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Re: DLC case discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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this case was boring

Spoiler:
the time travel was so obvious, easy to figure out.


final villain boring. acro did it better.
for me, this case is just above Turnabout Corner and Monstrous Turnabout. (yeah, that bad.) but maybe my criticisms will result in the "oh, it's actually not so bad" for some people.

Turnabout Reclaimed was a much better case 6.
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I never finished it and I never will. It's the worst mix of obvious pandering and bad original creation I've seen yet. It's not even intriguing because the premise is so obviously fake that only very few filler cases rival it. Nothing about this case felt genuine to me in the few hours I played it and I stopped midway through day 1 trail back in October and haven't touched it since and thinking about it now, I guess "never say never" but it sure feels like a "never" scenario right now.
T&T is the equivalent to FFVII. AA1 rocks the most :P
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The sad part isn't that I actually agree with you. One of the worst cases in the series (only beaten by 5-1 and I-3) ,though I feel that the ending wasn't terrible. But I do somehow barely still like it in the end,I suppose.

The main problem is not only the predictable twists,but the fact that the opening sets the bar rather high,but when you finish the case,you realise that
Spoiler:
everything in it was a complete lie.

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Turnabout Storyteller is a much better filler case, but I still enjoyed this one. c:
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Case four at least had entertaining trials and varied humour,
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I thought what the game did with Larry was actually really nice (previous the shitty answer to his drawing). Maya was fun and Edgeworth was pretty annoying but I do think it's a very nice reunion case. And I preferred Edgeworth to Nayuta too

I also thought the ending was incredibly sad
[spoiler=]
"I could've saved her...why did you have me operate on Sorin first?"
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All the returning characters I felt were way out of character. And even Larry had such a short minor role that it's forgettable entirely.
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Re: DLC case discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Southern Corn wrote:
All the returning characters I felt were way out of character. And even Larry had such a short minor role that it's forgettable entirely.

What do you mean Larry had a minor role? Almost the entire first trial was about him. It's likely his biggest role other that 1-4 or 3-5, and probably the one in which he's more involved with the murder.

And I don't felt the characters were OOC. Maybe Edgeworth was a bit too much of a jerk, but I could understand it in the circumstances, and Maya and Phoenix act exactly like they do in the rest of the game.
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He had two testimonies,and one of them was a joke testimony and both had easy contradictions. Then he barely sorta appears in a couple other scenes and that's it. Even his stupid photo was just rehashed ground (oh hai ther 3-5 and I2-3).


And to quote my writeup on this case:

Spoiler: 6-6
I wrote:
Now the returning characters. Athena and Trucy just reoccur throughout the case to shove in the fact that they had a reason to not be in the case. Phoenix...he really got on my nerves during the last trial day with his overreacting to everything. I didn't mind it in DD an in the main game of SoJ,but here it irked me. Apollo got a passing mention or two,but to me it doesn't sound like he's in another country,it sounds like he's taken a sick leave for the week. It doesn't mesh up.

Maya and Edgeworth both act incredibly out of character on several occasions. For example,are you really telling me that the future master of Kurain village would really throw herself at a running car? And the scene with her getting blood on Sorin's journal is stupid. It would've been more natural for the maids to have dropped it while taking it to Sorin.

Edgeworth first tells us that no one was brave enough to take on the case,as if Klavier,Blackquill,Franziska and Nahyuta don't exist. Then he spends the whole trial rushing the judge to give his verdict and insulting Wright all day. And you're telling me that you care for the truth? That's a pile of cowdung cakes (aka,it's only any good when burnt. Otherwise,it smells)

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Spoiler:
Maya didn't get blood on the journal, that was all Phoenix' fault!! Seriously though, that was my favourite part of the case (which I have to admit isn't really flattering for the case). No matter their age and experience, Maya and Phoenix at times regress into schoolkids when hanging out, and I for one love it. Actually, I spent yesterday evening and the morning before that thinking about this every now and then and laughing about it. They even continued that stupid quarrel in court...

