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Episode four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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This is the discussion thread for DGS episode four, "The Adventure of the Clouded Kokoro"! Please use spoiler tags when discussing any plot points of the episode that haven't been officially announced.
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I've barely begun this case, but I can at least say... "Dude, do those fries, er, chips come with free refills?" and
Spoiler: minor point
"Damn it, Holmes. You already got a Ryunosuke almost arrested, and now you've gotten Soseki arrested!?"

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EDIT: Seems I got details of the case wrong, disregard
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I feel like the more I play of this game, the less I can decide which one is my favorite. They're all so wonderful for completely different reasons.

That said, this case in particular, while powerful on its own, doesn't have as much relevance to the overarching plot, aside from a few hints at the end of the case. I'm so disappointed the cat didn't have much of a role. :(

I've just visited hoso_boso's walkthrough site and taken a peek at how long the 5th case is.

Spoiler: Episode 5 structure
Holy moly, 8 segments in total. The only case to have ever surpassed that length was GK2-3; but this one is the finale, so I can only expect greater things from it.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
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Last edited by Bolt Storm on Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tagging a small episode 5 detail.

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Right now, I am convinced Prosecutor Barok van Zeiks is an alcoholic. We know there is a massive rumor-mill going about his curse:
Spoiler: curse
Everyone he prosecutes dies regardless of innocence. Even the civilians know about the curse and gossip to you about it openly. There is no question that reputation damages his outside-of-work relations - people won't want to associate with him, causing him to be isolated and untrusted when he is feeling most stressed about work. Not the mention Barok must be under intense personal stress of worrying about the safety of those around him and also fretting about when he will be accused of doing the deeds himself.
I counted at least four glass fillings in case 3. That's enough to dull most people, but not him. He must have a pretty high tolerance. As case 3 progressed, his behavior became increasingly aberrant in court as he presumably drank offscreen while you were crossing and all, culminating in the bizarre legslam-on-the-desk incident. Now in case 4 we have him tossing a bottle over his shoulder into the gallery, and most-likely doing serious damage to his hands smashing glasses. Just bringing the alcohol into court is a sign of a problem, not the mention the number of glasses he poured.
He's probably the type that has to drink some just to feel like he can function properly in court. He needs to get help. He is making Hobo-hodou look like a lightweight.
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Minor question:
Spoiler:
Is Juror No.3 Ladyfirst from the previous case? No.1 is clearly Fairplay, but if No.3 is Ladyfirst, he's wearing different clothes (but Ladyfirst isn't) so I can't entirely tell...

Also I think London has literally the worst jury selection process ever.

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Bad Player wrote:
Minor question:
Spoiler:
Is Juror No.3 Ladyfirst from the previous case? No.1 is clearly Fairplay, but if No.3 is Ladyfirst, he's wearing different clothes (but Ladyfirst isn't) so I can't entirely tell...

Also I think London has literally the worst jury selection process ever.


I'm not certain.

Spoiler: Jurors
I think he's supposed to be different - Fairplay makes reference to the previous case, but #3 never really seems to indicate he knows Ryuunosuke. His hat style is also different (didn't Ladyfirst specialize in top hats?)

But yeah, worst jury selection ever. It occasionally feels a little too convenient, but if all the jurors were all completely unconnected to the case at all times, that would get difficult to keep interesting.

Hey! My current life situation is [low-level internal screaming], so I may be slow to respond to things. Thanks for understanding!

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Bolt Storm wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Minor question:
Spoiler:
Is Juror No.3 Ladyfirst from the previous case? No.1 is clearly Fairplay, but if No.3 is Ladyfirst, he's wearing different clothes (but Ladyfirst isn't) so I can't entirely tell...

Also I think London has literally the worst jury selection process ever.


I'm not certain.

Spoiler: Jurors
I think he's supposed to be different - Fairplay makes reference to the previous case, but #3 never really seems to indicate he knows Ryuunosuke. His hat style is also different (didn't Ladyfirst specialize in top hats?)

But yeah, worst jury selection ever. It occasionally feels a little too convenient, but if all the jurors were all completely unconnected to the case at all times, that would get difficult to keep interesting.

Spoiler:
Yeah, Ladyfirst was a tophat-maker, which is why I thought his hat might have changed. But pressing Fairplay in the jury examination also seems make it pretty clear that No.3 isn't Ladyfirst (or everyone is a massive idiot... which is always possible in AA)

Even in case 3, the selection wasn't so bad, but I felt it was at an acceptable level, whereas here it's a bit over-the-top. Like, in case 3, we had the guy who was in charge of the bus company, and the old lady who liked the park the defendant helped. Here we have the witness who was basically accused by the attorney 2 days ago, and the defendant's landlady? And the witness who explicitly says he just wants to vote guilty to get out of there ASAP? C'moon.

(also dat voice acting)

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Bad Player wrote:
Bolt Storm wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Minor question:
Spoiler:
Is Juror No.3 Ladyfirst from the previous case? No.1 is clearly Fairplay, but if No.3 is Ladyfirst, he's wearing different clothes (but Ladyfirst isn't) so I can't entirely tell...

