track is going to play while we run basic procedures and brief about the case.
It's not supposed to be all over the place like it is.

Now I'm not gonna go calling myself a composer, but I do play around with writing music and I especially like trying to make themes for games. One thing I always do when I write a piece with a particular level/character/theme in mind is that I keep it focused and listening to Iwadare's music I can't help but feel he's sometimes writing without thinking/knowing how the track is gonna fit in a game.

EDIT: I sound like a snob, lol. Don't get me wrong. I do think he's a good composer and I don't consider the music in GS5 to be bad at all. It's just not nearly as good as the music in GS1 or GS4. (I even think GS2 did better :P), oh, and of course this is IMOIMOIMO
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Last edited by linkenski on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I never hated Questioned, it's Objection 2002 that just sounded, weird
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Have you heard the orchestrated version of 2002 though? I agree, it didn't work as well as the others with the in-game soundfont but I love how joyful it sounds :P
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Sorry for double post.
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Well, yes, I do like the orchestrated version, and fits well with the entire composition, but the way they constructed it in the actual game just felt wrong. Like someone else said, it sounds like the middle of a song. Objection 2002 plays in the middle of the orchestrated song. And the original MIDI version makes it sound like a happy song. Which it's not in the way I interpret it. When you find a contradiction, I don't feel like as if I should feel happy in its basic form. More like a semi-satisfied what's-gonna-happen-next-what-will-he-say-this-time feeling.
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...Everything sounds so much better in the official soundtrack <3
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It appears that the official soundtrack includes the music used in the pirate DLC case.
http://vgmdb.net/album/40637
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God bless Bolt for uploading the entire OST on his channel.
I think AA5 has the best OST in the series,although it does have a bit of an unfair advantage considering it's the biggest soundtrack in the main series.
My favorite tracks still come from T&T(Godot's theme,Trial 2004 & more) but AA5 has the overall best soundtrack.
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My nostalgia for GS1 can never make me say that, but I agree GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack. There are just some themes where me and Iwadare have differing viewpoints on how to compose or instrumentate. Overall I think PLvsAA has the better soundtrack (but mostly because it's a symphonic orchestra) but that's just me.
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linkenski wrote:
My nostalgia for GS1 can never make me say that, but I agree GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack. There are just some themes where me and Iwadare have differing viewpoints on how to compose or instrumentate. Overall I think PLvsAA has the better soundtrack (but mostly because it's a symphonic orchestra) but that's just me.


Thats why I hate your opinion... your stuck on your crappy nostalgia, you say that the first game is the best, the first game beats everything, the first game's writer is the best... ALL BECAUSE OF NOSTALGIA.. come to the real world and out of your comfort zone
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Blizdi wrote:
linkenski wrote:
My nostalgia for GS1 can never make me say that, but I agree GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack. There are just some themes where me and Iwadare have differing viewpoints on how to compose or instrumentate. Overall I think PLvsAA has the better soundtrack (but mostly because it's a symphonic orchestra) but that's just me.


Thats why I hate your opinion... your stuck on your crappy nostalgia, you say that the first game is the best, the first game beats everything, the first game's writer is the best... ALL BECAUSE OF NOSTALGIA.. come to the real world and out of your comfort zone

I don't see what's wrong with nostalgia, It's HIS opinion, you should stick with your own opinion instead of bashing other people's viewpoint on different music tastes.
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Hm.... Can someone tell me the difference in Japanese between "Noisy People" in AAI and the on in DD?
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Which one is it? DD has "Suspicious-", "Difficult-" and "Lively People"

If it has to be the equivalent to Noisy People then it's lively people. It basically sounds just as annoying but if you can't tell the difference between them you need to pay attention. They don't even have the same accord progression, and rythymically they're very different.

Blizdi wrote:
linkenski wrote:
My nostalgia for GS1 can never make me say that, but I agree GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack. There are just some themes where me and Iwadare have differing viewpoints on how to compose or instrumentate. Overall I think PLvsAA has the better soundtrack (but mostly because it's a symphonic orchestra) but that's just me.


Thats why I hate your opinion... your stuck on your crappy nostalgia, you say that the first game is the best, the first game beats everything, the first game's writer is the best... ALL BECAUSE OF NOSTALGIA.. come to the real world and out of your comfort zone

And about my opinion. It's not only about nostalgia when it comes to music. I like all the original courtroom tracks from PLvsAA more than I like many of the tracks in DD, for example, and that's a new game. It's because I prefer a certain style when it comes to composition and I'm not always fond of Iwadare's jam-band style... that's the last time I'll ever say that, but I do appreciate it whenever I hear one of his great pieces, and DD does have a fair share of those.
And if you want me to be mutual, "I hate your opinion as well". Do we really need to be hostile? If we're all like that there'd be a commentary war all over these message boards. I'm just picking on certain things i'm being critical about that doesn't mean I'm trying to offend anyone.

