Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
迷探偵
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"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Ash wrote:
Somewhat more seriously, I'd like to see a story set in a building full of secret hallways, hiding places and other secrets (somewhat like Myouryouji/"Ninja-dera"), that is, the point is that the existence of secret hallways is actually known beforehand to most/all, instead of revealed as a surprise during a trial. And yes, such an open secret can still work in a detective novel, Ayatsuji Yukito practically built his career on it. The problem of the story can for example revolve around who knows about which secret hallways, or whether a person could have used one for the murder (i.e. one person doesn't fit through a secret tunnel, another person can't be in secret room A without being seen by someone in secret room B). Such a story would focus a lot on character movement of course... and maybe video evidence (GS1-5) would also be of use here.
...Like Super Mario 64?
Seriously though, that does sound intriguing. Do you have a suggestion for an overarching plot and (main?) protagonist?
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Though I have to wonder: should we set the limit on how intricate a murder plot can be, and where are the bounds? For something on such a large scale of misdirection, the criminal would either need lots of time or an accomplice or two, and neither option comes easy... unless said criminal is the mastermind behind some sort of crime ring or the Yakuza. But, a crime ring and the Yakuza have been involved in several cases already. To make this one really shine, we'll need to make the encounter dangerous enough for our attorneys to exchange main roles. (Since there's already a lot of switching around in GS5, I think it's likely the dev team would take that route again. It'd be more familiar territory by the next game. Of course, this is only if my multiple crime scene concept comes to light.)
...Maybe we should stick with a single building, if just to better focus attention on a case.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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With the subway plot, it would make no sense to get more people (=liability) involved, if the goal is to confuse the investigation by leaving fake crime scenes: it would just leave more clues leading back to the real murderer, I say from a murderer's point of view. From a story-telling view, it might work because you'd have leads back to the real murderer. Maybe have multiple 'minor' crimes at each of the fake crime scenes, then the three-way zapping system trial thing, which in turns leads to the real crime scene / murderer. Or something like that.
Oh, and personally, I hope this team can let go of the interconnected cases equals story thing for once, and go for a more theme-focused approach. As a follow up to the aftermath of the dark days of law, I would like to see something on the media. Sure, we have seen 'reporters' before, like Lotta or Sweat-Guy, but I'd like to see a story with more serious reporters, and more about how the legal world is seen in the 'normal' world through the eyes of the media.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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As I've mentioned before, after every age and revolution, there must be a period of reconnaissance, reform, and re-instantiation to set the country back on track. I memorize it as the 3 R's. (Hey, I found a new subtitle!) So far in the series, we've faced varying degrees of local corruption and even expanded upon that corruption overseas. With the latest game, it was meant for the resolution of a case to mark the beginning of the end for the Dark Age of Law. (As to how well it was applied, I have a few dissents on my part.) To follow up on that, the next step is reconnaissance - that is, surveying the country to see what the effects of these efforts have led to. The media will be all over this step.
Let's see how the dev team, whether or not it's still the same team that works on it, handles the progression.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'd like to see Thassala Gramarye as the defendant in one case, so that Phoenix can tell Apollo and Trucy that she's their mother (assuming that Phoenix hasn't already told them at some point before/during DD).
That subplot really has to be resolved. You can't just end a game by revealing something like that and then never bring it up again...
The problem with that idea, I feel like, is that absolutely everybody Phoenix knows has gotten/gets suspected for something all the time. It just feels a implausible. Of course I don't mean to bash your idea or anything, I would just prefer some other way to raise the stakes.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
That's what I had pictured when I first came up with it. It's like one big magic trick, but with not-so-generous intentions. Ironically, Trucy of all people would have a better handle of such a case, it being within her field of experience. That would give her a better position than anything that GS5 had handed her.
Considering that Awasaka Tsumao, a detective writer who is of a big influence on Takumi, has a series on a beautiful female magician-detective, I wonder what Takumi would have done with Trucy had he continued writing the series.
Oh, and on the attorney's badge as the decisive evidence, lots of possibilities there! The most obvious one being something with fingerprints (in the first day of the investigation, you present it to person X who takes it in his hand to examinate it. And then the person X in the last day of the trial turns out to be a different person from the one from day 1, or something like that).
