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Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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I think for Ryunosuuke the important thing is to keep the localization tradition of making his first name use a name from greek mythology.

There's a number of things you could do while retaining the japanese idea of mixing Nick and Apollo's names.

Apollonix Wright

Phoebe (Apollon) Wright (hey nobody said we couldn't turn it into a middle-name)

or... lol
Phobos Wright (Phobos, as in Phobia, is spirit of fear and panic)

Maybe Payne should have that godly name: Phobos Payne?

and just for fun...
Phoenomenon Wright.

EDIT:
I'm actually looking up some greek mythology names right now, and I think... you could actually call Ryu "Apollodorus" but it might be a stretch. The reason I'd do that is because Apollodorus is the name of I guess, sort of a founder whose real full name wasn't know, but he depicted the various gods known from the mythology, and he's responsible for writing Phoenix into greek mythological history if I understood this right.

It fits in with the theme of this game being the historical origin for Ace Attorney and it bears resemblance to the tradition of giving name to the protagonist in the localization :phoenix:
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One guy suggested that Taketsuchi should be "Shuriken Payne".
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Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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RayquazaSenpai wrote:
One guy suggested that Taketsuchi should be "Shuriken Payne".

That would be cool, but I don't think it actually works if Payne doesn't appear like a ninja. It sounds more like a good pun for Gaspen IMO.
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linkenski wrote:
RayquazaSenpai wrote:
One guy suggested that Taketsuchi should be "Shuriken Payne".

That would be cool, but I don't think it actually works if Payne doesn't appear like a ninja. It sounds more like a good pun for Gaspen IMO.

Heh, only if we see 'dat Gaspen in the ancient courtroom (which is extremely impossible), that name could be usable to Gaspen. According to likenski anyway. :edgey:
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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Figured I'll chime in. I'm working from the standpoint of DGS-starts-in-Japan-but-descendents-move-to-US because there's no other possible way to make the canon work (I'm also using Western name order for simplicity's sake):

Ryuunosuke: Either simply Ryuunosuke Raitou or Nikyuusuke Raitou (I kind of want to let Iris call him "Nick" when he gets to England, preserving the connection with Phoenix. Bit of a stretch, but I don't have any better ideas right now. Raitou is obvious)

EDIT: ...Yanosuke. From Ianos, the Greek name for the Roman god Janus. That more-or-less keeps the naming theme going, and Yanosuke is an actual Japanese name to boot.

Susato: I don't know what to do with her. Mikotoba I want to do some pun regarding eloquence, and Susato I believe is connected to Ayasato (the Feys' family name in Japan), but I'm not sure if the latter is real or just me wishing very very hard (it should be true dammit). Something like "Lexa Ley" (i.e. ley lines) is what I want to do, but Japanese has a severe 'L' deficiency.

...One brainstorm later: Perhaps "Orato Rimia"? This makes me smile, which is usually either a very good or very bad sign when it comes to these things, so >_>

Taketsuchi Auchi: I'm not even going to try to beat Shuriken Peiin. Moving on.

Asougi: ...Sigh. [MAJOR SPOILERS INCOMING~]
Spoiler:
The fact that there's still so many mysteries surrounding him makes him basically impossible to work with. Like, asougi means some stupidly big number, and Kazuma is one truth, but we also have the kanji in "Asougi" for "twin honors/meanings/justice/etc." which must be referring to something. There's hints to what that thing is throughout the game, but we never get an explicit answer. Plus it could be a pun on "sougi"/"funeral," because of course it is. Also the sword. That sword. List of things that cannot be a coincidence: #1: That ****ing sword. So how do I explain why a Japanese sword has the name "von Karma"? Because there's literally no working around that one, and merely calling it "Karma" (or even worse, "Karuma") would obscure the reference too much. Also I am starting to hate coming up with names that are (supposed to be) Japanese.

...Maybe Kazema Suta. I hated this initially, but it's since grown on me.

EDIT: Kurido Waketa.

Yuujin Mikotoba: "Amigo" is horribly, horribly tempting.

Jezail Brett should stay Jezail Brett.

Barok van prosecutor guy: I like the Bram Valkyr idea, but he's another victim of the "We-know-so-little-about-him-yet" problem. The 万事休す reading is probably right, but... Petr Aidal?

...I tried, dammit >_>

Hart Vortex: On the one hand, you can't change this name. You just can't. It's too perfect. On the other hand, Pidge Vortex?

Satoru: I'm not 100% sure what the origin of his name is, and based on stuff I've found on the 'Net neither is anyone else, but I'm fond of my name for him: Tsurei Tonaro

Sonohigurashi: Shirin Adei (Hopefully the spelling doesn't obscure the meaning too much, because this is probably my favorite name I've come up with for DGS.)

The Uzukumarus: Dazaimaru and Eiga Nihai (I'm debating changing "Dazaimaru" to "Dazairu" to make it more obvious, but "Dazaimaru" sounds more like an actual name to my (admittedly American) ears.)

EDIT: How about Kurouchi instead?

And an addition for this edit:
Cosney Megundahl: Donald Almsman

Last edited by Dowolf on Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title
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Atuyhan Ihdamdhas

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I'm going to edit Barok's name. Originally, I suggested "Hayden van Damme", but now it's "Balthazar van Damme".
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Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title
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I've been thinking a little about this. This game is interesting because a lot of the names are already in English and some are taken straight from Holmes stories, so wouldn't need to be changed at all. The ones that do are the ones that either sound really weird (Ladyfirst, Hart Vortex... you know, the kind of names Japanese fiction LOVES using for western characters that sound cool to Japanese speakers but sound incredibly stupid to English speakers), are Japanese puns (Nikomina, van Zieks) or both (Megundral)

Names that can probable stay the same: Sherlock Holmes (duh), Iris Watson, John H Watson, Mitrov Stroganov (pun is perfectly understandable in English), Grimesby Roylott, Beppo, Gina Lestrade, Tobias Gregson, John Garrideb, Joan, Viridian Green

Plus any Japanese names that aren't obvious puns.

