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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler:
Seeing Prosecutor Ga'ran and Nahyuta stand together makes me think they would be great JRPG villains.

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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler:
Seeing Prosecutor Ga'ran and Nahyuta stand together makes me think they would be great JRPG villains.

Spoiler:
I think if a friend saw me playing at that part they would think I'm playing Fire Emblem. That actually happened when I was playing Layton vs. Wright and Darklaw was on the screen.

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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Is the thread for discussing scenes from the end credits?
Truth will come to light.

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Sure, go for it, but tag spoilers appropriately.
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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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So about the ending....

Spoiler:
It looks like Apollo and Trucy are finally to learn they're half-siblings sometime in the future. I'm just wondering if it will be in the actual sequel or a DLC case for this game.

Truth will come to light.

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SwordKing wrote:
So about the ending....

Spoiler:
It looks like Apollo and Trucy are finally to learn they're half-siblings sometime in the future. I'm just wondering if it will be in the actual sequel or a DLC case for this game.

Spoiler:
I think that they simply want us to assume that they already know in the next game. It's probably their way of resolving that plot thread without spoiling the twist from Apollo Justice. I wouldn't raise my hopes up for an actual scene of them finding out.
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What a weird way to start a case... O.o

Anyway I have two foregone conclusions about this mystery whatever it is
Spoiler: Dhurke
Dhurke was a magician, right? He's Apollo's dad so, duh. I always figured he should be a plot-point anyway because I always pictured Apollo's "dead father" vanished or something. Maybe I'm completely wrong or misremembering the fact, LEL


But still... way to completely take the potential oomph out of a reveal right during the first 10 minutes of a case lol. Maybe this is intentional.
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linkenski wrote:
What a weird way to start a case... O.o

Anyway I have two foregone conclusions about this mystery whatever it is
Spoiler: Dhurke
Dhurke was a magician, right? He's Apollo's dad so, duh. I always figured he should be a plot-point anyway because I always pictured Apollo's "dead father" vanished or something. Maybe I'm completely wrong or misremembering the fact, LEL


But still... way to completely take the potential oomph out of a reveal right during the first 10 minutes of a case lol. Maybe this is intentional.

Spoiler: 4-4
I'm pretty sure Spark Brushel said Apollo's dad died during a stage show incident

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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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So I must be right on the money unless they take the short way out and retcon it.
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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

I can't be the only one with this ship?

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Spoiler:
I knew it, I remembered Apollo Dad being a magician too. They probably retcon'd it. No way they thought of AA6's plot in 2008
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I just thought of something from Trial Day 1.

Spoiler:
As far I know, neither Apollo or Athena smoke. So why did they have a lighter to use on the Founder's Orb?

Truth will come to light.

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SwordKing wrote:
I just thought of something from Trial Day 1.

Spoiler:
As far I know, neither Apollo or Athena smoke. So why did they have a lighter to use on the Founder's Orb?

Spoiler:
For research purposes? No, actually it's for plot purposes.

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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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SwordKing wrote:
I just thought of something from Trial Day 1.

Spoiler:
As far I know, neither Apollo or Athena smoke. So why did they have a lighter to use on the Founder's Orb?

Spoiler:
I figured it was Dhurke's. It's critical foreshadowing to later in the case.

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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler:
I knew it, I remembered Apollo Dad being a magician too. They probably retcon'd it. No way they thought of AA6's plot in 2008

Spoiler: 4-4
It was never said he was a magician, only that he was a performer.

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

I can't be the only one with this ship?

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Ash wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler:
I knew it, I remembered Apollo Dad being a magician too. They probably retcon'd it. No way they thought of AA6's plot in 2008

Spoiler: 4-4
It was never said he was a magician, only that he was a performer.


Oh thanks for the clearup.

Spoiler: Whole Case
So Gu'ran and Amara have some parallels to Misty and Morgan Fey. Gu'ran being way more successful thought,running the monarch for 20 years.
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Kinda a spoiler, but there's an amazing parody of a certain character in case 5 I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abdX3zjq6-s
It's so brilliant!
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SuperAj3 wrote:
Kinda a spoiler, but there's an amazing parody of a certain character in case 5 I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abdX3zjq6-s
It's so brilliant!

Parody? This is just a high quality rip. :redd:
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sumguy28 wrote:
SuperAj3 wrote:
Kinda a spoiler, but there's an amazing parody of a certain character in case 5 I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abdX3zjq6-s
It's so brilliant!