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Still, I prefer something with a little more drama or flair. Have someone bash something on Phoenix's head, knocking him out, and steal his attorney's badge. That'll prevent him from defending someone for a day, so either Apollo or Athena takes on the case as a substitute. Later in that case, he recovers his head and his badge, takes the defense's bench again, and shoves his reclaimed badge in the face of the person who struck him, as his decisive evidence.
It doesn't have to be the end-all piece of evidence, but it sure will be decisive. Let the Take That! bubble fall on the screen.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Thane wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
I'd like to see Thassala Gramarye as the defendant in one case, so that Phoenix can tell Apollo and Trucy that she's their mother (assuming that Phoenix hasn't already told them at some point before/during DD).
That subplot really has to be resolved. You can't just end a game by revealing something like that and then never bring it up again...
The problem with that idea, I feel like, is that absolutely everybody Phoenix knows has gotten/gets suspected for something all the time. It just feels a implausible. Of course I don't mean to bash your idea or anything, I would just prefer some other way to raise the stakes.
She doesn't have to be the defendant, she could be one of the witnesses to the crime (actually seeing it this time).
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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jaydrick0620 wrote:
I want a sub-1 and third level of psyche-locks, like white locks for white, innocent lies and burning, color-changing psyche locks for a secret dark, powerful and so hidden that the person has forgotten about it. Or something like that.
I never, ever really like fan ideas on Psyche-Locks. However, while I don't support specifically your ideas, if handled correctly, I would like to see something new on the matter.
Spoiler: 5-5
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Sligneris wrote:
jaydrick0620 wrote:
I want a sub-1 and third level of psyche-locks, like white locks for white, innocent lies and burning, color-changing psyche locks for a secret dark, powerful and so hidden that the person has forgotten about it. Or something like that.
I never, ever really like fan ideas on Psyche-Locks. However, while I don't support specifically your ideas, if handled correctly, I would like to see something new on the matter.
Spoiler: 5-5
Spoiler: Psyche-Locks
POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Re: GS6 Ideas
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jaydrick0620 wrote:
I want a sub-1 and third level of psyche-locks, like white locks for white, innocent lies and burning, color-changing psyche locks for a secret dark, powerful and so hidden that the person has forgotten about it. Or something like that.
Nick be trippin' on soul.
By the way, Psyche-locks do NOT determine how strong a lie is; only how strongly the person wants to keep it a secret. Magatama =/= lie detector.
linkenski wrote:
I want a case where Thalassa is the defendant and Apollo's mysterious dad is the culprit. That could be amazing.
Zak clearly stated that his dad passed away during an accident. Now, I know Thalassa miraculously survived, but it would be a bit too much disbelief to suspend if his dad had been hiding from society all this time. It's enough that she's been hiding too, albeit unintentionally.
aplab23207 wrote:
Spoiler: Psyche-Locks
...Okay, I thought you were kidding when you first posted this. For your info,
Spoiler:
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
jaydrick0620 wrote:
I want a sub-1 and third level of psyche-locks, like white locks for white, innocent lies and burning, color-changing psyche locks for a secret dark, powerful and so hidden that the person has forgotten about it. Or something like that.
Nick be trippin' on soul.
By the way, Psyche-locks do NOT determine how strong a lie is; only how strongly the person wants to keep it a secret. Magatama =/= lie detector.
Right, right. Fergat.
But I do want something scarier than Black locks.Sligneris wrote:
jaydrick0620 wrote:
I want a sub-1 and third level of psyche-locks, like white locks for white, innocent lies and burning, color-changing psyche locks for a secret dark, powerful and so hidden that the person has forgotten about it. Or something like that.
I never, ever really like fan ideas on Psyche-Locks. However, while I don't support specifically your ideas, if handled correctly, I would like to see something new on the matter.
Spoiler: 5-5
Wow. Didn't know that.
Could there be a revamp of perceive? Do you guys have any idea for a new gameplay element? 
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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If we expect a mechanic to be "enhanced" or "upgraded", I expect it to be another of Athena's (or Ema's?) fancy gadgets. (Apparently, she can view the Court Record at any time she likes, thanks to Monita. It may also be thanks to her that we have an investigation memo...) Perceive and Psyche-locks are already pretty set on their own and encompass a wide range of possibilities.
