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Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Yatta.

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FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
Spoiler: Trial Latter
Edit 1: Image
Karuta for Rubia.

Holy cow in a bun.
Spoiler:
They actually matched up the approximate meanings of the pictures on the cards and spelled out the words (so no mystery there, I guess). I can't quite make out what they all say, but what I can make out makes sense. The Japanese version of the cards simply had one hiragana for each to represent what it was referring to, so was completely free to interpret. It's part of the game, after all.


Quote:
Spoiler:
Edit 18: THEY TRANSLATED THE CASE ART AND IT SAYS BURG
Image
Image

First the Star Trek alignment and now this? Capcom, what is it with you and subliminal messaging??

In the end, I'm still disappointed regarding my Japanese-Italian fusion idea, but what they have localized in this case is impressive.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

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Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
Spoiler: Trial Latter
Edit 1: Image
Karuta for Rubia.

Holy cow in a bun.
Spoiler:
They actually matched up the approximate meanings of the pictures on the cards and spelled out the words (so no mystery there, I guess). I can't quite make out what they all say, but what I can make out makes sense. The Japanese version of the cards simply had one hiragana for each to represent what it was referring to, so was completely free to interpret. It's part of the game, after all.


Quote:
Spoiler:
Edit 18: THEY TRANSLATED THE CASE ART AND IT SAYS BURG
Image
Image

First the Star Trek alignment and now this? Capcom, what is it with you and subliminal messaging??

In the end, I'm still disappointed regarding my Japanese-Italian fusion idea, but what they have localized in this case is impressive.


Spoiler:
The cards say
O: Ouch
W: Wavy
E: Exquisite (I believe anyway?)
N: Nostalgic
4: ...Four .-.
T: Tradition
H: Hound

I later realised that the "R" is actually a "K" (for Kurukuru Tei), but the way that the wisp is set up makes it look like an R.


Also this case gives me the urge to perform rakugo.
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Okay that case and breakdown was fantastic. I got a real "Recipe for Turnabout" vibe in that it didn't really have to do with the main story and was a bit of a fun breather in-between the climax.

Spoiler:
Geiru was great, animations and everything. So was Uendo. Definitely a new series favorite.

And yes I can finally stop harping on "where's muh evil girls again" after Geiru. Thank you Yamazaki. :redd:

Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Turnabout_Lawman wrote:
Okay that case and breakdown was fantastic. I got a real "Recipe for Turnabout" vibe in that it didn't really have to do with the main story and was a bit of a fun breather in-between the climax.

Spoiler:
Geiru was great, animations and everything. So was Uendo. Definitely a new series favorite.

And yes I can finally stop harping on "where's muh evil girls again" after Geiru. Thank you Yamazaki. :redd:


Spoiler:
Although I don't feel like Geriu was truly evil. She was just upset and jealous, but not evil.
I did love her tho, and it's nice to have a female villain who fought back since DD didn't have any and Beh'leeb didn't.


I felt like Athena and Nahyuta bounced off each other really well, and I liked the sort of way they treated each other.
It helped that Nahyuta was as underprepared as she was.
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I haven't finished the case yet, but
Spoiler:
I don't think that's how dissociative identity disorder works. From what I've studied, the multiple personalities don't share the same memory bank. And I don't think someone with DID can switch personalities on will.

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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^
Spoiler:
DID has always been misrepresented in fiction, so don't question it.

I have studied up on cases where a person with it has been able to temper their alternative personality, almost like bargaining, but it's hard to say about the details, like if it's because of an internal or external control. I've never heard of any where the person can keep it completely suppressed and then unleash it at will.

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This case was so much fun!
Spoiler: Case 4 stuff and a little of the AA Manga
The similarity to the Buck Wheatly case in the Manga was interesting. I mean, the same idea of death by buckwheat, and this time the killer had the buckwheat allergy, not the victim.

This was very well done, and I loved the animations and scenes. The alcohol tolerance scene with Uendo was priceless! And all the close-up shots and one off animations were really well done! For a small filler case it served its part, and was very entertaining!

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SuperAj3 wrote:
This case was so much fun!
Spoiler: Case 4 stuff and a little of the AA Manga
The similarity to the Buck Wheatly case in the Manga was interesting. I mean, the same idea of death by buckwheat, and this time the killer had the buckwheat allergy, not the victim.

This was very well done, and I loved the animations and scenes. The alcohol tolerance scene with Uendo was priceless! And all the close-up shots and one off animations were really well done! For a small filler case it served its part, and was very entertaining!


Spoiler:
I noticed that too, which makes me wonder if they took any ideas from it

Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
SuperAj3 wrote:
This case was so much fun!
Spoiler: Case 4 stuff and a little of the AA Manga
The similarity to the Buck Wheatly case in the Manga was interesting. I mean, the same idea of death by buckwheat, and this time the killer had the buckwheat allergy, not the victim.

This was very well done, and I loved the animations and scenes. The alcohol tolerance scene with Uendo was priceless! And all the close-up shots and one off animations were really well done! For a small filler case it served its part, and was very entertaining!


Spoiler:
I noticed that too, which makes me wonder if they took any ideas from it

Probably not.
Spoiler:
The only reason Yamazaki & co. went with rakugo and soba was because they were pulling from Japanese stereotypes. It was to highlight the contrast of the two countries.

Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

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Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: response
Ahh I see, I guess that stereotype must be common enough to end up being repeated XD Especially given all the AA media that's out there now!