Names that need changing:

-Dmitri Demiglaski. I find it weird that a Russian name is a pun on a FRENCH dish. Dimitri can stay though.

-Nikomina Borschevik. Her first name is a Japanese pun, so that might need changing. Surname is probably fine though.
Suggestion: not sure.

-Cosney Megundal: Pun on kozeni megundeyaru, "I'll spare you some change." But a few other important things to know about his name:
It has to also work as the name of a park.
It's a (very very minor) plot point that he shares an initial with Case 3's victim (Morta).

I had a few ideas. "Manny Leander" would be pretty good if they hadn't already used "Manny". (Also might not sound "grand" enough) Also, am I the only who who thinks his appearence HAS to be a total Redd White reference? He even flashes his bling in a similar way. "Jack Union" was a random thought I came up with to play off that, "Union Park" makes sense as a name and "Union" has financial connotations.

Adam Ladyfirst: Ladd "Laddy" First (I would spell it some other way but I don't want to look like I'm ripping off one AAI2 translation), maybe? Ladd is a surname though.

Oscar Fairplay: I like the earlier suggestion of referencing Knox here.

Egg Benedict: Maybe make it less obvious, like "Eggbert". Though I'm not sure "Benedict" is common as a surname.

MAJOR SPOILER CHARACTER:
Spoiler:
Rubert Crogrey, a pun of "kuro (black)" + "grey". Honestly I actually think simply "Rubert Grey" sounds pretty good as a final case villain name. His original surname "Milverton" can stay the same.

If you want AAI2 localized, say so in your signature.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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Was bouncing ideas around randomly, and came up with Barold Fallhart for Barok van Zieks, which is perfect ^_^
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Well, at DCTP there was some name suggestions and I think they were quite well reasoned. :klavier:

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2756&start=285#p853311

Here is the same post for those who don't feel like going to other sites...
Spoiler:
Honosuke Raito for Ryūnosuke Naruhodō - - He keeps a Japanese sounding name because he is obviously Japanese. Honoo (Hono for our western tastes) is for "fire" and nosuke is for the "herald of". He's the fire herald, and also a reference to the fire phoenix Houou. As a translation benefit, if any unavoidably draconic puns must be made, they can reference fire breathing. Raito is Wright backromanized. When the ancestor naturalized, he switched his name to an English-natural spelling like many immigrants do.

Ichi Ouchi for Taketsuchi Auchi - Ouchi makes the pun a little more obvious and encourages English speakers to pronounce it right. Ichi sounds like "itchy" which in the context of an ouchy is unpleasant sounding - a good feeling to capture for Payne and his ilk. Ichi also means "one", which makes translating Auchi's inevitable "I'm the best" boasts all that much easier.

Susa Mikotoba for Susato Mikotoba - It's a Japanese name. The given name drops the -to so it sounds a bit more feminine to western ears. Susa can pick up Susie or Susan as a nickname for English benefit. "Miko" is a fairly recognizable Japanese word (a priestess) and "Mikotoba" is fairly easy to say. The family name is unlikely to be used often since she is an assistant so it doesn't matter if it is unfamiliar.

Kaze Asōgi for Kazuma Asōgi - This guy is tough because he will need a Japanese name. He might as well keep the original (A reference to teamwork and one truth), but I think some things can be done to make the breeze motif come out more. English-speakers, and especially Americans, are somewhat likely to know the word kaze (wind) from the suicide pilots' kamikaze (divine wind)..

Bram Valkyr for Baroque Bangieks - This is a hard one because Shu declined to name the references. Bram is from Bram Stoker, author of Dracula, since I'm getting a pretty strong vampire vibe from Baroque. I want the given name to start with a B like the Japanese counterpart. The family name needs to reference something to do with psychopomps or the underword to complete the prosecutor's theme. After drawing many blanks, I picked Valkyr, an obvious reference to Valkyries. It covers ferrying off the fallen, fighting, and flying (to reference the shadowy bird wings we saw in his intro). It also starts with a V like the Japanese counterpart (V/B being a thing in Japanese). "Prosecutor Valkyr" sounds awesome enough.
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There's some nice ideas there, but my gut instinct is that any name that requires the reader to know Japanese in order to get has entirely missed the point of coming up with new names.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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My name for Auchi is

Kurinjin Agoni

Alternatively "Ago Nii-chan"
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Dowolf wrote:
There's some nice ideas there, but my gut instinct is that any name that requires the reader to know Japanese in order to get has entirely missed the point of coming up with new names.

True, but the point was that DGS is so obviously Japanese(unlike the other games) that the Japanese theming in the names should be kept.
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MoonRaven wrote:
Honosuke Raito for Ryūnosuke Naruhodō - - He keeps a Japanese sounding name because he is obviously Japanese. Honoo (Hono for our western tastes) is for "fire" and nosuke is for the "herald of". He's the fire herald, and also a reference to the fire phoenix Houou. As a translation benefit, if any unavoidably draconic puns must be made, they can reference fire breathing. Raito is Wright backromanized. When the ancestor naturalized, he switched his name to an English-natural spelling like many immigrants do.

Trivia: Ho-o is traditionally not a mythical bird that is strongly associated with the fire element. That's more something for Suzaku.