Parody? This is just a high quality rip. :redd:

It is of the highest quality, and I couldn't stop laughing when I watched it XD
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Wait a second...
Spoiler: Before day 1 trial
I think I missed something. Why did Datz get out of jail? He's there acting like nothing after that awesome moment when Apollo nearly drowned inside Mt. Mitama

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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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linkenski wrote:
Wait a second...
Spoiler: Before day 1 trial
I think I missed something. Why did Datz get out of jail? He's there acting like nothing after that awesome moment when Apollo nearly drowned inside Mt. Mitama


Spoiler:
Trucy got his passport so the police should have let him go
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
SwordKing wrote:
I just thought of something from Trial Day 1.

Spoiler:
As far I know, neither Apollo or Athena smoke. So why did they have a lighter to use on the Founder's Orb?

Spoiler:
I figured it was Dhurke's. It's critical foreshadowing to later in the case.


Spoiler:
I assumed so too, but even so, I thought about Apollo as a possible smoker when Sarge talked about being scared by things like fires and cigarettes and Apollo was like "The things I take for granted". He probably just meant as in being used to such things being around and not thinking anything of it, but still.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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I think I've made a connection well ahead of time about a certain red coat, just by looking at the evidence and remembering earlier optional dialogue in the game...

Spoiler: red coat
This is Jove Justice's coat that's lying in the office, right? What is it with Apollo and wearing jackets as a memento of former loved ones?

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linkenski wrote:
I think I've made a connection well ahead of time about a certain red coat, just by looking at the evidence and remembering earlier optional dialogue in the game...

Spoiler: red coat
This is Jove Justice's coat that's lying in the office, right? What is it with Apollo and wearing jackets as a memento of former loved ones?

Spoiler:
I don't think the game ever explicitly states that it's Jove's coat, but it's a possibility.

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It wouldn't actually make sense considering
Spoiler:
Apollo apparently does not know his dad ever, and why would the coat be there, but I think it's a reference for sure

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EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Ash wrote:
EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler:
I knew it, I remembered Apollo Dad being a magician too. They probably retcon'd it. No way they thought of AA6's plot in 2008

Spoiler: 4-4
It was never said he was a magician, only that he was a performer.


Oh thanks for the clearup.

Spoiler: Whole Case
So Gu'ran and Amara have some parallels to Misty and Morgan Fey. Gu'ran being way more successful thought,running the monarch for 20 years.

Yeah, only this time...
Spoiler:
Amara and Ga'ran are the older and younger sister respectively, while it was vice-versa with Misty and Morgan.

POHLKUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
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Warning: case thoughts are made of long and rambly.

Spoiler: part 1
I have to say, I really like them switching things up with a civil case, even if this one eventually did involve a murder. I kept expecting Dhurke to be put on trial for murder, but fortunately, it did not come to that.

Dhurke - I am in love with this man's daddy skills. lol'd at all his stories about Apollo and Nahyuta running around naked as little kids. When Apollo's life was flashing before his eyes, and he remembered the near-drowning he and Nahyuta had, I just damn near melted.

Nahyuta's limited vocabulary is starting to make sense.

She gotta gat - Armie cracked me up with her armed drone. I had expected some thirty-year-old adult manchild in a wheelchair to be the face behind the technology, so I guess I was half right.

That's FOUR, JFC. Did we really need another Maya kidnapping?

Giant Douche - Paul Atishon-Wimperson was hilarious with all his constant campaigning. I kept laughing every time he walked up to the witness stand like it was a debate podium.

Phoenix - I had suspected he was taking on Giant Douche's case on for a special reason, but I was REALLY hoping it was something Phoenix had under control. I guess Edgeworth was trying to help in the background, but there wasn't much evidence of that outside of the fact they mentioned Edgeworth was randomly in Kurain.

Phoenix's demeanor was great for the first half of the trial. It was exactly what it should have been for the previous trials. He became more unwound toward the end, which, considering the circumstances, would make sense if the whole "Phoenix taking on everything because Maya was kidnapped" made sense. Sure, in 2-4, it's more or less what he does until he lets slip the situation to someone who can help him. But this type of situation doesn't work as well here, given Phoenix's experience and age. I do like that Apollo and Athena tried to help, but the whole thing could have been handled better.