Also I think London has literally the worst jury selection process ever.


I'm not certain.

Spoiler: Jurors
I think he's supposed to be different - Fairplay makes reference to the previous case, but #3 never really seems to indicate he knows Ryuunosuke. His hat style is also different (didn't Ladyfirst specialize in top hats?)

But yeah, worst jury selection ever. It occasionally feels a little too convenient, but if all the jurors were all completely unconnected to the case at all times, that would get difficult to keep interesting.

Spoiler:
Yeah, Ladyfirst was a tophat-maker, which is why I thought his hat might have changed. But pressing Fairplay in the jury examination also seems make it pretty clear that No.3 isn't Ladyfirst (or everyone is a massive idiot... which is always possible in AA)

Even in case 3, the selection wasn't so bad, but I felt it was at an acceptable level, whereas here it's a bit over-the-top. Like, in case 3, we had the guy who was in charge of the bus company, and the old lady who liked the park the defendant helped. Here we have the witness who was basically accused by the attorney 2 days ago, and the defendant's landlady? And the witness who explicitly says he just wants to vote guilty to get out of there ASAP? C'moon.

(also dat voice acting)

Spoiler:
On meta level, they probably want to cut cost and just reuse the models. :yogi:

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Spoiler: Breakdowns
Just rewatched case 4 and I love the parallel breakdowns. In the Sherlock deduction section, Mr. Garrideb faints and is caught by his wife who has no trouble lifting him whatsoever. In the trial section it is Mrs. Garrideb who faints and Mr. Garrideb tries to catch her and isn't quite able to hold her.


Also I want to know why Souseki isn't wearing any socks with his geta. It's winter.
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^ Well, he sure shivers a lot. It's probably implied that the socks he once had became worn and he didn't think to replace them... especially with all those books.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.
Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

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Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
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So I was talking with JapaneseGIRL about the game, when she pointed out what appears to be a rather big mistake in this case...

Spoiler:
So as the trial progresses, we discover that "The Adventure of the Lion's Mane" caught fire (as seen in the evidence), and was then tossed out the window, only to be picked up by Veridian Green.

However, in the second photograph of the crime scene, we see Veridian Green is holding an intact book. The evidence description says "Another photograph the police took of the crime scene right after it happened. You can see what the victim is holding." But from this angle, the burn marks should've shown! And Pat has stated it's the same book. So....what's going on?

(photographs made by JapaneseGIRL)

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Ash wrote:
So I was talking with JapaneseGIRL about the game, when she pointed out what appears to be a rather big mistake in this case...

Spoiler:
So as the trial progresses, we discover that "The Adventure of the Lion's Mane" caught fire (as seen in the evidence), and was then tossed out the window, only to be picked up by Veridian Green.

However, in the second photograph of the crime scene, we see Veridian Green is holding an intact book. The evidence description says "Another photograph the police took of the crime scene right after it happened. You can see what the victim is holding." But from this angle, the burn marks should've shown! And Pat has stated it's the same book. So....what's going on?

(photographs made by JapaneseGIRL)

Hmm...
Spoiler:
They probably just intended for the other corner to be the burned one. I mean, you can see in the evidence that only one corner is burned, and it'd be perfectly hidden if it was just flipped from the way it is in the photo.

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Possibly, but as it's now, it's a rather unfortunate contradiction in the evidence in a game about finding contradictions in the evidence :/
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Just watched the translation of this case and man, this is my new least favorite "case". :/
Super boring filler case with the worst character in the series, Joan Garrideb.

Spoiler:
Anybody else wished she was the murderer and would be sentenced to death?


Last edited by Lusankya on Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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^ Careful with those tags there.

I seem to be hearing more and more comments hating on this case, and I can never pinpoint exactly why. It kinda makes me sad for poor Mr. Natsume, for his debut case to be hated so... though I suppose it's because of Holmes that he was defendant in the first place... as much as the prosecution would deny it.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
Various official AA stuff translations currently in the works.
Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
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Yeah... It's admittedly filler, but I still like it.

Spoiler:
I remembered Joan's breakdown where she falls into John's arms...

However I had completely forgotten that in the investigation, after the dual reasoning segment, John has a 'breakdown' where he falls into Joan's arms... I never realized that Joan's breakdown was a reference to John's like that until I re-played that part of the investigation a few days ago.

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
I seem to be hearing more and more comments hating on this case, and I can never pinpoint exactly why. It kinda makes me sad for poor Mr. Natsume, for his debut case to be hated so... though I suppose it's because of Holmes that he was defendant in the first place... as much as the prosecution would deny it.


It's probably connected to my increasing frustration with the game. At the end of case three I thought we would finally see Iris and then she just has an unimportant minor role in case 4. Case 4 just seems really unnecessary and it's not even a fun filler case.

Spoiler:
After case 2 it's the second "murder" by accident and these type of cases aren't really gripping enough in my opinion. I also felt no pity towards the police guy (forgot his name) and Rola, it overall was just a dumb reason to move the body. There is also a strange disconnection between the characters drawn in traditional AA style and the characters drawn in a more "Layton-esque" style. The latter I can't take too seriously.