I do have some question marks too about replacing Japanese names with... err... other Japanese names. If you're going with Japanese names away, keep the original, I'd say. Then again, Igarashi also turned into Kudo in GS3...
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

Calm, pacified attorney

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Like Dowolf said, the point is to keep the Japanese theme but make their name puns understandable. If they're just their original Japanese names an English player would not understand the play on words and puns.
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MoonRaven wrote:
Well, at DCTP there was some name suggestions and I think they were quite well reasoned. :klavier:

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2756&start=285#p853311

Hahaha, that's me. I actually have updated the name suggestions since that post here in this thread on the first page. Might as well repeat them, but in a spoiler box not to take up more space.

Spoiler:
Ryu Raito for Ryūnosuke Naruhodō - He keeps a Japanese sounding name because he is obviously Japanese. Raito is Wright backromanized. When the ancestor naturalized, he switched his name to an English-natural spelling like many immigrants do. Ryu Raito is alliterative to boot. Ryu is short and easy to say, and it sounds cool to western ears.

Shuriken Peinu for Taketsuchi Auchi - Full credit goes to RayquazaSenpai(?) who suggested "Shuriken Payne" ("Shriek in pain") as the name which is absolutely top notch. The only quibble is that "Payne" is not very Japanese, so backromanize it to "Peinu".

Susa Mikotoba for Susato Mikotoba - It's a Japanese name. The given name drops the -to so it sounds a bit more feminine to western ears. Susa can pick up Susie or Susan as a nickname for English benefit. "Miko" is a fairly recognizable Japanese word (a priestess) and "Mikotoba" is fairly easy to say. The family name doesn't get used much after the first case since she is an assistant and gets on first-name terms with others quickly so it doesn't matter if it is unfamiliar.

Kenan Kaze for Kazuma Asōgi - Kenan and Kaze are super easy on English tongues. English-speakers, and especially Americans, are somewhat likely to know the word kaze (wind) from the suicide pilots' kamikaze (divine wind). Kenan is a triple allusion to swords (剣 ken), unresolved problems (懸案 Kenan), and autopsy (検案 Kenan). The whole name together sounds like "ken and kaze": sword and wind.

Bram Valkyr for Barok van Zieks/Baroque Bangieks - Although English, his name has to change because it simply isn't cool. Bram is from Bram Stoker, author of Dracula. It has the convenience of beginning with a B like the Japanese counterpart. The family name needs to reference something to do with psychopomps or the underworld to complete the prosecutor's theme. After drawing many blanks, I picked Valkyr, an obvious reference to Valkyries. It also starts with a V like the Japanese counterpart (V/B being a thing in Japanese). "Prosecutor Valkyr" sounds awesome enough. I decided not to force the "van Something" (like van Helsing) because Bram is vampire enough, anymore on top of that is overkill.

Chron ____ for Hurt/Heart Vortex

Jezail Bullitt - Jezail stays as is to keep the reference to Watson's injury from a Jezail Bullet. I since come around to whoever suggested Bullitt as an alternative to Brett.

Benedict Scramble for Egg Benedict, the alias of Robert Crogley. It's still unbelievable and egg based. Name initials are highly relevant in the case 5 Sherlock section, so Benedict Scramble is ... very suitable.


Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title
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^What?! You are here too?!
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MoonRaven wrote:
^What?! You are here too?!

Why would I not be? AA is well balanced fairplay mysteries! It's really hard to find series, be it game, manga, or literature, that plays flair with the clues, keeps an even plot, and doesn't contrive a twist for sake of being twisty. I'm really excited for DGS's continuing plot because multi-part plots have more depth.
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Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MoonRaven wrote:
^What?! You are here too?!

Why would I not be? AA is well balanced fairplay mysteries! It's really hard to find series, be it game, manga, or literature, that plays flair with the clues, keeps an even plot, and doesn't contrive a twist for sake of being twisty. I'm really excited for DGS's continuing plot because multi-part plots have more depth.

I was just... surprised. It's always a surprise to see 'familiar faces' at other sites. Maybe in my mind I just linked you so tightly to DCTP and DCW that I didn't even consider finding you anywhere else. I remember when I joined DCTP I was like "oh, that person is here too... and that one... hey even that one has joined!". :adrian:
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Atuyhan Ihdamdhas

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Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MoonRaven wrote:
Well, at DCTP there was some name suggestions and I think they were quite well reasoned. :klavier:

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2756&start=285#p853311

Hahaha, that's me. I actually have updated the name suggestions since that post here in this thread on the first page. Might as well repeat them, but in a spoiler box not to take up more space.

Spoiler:
Ryu Raito for Ryūnosuke Naruhodō - He keeps a Japanese sounding name because he is obviously Japanese. Raito is Wright backromanized. When the ancestor naturalized, he switched his name to an English-natural spelling like many immigrants do. Ryu Raito is alliterative to boot. Ryu is short and easy to say, and it sounds cool to western ears.

Shuriken Peinu for Taketsuchi Auchi - Full credit goes to RayquazaSenpai(?) who suggested "Shuriken Payne" ("Shriek in pain") as the name which is absolutely top notch. The only quibble is that "Payne" is not very Japanese, so backromanize it to "Peinu".

Susa Mikotoba for Susato Mikotoba - It's a Japanese name. The given name drops the -to so it sounds a bit more feminine to western ears. Susa can pick up Susie or Susan as a nickname for English benefit. "Miko" is a fairly recognizable Japanese word (a priestess) and "Mikotoba" is fairly easy to say. The family name doesn't get used much after the first case since she is an assistant and gets on first-name terms with others quickly so it doesn't matter if it is unfamiliar.

Kaze Asōgi for Kazuma Asōgi - This guy is tough because he will need a Japanese name. He might as well keep the original (A reference to teamwork and one truth), but I think some things can be done to make the breeze motif come out more. English-speakers, and especially Americans, are somewhat likely to know the word kaze (wind) from the suicide pilots' kamikaze (divine wind).

