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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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linkenski wrote:
Hmm... I don't know. I didn't really catch anything I thought was a major offense on my first playthrough with Nick (other than about every 3rd line of monologue of his during the trial in 5-5, not to mention "NOOOOO") but I still stand by that the investigation segments characterize him with traits of AJ:AA Nick while the trials have him be like T&T Nick. You know... maybe he'd just decided that he should keep his courtroom image, and he's just more mature and laid back when he's not in court? He knows what he did during GS1-3 brought him success so why not just put on that mask whenever he's in court?

Yeah, definitely. I won't argue that. But keep in mind that's the same for every character (besides Athena). For example, Apollo always tries to act more professional than he really is inside a courtroom to impress people (or maybe upstage Klavier hehehe). Edgeworth acts as rigorous in the courtroom as he does while investigating, but while investigating he allows himself to sucumb more to the buffoonery of others

Phoenix could also be laid back because he's a Dad now. I'm sure he has a lot of snark towards Trucy (which he also carries towards Apollo). I have headcanon that Phoenix frequently uses Dad jokes

Phoenix: Wow! How did you know which card I had?
Trucy: That's easy, Daddy! I'm magic!
Phoenix: Hi, Magic! I'm Phoenix!
Trucy: -_-

And that's not the kind of attitude Phoenix can carry into a courtroom
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Here's my two cents on Phoenix...

The thing is, when you're playing the game as Apollo or Athena, Phoenix seems really experienced and helpful. But when you're actually playing as Phoenix, he seems less experienced - more like a newbie than a lawyer who got his badge BACK. At some times, he seemed like a complete idiot, but at other times, he seems like the very best that no lawyer ever was. :shoe: But anyway, I didn't even bother reading through the other posts before posting this, so if someone else already mentioned this... Hats off to you. :neil:
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TheBlackquillz wrote:
Here's my two cents on Phoenix...

The thing is, when you're playing the game as Apollo or Athena, Phoenix seems really experienced and helpful. But when you're actually playing as Phoenix, he seems less experienced - more like a newbie than a lawyer who got his badge BACK. At some times, he seemed like a complete idiot, but at other times, he seems like the very best that no lawyer ever was. :shoe: But anyway, I didn't even bother reading through the other posts before posting this, so if someone else already mentioned this... Hats off to you. :neil:


Nah that seems to be a lot of how they play him to me.

Perhaps he's just really good at putting on a poker face in front of his subordinates. :hobohodo:
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That's likely. I mean, do you act like your real self and speak your thoughts around people who look up to you that you need to act professionally around?
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That explains everyone's problems with Phoenix's personality so well, oh my god.
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They should have evolved his character like they did with Edgeworth. They did Edgeworth right. I think though that because the game had three protagonist's that it took away from Phoenix's character.
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By the way why wasn't the office made to look it did in the original trilogy after he got his badge back?
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Kevin Ace Attorney wrote:
By the way why wasn't the office made to look it did in the original trilogy after he got his badge back?


Well they still need to store all of Trucy's stuff somewhere, she still works after all (presumably though we hardly see her).
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Kevin Ace Attorney wrote:
They should have evolved his character like they did with Edgeworth. They did Edgeworth right. I think though that because the game had three protagonist's that it took away from Phoenix's character.

There are very few three-dimensional characters in Ace Attorney. Phoenix is one of them
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Kevin Ace Attorney wrote:
By the way why wasn't the office made to look it did in the original trilogy after he got his badge back?

Nah, it looks cool now. You know, the beanie is on the trophy and there are papers on the table.

It's a full-fledged law office now. Magical law office.
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I admit I was a little disappointed that they didn't change the actual furniture and placement inside WAA in DD. I think making it look exactly like in AJAA was kind of unecessary since Wright had cleaned up his mess figuratively speaking and it would be more fitting if the office was also cleaned up a bit, plus it would make DD stand out more as sort of the next chapter for the franchise. I'm probably being a bit over-analytical here but I'd much prefer it like so.
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Nearavex wrote:
Kevin Ace Attorney wrote:
By the way why wasn't the office made to look it did in the original trilogy after he got his badge back?

Nah, it looks cool now. You know, the beanie is on the trophy and there are papers on the table.

It's a full-fledged law office now. Magical law office.

It is a MESS. Maya knows it's a mess even when she doesn't stop by. She sends Pearl there ever so often to "help" with cleanup. Pearl is just nice enough to do everything for them.