The suitcase as a murder weapon seemed farfetched to me. In the first place, I'm not sure a corner as smooth and rounded as the suitcase's would have drawn that much blood without opening the victim's skull. Second, considering its weight (with Datz' exercise weights) and the distance it fell from, wouldn't the force have snapped the guy's neck? Yet there's no mention of that in the autopsy. And third... if there was that much blood on the corner of the suitcase, why didn't the blood get on other places besides the book, such as the carpet? And for that matter, why didn't we see the blood on the suitcase? Did someone wipe it away? Who would wipe it away, and for what reason? It couldn't have been Datz if he was busy hiding, Archie was dead, and Armie was hiding in her room. So that leaves Giant Douche. I'm going to guess he wiped it because he originally intended the murder to be taken as an accident, but they never seemed to touch up on that.

Good to see Pearl if only briefly. I feel bad her skills as an artist are worse than Larry's, and that Dhurke mistook her for a little kid.

When this case first started, I was confused by Dhurke's sudden appearance and how easily he was moving around. But by the time I got to Archie's study, I knew it was going to be a good case, and probably the best case in the entire game.



Spoiler: part 2. Rambling almost as long as the case itself.
Well, uh, I have to say the spirit channeling musical chairs was a bit of a mindfuck. I'm still not clear on all the clothing changes. I know Ga'ran did a lot of prepping, but they don't mention what happened after Maya channeled Dhurke. I'll assume "he" found an extra set of clothes somewhere since there was no blood (when he went to USA), but it's just weird.

Dhurke - I should've known. Whenever I end up really liking a character THEY END UP DEAD. Especially this DILF. Seriously, though, he's also one hell of a guy. Despite being accused of his wife's "murder," branded a traitor, the crazy family situation, he's got a great attitude. I guess him dying may have contributed to it, but I really liked how he just let everything roll off his back. He may be my favorite character after Edgeworth. I was sad at Dhurke's death... but honestly, at the reveal, I bust up laughing at Apollo's initial reaction... that WAS the most painful *headdesk* I've ever seen anyone make. It did suck he couldn't reconcile with Nahyuta, despite his kind words to him.

Nahyuta - JFC I wanted to slap the shit out of this martyrly, pohlkunan douchebag, if just to say "Snap out of it!" But at the same time, I admire his tendency to sacrifice himself for his loved ones. I got why he was such a broken record in earlier trials ("let it go and move on"), and I'm sure he despaired like hell. I was worried he would be passive until the end, but I cheered when he finally told Ga'ran to go fuck herself.

Apollo - wow. Kind of crazy his history is tied to this country. I hate that Dhurke was already dead, but I'm glad he got to resolve things with Apollo and give him the picture of his biological dad. It feels weird he stayed in Khura'in, but I like the idea of him working with Nahyuta and helping rebuild a shattered legal system. It's nice he has his own office now, but it felt like they were really pushing to divorce him from WAA, at least temporarily. It's like the writers were spending this whole time trying to give Apollo the game he should have had two AAs ago. AA7 better have some seriously hot Apollo action. Oh, and I guess some action for the rest of his family since they need to address that. (Glad I'm not the only one wondering if Phoenix feels just a tiny bit guilty knowing what he does about Apollo and Trucy?!)

Apollo's lineage - Kind of crazy that Jove just happened to be there in Khura'in with Queen Amara when the fire started! I still think the part about Thalassa is unclear... Wasn't Thalassa the one who voluntarily gave Apollo up for adoption before returning to the Gramaryes? I can't imagine she would just passively accept Apollo's death, not question what happened (unless she did and was told otherwise), and move on. Oh, but nice to "see" Thalassa's return in that epilogue. Wonder if a certain Gavin will return as well? Uh-oh... is it time implement the obligatory tragic parent death countdown?

Khura'in Royal family - I'm getting more Suikoden flashbacks here with the assassinations within the family and the plots to seize the throne. A spoiled princess being held hostage and her brother trying to save her... Even Dhurke reminds me of Ferid and Datz reminds me a little of Miakis (despite being a dude) with his not-so-serious nature.

Queen Amara - Well, surprisingly, I did not see that twist coming, but Nayna did look guiltier with time. I know Amara wasn't 100% innocent, but it bothered me that they kept flipping back and forth on just how guilty she was, only to go back to "Fake out! Ga'ran is secretly mastermind!" I did wonder why they kept her alive all those years. At first I suspected she was the only one who knew the Holy Mother's name... but it makes more sense it was because she had spiritual power while sis did not. I was a little disappointed we didn't get to see the Holy Mother channeled for real.