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Spoiler:
First of all, I don't get why they called the hamburgers all those strange names. No, but I liked it, although it felt a bit like a first case, only a bit more. At first I found it hard to connect to it, with that start, but around the time Uendo got into the mix it started to get interesting. Being a sucker for DID/multiple personalities-stories, I swallowed this one whole and I liked the character(s). The twist of Owen being a little kid rather than a bloodthirsty killer was nice and also made it feel a bit more realistic. The whole thing turned out quite sad and I'm impressed it actually managed to compose itself after that silly breakdown.
Although a short case, it was nice seeing Athena be a lawyer on her own... well, slightly. Simon was fun and a nice aid, and I was glad to have him back. His nerdiness and passion are always delightful.
Nahyutas necklace breaking and attacking him is kiiinda losing its impact now...
I'm glad the defendant sobered (sobarad?) up by the end at least (and did they just admit the existance of alcohol straight-out! xD), because I couldn't stand him at first. Especially with that animation where he looks like he's about to throw up, it almost made me feel sick myself just seeing it. Even Starbuck's (yawn) sighing (yawn) animation that looks like a (yawn) yawn and therefore makes me yawn is preferrable. (Yawn) Aw, dang it.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Quote:
First of all, I don't get why they called the hamburgers all those strange names.

I know, right? It's obviously pizza and spaghetti they were serving... and chocolate-filled donut holes. Totally not still bitter about this

Quote:
and did they just admit the existance of alcohol straight-out! xD

Well, dang. Now Phoenix actually has a defense about his grape juice bottles. This is an outrage.

So, uh, can anyone share with me how
Spoiler:
Nahyuta recited his rakugo scripts? I really hope they didn't just translate the lines, because it'd lose the whole joke.

Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

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Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
So, uh, can anyone share with me how
Spoiler:
Nahyuta recited his rakugo scripts? I really hope they didn't just translate the lines, because it'd lose the whole joke.

Spoiler:
The story takes place on a winter's night. A man orders a bowl of soba at a street stall.
How ya doin' sir? What can I get for ya?
I see you've got seaweed-topped hanamaki soba, and mixed topping shippoku soba.
I'll have a bowl of shippoku, my good man. It sure is cold tonight, isn't it?
But there's nothing like a hot bowl of noodles and soup to warm the soul!
Ya know it, sir! One shippoku, comin' right up!
So, how's business?
Not so great, sir.
Is that so? Well, that's great, because things can only get better from here, right?
The customer talks on and on like this.
Finally, when he is done eating, he goes to pay for his soba.
So how much do I owe you?
That'll be sixteen mon, sir.
I see... Sorry, but I only have small change on me.
I'll count the coins into your palm, so could you hold out your hand for me?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight...
Hey, what time is it?
It's nine, sir.
...Ten eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Thanks, and bye!

So what's the joke in the Japanese script?

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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sumguy28 wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
So, uh, can anyone share with me how
Spoiler:
Nahyuta recited his rakugo scripts? I really hope they didn't just translate the lines, because it'd lose the whole joke.

Spoiler:
The story takes place on a winter's night. A man orders a bowl of soba at a street stall.
How ya doin' sir? What can I get for ya?
I see you've got seaweed-topped hanamaki soba, and mixed topping shippoku soba.
I'll have a bowl of shippoku, my good man. It sure is cold tonight, isn't it?
But there's nothing like a hot bowl of noodles and soup to warm the soul!
Ya know it, sir! One shippoku, comin' right up!
So, how's business?
Not so great, sir.
Is that so? Well, that's great, because things can only get better from here, right?
The customer talks on and on like this.
Finally, when he is done eating, he goes to pay for his soba.
So how much do I owe you?
That'll be sixteen mon, sir.
I see... Sorry, but I only have small change on me.
I'll count the coins into your palm, so could you hold out your hand for me?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight...
Hey, what time is it?
It's nine, sir.
...Ten eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Thanks, and bye!

So what's the joke in the Japanese script?

Damn, they did translate everything.
Spoiler:
It's a similar concept to the original, where the clincher is about the customer paying the wrong amount. The thing is, it's not the only humor in this skit, and I see once translated, the intro doesn't seem like anything else but buildup.

So I guess it works out in the end, but it feels... less in a way.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

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Spoiler: response and question
After Nahyuta does the rakugo skit, Simon then explains the joke to Athena, who still doesn't get it. Was this added in to just help us understand? Or was that part the same in the Japanese one?

Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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SuperAj3 wrote:
Spoiler: response and question
After Nahyuta does the rakugo skit, Simon then explains the joke to Athena, who still doesn't get it. Was this added in to just help us understand? Or was that part the same in the Japanese one?

It's the same.
Help! My parents are Phoenix Wright & Miles Edgeworth! Er, I mean they're irresponsible drunks!

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Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I'm not mad! I...I'm just angry.

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Not bad for a short case.

Spoiler: culprit
Well, the profile descriptions between Geiru and Uendo made it obvious she was the true culprit from the start. I definitely didn't predict her making a balloon sword and threatening to cut Athena though. I laughed when Simon popped one of her balloons with his blade.

It was sad she murdered a guy who was only looking out for her, and that she never realized that fact.

And I'm not sure what Athena was talking about. The balloon art was actually kind of cute.


Spoiler: co-counsel
Guess it shouldn't have been a surprise that Simon eventually joined Athena at the bench. I enjoyed their interactions, including when he got up in her face (was he shaking her?) and scolded her for giving up too easily.

I liked the bead deflecting, but I am slightly disappointed that Simon didn't set Taka on Sahdmadhi. That would have been worth a few pohlkunkas.