But even cute little spirit medium assistants have their limits. In a matter of MINUTES, the office goes from sparkling-clean to having clothes, accessories, and props thrown around on the sofa, the floor, the desks... and that is it. Oh, how she scolded them for spoiling her hard work (at the end of DD).

But you know what? Trucy can get away with keeping her props there. She's in showbiz, so she needs her things on the double. It'd be inconvenient to always have to stop by her apartment to fetch things.

At least they keep Charley spotless. Mia's ghost would haunt them for eternity and thereafter if they didn't.
Just for the record, I keep my place half-and-half so I can enjoy the convenience of being sloppy and the respect of being tidy at the same time.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
At least they keep Charley spotless. Mia's ghost would haunt them for eternity and thereafter if they didn't

They moved him from his usual spot though, since the Fey & Co.
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I assumed Fey and Co and WAA were the same location that just went through several renovations

Last edited by JesusMonroe on Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I assumed Fey and Co and WAA was the same location that just went through several renovations


Wait are people saying that's not the case? I thought it was a given.
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I assumed Nearavex was, unless I just misread his post
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They moved him from his usual spot though, since the Fey & Co.

"Since the Fey and Co" seems to imply its no longer there
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He's just saying Charley was moved from his place back when the place was still called "Fey & Co." Well, they had to bring in a piano, so some things had to be rearranged.

Charley was moved closer to the door. He has been promoted to the welcoming committee.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
He's just saying Charley was moved from his place back when the place was still called "Fey & Co." Well, they had to bring in a piano, so some things had to be rearranged.

Charley was moved closer to the door. He has been promoted to the welcoming committee.

It's actually a pretty terrible place for a plant if you think about it. People burst through the door everyday. Someone is going to shatter Charley eventually
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
He's just saying Charley was moved from his place back when the place was still called "Fey & Co." Well, they had to bring in a piano, so some things had to be rearranged.

Charley was moved closer to the door. He has been promoted to the welcoming committee.

It's actually a pretty terrible place for a plant if you think about it. People burst through the door everyday. Someone is going to shatter Charley eventually

The only ones who "burst through the door everyday" are the three kids who work here. If any of them knocked Charley over, they're going to get their pay cut... if he actually pays them.

And believe me, sir, plants do not "shatter". Their cells are surrounded by cellulose, one of the most structurally firm organic compounds on the face of the earth. And since Charley, as a healthy Australian palm lily, has aged a good 10+ years and is in no condition to snap. (Apparently, life expectancy for Cordyline stricta ranges 40 - 150 years and grow pretty darn fast.)

I'm going to throw out a guess and say Charley is about 7 years older than Nick. 7 is a pretty recurring number 'round these parts.
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That would make him exactly as old as Diego and 4 years older than Mia herself. Talk about accompanying young kittens.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
The only ones who "burst through the door everyday" are the three kids who work here. If any of them knocked Charley over, they're going to get their pay cut... if he actually pays them.

Defense Attorneys never get paid
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And believe me, sir, plants do not "shatter". Their cells are surrounded by cellulose, one of the most structurally firm organic compounds on the face of the earth. And since Charley, as a healthy Australian palm lily, has aged a good 10+ years and is in no condition to snap. (Apparently, life expectancy for Cordyline stricta ranges 40 - 150 years and grow pretty darn fast.)

I'm going to throw out a guess and say Charley is about 7 years older than Nick. 7 is a pretty recurring number 'round these parts.

Erm...I should've said the flower pot would shatter
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Nearavex wrote:
That would make him exactly as old as Diego and 4 years older than Mia herself. Talk about accompanying young kittens.

New headcanon: Mia kidnapped Charley from Grossberg's office when she left and so Grossberg was left with that tiny shrub. No wonder Diego was so pissed. He was so pissed that, even though he couldn't blame a plant, he decided to blame the future owner.

And JM, that pot didn't crack when White knocked it over while he was chasing Mia.
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For people (like me) who though Phoenix's role in DD was not central: http://aoidaichi.tumblr.com/post/66657704059/shit-you-all-need-to-realize-about-phoenix-and
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That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before
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JesusMonroe wrote:
That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before


Eh...if they call it "Phoenix Wright" on the box he should be the focus, not the (as the article states) "most understated of the whole game".

I'm not saying there was nothing for Nick and Apollo but what was there should've been more prominent. If Phoenix is the main character, we shouldn't need an article coming out MONTHS after the game's release telling us "hey actually Nick was important, didn't you get it?" to let us see that.
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Pierre wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before


Eh...if they call it "Phoenix Wright" on the box he should be the focus, not the (as the article states) "most understated of the whole game".