I hope case 5 at least answers some questions regarding the earlier cases, after all I still don't know the motives for the murders in case 1 and 3!

Btw. I think they missed a critical detail during the first meeting with Iris in case 4:
Spoiler:
So they find out that her name is Iris Watson and they don't even think she could be related to the murder victim Dr. Watson from the first case? It's really weird he isn't mentioned there at all.
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DGS definitely takes things slowly in building up and revealing everything/everyone.

Takumi really should've made it clear that this is DGS1 from the beginning...
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Why are all the characters so overtly...

Spoiler:
...racist in this game? (particularly in this episode.) It's quite disturbing. Yes, people were a lot more racist in the 1800's. But they seem to take it really strong level in this game considering that it's generally a lighthearted series.
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ouboros wrote:
Why are all the characters so overtly...

Spoiler:
...racist in this game? (particularly in this episode.) It's quite disturbing. Yes, people were a lot more racist in the 1800's. But they seem to take it really strong level in this game considering that it's generally a lighthearted series.

Spoiler:
It's especially a theme for this episode, because of Soseki. The (real) man was super-stressed in real life during his time in London, actual racism towards him (Asians) being a huge part of the reason. It's interestingly enough also a theme in other mystery stories featuring Soseki and Holmes, like Shimada's THe London Mummy Murder Case and Yamada's The Yellow Lodger.

There is also the fact that unlike the main series, DGS is obviously set in a historical, actual setting (with a dash of fiction), so Takumi used to address real social problems of the time. Takumi stated on the other hand that the main series was written with the idea that the world was like a fairy tale, not based on the real world (that's why he made up the whole legal system for example). So the difference in setting led to a difference in tone.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Spoiler:
"To think that I might have hurt someone with my own hands!" ...that is, other than your husband, Joan? Honestly everything about her treatment of her husband just made me so uncomfortable, especially with how it was treated almost like a joke up until the end when it was revealed it led to the unfortunate stabbing. I hope Joan got a major reality check out of that one. And that Rola with her Pat-shaking-habits won't grow up into a Joan in the future. With that said I liked the story of Pat and Rola and I did feel sympathy for Pat in regards to his actions. It made me happy to see that Barok seemed to do that too. I think the flow of this case was better executed than the last one and therefore it had my attention more throughout, but when all is said and done this one felt so... filler. I have nothing against "filler cases" in general but this one just didn't do anything for me, other than having Souseki and Iris in it. Which it could have had without the case being so uninteresting and feeling slightly... off?, in a sense, and not in a good way. As Ryuu and Susato stated by the end, it feels like it's just getting started now and the build-up has taken its sweet time. The fifth case looks long as hell though so I hope that (and the sequel) will make up for it.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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Going for Miles wrote:
Spoiler:
"To think that I might have hurt someone with my own hands!" ...that is, other than your husband, Joan? Honestly everything about her treatment of her husband just made me so uncomfortable, especially with how it was treated almost like a joke up until the end when it was revealed it led to the unfortunate stabbing. I hope Joan got a major reality check out of that one. And that Rola with her Pat-shaking-habits won't grow up into a Joan in the future. With that said I liked the story of Pat and Rola and I did feel sympathy for Pat in regards to his actions. It made me happy to see that Barok seemed to do that too. I think the flow of this case was better executed than the last one and therefore it had my attention more throughout, but when all is said and done this one felt so... filler. I have nothing against "filler cases" in general but this one just didn't do anything for me, other than having Souseki and Iris in it. Which it could have had without the case being so uninteresting and feeling slightly... off?, in a sense, and not in a good way. As Ryuu and Susato stated by the end, it feels like it's just getting started now and the build-up has taken its sweet time. The fifth case looks long as hell though so I hope that (and the sequel) will make up for it.


Spoiler:
A bit problem with the first DGS is that it takes its own time, being much more slow paced and not in a rush to get to the point. This case is the epitome of that. I really like the Pat-Rola subplot in this one and Sherlock's crazy deduction that a lion ate the carpet, but this case is just…bad. It's my least favourite Takumi case, in all honesty. It feels like a Layton game with how every other killer is unnecessarily sympathetic and how it was all just an unfortunate accident (no comment on case 5). This case also somehow managed to drag on while the mystery was abnormally simple. This feels like a second case, not a fourth case. And yes, Joan is a terrible wife and I hate every part of her being just for existing. Poor John.

Click on the picture below.
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Spoiler:
Quote:
It feels like a Layton game with how every other killer is unnecessarily sympathetic and how it was all just an unfortunate accident (no comment on case 5).

Yeah, and the artstyle of most people involved doesn't help matters either. I think this game carried over some nice things from PLvsPW, but these kind of character designs, and the discrepancy between them, the usual AA-esque ones and the more realistic ones is not one of them.

Quote:
This case also somehow managed to drag on while the mystery was abnormally simple.

Mm, I thought of that too. Looking back on the mystery and its conclusion I just can't fathom how they managed to make the case as long as it was because it really feels like it should have been solved in a jiffy.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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