Bram Valkyr for Barok van Zieks/Baroque Bangieks - Although English, his name has to change because it simply isn't cool. Bram is from Bram Stoker, author of Dracula. It has the convenience of beginning with a B like the Japanese counterpart. The family name needs to reference something to do with psychopomps or the underworld to complete the prosecutor's theme. After drawing many blanks, I picked Valkyr, an obvious reference to Valkyries. It also starts with a V like the Japanese counterpart (V/B being a thing in Japanese). "Prosecutor Valkyr" sounds awesome enough. I decided not to force the "van Something" (like van Helsing) because Bram is vampire enough, anymore on top of that is overkill.

Chron ____ for Hurt/Heart Vortex

Jezail Brett - stays as is to keep the reference to Watson's injury from a Jezail Bullet. Both parts of the name sounds fine to English ears.

Benedict Scramble for Egg Benedict, the alias of Robert Crogley. It's still unbelievable and egg based. Name initials are highly relevant in the case 5 Sherlock section, so Benedict Scramble is ... very suitable.

I think "Pein" (ペイン) would be more appropriate.
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Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MoonRaven wrote:
Well, at DCTP there was some name suggestions and I think they were quite well reasoned. :klavier:

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2756&start=285#p853311

Hahaha, that's me. I actually have updated the name suggestions since that post here in this thread on the first page. Might as well repeat them, but in a spoiler box not to take up more space.

Spoiler:
Ryu Raito for Ryūnosuke Naruhodō - He keeps a Japanese sounding name because he is obviously Japanese. Raito is Wright backromanized. When the ancestor naturalized, he switched his name to an English-natural spelling like many immigrants do. Ryu Raito is alliterative to boot. Ryu is short and easy to say, and it sounds cool to western ears.

Shuriken Peinu for Taketsuchi Auchi - Full credit goes to RayquazaSenpai(?) who suggested "Shuriken Payne" ("Shriek in pain") as the name which is absolutely top notch. The only quibble is that "Payne" is not very Japanese, so backromanize it to "Peinu".

Susa Mikotoba for Susato Mikotoba - It's a Japanese name. The given name drops the -to so it sounds a bit more feminine to western ears. Susa can pick up Susie or Susan as a nickname for English benefit. "Miko" is a fairly recognizable Japanese word (a priestess) and "Mikotoba" is fairly easy to say. The family name doesn't get used much after the first case since she is an assistant and gets on first-name terms with others quickly so it doesn't matter if it is unfamiliar.

Kaze Asōgi for Kazuma Asōgi - This guy is tough because he will need a Japanese name. He might as well keep the original (A reference to teamwork and one truth), but I think some things can be done to make the breeze motif come out more. English-speakers, and especially Americans, are somewhat likely to know the word kaze (wind) from the suicide pilots' kamikaze (divine wind).

Bram Valkyr for Barok van Zieks/Baroque Bangieks - Although English, his name has to change because it simply isn't cool. Bram is from Bram Stoker, author of Dracula. It has the convenience of beginning with a B like the Japanese counterpart. The family name needs to reference something to do with psychopomps or the underworld to complete the prosecutor's theme. After drawing many blanks, I picked Valkyr, an obvious reference to Valkyries. It also starts with a V like the Japanese counterpart (V/B being a thing in Japanese). "Prosecutor Valkyr" sounds awesome enough. I decided not to force the "van Something" (like van Helsing) because Bram is vampire enough, anymore on top of that is overkill.

Chron ____ for Hurt/Heart Vortex

Jezail Brett - stays as is to keep the reference to Watson's injury from a Jezail Bullet. Both parts of the name sounds fine to English ears.

Benedict Scramble for Egg Benedict, the alias of Robert Crogley. It's still unbelievable and egg based. Name initials are highly relevant in the case 5 Sherlock section, so Benedict Scramble is ... very suitable.

I think "Pein" (ペイン) would be more appropriate.
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
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RayquazaSenpai wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Shuriken Peinu for Taketsuchi Auchi - Full credit goes to RayquazaSenpai(?) who suggested "Shuriken Payne" ("Shriek in pain") as the name which is absolutely top notch. The only quibble is that "Payne" is not very Japanese, so backromanize it to "Peinu".

I think "Pein" (ペイン) would be more appropriate.

The reason why I added the u is because "Pein" doesn't look Japanese. It looks like a western word, maybe Chinese. Adding the "u" to the end makes it look more stereotypically Japanese. (頁犬 Peinu). It doesn't detract from the pun either.

Edit: I just got my Asougi name: Kenan Kaze. Kenan and Kaze are super easy on English tongues. Kaze is wind, and Kenan is a triple allusion to swords (剣 ken), unresolved problems (懸案 Kenan), and autopsy (検案 Kenan). The whole name together sounds like "ken and kaze": sword and wind.
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Hello you all.

There are some awesome suggestions in here!
The one that particularly springs to mind is Kurinjin Agoni. Perfect pun in English, while keeping a name that is realistic-sounding in Japanese!

The best way to localize names is indeed finding similar puns: in English but Japanese syllables for Japanese characters, Russian-sounding for Russian characters, and 'remaining English sounding' for British characters (if they are not named after the Holmes canon, of course, otherwise, nothing to change.)

On the other hand, I see many people thinking about 'Raitou' for the hero.
It has good reasons for that. Namely, before all, Phoenix Wright=Ryuu (ichi) Naruhodou in Japanese, so his ancestor must definitely have something similar.