Spoiler: Defense
Something that bugs me about the defense is all the stupid questions they keep asking, or the stupid way they phrase their questions. It's like while they're grasping on to the only nugget in the room, and they'll blow it by asking a straightforward question of an obvious culprit, who needs only to lie to crush whatever theory the defense has. Either that, or they present too many theories or evidence with a complete lack of conviction. Of course, I know the lack of preparation contributes to this especially in Athena's case, but Apollo and Phoenix are guilty of this too.

Oddly, even with all of Simon's and Sahdmadhi's suggestions that Athena wasn't up to the task, and all the times she thought of giving up, I think she still showed more professionalism as a lawyer than Phoenix currently is.


Spoiler: Prosecution
Man, who gave Sahdmadhi a magic jetpack, and then shoved it up his ass? Japanifornia today, Kingdom of Khura'in tomorrow, Japanifornia the day after that (or close enough). Maybe all that traveling made him extra cranky; he was somehow nastier than in the previous trials.

Him reciting the plays was pretty funny though, especially when the Judge got excited about it.


And this is random, but did they have to go with so many awkward shots? You know, first you see the co-counsel all shocked and hunched over, then in the next shot, they're standing up again without having moved to that position.
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Image
...NAILED IT
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Sake Contradiction
How... To my knowledge, they hadn't even mentioned sake at all in the trial. How were we supposed to know that sake knocked someone out when we hadn't been told before? The closest I could've guessed was the raw soba...


Spoiler: Prosecution Taunts
Sad Monk knew about Athena's past mental breakdowns and tried to use it against her. She could have easily gotten another mental breakdown. And if she had, he'd be the worst character (character-wise, not written-wise) in the game.


Also, the full Time Soba story is online: http://jei-jnn.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/s ... -time.html
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mujie wrote:
Also, the full Time Soba story is online: http://jei-jnn.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/s ... -time.html


Nice! I like the laconic, matter-of-factly last sentence.
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Just started this. I see the localization team threw their hands in the air and said "ah, screw it! You win, capcom Japan!". But it's not all bad. All these people from the "Land of Japan"are grounded by the fact that Blackquill is also a japanese-liking fella, and for what it's worth, now I want to know more about Rakugo comedy!

Also, have they stated on any blog who was responsible for this case's writing? The banter is seriously good and the flow is excellent. I love how frequently new witnesses appear, how Blackquill is butted around and how lively the conversations are. There is a point where he goes "do you really expect me to remember all minute details?" And I was like "thank you!" the characters feel really human and stuff, I like it.

It may be weird to have after case 3 (though I think it has merit thematically or at least in terms of cast closure) but I'm quite liking after how slow case 3 was that this peps it up. And like case 2 I love how they tale a "simple is good" approach. I love me some cases in every AA that's simply good fun and don't need to be more than that.
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linkenski wrote:
Also, have they stated on any blog who was responsible for this case's writing? The banter is seriously good and the flow is excellent. I love how frequently new witnesses appear, how Blackquill is butted around and how lively the conversations are. There is a point where he goes "do you really expect me to remember all minute details?" And I was like "thank you!" the characters feel really human and stuff, I like it.

In the interview in the Official Visual Book, Yamazaki talks about how the scenario writer clinched the deal for that episode through an excellent rakugo-style joke, so that rules Yamazaki himself out. Leaves only Eguchi (worked on Mega Man Battle Network as writer/planner) and Fukuda (worked as writer on AA5).
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Even Nahyuta's conversations have more of a spark to them. He even says "let it all go and look forward instead!" Or something to that effect. I know it's silly, but when he constantly repeats the exact phrase "let go and move on" in the remainder of the game it loses its meaning but switching up the wording makes it feel more like a human being talking.

I wish they could let this guy write a fair bit of dialogue in every case, because he's great, and case 2 and 3 were held back by a sense of stale progression throughout their trials I thought.
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I came into this case thinking I'd hate it but I ended up loving it so much.

Spoiler:
Uendo and all his personalities immediately became a favorite of mine. I'm pretty sure that's not how DID works, but for the sake of the game, I can suspend my belief. Geiru was also a good villain, I laughed when her "balloon" boobs popped. Her motivation made me sympathize with her though, and I liked that. I never really sympathized with the culprits from DD, so I'm happy to see a turn around in this game.

This case also better demonstrated Blackquill's power of suggestion imo, especially the part where he told Patches that he would be found guilty of perjury unless he opted to remain silent. On the other hand, I'm not really getting much from Nayhuta. I feel like he has yet to really corner me and make me sweat (the only really impressive thing he had done so far was in case 3 about the chasing a delusion thing, though now I've kinda forgotten what that was in reference to, whoops), but then again I guess none of the prosecutors really had. I really miss Klavier, because he was so different from the rest of the prosecutors in his approach to cases.

Overall, pretty good despite it being a filler case. I wish Apollo had been there, but hey, I'm sure I'll see a lot of him in case 5.
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What did he do this time...?

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Quote:
Spoiler:
I never really sympathized with the culprits from DD, so I'm happy to see a turn around in this game.


Spoiler:
Yes, I've noticed that they've spent a more time on the killers' motives and actually had them explained. I remember in DD most of the villains had their breakdowns and vanished without any explanations about their motives.

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Turnabout Destiny
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Spoiler: Blackquill
Nahyuta throws his beads once more but Blackquill slices them before they hit Athena and says "not bloody likely." and then goes on later "I don't care for your beliefs".

The characters really shine in this case, all of them, even Nahyuta (for the first time almost). They even use his "Let go and move on" in a way so it doesn't feel so self-indulgent. They openly joke with it when he starts repeating it until Athena interrupts him and yells "never!".