Did you miss the part of my post that said "I agree, GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack"?
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linkenski wrote:
My nostalgia for GS1 can never make me say that, but I agree GS5 has a pretty great soundtrack. There are just some themes where me and Iwadare have differing viewpoints on how to compose or instrumentate. Overall I think PLvsAA has the better soundtrack (but mostly because it's a symphonic orchestra) but that's just me.

I never really liked GS1's Soundtrack.
I mean yeah,it may have the best cornered theme ever(!!!),but the rest of the OST is pretty boring,objection theme included.
For me,it's GS5=T&T(cause GS5 has the unfair advantage of being way bigger)>AJ>PLvsAA>GS1>GS2.
PLvsAA has some pretty good tracks but I dislike the style.It's very laytonish,and I hate the Layton games' OSTs.
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I like most of the cinematic tracks in GS5 a lot and most of the main themes like Objection, Court Begins and Logic Trinity are some of the best in the series. I think I like Objection 2012 a tad better since I just love the original objection melody as un-melodic as it is, if that makes any sense.

I think I might've already posted my ranking somewhere else but here I go again. Currently I think it's GS1>PLvsAA>GS5>AJ>T&T>JFA>GK1>GK2

It's kinda hard to vote overall because JFA has a lot of boring tracks but I do like some of its additions like Eccentric, and T&T is mostly good but I really hated the new Court Begins theme. It was too emotional-ish. Like I said GS1 I probably just like the most because it's the first one I played, so to me all the GS1 themes are what define Phoenix Wright games for me.

PLvsAA because the new courtroom music is pretty awesome except Casting Magic maybe, and it has all these neat orchestral arrangements of GS1 themes as well <3. But I don't count the Layton part of the soundtrack in, that would be unfair... but I don't agree that the style was more Layton-y. It was a new composer to both series who wrote the soundtrack and he wrote most of the labyrinth-city music to be medival or baroque-y. Layton has a distinct vibe that's somewhat different from that.

GS5 has a lot of great tracks like I said, but some are mostly orchestral while others are synthetic, while some are just MIDI in a higher-quality soundfont. I like the mix of the first two types I mentioned but making certain tunes in MIDI just feels rushed IMO.

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linkenski wrote:
Which one is it? DD has "Suspicious-", "Difficult-" and "Lively People"

If it has to be the equivalent to Noisy People then it's lively people. It basically sounds just as annoying but if you can't tell the difference between them you need to pay attention. They don't even have the same accord progression, and rythymically they're very different.


I meant the writing. What is the difference between Japanese titles.
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linkenski wrote:
It's kinda hard to vote overall because JFA has a lot of boring tracks but I do like some of its additions like Eccentric, and T&T is mostly good but I really hated the new Court Begins theme. It was too emotional-ish. Like I said GS1 I probably just like the most because it's the first one I played, so to me all the GS1 themes are what define Phoenix Wright games for me.

. . .

GS5 has a lot of great tracks like I said, but some are mostly orchestral while others are synthetic, while some are just MIDI in a higher-quality soundfont. I like the mix of the first two types I mentioned but making certain tunes in MIDI just feels rushed IMO.

I agree that JFA had some pretty mediocre tracks, but I admit that JFA was the only AA game where I enjoyed every single Reminiscence track [even though "True Pain" is a simple melody, it just feels really powerful]. And that's where Edgeworth's "theme" came from - at least, the theme they assigned to him. It's like, the music made to fill in some of the gaps [ex. "Congratulations Everybody, Again"] wasn't very memorable, but then you had the intense mood-setting music [ex. "Hotline of Fate", "Search - Core 2002"] that you just can't seem to get out of your head. At least, to me anyway.

GS5 feels kinda the same way, so far. Maybe once I get into the game the music placement will hit home a little more, but it sort of follows Noriyuki's formula in Trials and Tribulations: the filler themes are kinda meh, the character themes pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as their personalities go, and the court themes are pretty awesome [though I was disappointed by Logic Trinity].

Pursuit ~ Ambushed and the Cross-Examination themes are such ear-worms I can't stop listening to them.
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Yeah I have to agree with that, most of it at least, though I think GS1 has hands-down the best Reminiscence tracks along with GS5. Heartbroken Maya, DL-6 Incident, Classroom Trial, the rest... they were just really simple but pertinent IMO.

GS5 has some really good ones too. They can give you the feels just by you listening to them and some are very calm/melancholic (Forgotten Friendship), while others are unsettling or eerie (Tragic Memories) they're easily the best new pieces along with the main courtroom musics. I don't like most of the investigation-phase music though, as in, I like it, but it didn't impress me or really get my attention. Core sounds good, but it just doesn't sound "Core-y" enough if you get my drift here. I liked it when the Core themes sounded mysterious and creepy (2001/2002), especially Core 2002 like you mentioned ;-) but Core 2013 is just... too jumpy and groovey IMO. It's sad because I really like it, but not as a Core track.