Queen Ga'ran - My Name is Apollo Justice. You killed my father. Prepare to die. I kind of lol'd at her referring to herself in the plural sense at all times. That was one hell of a transformation in court. I wanted to say she seemed to be directly competing with Blaise Debeste for world's shittiest parent, but since Rayfa was never really her daughter, I'll just say she's the worst ruler who has deluded themselves into believing they are God. It's a shame she killed Inga; they really do deserve each other. Totally digging those ink-dispensing nails, though.



Some random thoughts.

Point to ponder - if spirit channeling generally involves women, and the women rule in Khura'in, and men who marry into the royal family never become king, then why not just call it the Queendom of Khura'in?

Strip-searching Apollo in front of everyone was a bit over-the-top. I wonder if Athena confirmed whether or not there was a tattoo on his butt.

Not really sure why Athena had to come to Khura'in. She doesn't serve as co-counsel and doesn't really contribute to the investigation at all. Though some of the dialogue is funny.

Ema Skye - geez, Nahyuta, if you're in love with her or something, just say it already.

I'm kind of getting tired of these defense lawyers' dumb habit of confronting the big bad about a potentially dook-hitting-fan revelation while THERE ARE NO WITNESSES AROUND AND THEY ARE AT RISK FOR IMMEDIATE RETALIATION. Considering what Phoenix went through in AA1 alone, if there's anything he should have taught his subordinates, it's to take precautions or avoid the situation by approaching it from another angle.

I'm really digging the Khura'in Detention Center BGM.

lol at Edgeworth objecting to the Samurai rip-off show. Guess he's not hiding his obsession any longer. Also LOL at Shah'do trying to eat his cravat.

They were better about leaving a ton of clues around this time for the player, so it was a lot easier to put two and two together.

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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that they did away with the penalty bar in this game when there was a perfect opportunity for an "all or nothing" penalty at the end?

Spoiler: Late case events BIG SPOILERS
Apollo needing to present evidence while being held at gunpoint comes to mind.
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Aeliren wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that they did away with the penalty bar in this game when there was a perfect opportunity for an "all or nothing" penalty at the end?

Spoiler: Late case events BIG SPOILERS
Apollo needing to present evidence while being held at gunpoint comes to mind.


Even though there are variable penalties in this game... :v
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Spoiler: whole case
Found a summary from reddit about the clothes

Most people seem to be getting the events out of order.
Inga killed Dhurke, someone hid the body. Maya channeled Dhurke and travelled to Japanifornia. Inga called Phoenix then talked to Dhurke and set up a meeting. Inga was killed by Ga'ran before they arrived. Ga'ran was wearing the clothing from Dhurke's dead body. After murdering Inga, she put the clothes back. Amara, channeling Inga, ran to the tomb. Amara didn't need a Magatama to separate Inga's soul from her body as she is experienced enough to be able to do it herself. She burned the clothes she was wearing at the back of the tomb. When Dhurke entered the tomb, Amara forced Dhurke's soul from Maya's body then stole Dhurke's clothes and dressed Maya in her original clothes. Then she channeled Dhurke while holding the knife to frame him.

Only part it's missing is that the original Inga came back and put Durke's body in the coffin.
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Jean Descole wrote:
Warning: case thoughts are made of long and rambly.

Spoiler: part 1
She gotta gat - Armie cracked me up with her armed drone. I had expected some thirty-year-old adult manchild in a wheelchair to be the face behind the technology, so I guess I was half right.


Spoiler:
Funny, it was the other way around for me. I saw coming that there was a little girl behind the drone, because this is AA so of course Drill Sergeant Nasty is going to be the less intimidating person ever. And then it turns it's not only a little girl, but a little girl in a wheelchair. Guess my reasoning was on point.


Quote:
Spoiler:
The suitcase as a murder weapon seemed farfetched to me. In the first place, I'm not sure a corner as smooth and rounded as the suitcase's would have drawn that much blood without opening the victim's skull. Second, considering its weight (with Datz' exercise weights) and the distance it fell from, wouldn't the force have snapped the guy's neck? Yet there's no mention of that in the autopsy. And third... if there was that much blood on the corner of the suitcase, why didn't the blood get on other places besides the book, such as the carpet? And for that matter, why didn't we see the blood on the suitcase? Did someone wipe it away? Who would wipe it away, and for what reason? It couldn't have been Datz if he was busy hiding, Archie was dead, and Armie was hiding in her room. So that leaves Giant Douche. I'm going to guess he wiped it because he originally intended the murder to be taken as an accident, but they never seemed to touch up on that.