For what it's worth I also don't think this case is irrelevant to the plot for the same reason I don't think the scene with Betsy talking to her colleague is unimportant in Taxi Driver.

Spoiler: Nahyuta
Nahyuta doing that full Rakugo sketch while the camera pans to the others looking dumbfounded was a nice touch. I bet this was the story that writer told the team that led to them creating this case xP


EDIT: Beat the case. While 3 had more going for it in terms of developing a central arc and the new setting, this is my favorite case story and trial segment in the game. It was also a great story.
Spoiler: Theme
...And, there it is again. An unfortunate person who couldn't stand up to the pressure of having to inherit their masters, just like Reus and the Gramaryes, and once again they point out more explicitly this time that this culprit should've "inherited her master's heart and not his name". I have a feeling what this could mean at the end of the day for the grand story, but I'll hold on to that until I'm done.

EDITEDIT:
Spoiler: On second thought
Geiro was Taifu's daughter and she killed him because she despised him giving her a second-place spot for lacking talent unlike Uendo? But why didn't she attempt to kill Uendo then? What I got from this was that she's a really unfortunate human being but it seems too extreme from a writing POV. I know the game is trying to make this point about inheriting a prestigious responsibility but it seemed tacked on when I think about it more in this incident.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
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Stay Woke

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Danchat wrote:
Quote:
Spoiler:
I never really sympathized with the culprits from DD, so I'm happy to see a turn around in this game.


Spoiler:
Yes, I've noticed that they've spent a more time on the killers' motives and actually had them explained. I remember in DD most of the villains had their breakdowns and vanished without any explanations about their motives.


Spoiler:
That's one of the best things I've seen in this game so far. Out of all the DD villains, only Rimes' motive wasn't monetary-based (And he isn't really a villain in the first place). In SoJ, almost every villain has a motive not solely based on money (The closest being Andistan'dhin, and even then his was more about keeping his position)
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I second that. The most definitive step-up with this game coming from DD is how every case they bring up "what would the motive be then?" and every case has a confession at the end and not a last minute "oh his motive was this" in the post-trial wrap-up. I'm very happy with that.

But that said, like I posted before, I didn't think the motive was really too good in this case but I appreciate it wasn't executed as if they didn't even care about it.

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
So, uh, can anyone share with me how
Spoiler:
Nahyuta recited his rakugo scripts? I really hope they didn't just translate the lines, because it'd lose the whole joke.

Spoiler:
The story takes place on a winter's night. A man orders a bowl of soba at a street stall.
How ya doin' sir? What can I get for ya?
I see you've got seaweed-topped hanamaki soba, and mixed topping shippoku soba.
I'll have a bowl of shippoku, my good man. It sure is cold tonight, isn't it?
But there's nothing like a hot bowl of noodles and soup to warm the soul!
Ya know it, sir! One shippoku, comin' right up!
So, how's business?
Not so great, sir.
Is that so? Well, that's great, because things can only get better from here, right?
The customer talks on and on like this.
Finally, when he is done eating, he goes to pay for his soba.
So how much do I owe you?
That'll be sixteen mon, sir.
I see... Sorry, but I only have small change on me.
I'll count the coins into your palm, so could you hold out your hand for me?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight...
Hey, what time is it?
It's nine, sir.
...Ten eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Thanks, and bye!

So what's the joke in the Japanese script?

Damn, they did translate everything.
Spoiler:
It's a similar concept to the original, where the clincher is about the customer paying the wrong amount. The thing is, it's not the only humor in this skit, and I see once translated, the intro doesn't seem like anything else but buildup.

So I guess it works out in the end, but it feels... less in a way.

Well, for what it's worth I still laughed at the punchline even though Blackquill only refered to it. :edgey:
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Mrrrgrrrgrrr

I've not finished it yet but the way it's going...I think this might be....the worst case in this game....maybe several games.

I'll reserve judgement until I've fully finished it.
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I feel it depends on whether you're on the "like" side of the love/hate relationship most have with Athena (and maybe BQ or just DD characters in general).

I wouldn't have liked the case by the end if I didn't already like the first parts of it, so if that's your dilemma I don't think you should count on it redeeming itself :P
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler:
The story takes place on a winter's night. A man orders a bowl of soba at a street stall.
How ya doin' sir? What can I get for ya?
I see you've got seaweed-topped hanamaki soba, and mixed topping shippoku soba.
I'll have a bowl of shippoku, my good man. It sure is cold tonight, isn't it?
But there's nothing like a hot bowl of noodles and soup to warm the soul!
Ya know it, sir! One shippoku, comin' right up!
So, how's business?
Not so great, sir.
Is that so? Well, that's great, because things can only get better from here, right?
The customer talks on and on like this.
Finally, when he is done eating, he goes to pay for his soba.
So how much do I owe you?
That'll be sixteen mon, sir.
I see... Sorry, but I only have small change on me.
I'll count the coins into your palm, so could you hold out your hand for me?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight...
Hey, what time is it?
It's nine, sir.
...Ten eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. Thanks, and bye!

So what's the joke in the Japanese script?

Damn, they did translate everything.
Spoiler:
It's a similar concept to the original, where the clincher is about the customer paying the wrong amount. The thing is, it's not the only humor in this skit, and I see once translated, the intro doesn't seem like anything else but buildup.

So I guess it works out in the end, but it feels... less in a way.

I figure I should explain what I mean, as well as offer a few notes about the Japanese.
Spoiler:
Hanamaki and shippoku are both kinds of soba servings; the former is named after the kind of bowl, the latter is set in soup.