I'm not saying there was nothing for Nick and Apollo but what was there should've been more prominent. If Phoenix is the main character, we shouldn't need an article coming out MONTHS after the game's release telling us "hey actually Nick was important, didn't you get it?" to let us see that.

It wasn't really the article making me realize that Nick actually was important. Moreso, I appreciated the writing of the game with the way Phoenix acted as a mentor and Apollo and Athena's different interactions with him. Athena still feels shoehorned, but it is interesting how she's there to be the eyepiece for Apollo's character

Also, keep in mind that the game is called "Turnabout Trial 5." That's it. When it's localized, the title has to change and the series always gives the title to the playable character (or main playable, as T&T isn't called "Mia and Phoenix: Ace Attorneys"). Even without the DLC, Phoenix has the lionshare of the cases with 50% going to him, 30% to Apollo, and 20% to Athena (it gets even more skewed with DLC, becoming 58%-25%-17%. The math also isn't perfect because Apollo moreso had 1.25 cases than 1.5)

Call it misleading advertising if you want, but the US games have always had a character in the title and Phoenix makes the most sense to get it since he's playable the most. Yes, the game focuses on Athena more than Phoenix, but we don't call GS4 "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney" or GS3 "Fey Clan: Ace Attorney"
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Pierre wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before


Eh...if they call it "Phoenix Wright" on the box he should be the focus, not the (as the article states) "most understated of the whole game".

I'm not saying there was nothing for Nick and Apollo but what was there should've been more prominent. If Phoenix is the main character, we shouldn't need an article coming out MONTHS after the game's release telling us "hey actually Nick was important, didn't you get it?" to let us see that.

It wasn't really the article making me realize that Nick actually was important. Moreso, I appreciated the writing of the game with the way Phoenix acted as a mentor and Apollo and Athena's different interactions with him. Athena still feels shoehorned, but it is interesting how she's there to be the eyepiece for Apollo's character

Also, keep in mind that the game is called "Turnabout Trial 5." That's it. When it's localized, the title has to change and the series always gives the title to the playable character (or main playable, as T&T isn't called "Mia and Phoenix: Ace Attorneys"). Even without the DLC, Phoenix has the lionshare of the cases with 50% going to him, 30% to Apollo, and 20% to Athena (it gets even more skewed with DLC, becoming 58%-25%-17%. The math also isn't perfect because Apollo moreso had 1.25 cases than 1.5)

Call it misleading advertising if you want, but the US games have always had a character in the title and Phoenix makes the most sense to get it since he's playable the most. Yes, the game focuses on Athena more than Phoenix, but we don't call GS4 "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney" or GS3 "Fey Clan: Ace Attorney"



Fine I will and that's BAD and it works against my enjoyment of the game and appreciation of Capcom.
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JesusMonroe wrote:
That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before


Spoiler:
Eh, I still don't get why Phoenix's and Blackquill's "crimes" are more significant than the things that happened before, ushering in the DAotL

Well, Blackquill's trial was rushed and left a lot of loose ends... loose. It was a farce even by Ace Attorney standards.

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MBr wrote:

Spoiler:
Eh, I still don't get why Phoenix's and Blackquill's "crimes" are more significant than the things that happened before, ushering in the DAotL

Well, Blackquill's trial was rushed and left a lot of loose ends... loose. It was a farce even by Ace Attorney standards.


Spoiler:
Well,Phoenix was a famous defense attorney and I guess he was somewhat respected,so people would be shocked to find out that he had forged evidence.No idea why Blackquill's woulb be so shocking,though.

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Spoiler:
Can't find the post but Sierra theorized it was because they were so young. Old prosecutors and defense attorneys were the norm so corruption was "just the way it is." Phoenix and Blackquill inspired hope that things could change and their disbarment/arrest dashed those hopes and trust in the legal system


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JesusMonroe wrote:
Also, keep in mind that the game is called "Turnabout Trial 5." That's it. When it's localized, the title has to change and the series always gives the title to the playable character (or main playable, as T&T isn't called "Mia and Phoenix: Ace Attorneys"). Even without the DLC, Phoenix has the lionshare of the cases with 50% going to him, 30% to Apollo, and 20% to Athena (it gets even more skewed with DLC, becoming 58%-25%-17%. The math also isn't perfect because Apollo moreso had 1.25 cases than 1.5)

Call it misleading advertising if you want, but the US games have always had a character in the title and Phoenix makes the most sense to get it since he's playable the most. Yes, the game focuses on Athena more than Phoenix, but we don't call GS4 "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney" or GS3 "Fey Clan: Ace Attorney"

But, but the colors in the titles! Blue is for Nick and red is for Apollo and purple is for Edgey! Are you saying all this time I was wrong!? DX So, what do the number colors mean...?