Spoiler:
Atishon wiped his fingerprints off the suitcase, so it make sense that he also wiped the blood on it and that part of the room. He was the one who rearranged the scene, after all.


EdgeworthxOldbag wrote:
Spoiler: whole case
Found a summary from reddit about the clothes

Most people seem to be getting the events out of order.
Inga killed Dhurke, someone hid the body. Maya channeled Dhurke and travelled to Japanifornia. Inga called Phoenix then talked to Dhurke and set up a meeting. Inga was killed by Ga'ran before they arrived. Ga'ran was wearing the clothing from Dhurke's dead body. After murdering Inga, she put the clothes back. Amara, channeling Inga, ran to the tomb. Amara didn't need a Magatama to separate Inga's soul from her body as she is experienced enough to be able to do it herself. She burned the clothes she was wearing at the back of the tomb. When Dhurke entered the tomb, Amara forced Dhurke's soul from Maya's body then stole Dhurke's clothes and dressed Maya in her original clothes. Then she channeled Dhurke while holding the knife to frame him.

Only part it's missing is that the original Inga came back and put Durke's body in the coffin.


Spoiler:
I don't think it was confirmed that Inga hid the body. It make more sense to me that Ga'ran did that. After all, how else could she knew he was there in order to put on his clothes? I doubt Inga would tell her since he was planning her assassination and all.
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Bolt Storm wrote:
I'm only past the first trial day and a little into the second investigation day, but Here Are Some Things That Have Happened:

Spoiler: 6-5
  • durk comes to see apollo and he’s such a dad. he’s such a dad. he wants to show trucy kid pictures of apollo oh my god he’s such a dad
  • apollo and friends come to see the professor, hear he’s dead, never once consider foul play despite that happening in almost every single case they take
  • pearl appears for literally one scene and then vanishes so hard they take her profile out of the court record after day 1
  • “for the first time in ace attorney history, a civil trial! just kidding it’s murder”
  • phoenix is fighting in court because maya’s been kidnapped and. he sucks at it. like compared to when he went to bat for engarde this is just sad
  • they basically reused that plot from 2-4 btw
  • “HOW WILL WE GET TO KHURAIN!?” *edgeworth walks around the corner having not previously appeared in this game* “Leave that to me.”
  • we hear how apollo’s dad died when he was a kid. okay, sure. later we meet a witness whose mom died saving them from a fire. we expect apollo to empathize over losing a parent, but that’s not enough for apollo fuckin’ justice, no buddy, he’s gonna explain that actually his dad died saving him from a fire too, which is a fact we do not know until, playing as him, we present a photo of his father
  • everyone: “who could the mastermind behind this kidnapping be?” durk: “it’s inga” everyone including inga: “oh, okay”
  • “let’s go to khurain to save maya! except you trucy”
  • apollo proves someone he’s known since childhood is innocent of murder and the guy does not even appear in the lobby after the trial


what the hell is this game



Spoiler:
[list][*] Ema was the detective there, plus they came there for a civil suit it's not like they were expecting a murder.
[*] Yeah pearl was totally sidelined.
[*] Edgeworth was mentioned earlier in the case, searching around Kurain looking for clues about the kidnappping.
[*] I thought Durke mentioned Apollo's dad saving him from the fire before dying.
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler:
First, we take Japan... Then we take Khura'in...

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Going for Miles wrote:
Spoiler:
First, we take Japan... Then we take Khura'in...

Is this a reference to something or in the game?
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Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Wriggling piece of plywood

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Going for Miles wrote:
Spoiler:
First, we take Japan... Then we take Khura'in...

Is this a reference to something or in the game?


Leonard Cohen wrote:
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: Cameo question
A friend of mine is saying there's a Kay reference in the Edgeworth / Phoenix section, but I haven't seen anyone else supporting that. Can anyone confirm/deny? Gumshoe is definitely referenced when presenting the badge, though.
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Wayoshi wrote:
Spoiler: Cameo question
A friend of mine is saying there's a Kay reference in the Edgeworth / Phoenix section, but I haven't seen anyone else supporting that. Can anyone confirm/deny? Gumshoe is definitely referenced when presenting the badge, though.