The bit about the stall being bad with business is no surprise given that the name of the stall in question is Nippachi Soba. It's written as "two-eight" but if pronounced "nihachi", it refers to a particular kind of soba that uses 2-part udon, 8-part soba flour. Meanwhile, "nippachi" written the same way can also refer to the months of Feb & Aug, namely the months of "slow business". (This is due to the timing of Japanese holidays like the Christmas / New Year's stretch and the midsummer O-bon Festival, where people spend a lot of money and later cut back.)

Also, the original skit had a bit more to the customer's compliments that make him seem less authentic.

What follows from here is the real clincher about the second customer trying the same trick and messing it up by showing up at four. But these times are based on a more ancient time-counting system. "Nine in the early morning" is actually midnight, while "four at night" is 10 pm.

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linkenski wrote:
I feel it depends on whether you're on the "like" side of the love/hate relationship most have with Athena (and maybe BQ or just DD characters in general).

I wouldn't have liked the case by the end if I didn't already like the first parts of it, so if that's your dilemma I don't think you should count on it redeeming itself :P


I think it's more about whether you like the break from the atmosphere of the rest of the game or not.

Personally, I found myself wondering why I should care about any of that at first (although it got better.)

Spoiler: The whole case
But still, it's pretty glaring that what it's at stake here is the fate of a soba shop when you compare it to the rest of the game. The defendant doesn't even testify, so it's kinda hard to get invested in him (actually, he was the character that made me feel the less after I finished the case, and that includes the killer AND the victim). I think an investigation to get to know the characters better would have helped it greatly.

Also, at times the case was just too Japanese for me to follow. The twist fell flat on my face because I had no idea what the difference between soba and udon is. They should have explained that like they did with rakugo.

This is probably the funniest case in the game, though, I have to concede that.
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Right ok I ground through it and can honestly say it's the worst case in the game. I've not played the 5th case or DLC case yet...but I'm pretty confident in that assertion. Hell it might be worse than anything in the last 3 games.

Knowing my stance on know that there's very little positive I have to say about it here...however most of my problems are technicalish rather than to do with the writing. Here we go.

Spoiler: The whole Case
First off let's talk about themes. The overarching theme in this game seems to be "The World is Against You," and the "Power of Public Pressure". It's not really represented here. It's touched on for a fraction of a moment when Naryuta calls Athena's credibility into question and her super hearing allows her to hear the doubtful whisperings of the gallery. However this never reaches anywhere NEAR the level of relevance of the themes in the other cases. Even then I could argue they already did a whole (bigger and better) case about Athena struggling with her Competence in Case 5-3. I heard a complaint that Case 2 felt like a filler case but no, compared to that this feels like a DLC case that doesn't really have any relevance or significance at all in the story other than "Well...guess we better do something with Athena and Simon."

Now let's talk about length. It should be fine provided the experience is a quality one. I don't usually side for Quantity over Quality but this has neither. The case is about the same length as the Tutorial Case...where everyone stays in Court for one day. There is no investigation, little relevant evidence and even smaller suspects (I'll get to them). Now I know we've had perfectly fine Court-Only cases before, some would even say the Courtroom Experience is THE refined Ace Attorney experience and that the investigation is but a nice addition. However those Court-Only cases in previous games, 3-4 and 5-4, always served a very strong purpose and relevance to the story. They were concise and helped build the overarching narrative basically building the finale into a grander affair. This had nothing to do with anything! The plot is irrelevant and so this kind of tiny filler case doesn't fly and does injustice to all those involved.

Speaking of those involved let's talk characters and story. So a story about a murder in a Rakugo theatre. I normally have pretty high tolerance for the state of Japanifornia but this was TOO Japanese for my liking. Yokai Village was a stretch...but I could accept it as a quaint little borderline-tourist village that had capitalised on a niche from Far Eastern founders. With this it begins with a subject matter I've never even heard of and just runs with it the whole way. It's neat how it allows Simon a chance to shine but it's just hard to feel invested in something that is so clearly not designed for a Western Audience. The humour in "Time Soba" is just...well it's not something I understand. I almost wish I'd seen MORE of it so that I could get a better understanding for Rakugo then maybe I'd appreciate the case more but the case length would never allow it.

I feel the killer was obvious the moment she stepped onto the stand. Geiru's outfit full of balloons, the premise that she was the older performer but Uuendo was being promoted. It's a sad thing perhaps but I was analysing her outfit for breakdown potential the moment she showed up. Plenty of opportunity for all those balloons to pop in dramatic fashion...obvious motive in that she'd been turned up for promotion, it seemed foregone. When she left the stand after like a minute I told myself "Well she's coming back at some point for the REAL interrogation.

Then when Uuendo showed up and actually stuck around for a while...it grew clearer and clearer...there weren't any other suspects...this was all they had to play with. At one point the game asks you to identify a suspect who wore perfume. It's Uuendo who's raising the issue. All the other characters in the profile page are either courtroom staff, dead, or your client. It literally leaves only one true option for the culprit that a baby could bloody solve. It's really disheartening to think that...perhaps it's a result of technical limitations. They can't fit as many characters as they used to in the game. It had been niggling at me after Case 2 and 3 had also had an extremely limited cast of suspects. Case 2 had both be equally devious which left me uncertain who had done it. Case 3 got around it's problem in a VERY clever way with the Suicide ploy that still served as a surprising twist. In this one it's just...ugh.