Anyway, while GS5 was split among the views of multiple characters, the focus was always on Nick and his legacy. Even through Apollo and Athena's eyes, we can picture Nick temporarily being placed in their shoes instead. He's the one who controls their minds and all. And then Apollo went rogue and Athena got herself arrested and who else but him would come to save the day?

And so was it Monday.

MBr wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
That article actually made me appreciate Dual Destinies a lot more

And don't kill me, but while I still don't think it was handled as well as it could've been, I have warmed up to the DaotL more than before


Spoiler:
Eh, I still don't get why Phoenix's and Blackquill's "crimes" are more significant than the things that happened before, ushering in the DAotL

Well, Blackquill's trial was rushed and left a lot of loose ends... loose. It was a farce even by Ace Attorney standards.

The DAotL is the farce, but at least it performed its primary duty as the setup well enough. As much as I can complain about its nonsense, it still set the atmosphere and possible premise for the next one.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
But, but the colors in the titles! Blue is for Nick and red is for Apollo and purple is for Edgey! Are you saying all this time I was wrong!? DX So, what do the number colors mean...?

Anyway, while GS5 was split among the views of multiple characters, the focus was always on Nick and his legacy. Even through Apollo and Athena's eyes, we can picture Nick temporarily being placed in their shoes instead. He's the one who controls their minds and all. And then Apollo went rogue and Athena got herself arrested and who else but him would come to save the day?

And so was it Monday.

You know, I never really associated characters with colors. I always thought it was the game itself. AA is light blue, JFA and AAI2 are pink, T&T is green, AAI is purple, and DD is dark blue. I don't know why I think this. Maybe the covers to the games?

But, yes. You're right. Also, people always say Dual Destinies refers to Simon/Phoenix or Athena/Simon but it can also mean Apollo/Athena, considering they're the ones who are going to continue Phoenix's legacy on two different paths. (So, in a way, the title to the game does mention all three characters)

And Pierre, I didn't really pay much mind to the advertising for Dual Destinies but I do believe it was made clear that there would be multiple playable characters, so I don't think Capcom was trying to mislead anyone in that regard. Athena was also the focus of a lot of advertising. That's kind of what I was trying to say, so I think Capcom was pretty honest there (advertising that the game has five cases on the other hand...)
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Pierre wrote:
I'm not saying there was nothing for Nick and Apollo but what was there should've been more prominent. If Phoenix is the main character, we shouldn't need an article coming out MONTHS after the game's release telling us "hey actually Nick was important, didn't you get it?" to let us see that.

Technically, that article was posted less than 1 month after the game's Western release.
(Not sure why I feel like pointing that out as it doesn't really address the issue, I know)
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Jozerick wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I'm not saying there was nothing for Nick and Apollo but what was there should've been more prominent. If Phoenix is the main character, we shouldn't need an article coming out MONTHS after the game's release telling us "hey actually Nick was important, didn't you get it?" to let us see that.

Technically, that article was posted less than 1 month after the game's Western release.
(Not sure why I feel like pointing that out as it doesn't really address the issue, I know)


Ah fair point, but yes I suppose the crux of the issue is, they didn't make the points in the article clear enough in the game to many.

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But, yes. You're right. Also, people always say Dual Destinies refers to Simon/Phoenix or Athena/Simon but it can also mean Apollo/Athena, considering they're the ones who are going to continue Phoenix's legacy on two different paths. (So, in a way, the title to the game does mention all three characters)

And Pierre, I didn't really pay much mind to the advertising for Dual Destinies but I do believe it was made clear that there would be multiple playable characters, so I don't think Capcom was trying to mislead anyone in that regard. Athena was also the focus of a lot of advertising. That's kind of what I was trying to say, so I think Capcom was pretty honest there (advertising that the game has five cases on the other hand...)


Actually I wouldn't say Athena was the focus of a 'lot' of advertising. A lot of it went to the sheer bombshell that Nick had his badge back. In fact I remember people being confused as to whether Athena was playable right up until the game came out. There were screenshots of her behind the bench but they seemed to be from the aide's spot rather than the main lawyer so people weren't sure.