However, there are other ways, imho 'more natural', than just taking Wright and 'katakanizing it'. Simply because Raitou is plain ugly and not Japanese-like at all as a name! It looks just like what it is: the transliteration of a word in English into Japanese.
IF we want something that a Japanese migrating to the US would transform into 'Wright', it would most likely resemble 'U-RA-HI-TO' because the short 'U' in the beginning would indeed sound like wright, and it could be spelled in meaningful kanjis that have some realistic meaning in Japanese (people from behind).
EDIT: slight drawback Urahito is similar to urabito, meaning traitor.
We could go with Uraito ura= behind, ito=thread. A thread behind, possibly understandable both as 'an idea late/an idea behind others' AND 'an idea...behind the head/unexpected'. Either way, it suits the character just as a worthy Phoenix and newbie.


However, I also believe we can think 'out of the box', as after all we ARE Ace Attorney fans and could follow Mia's advice.

In that condition, what would make a good name for Phoenix's ancestor?

1) it should have the 'idea of fire', like Ryuu = dragon, a syllable that exists in both names in Japanese.
2) it (hopefully) should be shared between Phoenix and his ancestor
3) it MUST be a realistic Japanese name.

Well, for the second point, just think about that:
What is the most characteristic thing that makes Phoenix and his ancestor so much alike in Japanese?
The thing is: their attitudes and relations to others. Especially with the Maya-like assistant!
Actually puns like Mr Wrong or Trite, or the nickname as 'Nick' are totally part of it, and in Japanese the WHOLE point of 'Naruhodou san' vs 'Naruhodou sama' is just that: we are seeing a sort a Maya-Phoenix interaction in the past!

If, besides the Uraito/Urahito (definitely NOT Raito!), we consider the fact that between 100 and 140 years stand between the two games, we can freely imagine the family names to be different, as long as we keep something 'identical' that conveys to the English-speaking players what the identical names convey to the Japanese-speaking players.

Namely, the 'Nick nickname', so to speak.
It happens that Hikari means 'light'. It could be spelled 日火吏 respectively with 3 kanjis that mean day/sun, fire, and that is not relevant for its meaning, but for misreadings, as it could be mistaken for similar kanji keys sounding 'shi' or 'su'.
The first kanji is either read HI (hee) or...NI as in Nippon, actually. Which means that in localization it is pretty easy for Susato to misread such a name and say 'Mr, er.. Nikkasu?' Then have 'ahah, actually it is Hikari, but due to confusion, many say Nicks, yes.' 'Oh, alright, so I can call you Mr. Nick, then, right?'

AAANNND here we have it! In just a simple trick we can have a hero with a 100% Japanese name Hikari, including the ideas of sun and fire, AND the exact nickname Nick, like Phoenix, and mirror Phoenix-Maya dynamics just as well as it is mirrorred in Japanese!

Additionally, we can have a pun similar to Wright/Wrong with another trick. Family name Yuuno for 'you know?' that any other character can make puns on! Yuuno can be spelled with a wide choice of kanjis, so we can include whichever submeaning we want.

And if not satisfied, we can have Hikari 'Nick' Urahito, too...

Hope this small out of the box thinking pleased you.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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I would argue that, if the translation isn't intended for a Japanese-speaking audience, then whether or not a name is actually be a Japanese name is neither important nor interesting, provided it sounds "like" one to the intended, Anglophone audience. And in fact we see this same tendency from the developers themselves in the names they use for their Russian and British characters: Baroque, Cosney and Megundahl both, Ladyfast, Mortar, Hart and Vortex both, Stroganov, Demiglaski, Nikomina--the vast majority of names are not "real" names. And a number of the Japanese names, for that matter, don't sound like any I've ever encountered in real life. What mattered was the feeling the authors were going for, both in terms of puns and emotions.

"Urahito," while perhaps making sense as being equivalent to Wright from a Japanese-speaker's perspective, would fail from an English speaking one; an English speaker would put too much emphasis on the 'u' and 'h' sounds. "Uraito" basically brings us back to "raitou," only with what seems to an English speaker to be a random "u" in front of the name. That we can come up with kanji doesn't really matter, because the intended audience doesn't know any kanji. This is also the problem with "hikari:" the kanji pun is basically meaningless to an English speaker, never mind that he or she probably assumes Hikari is strictly a girl's name.
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Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Takumi's real reason for not revealing Barok van Zieks' name origin is most likely because the pun is rather obvious. A few fans on Pixiv have posted their thoughts on his name pun and come upon this: 万事休す (banji kyuusu), which means "There is nothing more that can be done". (Note that his name is pronounced "Banji-kusu" in katakana.) In a way, it makes him seem like he's resigned himself to his cursed fate.

Sorry, I just edited that line out before I saw your post. If I confused anyone, please know that it is entirely my fault. I think Bram is an amazing first name, but the last name could definitely change to reflect the curse.

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
In any case, quite a few of the English names will need to be changed as well, just to allow the localization team to throw in their own puns based on English terms. Likewise, I can accept Japanese names that sound like English words. They made it work for that old grump Kudo.
I think the most vulnerable names to change will be the suspects and witnesses rather than main characters. Some of the ones with English language-based puns like Jezail Brett (Jezail Bullet) can stay the same. Others like Hurt Vortex must go.

----

The knife barber juror, if he ever gets a name, has to be Jack because he is a Jack the Ripper expy for sure.


WHY!? His name is VORTEX for crying out loud, not to mention his character is time based!! It sounds so badass for this character. I know the name Barok Van zeiks is not "cool" or badass, but, he's...he's a von Karma esk guy ya know? :larry:
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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Thanks for your argument, Dowolf.

I very much have to disagree on the Uraito/Raito part.
Localization indeed has to take into account the target audience, on that I obviously agree 100%, but in doing so, it must keep some verisimilitide and realism to the names.
Precisely because the target audience may not have the same cultural background regarding the historical context.