Talking about Uuendo himself...I don't think his animations and concept are as entertaining as the design team thought they were. For multiple personalites...a complex and delicate matter (way to go Athena in insensitively outing mental health issues again) to be relegated to what is little more than emotions? That's so disappointing and it doesn't really live up to the hype of "Multiple Personalities" it just ends up coming across as the usual "resistant" "neutral" "goofy" emotions almost any character in Ace Attorney ends up with. If your multiple personalities are fully fledged...personalities shouldn't they each have their own range of emotions and feelings? But no Patches is only goofy, Kisame (whatever her name is) is only arrogrant and resistant and Uuendo is only spooked and neutral. If it wasn't for the alcohol-knockout revealing a fourth personality I almost wouldn't believe him about the multiple personality thing. Owen didn't turn out to be too interesting either, with an extremely limited range of emotions and animations.

Naryuta's inclusion also feels forced and pointless. Edgeworth specially requested him there for this case. Edgeworth....SPECIALLY requested that Naryuta...in the middle of a civil uprising in his country fly all the way back to America...to prosecute...a minor-league case about a Soba shop. Hell if he'd done his job as thoroughly as the game bloody implies he does the entire case probably wouldn't have happened. I doubt Jugegu is a neat digger, there'd almost certainly be evidence of the burial of the bloodied udon and it would carry traces of her blood and Taipho's DNA on it. Considering how ridiculous and out-there his investigations are described to be this is a pretty brutal oversight considering the area is actually really small. Overall Naryuta, felt forced and like he really didn't need to be here. I know you cleared out a lot of corruption in the Prosecutor Office Edgeworth but a pathetic filler case like this is exactly the time to bust out a nice cameo...stick Klavier in there...you've got a criminally underused 3D model for him...he gets on well with women there would be a cool dynamic going!

Ultimately this case feels worse than filler. Filler in previous games gets by because the cases are interesting, they are of decent length complete with investigations and they normally come with a complete and interesting cast of characters. This has none of those and what's worse it is the PENULTIMATE case in a game that has been very consistent and powerful in it's tone and themes and it just breaks ALL of that. It feels more like a disgusting ad break for Japanese culture from the main plot.

But here's the positives:
Blackquill is genuinely fantastic in this. I love seeing "Villains" go up against "Villains" and Blackquill is no exception. It's the equivalent of pitting your Megatron action figure against Skeletor. You want to know who's strongest, who is the BADDEST. Blackquill did not disappoint, with his laughter, his mocking of the defence and prosecution alike. One particular great moment where Athena makes a terrible objection and it's BLACKQUILL who demands the Judge give her a penalty. The moment where Blackquill (in first person) grabs Athena and basically tells her to bloody get her act together was actually fantastic. In general it just feels great to have someone as 'powerful' as him on your side and hearing him call "SILENCE" again to the opposition is very satisfying.

Plus the food is pretty good.

That's about it.


Real dampener on what was shaping up to be the best AA game yet for me. We'll see if 5 can pull that back.
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Pierre wrote:
Right ok I ground through it and can honestly say it's the worst case in the game. I've not played the 5th case or DLC case yet...but I'm pretty confident in that assertion. Hell it might be worse than anything in the last 3 games.

Knowing my stance on know that there's very little positive I have to say about it here...however most of my problems are technicalish rather than to do with the writing. Here we go.

Spoiler: The whole Case
First off let's talk about themes. The overarching theme in this game seems to be "The World is Against You," and the "Power of Public Pressure". It's not really represented here. It's touched on for a fraction of a moment when Naryuta calls Athena's credibility into question and her super hearing allows her to hear the doubtful whisperings of the gallery. However this never reaches anywhere NEAR the level of relevance of the themes in the other cases. Even then I could argue they already did a whole (bigger and better) case about Athena struggling with her Competence in Case 5-3. I heard a complaint that Case 2 felt like a filler case but no, compared to that this feels like a DLC case that doesn't really have any relevance or significance at all in the story other than "Well...guess we better do something with Athena and Simon."



Spoiler:
Themes are hard to pinpoint, especially for different people, but in general this game is more about inheritance than anything else. Almost every case has something to do with inheriting and fulfilling a legacy of some sort, and this case fits into that perfectly. But your other points, I completely get.
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One question I had:

When Athena slams the desk, often she seems to slam it twice, very quickly. Is she supposed to do this or is my game glitching out?


I'm (I think) almost done with part 1, and I'm really divided about the case. I'll wait and discuss it after I beat it, but basically I feel like its a fun case and isn't bad by any means but it feels a little out of place to me after the last two cases seemed more "important" to the overall plot. I'm usually one for filler cases but I would have preferred a case that was longer (had investigation segments) and had the whole Japanifornia cast (Apollo, Trucy, Ema) in it. The game was kind of marketed as a "split" game with half taking place in Kurain and half taking place in Japanifornia, but it still seems like the game is skewed towards Phoenix in terms of gametime. Hopefully case 5 will have a lot of Apollo and his gang in it.

Having said that, I still like the case a lot. It just isn't as "big" as I'd prefer it to be.
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D.A. McCoy wrote:
One question I had:

When Athena slams the desk, often she seems to slam it twice, very quickly. Is she supposed to do this or is my game glitching out?


I'm (I think) almost done with part 1, and I'm really divided about the case. I'll wait and discuss it after I beat it, but basically I feel like its a fun case and isn't bad by any means but it feels a little out of place to me after the last two cases seemed more "important" to the overall plot. I'm usually one for filler cases but I would have preferred a case that was longer (had investigation segments) and had the whole Japanifornia cast (Apollo, Trucy, Ema) in it. The game was kind of marketed as a "split" game with half taking place in Kurain and half taking place in Japanifornia, but it still seems like the game is skewed towards Phoenix in terms of gametime. Hopefully case 5 will have a lot of Apollo and his gang in it.