...Of course, I've only seen the game on a live stream, and I've heard all the tracks uploaded by bolt from the CD (thanks btw, Bolt!). Core 2013 did somewhat work in the game the way it's supposed to... I guess :(

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...[though I was disappointed by Logic Trinity].

Too bad :P
I thought it was actually the best one since the one in AJ.

As for the Logic & [insert] tracks I'd rank them like so:
1) Logic & Trick (GS1)
2) Logic Trinity (GS5)
3) Trance Logic (GS4)
4) Tricks & Gimmicks (GK1)
5) Trick Analyze (GK2)
6) Tricks & Magic (GS2/3)
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I don't really like Courtroom Lobby and Logic music somehow, but maybe because they're not that fresh on me anymore...

And ironically I somehow started to actually like Allegro, despite original disappointment.


Last edited by Sligneris on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Allegro was always good, but the lack of the Coda part means it loses some potential significance.

I think the Courtroom Lobby music and Court Begins are pretty good, but they fluxuate too much. It's like Iwadare was trying to tell a story with them, so they don't keep their momentum, and they're supposed to do that. He doesn't get the point of composing music for games. He's a good composer, but he needs more understanding in how video games work.
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linkenski wrote:
Allegro was always good, but the lack of the Coda part means it loses some potential significance.

I think the Courtroom Lobby music and Court Begins are pretty good, but they fluxuate too much. It's like Iwadare was trying to tell a story with them, so they don't keep their momentum, and they're supposed to do that. He doesn't get the point of composing music for games. He's a good composer, but he needs more understanding in how video games work.


This is why I'm glad you got blocked from Qaelios' Channel


"Trying to tell a story" SHUT UP.. NO ONE CARES IF THEY FLUXUATE
SERIOUSLY... NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR PISS ALL ATITUDE
Just die already
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Someone has anger issues, and besides who the hell blocks someone permanently from comments just because they're critical or analyzing?? I'll have you know I never ever disliked one of Qalios' videos. What's the point of leaving comments open if you only accept positivity or praise? I never just wrote a comment with the intent of offending people.

I have an opinion, and I'm not backing down because some people disagree with it.
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Whoa... Something's the matter? That's so much... drama o_o
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Yeah that got very melodramatic. Can we move on? :3
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There are some great themes for Nine-Tails Vale, Great Nine-Tails, and Space Center' Commander .

Investigation ~ Inquiry is also quite a nice theme, though I was thinking it would be somehow more location-related.


Last edited by Sligneris on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Listening to the Space Center music makes me giggle, because Segway looks so stupid in a good way. His animations are awesome.
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Blizdi wrote:
linkenski wrote:
Allegro was always good, but the lack of the Coda part means it loses some potential significance.

I think the Courtroom Lobby music and Court Begins are pretty good, but they fluxuate too much. It's like Iwadare was trying to tell a story with them, so they don't keep their momentum, and they're supposed to do that. He doesn't get the point of composing music for games. He's a good composer, but he needs more understanding in how video games work.


This is why I'm glad you got blocked from Qaelios' Channel


"Trying to tell a story" SHUT UP.. NO ONE CARES IF THEY FLUXUATE
SERIOUSLY... NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR PISS ALL ATITUDE
Just die already


Speaking of "piss-all attitudes", yours isn't appreciated. It's a videogame music discussion - take a chill pill.
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I will say that from what I've heard there is no question that the Dual Destinies OST is my favorite out of the entire series. First off, I love the new versions of the older songs. I used to think Objection 2004 was the weakest of the bunch, because even though it was a better melody than Objection 2002 it always seemed to be too "quiet" and lacked strength. They totally changed that in this version, and Phoenix's GS5 Objection has made the Objection 2004 melody my favorite of Phoenix's 3 themes. (On a side note, I know some people would have preferred to have Phoenix's objection for this game be Objection 2001, but I think it was smart they used 2004 instead. While we're all very nostalgic for Objection 2001, it reminds us of GS1, or Phoenix's first cases and rise to being a successful lawyer. It is also used when Wright is disbarred, almost accentuating that he's lost what he had gained throughout the last 3 years. By using the 2004 theme, it shows that Phoenix is back and is not the rookie but is more experienced than ever.) Apollo's Objection has always been my favorite of the whole series, and Iwadare smartly used the far superior orchestrated version he arranged for the 2006 orchestra album as the basis for the GS5 version, meaning it's better than ever. Same with Psyche-Lock 2013. The elements of Kurain Village and the ominous background noise really set up the scene well. I haven't listened to any tracks past those so I don't spoil myself.