Naturally, to the immense majority of English-speakers Raito seems 'Japanese enough', but to any English speaker who possesses even the smallest, most remote idea of Japanese, Raito just looks like a plain (and lazy half-assed!) English to Japanese transliteration, when it is, within the story, supposed to be the contrary, that in History the Japanese name became spelled Wright in English.
Plus Raito would become Right, not Wright.
All English players could feel this discrepancy, even those for whom 'Raito is Japanese enough'.

Hence Uraito would be not identical in pronounciation for English speakers indeed, but close enough to be recognized as 'omg it's like Wright!', AND being realistic at the same time, which makes it a better option than just Raito.

The Hikari-Nick reference is the same: it doesn't matter if 99% of the audience can't figure it out from zilch.
What IS important is that very early in the game the assistant coins the nickname Nick on the hero.
From there on, every player who cannot understand Japanese will have a hero called 'Hikari Nick Uraito', and get the same feeling during their play that the Japanese-speaking players had, which should be the #1aim of any translation!
Plus any player with an ounce of brains would understand that 'it's something about kanjis' if a line of dialogue says so, even if they have no knowledge of kanjis whatsover.


As for the examples you take (Russian-sounding names, English-sounding names to the Japanese-speaking players, etc.), they indeed may not be REAL (as neither Raito nor Uraito are) but 1)they tend to be REALISTIC in the context (which as I said Raito is not, or would yield Right, not Wright) and 2)if/when unrealistic or too far-fetched, they depend on the choices made by the authors.
A translation/localization has more responsibility in keeping realism and verisimilitude than the original work by the author, for the simple reason that the author is the 'sole responsible' for the reception (and perception) of his work by the original audience, whereas the translators and localizers must convey more than the meaning behind, and also the 'credibility' of the universe, hence my strong feeling that Uraito (while not sounding as close to Wright as Raito would) is actually better for an ancestor, because the descendant is called Wright and not Right, and because the important factor is a bit like Planck's uncertainty principle, finding balance between 'exact resemblance but no realism' (Raito) and 'absolute realism and no resemblance' (which would be not localized original name Ryuunosuke Naruhodou). Hikari 'Nick' Uraito/Urahito would be one possibility in this interval.
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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I mean, Susato would not possibly call him "Nick," so being used early in the game is a non-factor. You'd have to wait until he meets Iris, which isn't until case 4, and she doesn't really become a main character until case 5.

And as a native English speaker, all those quote-un-quote "English" names I mentioned look like lazy, half-ass attempts at an English name. Their point is to be fun and punny; to be in-jokes with the Japanese audience, in a sense. Furthermore, I think you're under a misconception here regarding "Right" vs. "Wright": the two are perfect homophones. And while a reader would understand if the translator explained the joke, I would argue that, at that point, the translator has already failed in her task.
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To throw my two cents into the ring on this matter...

Spirit of Justice's fourht case shows a willingness to makes names that "just sound Japanese" for the sake of being recognizable English jokes. So I think "Raito", or at the very least "Rahito" would be a more likely surname than anything else.

And as for his given name, an idea I came up with was Suzaku. It's another mythological bird associated with fire. Iris's nickname for him could be Zak.
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I was thinking that whether the game takes place in Japan or not is just left ambiguous. It's only referred to as "the empire" or something of the sort. Make the main/Japanese characters normal while all the British people are extremely over the top (maybe even play with some Irish/Scottish accents?) and as for Ms.Brett speaking the "queen's English"? Just make her (facade) incredibly timed with a thick British accent that the characters' can't understand. Or you could just cut that plot line out all together. So for the game's name, I think it would be something like: The Great Ace Attorney: The Adventures Of Wyvern Raito & Sherlock Holmes. Why the "& Sherlock Holmes" part? Simple, over in Europe and North America Sherlock Holmes is marketable as all hell. The two Holmes' movies from the late 2000s made more than $1,000,000, Elementary is going on to it's 5th season, and people still watch Sherlock even though it only comes out with 3 episode every 2 years. So if they market Sherlock Holmes this game will sell GREAT, even for non AA fans. So now on to character names, Some characters are left out because I don't think they need new names, mainly because they're references to Sherlock Holmes stories. They are: Sherlock himself (duh), John H.Watson, Grimsby Roylott, Beppo, Gina Lestrade, Tobias Gregson, Souseki Natsume (It's his actual name! Though maybe you could change him to Dr.seuss /s), Wagahai, & the Garrideb (I know that the name could be a pun on the Japanese words for skinny and fat but the name is from a Sherlock story so...)

Ryuunosuke Naruhodou = Wyvern Raito

Susato Mikotoba = Suzanne Mikoba

Kazuma Asougi = Senshi Kuesuto

Iris Watson = Alice Watson

Barek Van Zieks = Baroque Von Siques.

Taketsuchi Auchi = Shuriken Paynue

Yuujin Mikotoba = Yuujin Mikoba

Satoru Hosonaga = Ash Slendar.

Taizou uzukumaru = Ishtar Hudal.

Sanmon Sonihigurashi = Eldrick Porman.

Jezail Brett = Jiselle Bullette.

Mitrov Stroganov = Melof Stroganof.

Niomina Borschevitch = Kalinka Borschevitch.

Dimitri Demiglaski = Sergei Demiglaski.

Hart Vortex = Amser Goddard.

Cosney Megundal = Kipper Tosens.

Oscar Fairplay = Oscar Firpley.

Adam Ladyfirst = Adam Ladifurst.

Morta Milverton = Colin Ment

Pat & Lola O'Malley = Pat & Lola O'fficer.

Viridian Green = Emily Green.

Hutch = Hatch.

Egg Benedict = Egg S. Benedict.

Nemmy Tinpeller = Drahze Parson.

Tully Tinpller = Sugis Parson

Uzzeh Tinpeller = Anien Parson.

Rubert "Crogsley" Milverton = Rupert "Blacgraey" Ment.