One aspect to the Mood Matrix that I was slightly disappointed with is the fact that there are only 4 emotions that represent an incredibly wide spectrum of emotions. Technically, you could chalk most of them up to a mix of the "primary" emotions, but if we're going by "primary", there are six in total: joy, anger, sadness, fear, shock, and disgust (seven, if you include "deep grief" or "despair"; in contrast, "confusion" is simply a mix of incompatible emotions).
Beside that, though, there's not much more room for the Mood Matrix. DD is rather thorough with using it to its maximum potential. Honestly, I'm hoping for a more compact version of a forensics lab, but that may be pushing it. (Ema, we need you and your science! Come back!)
...Well, we could always play around with more moving objects on the screen. I was so hoping to be able to change the holographic images on that projector in one of the shuttle bays. Sadly, we had to play that segment as Phoenix.
Speaking of which, about that one case idea with video games...
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Unrealistic and too overloaded, but I'd enjoy a case involving GYAXA, one of the Feys, and magicians, combining core elements from at least 2. For example,
Spoiler: GS5
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Professor Layton VS Gyakuten Saiban already showed what a somewhat more free trial environment can do, and it was awesome (in fact, I think the mob trial system and related systems were much better suited for the trial atmosphere, than the mood matrix). And with a certain event in GS5... I think we could have a single trial w/o the usual rules...
Oh, and a prosecutor, or attorney who specializes in concocting obviously wrong, yet hard to disprove theories! Someone who specializes in logic and storytelling.
Wait... I want a detective writer / prosecutor.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Ash wrote:
The trick being that these are not courts of law: while the goal is still to convince the judge, the defense and prosecution have a bit more leeway in their handlings (as they don't have to follow the rules).
I can only see this as the cause of an incident that eventually makes its way to an actual court of law to be resolved legally. However, we can play with that idea: it's not only one particular trial, but many to be discovered and "corrected", perhaps even all at once - that is, hold a trial for the rigging of such private trials in the first place and resolve selected cases that have earned the wrong verdicts along the way. It'd be a massive operation, but one befitting of the work of certain legendary attorneys. (Admittedly, this idea may not quite work for a single case simply because it'd be such a massive operation.)
It'd also be an example case setting for the corrupt judge idea I've had. The judge in a private trial becomes a judge of a public trial, and things can get pushy.
Quote:
Professor Layton VS Gyakuten Saiban already showed what a somewhat more free trial environment can do, and it was awesome (in fact, I think the mob trial system and related systems were much better suited for the trial atmosphere, than the mood matrix). And with a certain event in GS5... I think we could have a single trial w/o the usual rules...
QFT. We need more chaos in some of these trials. The mobs were especially fun and engaging. Let random, unexpected people in the gallery jump into the trials. Larry and Emil earned their stars as wild cards.
Quote:
Wait... I want a detective writer / prosecutor.
Well, there's that one detective who writes novels during his image training sessions. A prosecuting author would be interesting, though.
Speaking of writers, I'm actually hoping that Uratori returns as a cameo. I'd like to see where her success takes her... and if any of her nonfiction stories involve supernatural events. (It'd be pushing it to say that she'd somehow relate to Medium Valley, though.) After all, Lotta and Himiko have been lingering in the celebrity photo-shoot field.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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And if you meant it as her occupation, it definitely won't happen.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Naturally, Phoenix would be the defendant and lawyer, Pearl would be the prosecutor, and Maya, the
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Chloe wrote:
A trial where Maya is the judge!
Hakari Mikagami and the Judge's Bro have a much better chance at being the judge than Maya.
On a similar note, I'd like to see someone other than the regular judge be in charge of some of GS6's trials, just for a change.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
On a similar note, I'd like to see someone other than the regular judge be in charge of some of GS6's trials, just for a change.
And the Big Bad at the same time.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Sligneris wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
On a similar note, I'd like to see someone other than the regular judge be in charge of some of GS6's trials, just for a change.
And the Big Bad at the same time.
See? This guy knows what I'm talking about. Turnabout Judge!
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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*for a moment pictures an Avengers-style set-up with multiple spin-offs coming together in one big Gyakuten game*
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Ash wrote:
Somewhat more seriously, I'd like to see a story set in a building full of secret hallways, hiding places and other secrets (somewhat like Myouryouji/"Ninja-dera"), that is, the point is that the existence of secret hallways is actually known beforehand to most/all, instead of revealed as a surprise during a trial.