Regarding the re-used tracks (Perceive and Klavier's theme are the only I'm aware of), it's disappointing that they didn't remake them but at least on the bright side they happen to be two of the best songs from GS4. And being someone who played AJ first, when I first hear Klavier's theme again it's going to take me back to first playing the game in 2008. Looking forward to that.

The new tracks are generally awesome. I love all of the court music with the exception of the "Court Begins" theme. The mood matrix and thought route are particularly awesome. As a fan of 80's music, I love all the electronic drums and electric guitar Iwadare used on these tracks. It adds so much character to the music. I also don't mind that they are really long and are written like a music piece - in fact, that's something I consider to be a good thing. I especially love that the OST has track beginnings and endings.

So, in, conclusion, yeah I think GS5 is the best GS soundtrack ever.
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Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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ADA McCoy wrote:
Regarding the re-used tracks (Perceive and Klavier's theme are the only I'm aware of), it's disappointing that they didn't remake them but at least on the bright side they happen to be two of the best songs from GS4. And being someone who played AJ first, when I first hear Klavier's theme again it's going to take me back to first playing the game in 2008. Looking forward to that.

For a while now, I've wondered if maybe they didn't remix those because they got shoehorned in after the GS5 soundtracks was done. Klavier seems to be forced into the game (I have nothing against him, not insinuating here) as was the Percieve feature. Again I don't know this, and nothing definitive points towards this, just wondering, because it is very questionable indeed, that they didn't bother remixing those tracks. I mean Noriyuki loves guitar solos, why wouldn't he want to arrange Guilty Love played by a real guitar?
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Spoiler: About a Certain Spirit Medium (Case 5)
I really wanted them to remake Turnabout Sisters Ballad and that they didn't play it in Maya's letter scene.

Using Trucy's theme there is just... just...

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Sligneris wrote:
Spoiler: About a Certain Spirit Medium (Case 5)
I really wanted them to remake Turnabout Sisters Ballad and that they didn't play it in Maya's letter scene.

Using Trucy's theme there is just... just...


Spoiler:
This is one of the few spoilers I accidently found out about right when the game came out, although I guess knowing this is better than waiting around for Maya to show up only to get a letter instead. That's ok, though; it makes sense they want to wait and bring back Maya in one of the later installments. By the way, I only know that the sends Nick a letter; I know nothing about the contents or context, so please don't mention any story details/anything more specific about the letter if you respond to me :edgy:

Anyway, yeah I was hoping they'd do something similar to the music box Turnabout Sisters theme from PLvsAA. But I'll reserve judgement on if the music works or not when I play the game.

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The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.
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When Bolt was uploading the game rip, I actually thought this would be my favorite GS soundtrack. After the soundtrack was officially released and I got to listen to all the songs, I ended up changing my mind.

I really love the new versions of older tracks, especially both versions of Apollo's theme. The e.guitar in the Objection ver. really gets me pumped up and makes the song finally sound complete. The original version, while a favorite of mine as well, still felt a little bit incomplete and I really enjoyed Iwadare's take on it. I also enjoyed Phoenix's and Trucy's new renditions as well.

However, the problem (for me, obviously) lies in the new tracks. There are quite a few tracks that I really don't feel like listening to. I'm sure they work well within the game's atmosphere and such, but I still felt there was some sort of inconsistency in the overall quality of the album. Not only that, but some tracks feel like scrapped songs from Grandia/Lunar. I know Iwadare's the same composer, but since I don't think that was the case of GS3, my point still stands (at least for me ;X).

In the end, I liked this soundtrack, but I thought I'd love it. In the end, I'm just looping AJ's theme in an album that contains nearly 70 tracks, which indirectly means that the new songs just didn't appeal that much to me.
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linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


I like to think of it this way...

Spoiler:
In lieu of remixing Maya's theme for a single part of the game, I think they used Trucy's theme because Trucy has, in essence, been Phoenix's Maya while he was disbarred. She was there for him to help him up when he felt down, and vice-versa. In essence, Trucy is what kept Phoenix going, so her theme overlaying Maya's letter might be a reflection of how happy it makes Phoenix feel to hear from her.

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Artemis wrote:
linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


I like to think of it this way...

Spoiler:
In lieu of remixing Maya's theme for a single part of the game, I think they used Trucy's theme because Trucy has, in essence, been Phoenix's Maya while he was disbarred. She was there for him to help him up when he felt down, and vice-versa. In essence, Trucy is what kept Phoenix going, so her theme overlaying Maya's letter might be a reflection of how happy it makes Phoenix feel to hear from her.

Spoiler: Or more like that theme...
is the official theme of the Wright Anything Agency, which Trucy had started. Of course it'd have her theme.

I'm just glad that they didn't use Athena's theme there. Now THAT would have spoiled the mood, considering where Athena was at the time.

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