On a side note, am I the only one who thinks that Gregson is the Tinpeller/Pason twins long lost brother? He looks just like them!
Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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Er, yes, the two Empires ARE CLEARLY Japan and Great Britain. ^^" it seems unnecessary and weird to change locations.

As for Wright/Right, I'm sorry if I left a misconception that might have been confusing.
Of course both sound the same and both would be katakanized the same in Japanese (i.e. Ra-i-to).
BUT what I mean is that realistically speaking, it is not just a matter of bijection (see maths)
concretely: wright or right (OR LIGHT!)transcribed INTO Japanese phonetic = Raito.
However, when we transcribe names into an alphabetical language (many exemples IRL!) we use the most natural way to spell it. So, IF a Japanese immigrant was called Raito in his original language and that was his patronym, it would be 'Englishized" as Right ou Rite or even Ritoh, not as Wright, the mute W being useless to transcribe any sound. On the other hand, that mute W could serve as a marking of a deleted initial sound in the original language. Like a U that came to be pronounced fast, then disappeared.

This is how etymology and linguistic work!

Also, as for the "Nick" nickname, precisely my point.
YES, Susato WOULD nickname him Nick, because that would be how one can transcribe, in an English version of a translated part that the player KNOWS is in Japanese (because characters ARE Japanese in Japan in the 'reality' of the setting) the use of a -san (or -sama in this case due to late 19th century use!) or -kun suffix, and the accompanying tone of connivence and affability.
Thus it would be exactly the same for us all in English, reading English, playing in English, but KNOWING the characters speak in Japanese among themselves, just as ot is to Japanese when watching Rocky or Jack Bauer dubbed in Japanese, but they see and know that 'in reality' 24 or the Balboa 'biopic' movies involve English-speaking characters.

Having a name like Hikari, meaning light, and possible to spell with kanjis that Susato would misread as 'Nikkasu' i.e. phonetically Nicks, and that a localization trick can explain by periphrases in the dialogue could yield in no time a short form of Nick for 'Nikksu'/'Nicks'.

This can be done and serve the immersion of the players.
Probably easier than Suzaku and the fire bird theme, as light is an easy concept, and the Nick nickname would be highly preferable for the game rendering and overall feeling.

As another note, if Raito seems sooooo vital to the general audience that wouldn't be able to imagine that in 6 generations (at least!) a character and a character's grand grand grand grand grand child do not have the same family name anymore, it might be conceivable. But it is infinitely less realistic to gave Raito become Wright than just have a totally different Japanese name (including ones like Yuuno/you know, that would make a pun!) which would just have been changed in the many decades through marriage with local citizens of Western English-speaking countries.
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I've seen the Alice Watson suggestion before. The kanji are very similar, Alice fits her, and it gets around the "already an Iris" issue.
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Besides the question of the hero's name (might as well be left as Naruhodou Ryuunosuke, no need to change it for "worst" like Suzaku (not better than having Ryuu as a cultural reference) or Raito (kills all realistic aspects of the name)), about the other characters, puns with names for a FAITHFUL English localized version could follow this fashion:

I tried to add my own thoughts, inventions and spelling to the brilliant suggestions past posters made before, aiming at a better result, in both meaning and verisimilitude, realism of the settings.
All due credit to all respective brilliant minds who found the ones I reuse. (Many are my findings, though)

Susato Mikotoba = Suitsuisupa Amiyama (sweetwhisper, more or less the meaning of her name, + maya-mia in Japanese reverse syllables. This being false translation BUT pure localization to respectfully translate the 'meaning and feeling behind', since she echoes Maya Fey's name so much to the Japanese audience.)

Kazuma Asougi = Honesu Tobohi (for 'honest boy')

Iris Watson = (Alice?? Imho useless to change) Iris Watson

Barok Van Zieks = Drake Van Pyres (again, not a faithful literal translation BUT a localization keeping in mind to convey the same idea ("baroque" to the Japanese is more like "gothic" to Westerners, hence the dragon and vampire references + a realistic name for a British noble, with a "van" indicating a plausible Dutch ancestry)

Taketsuchi Auchi = Kurinjin Agoni (cringe in agony/cringing agony) -totally Japanese name, exact same pun as gasp in pain/wince in pain.

Yuujin Mikotoba = Konjiniôru Amiyama (cf family name necessary for his daughter. First name exact translation) Konjiniôru (congenial) a possible alternative would be amiable: Emiebôru. Imho Konjiniôru seems more realistic, or at least less farfetched.

Satoru Hosonaga = Nozi Mon (nosy man) -double reference to his running nose AND his talent to smell a trail, and suspect things in his investigations ...actually 90% of his actual Japanese name.

Taizou uzukumaru = Sajen/Saajen Tohissa (sargent officer) (dumb translation, suiting name, could be made better)

Sanmon Sonihigurashi = Wanagetto Momoni (wanna get more money) conveys the general idea of the original name, although not literally through the same proverb.

Jezail Brett = Gizelle Brett (jezail bullet+ reference to Mr Jeremy Brett with the spelling of the name!) a realistic REAL name for a REAL girl born in Victorian England. An actual pun like in all AA games.

Mitrov Stroganov = Mitrov Stroganof (meatloaf Stroganov is transparent enough, imho)

Nicomina Bortschtevitch = Smetana Bortschtevitch ( for lack of finding a Russian-sounding realistic feminine first name meaning "to boil" or describing food or a reciepe, Smetana, meaning whipped cream, and sounding like a real name cf Svletana)

Dimitri Demiglaski = Dimitri Demiglaski?? (What would be the use to change)

Hart Vortex = ? Harry Caine (for hurricane-> keeping the general meaning of Hurt Vortex, but choosing names that are more realistic for a British citizen! ^_^)

Cosney Megundal = Winnie Fortune (win a fortune) (exact literal meaning)

The following official in sir Arthur Conan Doyle's works should remain unchanged (!)