Ooooh, I've been there! A murder at a place like that would indeed be neat.
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
I have to admit: coming up with new game mechanics is tough.
So what? The Gyakuten franchise should innovate through story and mystery, not gameplay. (In my opinion, at least.)
Sligneris wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
On a similar note, I'd like to see someone other than the regular judge be in charge of some of GS6's trials, just for a change.
And the Big Bad at the same time.
As far as I can think, the only "roles" that haven't been the criminal so far are judge, assistant, protagonist, and victim, so... could very well happen :P (Of course, SUDDENLYNEWJUDGE might be kind of a give-away, but...)
EDIT: Oh, and we've never had a returning character be the killer
Spoiler: GK2
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That, and the idea of the victim of a case faking his death and then killing someone who might have helped him out (or something along those lines) would be pretty amazing, too.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Quote:
(Of course, SUDDENLYNEWJUDGE might be kind of a give-away, but...)
Unless we are provided with an other reasonable explanation for that... :P To the point the players themselves think it would be impossible with regular judge.
Spoiler: GS5
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Bad Player wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
I have to admit: coming up with new game mechanics is tough.
So what? The Gyakuten franchise should innovate through story and mystery, not gameplay. (In my opinion, at least.)
I actually think that's the wrong way. Takumi Shuu came up with the basic GS idea because every detective adventure game until then focused on story/mystery/plot, and he felt that the mystery-solving should be the core (hence the division of a story in smaller contradiction-based 'levels' you have to solve). Things like Perceive and the Mood Matrix are just extensions of that (the investigation modes are in comparison very classic, and Psycho Locks are just glorified story flag gates that help streamline those story bits).
It's the translation of the feeling of solving a mystery that should be the focal point. I already mentioned the zapping system, which can play with notions of which persons have knowledge of what at what time (something I especially like in detective novels, and I use it quite often myself). I doubt that anyone here has played Trick DS (based on the awesome comedy-mystery drama), but that game had a surprisingly fun deduction system. It's a bit like GK's logic system only more comprehensive: you could 'combine' several pieces of evidence (testimonies, material evidence etc), which would generate a hypothesis (i.e. 'X is left-handed' + 'Left hand print on knife' + 'Murder weapon proved to be knife' = X is murderer) You'd use those hypotheses to 'battle' in confrontations with other people. The thing was that you could come up with a myriad hypotheses, based on your input, so you could well try to proof a completely incorrect hypothesis.
Oh, and I really, really want to recommend people who can read Japanese to play the PSP games Trick X Logic: basically 犯人当て /Guess the Criminal stories translated to a game. A lot closer to reading/experiencing an actual novel, but if GS shows one side of the spectrum of translating mystery fiction to a game, then Trick X Logic is showing the other side.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: GS6 Ideas
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The satisfaction of finding the contradiction and cornering the foe with it, is what I remember the best about this series. It's not just the story that matters, but it's arguably the biggest selling point of course (and again, why the series desperately need Shu Takumi!)
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Yes, he did a great job in creating original trilogy and could have made a great job in GS4 if it wasn't for a certain circumstances... But don't you think there is a reason he didn't work on GS5?
I think he just run out of ideas himself, really. There is a high possibility all of his ideas now would be mostly forced, because he just doesn't enjoy it that much anymore.
I think you forget he was the person who said the series was supposed to end with GS3 and then with GS4.
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
I have to admit: coming up with new game mechanics is tough.
So what? The Gyakuten franchise should innovate through story and mystery, not gameplay. (In my opinion, at least.)
I actually think that's the wrong way. Takumi Shuu came up with the basic GS idea because every detective adventure game until then focused on story/mystery/plot, and he felt that the mystery-solving should be the core (hence the division of a story in smaller contradiction-based 'levels' you have to solve). Things like Perceive and the Mood Matrix are just extensions of that (the investigation modes are in comparison very classic, and Psycho Locks are just glorified story flag gates that help streamline those story bits).