Having said that, I still like the case a lot. It just isn't as "big" as I'd prefer it to be.


Haha my friend thinks she picked that double-desk slam from Simon.

Personally I like some of the little new motions she got.
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She's been double-slamming since DD. She does it quite more often in this game though.
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I recall her doing the multiple slam once in DD. If you press one of O'Connor's statements, she'll slam the desk multiple times while shouting "Hold it!" repeatedly.
Spoiler: AA6 Spoilers
This case is only relevant thematically. One theme of this game is succession, and in this episode it's used as the motive for murder. Other than that, it's pure filler. Athena trying to assert herself as a capable defense attorney means nothing in the overarching plot since she sat out the finale.
Even the cases that are normally accused of being filler cases have more relevance than this. Turnabout Serenade and The Kidnapped Turnabout introduce major characters seen in the final case of their respective stories, for example.

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Pierre wrote:
Right ok I ground through it and can honestly say it's the worst case in the game. I've not played the 5th case or DLC case yet...but I'm pretty confident in that assertion. Hell it might be worse than anything in the last 3 games.

Knowing my stance on know that there's very little positive I have to say about it here...however most of my problems are technicalish rather than to do with the writing. Here we go.

Spoiler: The whole Case
First off let's talk about themes. The overarching theme in this game seems to be "The World is Against You," and the "Power of Public Pressure". It's not really represented here. It's touched on for a fraction of a moment when Naryuta calls Athena's credibility into question and her super hearing allows her to hear the doubtful whisperings of the gallery. However this never reaches anywhere NEAR the level of relevance of the themes in the other cases. Even then I could argue they already did a whole (bigger and better) case about Athena struggling with her Competence in Case 5-3. I heard a complaint that Case 2 felt like a filler case but no, compared to that this feels like a DLC case that doesn't really have any relevance or significance at all in the story other than "Well...guess we better do something with Athena and Simon."

Now let's talk about length. It should be fine provided the experience is a quality one. I don't usually side for Quantity over Quality but this has neither. The case is about the same length as the Tutorial Case...where everyone stays in Court for one day. There is no investigation, little relevant evidence and even smaller suspects (I'll get to them). Now I know we've had perfectly fine Court-Only cases before, some would even say the Courtroom Experience is THE refined Ace Attorney experience and that the investigation is but a nice addition. However those Court-Only cases in previous games, 3-4 and 5-4, always served a very strong purpose and relevance to the story. They were concise and helped build the overarching narrative basically building the finale into a grander affair. This had nothing to do with anything! The plot is irrelevant and so this kind of tiny filler case doesn't fly and does injustice to all those involved.

Speaking of those involved let's talk characters and story. So a story about a murder in a Rakugo theatre. I normally have pretty high tolerance for the state of Japanifornia but this was TOO Japanese for my liking. Yokai Village was a stretch...but I could accept it as a quaint little borderline-tourist village that had capitalised on a niche from Far Eastern founders. With this it begins with a subject matter I've never even heard of and just runs with it the whole way. It's neat how it allows Simon a chance to shine but it's just hard to feel invested in something that is so clearly not designed for a Western Audience. The humour in "Time Soba" is just...well it's not something I understand. I almost wish I'd seen MORE of it so that I could get a better understanding for Rakugo then maybe I'd appreciate the case more but the case length would never allow it.

I feel the killer was obvious the moment she stepped onto the stand. Geiru's outfit full of balloons, the premise that she was the older performer but Uuendo was being promoted. It's a sad thing perhaps but I was analysing her outfit for breakdown potential the moment she showed up. Plenty of opportunity for all those balloons to pop in dramatic fashion...obvious motive in that she'd been turned up for promotion, it seemed foregone. When she left the stand after like a minute I told myself "Well she's coming back at some point for the REAL interrogation.

Then when Uuendo showed up and actually stuck around for a while...it grew clearer and clearer...there weren't any other suspects...this was all they had to play with. At one point the game asks you to identify a suspect who wore perfume. It's Uuendo who's raising the issue. All the other characters in the profile page are either courtroom staff, dead, or your client. It literally leaves only one true option for the culprit that a baby could bloody solve. It's really disheartening to think that...perhaps it's a result of technical limitations. They can't fit as many characters as they used to in the game. It had been niggling at me after Case 2 and 3 had also had an extremely limited cast of suspects. Case 2 had both be equally devious which left me uncertain who had done it. Case 3 got around it's problem in a VERY clever way with the Suicide ploy that still served as a surprising twist. In this one it's just...ugh.

Talking about Uuendo himself...I don't think his animations and concept are as entertaining as the design team thought they were. For multiple personalites...a complex and delicate matter (way to go Athena in insensitively outing mental health issues again) to be relegated to what is little more than emotions? That's so disappointing and it doesn't really live up to the hype of "Multiple Personalities" it just ends up coming across as the usual "resistant" "neutral" "goofy" emotions almost any character in Ace Attorney ends up with. If your multiple personalities are fully fledged...personalities shouldn't they each have their own range of emotions and feelings? But no Patches is only goofy, Kisame (whatever her name is) is only arrogrant and resistant and Uuendo is only spooked and neutral. If it wasn't for the alcohol-knockout revealing a fourth personality I almost wouldn't believe him about the multiple personality thing. Owen didn't turn out to be too interesting either, with an extremely limited range of emotions and animations.