Sherlock Holmes

Dr. John H. Watson

John (& Joan) Garrideb (pun observed in dialogue between hero+assistant observing that to them (who are Japanese ! ) it sounds like "fatty and thinny", and that it suits them well)

Natsume Souseki (real person!)

Tobias Gregson

Oscar Fairplay (unofficial bit might as well keep it simple)

Adam Ladyfirst (the same: keep it simple)

(The following are changed/adapted again)

Morta Milverton = Mortimer 'Morty thrice-fired' Milverton

Pat & Lola O'Malley = Pat & Loreen O'Fisher (patrolling officer)

Viridian Green = Olive Greene (or Olivia Green/e)

Hutch = Hutch ( maybe to improve )

Egg Benedict = Egg S. Benedict

For the Tinpillar brothers : better than the Parson, that was suggested above:
Beindit (like bandit!) As in Japanese their name means crook, thug, thief...
Nemmy Tinpillar = Dominik Zack Beindit = D-Z/Dizzy Beindit (dizzy bandit 100% translation)

Tully Tinpillar = Lars Zack aka 'Lay-Z' Beindit (lazy bandit)

Uzzeh Tinpillar = Earl/Ernest Zack Beindit = E.Z. Beindit(easy --- false translation, but the **-zy adjectives only go so far... at least follows the same paytern, which is realistic among a brotherhood.)


Rubert "Crogley" Milverton = Rupert "Greynoir" Milverton (greynoir is EXACTLY to the English language what kuro-grey is ti the Japanese: FIRST the part in native language (kuro in original japanese, grey in this example in target translated language English)+ SECOND PART a 'poshy sounding foreign language most people should be able to vaguely recognize' here the French word noir which is EXACTLY to Englush audiences like the English word 'grey'/gley is to the Japanese audience!)
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Prefer 'Redifast' to 'Ladyfirst',as the latter makes no sense. For the former,the pun would be that his hats are made READY FAST. Haha. And we already have an Iris,so I'd say Alice would be better.
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Re: English Name Suggestions for DGS Characters (Spoilers?)Topic%20Title

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Choky wrote:
Er, yes, the two Empires ARE CLEARLY Japan and Great Britain. ^^" it seems unnecessary and weird to change locations.

As for Wright/Right, I'm sorry if I left a misconception that might have been confusing.
Of course both sound the same and both would be katakanized the same in Japanese (i.e. Ra-i-to).
BUT what I mean is that realistically speaking, it is not just a matter of bijection (see maths)
concretely: wright or right (OR LIGHT!)transcribed INTO Japanese phonetic = Raito.
However, when we transcribe names into an alphabetical language (many exemples IRL!) we use the most natural way to spell it. So, IF a Japanese immigrant was called Raito in his original language and that was his patronym, it would be 'Englishized" as Right ou Rite or even Ritoh, not as Wright, the mute W being useless to transcribe any sound. On the other hand, that mute W could serve as a marking of a deleted initial sound in the original language. Like a U that came to be pronounced fast, then disappeared.

This is how etymology and linguistic work!

Also, as for the "Nick" nickname, precisely my point.
YES, Susato WOULD nickname him Nick, because that would be how one can transcribe, in an English version of a translated part that the player KNOWS is in Japanese (because characters ARE Japanese in Japan in the 'reality' of the setting) the use of a -san (or -sama in this case due to late 19th century use!) or -kun suffix, and the accompanying tone of connivence and affability.
Thus it would be exactly the same for us all in English, reading English, playing in English, but KNOWING the characters speak in Japanese among themselves, just as ot is to Japanese when watching Rocky or Jack Bauer dubbed in Japanese, but they see and know that 'in reality' 24 or the Balboa 'biopic' movies involve English-speaking characters.

Having a name like Hikari, meaning light, and possible to spell with kanjis that Susato would misread as 'Nikkasu' i.e. phonetically Nicks, and that a localization trick can explain by periphrases in the dialogue could yield in no time a short form of Nick for 'Nikksu'/'Nicks'.

This can be done and serve the immersion of the players.
Probably easier than Suzaku and the fire bird theme, as light is an easy concept, and the Nick nickname would be highly preferable for the game rendering and overall feeling.

As another note, if Raito seems sooooo vital to the general audience that wouldn't be able to imagine that in 6 generations (at least!) a character and a character's grand grand grand grand grand child do not have the same family name anymore, it might be conceivable. But it is infinitely less realistic to gave Raito become Wright than just have a totally different Japanese name (including ones like Yuuno/you know, that would make a pun!) which would just have been changed in the many decades through marriage with local citizens of Western English-speaking countries.


You are correct that, if "Raito" were localized to English normally, it would probably not be spelled "Wright." I fail to see why this matters.

My objection to Susato using "Nick" is because I cannot see her addressing Ryuunosuke that casually. To do so feels wrong on a very fundamental level... To be honest, I do not understand much of your argument there. Your sentence does not make sense; at the very least, you do not know what "connivence" means. If your argument is that the use of "san" and "sama" can be used to convey the information anyways, then I must vehemently argue against you. That feels akin to staining the Mona Lisa with hot sauce, then painting over the entire thing so no one will notice.

I think you need to consider how the names sound a bit more. "Suitsuisupa" is a gorram tongue-twister, "Greynoir" sounds really dumb, "Smetana" is far too close to "Smegma," etc. Harry Caine is pretty sweet, though. If you want to go with something off of bandit, "Bandito" might be better; "Beindit" is blurring too close to "Benedict" in my mind. also i don't know how you equate 小銭を恵んでやる to "win a fortune" but that's neither here nor there.
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