I don't think so.
Spoiler:
Just the reference to Gumshoe and the fact that Edgeworth did his own investigations. So you can take that to very lightly, vaguely referencing Kay.

Re: Case five discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

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Ugh right OK...didn't want to have to ask for help but I'll consider it.

Spoiler: Investigation First Day Picture box puzzle
I feel there's like 8 different answers to this since a lot of the pictures can be interpreted in different ways. Its really killing the flow for me so can I get a hand please?


Edit: Nevermind I'm a boss
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Infinite Ammo? Try INFINITE GUNS!

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Double posting I know but its not connected to the last post.

I feel in this first trial I have a couple of issues. Not finished it yet but....

Spoiler: First Trial
I find it hard to believe Nick would go against Apollo like this. Or that he'd be so weirdly cold about it. If ever Apollo and Nick were to go at it I'd always imagined it would be on a mutual agreement that they could find the truth from both sides and they would know beforehand. In essence it would be a tag team against a greater villain. Its just a strange dissonance seeing Nick act like this and I'm not sure I find it believable. I mean...the guy have a magic spiritual device that detects lies for Pete's sake! There's no way someone as obviously evil as Atishon could trick him plus the guy openly admits to pushing Apollo and Dhurke into a dark pit where they almost die. That just gets rolled right over as well! I mean even if I believed in the professional differences between Nick and Apollo I don't believe they'd stand up once Nick found out about the attempted murder.

In any case I am pleased to see that they work Nick's "turnabout" magic even when he's basically on the prosecutions side. Turning a civil dispute into a murder case was clever I'll give them that.

However no one has any conclusive evidence...Atishon came out and said he saw Datz leaving but when you discredit him and Nick pulls out his decisive witness...
Sarge comes out and says "well he probably came back and murdered him"

Its nonsense and its no real grounds to hold Datz. Maybe its because of this that I'm having trouble with his testimony. There's nothing concrete tying Datz to the murder but I don't know how to disprove his pathetic circumstantial evidence.


I will say I like how Datz is turning into Apollo's Larry.
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Datz is amazing, I love him to death! XD
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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I'm nearing the end of the first trial I think. Hm. As always it's as if the investigation segments are really interesting but the trials not so much. It started out really nice but really, as with all case 5's in you-know-who's games it's just as if... they're missing something, and like DD this scenario is just weird. It feels like a mix of ideas that aren't supposed to coexist in the same space and half of it is super derivative, which is making it pretty underwhelming to me.
Spoiler: Atishon, Sarge and ties to past games
So obviously, they're rehasing the basic idea for 4-4's case. Some recluse kid survived the death of their single parent who drank some coffee and then died shortly after for reasons. I don't know why Yamazaki has such a hard-on for taking stuff that has already been made and then making alterations of it. It's uncreative and been-there-done-that. I like Sarge kinda, but I just can't appreciate it when I feel like I already know her because she's just Vera Misham 2.0 in a wheelchair mixed with De Killer's radio in form of her toy Chopper with similar animations. This whole trial I thought Wright had some bigger ulterior motive to do this whole ordeal, maybe Khura'in secrets or simply to put Apollo through a test and then Phoenix considering to leave his badge... no? It turns out it's because Maya has been kidnapped, as if it wasn't one cliche too much to have her become the defendant in case 3. The use of Maya in this game is beyond safe. It's almost a parody of itself.

I think SoJ is slowly turning out to be exactly what I expected it to be which is a big shame because once again it showed potential. I can live with bad pacing and the occasionally confused dialogue, or like that time where Apollo says the coffee on the book means Atishon did it, but Wright's like "No, prove it" and you just have to point out the exact same thing on a picture, *gasp* but I just can't stand how they keep taking the short way out when it really matters. They had an amazing originality in Khura'in in general and during investigation day 1. Going to Kurain village is actually kinda cool and so is Atishon at least to begin with, but at the end of the day Yamazaki doesn't really use this shit to its potential because he wanted to mix in some 2-4 and 4-4 into the case. It just suffers as a result. Big time.