Naryuta's inclusion also feels forced and pointless. Edgeworth specially requested him there for this case. Edgeworth....SPECIALLY requested that Naryuta...in the middle of a civil uprising in his country fly all the way back to America...to prosecute...a minor-league case about a Soba shop. Hell if he'd done his job as thoroughly as the game bloody implies he does the entire case probably wouldn't have happened. I doubt Jugegu is a neat digger, there'd almost certainly be evidence of the burial of the bloodied udon and it would carry traces of her blood and Taipho's DNA on it. Considering how ridiculous and out-there his investigations are described to be this is a pretty brutal oversight considering the area is actually really small. Overall Naryuta, felt forced and like he really didn't need to be here. I know you cleared out a lot of corruption in the Prosecutor Office Edgeworth but a pathetic filler case like this is exactly the time to bust out a nice cameo...stick Klavier in there...you've got a criminally underused 3D model for him...he gets on well with women there would be a cool dynamic going!

Ultimately this case feels worse than filler. Filler in previous games gets by because the cases are interesting, they are of decent length complete with investigations and they normally come with a complete and interesting cast of characters. This has none of those and what's worse it is the PENULTIMATE case in a game that has been very consistent and powerful in it's tone and themes and it just breaks ALL of that. It feels more like a disgusting ad break for Japanese culture from the main plot.

But here's the positives:
Blackquill is genuinely fantastic in this. I love seeing "Villains" go up against "Villains" and Blackquill is no exception. It's the equivalent of pitting your Megatron action figure against Skeletor. You want to know who's strongest, who is the BADDEST. Blackquill did not disappoint, with his laughter, his mocking of the defence and prosecution alike. One particular great moment where Athena makes a terrible objection and it's BLACKQUILL who demands the Judge give her a penalty. The moment where Blackquill (in first person) grabs Athena and basically tells her to bloody get her act together was actually fantastic. In general it just feels great to have someone as 'powerful' as him on your side and hearing him call "SILENCE" again to the opposition is very satisfying.

Plus the food is pretty good.

That's about it.


Real dampener on what was shaping up to be the best AA game yet for me. We'll see if 5 can pull that back.



I agree with most everything in your evaluation of case 4.

Spoiler:
Yeah, it was too Japanese for me too. I really just wasn't that interested in the situation.

As you also said, Blackquill was awesome. He basically was the only one who made this case bearable - I loved basically everyone moment with him in it. Taking on "Sad Monk", fetching Taka to buy those Sake buns, and revealing Geiru's injuries were the highlights.

I don't exactly agree with it all, though. I'm used to AA having filler cases, and this was no different. It would have worked better if we had more development for Nahyuta - but he ended up becoming more stale.

I also had no idea Athena was going to be the protagonist for this case. The game was marketed as Phoenix and Apollo as the two main characters, but then Athena got a pointless case.

Thankfully the case is entertaining enough, but it really didn't need to exist. But that's just an AA filler case for ya.

Want to play my custom-made Ace Attorney case made on Ace Attorney Online? (you must be using Firefox to run it)
Turnabout Destiny
Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Pierre wrote:
Spoiler:
Talking about Uuendo himself...I don't think his animations and concept are as entertaining as the design team thought they were. For multiple personalites...a complex and delicate matter (way to go Athena in insensitively outing mental health issues again) to be relegated to what is little more than emotions? That's so disappointing and it doesn't really live up to the hype of "Multiple Personalities" it just ends up coming across as the usual "resistant" "neutral" "goofy" emotions almost any character in Ace Attorney ends up with. If your multiple personalities are fully fledged...personalities shouldn't they each have their own range of emotions and feelings? But no Patches is only goofy, Kisame (whatever her name is) is only arrogrant and resistant and Uuendo is only spooked and neutral. If it wasn't for the alcohol-knockout revealing a fourth personality I almost wouldn't believe him about the multiple personality thing. Owen didn't turn out to be too interesting either, with an extremely limited range of emotions and animations.

Okay, now this I can't let slide.
Spoiler:
Uendo's design, animations, and personalities are all intricate references to rakugo. For instance, rakugo usually has a conversation between two people, and the performer will represent/differentiate the two by looking left for one of the characters and right for the other--which is why Patches is always facing one direction and Kisegawa is always facing another. The fan that Uendo is always playing with? It's one of the two exclusive props that rakugo performers use. And all three of his personalities are basically rakugo stock characters.

I'm not going to fault you for knowing this stuff, or say that you should have liked him, but his design is a lot deeper and more intricate than you may have realized :P

Re: Case four discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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MBr wrote:
I recall her doing the multiple slam once in DD. If you press one of O'Connor's statements, she'll slam the desk multiple times while shouting "Hold it!" repeatedly.
Spoiler: AA6 Spoilers
This case is only relevant thematically. One theme of this game is succession, and in this episode it's used as the motive for murder. Other than that, it's pure filler. Athena trying to assert herself as a capable defense attorney means nothing in the overarching plot since she sat out the finale.
Even the cases that are normally accused of being filler cases have more relevance than this. Turnabout Serenade and The Kidnapped Turnabout introduce major characters seen in the final case of their respective stories, for example.

Spoiler: All of AA6 cases, including the last one
I think the game had another theme that this case also includes: The tragedy of unnecesary deaths or something like that.

I mean, most victims in the game die for pretty pointless reasons: Mistree died for a grudge so petty that he might as well have died for nothing, Inmee died because of one stupid law, Toneido died because of a misunderstanding, Jove died for being in the wrong place at the wrong time...

But yeah, I've never felt so much like watching anime filler while playing AA than with this case.
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