Also people TOTALLY did associate the colours as a hint to what lawyers would star when the title logo first was released.
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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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If people think Phoenix is acting too goofy, they should just put his Feenie outfit on and suddenly everything makes more sense.
I am contributing important things to this discussion.
On the actual topic, I liked Phoenix as more of a secondary character in his mentor like role than to actually play as him in DD. Watching him coach Apollo and Athena was so different compared to his previous roles, so it really stood out to me. In court though, I found him generally tolerable, but just not as interesting as he was in previous games, especially compared to Apollo and heck even Athena when they were in court.
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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Apollon wrote:
If people think Phoenix is acting too goofy, they should just put his Feenie outfit on and suddenly everything makes more sense.
I am contributing important things to this discussion.
On the actual topic, I liked Phoenix as more of a secondary character in his mentor like role than to actually play as him in DD. Watching him coach Apollo and Athena was so different compared to his previous roles, so it really stood out to me. In court though, I found him generally tolerable, but just not as interesting as he was in previous games, especially compared to Apollo and heck even Athena when they were in court.

I liked him as the mentor as well, but to be honest, they could've made his characterization much, much more consistent between the segments in which play as PW and those where you're watching him in 2nd person.
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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I really don't like how they dealt with Phoenix in this game.

The biggest problem I have, that has been brought up before, is how similar he is to his greenhorn self in court. In 5-5, it's like they're beating you over the head with how many over the top "NOOOOOOOO!"s they can throw in. We have seen this kind of banter between Phoenix and Edgeworth before...I think it would have been much more interesting to see the seasoned Phoenix Wright who has went through a bunch of crap over the past eight years go up against his lifelong rival, than to have Phoenix pretty much retconned. I'll let the cat out of the bag and say that yeah, I prefer GS4!Phoenix to any other. I know his change is pretty controversial but I have always felt it made perfect sense for Phoenix to be like that. He's not the same Phoenix that we left at the end of 3-5. He lost his attorney's badge, became a father, became a "pianist"/unbeatable poker player, and possibly became an alcoholic ("grape juice"....yeah, sure). Not to mention he spent that time gathering evidence and getting everything set up for 4-4. But even so, with all his character changes, it's obvious that he's at heart, still Nick. His relentless quest for the truth to be brought to light, even if it just makes his bad reputation even worse, is a trait I feel has always been a part of him. He doesn't need to be sweating bullets and bluffing his way through trials for that part of him to return, because it never went away. Like others have said his abrupt change back to how he used to be doesn't flow at all. The fact that they just decided to retcon GS4!Phoenix as well as conveniently ignore so many things from GS4 really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

In investigations he still retained a small sense of mystery and definitely felt like a mentor. But once you get behind the defence's bench playing as him...ooh boy. It was hard for me to sit through, to be honest.

I also felt as though his relationship with Trucy in this game was insincere. I'm not implying that Phoenix himself was being insincere, but that they were lazy with their father-daughter relationship and it felt written in a way that was just...superficial. As if they forgot that Phoenix was her father, and added it last minute. Although I hate how they used (or in fact, wasted) Trucy in this game and I feel like she a shell of her former self. It's like, "Yeah this is totally Trucy, she mentions her magic panties practically every time she shows up, see? Isn't she cute?" :sillytrucy: It felt forced and something seemed missing from her. But that's off topic.

(Also...I hope that it's okay to post in this thread despite the last post being from early August. It's been a while since I've been here, as long as I revive a thread with something relevant it's okay, right?)
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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I firmly believe the Yamzaki just didn't know how to handle Trucy's implementation in DD. They kept her to not piss off fans but they were too lazy to analyse her character in AJ properly so they flanderized her into a "Magic Panties" one-liner toy.
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Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I wouldn't say it is so - to me, she was completely in-character - she just wasn't really too involved in the whole thing.
Re: Phoenix's character (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I would have liked seeing Phoenix spend more time with Trucy when we play as him. When you present the Shipshape Aquarium flyer to Trucy, you get this:

Phoenix: I think your magic show is fine just as it is.

Trucy: Thanks, Daddy! But I'd like to do an underwater magic show someday, too. For example, I'd love to do one of those underwater escape acts!

Phoenix: Absolutely not! Too dangerous!

Please have more interactions like this. Daddy Nick is adorable.

Spoiler: 5-5
And then we investigate with her for a bit, and then she gets kidnapped, but Phoenix (and the player) is more occupied with defending Athena. 2-4 this ain't.


I'm not really sure what to think about Phoenix still acting like a rookie. He hasn't practiced in 7 years, but at the same time he's had plenty of experience in the first 3 years.
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