Well, I said that because I think the AA core gameplay is so strong. The testimony/contradiction-based gameplay is really great. Psyche-locks were good (they're based on that core gameplay), and helped liven up the comparatively boring investigations. I also like logic, even if it's a bit simplistic; it does nothing more than adds as extra (player-controlled) step in the story flags. (So rather than "the story continues when the player has investigated A and B" it's "the story continues when the player has investigated A and B, and then connects them himself".) The stuff beyond that, though... they feel more like gimmicks than anything else. I would much prefer the AA team to focus on making new, unique, exciting, and interesting mysteries than some new gameplay system.
Quote:
Oh, and I really, really want to recommend people who can read Japanese to play the PSP games Trick X Logic: basically 犯人当て /Guess the Criminal stories translated to a game. A lot closer to reading/experiencing an actual novel, but if GS shows one side of the spectrum of translating mystery fiction to a game, then Trick X Logic is showing the other side.
That's actually what I plan on playing once I finish Super Dangan Ronpa 2 xP
linkenski wrote:
People be honest here. I think most of us (or those who, like me, played PW:AA as the first game) can agree that the most tedious parts of PW:AA was investigations. So often in case 3 and case 4 I just had that feeling of "can we just get to the good part about this game again?" and that shows that this series works best because it's more than just an interactive mystery-novel.
I agree, but I actually felt the investigation system in GS5 was much weaker than in the previous titles. It was annoying getting stuck in investigations, but I still had fun exploring, examining stuff, and presenting stuff. In GS5, they strip basically everything out and have you just do the necessary stuff. During most of the investigations I felt like I was on a set linear path (as in trials) and the bottom menu was just there for show. I liked it much better when I felt like I was actually investigating during investigations, and not just in a set straight-line path.
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Bad Player wrote:
I would much prefer the AA team to focus on making new, unique, exciting, and interesting mysteries than some new gameplay system.
Me too, but I wouldn't consider that innovation, because it would still be based on the same set-up Takumi came up with. I have to stress that Takumi's idea was brilliant, but a true innovation for GS, IMHO, would have to be a different/complementary way of translating the mystery reading experience, to a mystery solving - game experience (which might or might not mean extra mechanics).
Bad Player wrote:
Quote:
Oh, and I really, really want to recommend people who can read Japanese to play the PSP games Trick X Logic: basically 犯人当て /Guess the Criminal stories translated to a game. A lot closer to reading/experiencing an actual novel, but if GS shows one side of the spectrum of translating mystery fiction to a game, then Trick X Logic is showing the other side.
That's actually what I plan on playing once I finish Super Dangan Ronpa 2 xP
Trick X Logic is a great detective game I really wish more people would play. Those 犯人当て stories I sent you a while back? I learned the form at the Kyoto University Mystery Club, which has writing/solving those stories as one of its main activities (for almost four decades! There's a whole wall dedicated to all scenarios written for the club). Four of the seven writers of Trick X Logic are actually alumni of the club. And Kuroda Kenji is the scriptwriter of the GS/GK manga. But AFAIK, the games are not known that well outside of Japan (heck, even within Japan...)
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: GS6 Ideas
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Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I would much prefer the AA team to focus on making new, unique, exciting, and interesting mysteries than some new gameplay system.
Me too, but I wouldn't consider that innovation, because it would still be based on the same set-up Takumi came up with. I have to stress that Takumi's idea was brilliant, but a true innovation for GS, IMHO, would have to be a different/complementary way of translating the mystery reading experience, to a mystery solving - game experience (which might or might not mean extra mechanics).
Hmm... Yeah, I suppose "innovation" wasn't quite the right word. I suppose I mean innovation in terms of story/mystery within the AA franchise, rather than within the mystery/detective fiction genre as a whole. Make the assistant the killer, or a returning character the killer, or some crazy locked room, or something like that. Not the plot of a previous game padded out with a new gameplay system.
Also, random off-topic question: how long are the stories in Trick X Logic? Short stories? Long stories? Novellas? Novels?
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Re: GS6 Ideas
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Bad Player wrote:
Make the assistant the killer
I really wonder whether anybody can make it work in a (Japanese ADV) game w/o feeling too much like Yasu ^^'
Quote:
Also, random off-topic question: how long are the stories in Trick X Logic? Short stories? Long stories? Novellas? Novels?
Short stories. Most stories are around 200~400 pages of max. 13x13 characters.... so somewhere around 20 A4 pages? So they're pretty short. And if you don't want to read, you can also listen to a read version :P
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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