The worst thing is there is zero impact in Maya being kidnapped because it happened even more off-screen with absolutely nothing to foreshadow it unlike in 2-4 where we at least meet De Killer making vague threats to create an atmosphere of "something's going on". God damn it, Yamazaki :basil:

The whole rest of the case is gonna hinge on this completely weightless plot-device isn't it? :payne: Wright has already done his "Face-desk" Noooo animation. First the game reiterates a point any fan has seen, so it already has a diminishing return factor but then it starts to relish in it by going through the rest of the setlist of 2-4? Even Apollo has almost the same comments as when Edgeworth realizes what's going on with Maya in 2-4, beat for beat. There is zero drama here. C'mon. Seriously, come on.

Ranty rant, raaaant! Don't read the spoiler if you're in a happy mood xD
But just lastly, xD what kind of revisualization was THAT? Well, DUH, Apollo xD what is going on anymore? The game feels kinda weird.

PS. Easy prediction now that this hole has been dug:
Spoiler: Channeling n stuff
Yeah, yeah, so we need to get ahold of Maya so she can channel the Holy Mother who really turns out to be already channeled. Oh, I wonder who it can be? Probably the Khura'in queen? x(. I knew we were eventaully going to see a lot of 2-2 and 3-5 all over again. Alternatively I could see Rayfa suddenly getting a boost in her willpower and unleashes her potential to channel instead but I've been holding off on any thought resulting in Rayfa = Queen because it would be disgusting when Gah'ran is married to that queen.

EDIT: Oh and of course, no Yamazaki game without the notion of "A mastermind".
Spoiler: obvious
The queen, duh, and if not it's some character who has been absent the entire game until I get to corner them. So un-hype as a final villain because it makes them not a character. It takes some good writing to have a character that sticks around an entire case who actually turns out to be the bad guy. What's wrong with that approach? Too hard to write apparently

EDIT: Although, it could also be that someone is channeling Dhurke. Is the queen channeling Dhurke? EDIT: Scratch that, she's here. Okay, I get it. Maya is channeling Dhurke!
PPS.
Spoiler: old aquantances
Edgey, long time no...see, I guess :3 Well, that's okay with me. I always wanted to see Edgeworth and Apollo interact like this. But what the hell Nick, you make Trucy stay to "hold the fort" while Athena says she has to go with us? That makes no sense.
LAST EDIT: Nevermind. Every game has its ups and downs. This is getting pretty darn good now from the day 2 investigation and onwards :grossberg:
This case is really hitting me in the feels right now tbh. I jumped the gun too soon and I think I take back whatever I've said about Maya being too safely implemented. I thought she was going to be absent the entirety until the case is solved, but at least they reference her and make use of her in the scenario in a way that isn't just blatantly reusing past games's story elements. I think Nahyuta still strikes me as Edgeworth 2.0 so far, but there's more to it than that and I think the angle they've taken with why he's strayed from his initial path is very poignant. But really where the story shines is generally Khura'in, its residents and backstory so far. I told you guys it hurt me in the feels and just to briefly elaborate:
Spoiler: Feels
I fucking love Inga, and he's dead! Not only that but as if Rayfa wasn't already likeable enough I really feel sympathy for her in this, and it also breaks away from the classic tsundere thing going on with her, because it's not just her acting aloof until she starts liking you. You actually catch glimpses of her true self under her mask. Although, this makes me a little disappointed we didn't bring Trucy rather than Athena. She's only here to please Athena fans right now, but Trucy would actually be able to connect with Rayfa in a way, I think, because they're similar; both sharing the need to fill in the shoes of their descendants and keep up appearances. Missed opportunity, but at least they made a relevant connection with case 2, thematically.

Oh, last thing: Finally something mysterious happens with Nanya. Right from when I played the demo I felt it wouldn't be surprising if Nanya was a some kind of hidden player in a bigger plot becuase she's so anonymous. I'm still not sure if she's the killer, but I have a feeling there's, once again, some channeling business going on. Also, Ahlbi has been absent the entire case. Could he be some kind of gifted child? The game is throwing a million possibilities at me and what I thought was predictable at first is becoming more and more hard to guess with every brainstorm, so this is just great. Whatever happens I'm not sure I would've called it anymore!

Anyway, I'm back to loving this game again, at least until something goes wrong which I'm optimistic isn't gonna happen. It's just a really interesting story with many things going on but it all feels fitting and natural again after my initial distress over where the hell any of this was going after the former part of the case. I also think the pacing is super great for a 5th case in a Yamazaki game. It's like the collective experience from his repetoire of work has paid off, because it's like the complexity of AAI2 but not AS labyrinthine and wild mixed with DD's focused pacing (the biggest positive I have with 5-5) :edgey:
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
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