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I actually think that acting immature isn't character consistency when there has clearly been years in between. That's pail old character regression.
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Temporary regression, I'd say, and that's what makes it funny to me. And people do act immaturely at times, no matter their age. Maybe not as blatant as in this case, but still. I could agree that Maya could use a little maturing and character development in general rather than being more or less a cardboard copy of her trilogy self, and that she can have that while still being "good ol' Maya". But for this individual, out of the blue outburst of childishness from both her and Phoenix, I just thought it was hilarious and didn't harm their characterization in general. It wouldn't surprise me if they both felt like "what the heck just came over me?" afterwards.
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I dislike it because it's such a sudden outburst. But oh well,to each their own.


i just noticed your new custom title what the heck man that's spooky
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Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler: 6-6
Edgeworth first tells us that no one was brave enough to take on the case,as if Klavier,Blackquill,Franziska and Nahyuta don't exist. Then he spends the whole trial rushing the judge to give his verdict and insulting Wright all day. And you're telling me that you care for the truth? That's a pile of cowdung cakes (aka,it's only any good when burnt. Otherwise,it smells)

And don't forget that part where...
Spoiler: 6-DLC
...Phoenix cross-examined a testimony that was beneficial to his case. (Or at least, he did something that wasn't fully beneficial for his case.) And Edgeworth was all like "Why are you doing this? You're ruining your own case!" as if 2-4 never happened and Edgeworth didn't know that both of them are in court to find the truth. And as if Phoenix has never cross-examined beneficial testimony before...
...And to make matters worse, mere moments later, Edgeworth gave his own truth speech, just to show that, no, he didn't actually forget his pursuit for the truth. So... what happened there exactly?

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Southern Corn wrote:
I actually think that acting immature isn't character consistency when there has clearly been years in between. That's pail old character regression.

But it is character consistency if they are immature all the time(or at least in certain situations). Phoenix is arguable because he's been portrayed very different in each game since AJ, but Maya's actions are perfectly consistent with her portrayal in the main game, which is the only time we've seen her post-timeskip, and therefore the canon portrayal. You can say that it's a bad way of handling her character, but it's not out of character.


And I agree with GfM, and I think it's even realistic to a certain point. People do tend to regress to how they used to be when they hang out with old friends.
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If you write them like that,then the audience is going to get an impression that they haven't even matured,which is a huge disappointment in terms of character development. And that's not even the only time she does so,etching like this.
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Southern Corn wrote:
I actually think that acting immature isn't character consistency when there has clearly been years in between. That's pail old character regression.


Not really. Maya is more mature, but she's definitely still the same old Maya. Honestly, her throwing herself in front of a car sounds exactly like something she'd do. Especially considering the lack of cars in Khura'in.
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That's sacrificing her life,potentially. She would let down Phoenix,Pearl,Edgeworth,and her whole family,all because she jumped in front of a car. This is where my suspension of disbelief falls down.
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Southern Corn wrote:
That's sacrificing her life,potentially. She would let down Phoenix,Pearl,Edgeworth,and her whole family,all because she jumped in front of a car. This is where my suspension of disbelief falls down.


Again, this is Maya we're talking about. She's definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and it's pretty easy to envision her seeing a burger stand across the street and just bolting.
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Yes,but she's the FREAKING MASTER OF KURAIN now! She knows exactly how much is on her shoulders,and would NOT risk her life over such a petty thing.
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Well...
Spoiler: Turnabout Revolution MAJOR SPOILERS
she DID push her luck with an ARMED KIDNAPPER by begging for burgers and the Plumed Punisher. I don't see how this would be much different. She could've been in just as much danger then as she was in the street. But before you say that she couldn't have been hurt in the first place, recall that Maya wasn't aware of this. She only knew that she was kidnapped.

If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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SC: But I think that's the thing. She's not, as Thunder84 said, the sharpest knife in the drawer, so she just acts on impulse without even thinking about that it means risking her life. I highly doubt she took the time to think "Hm, Edgeworth in a car. If I jump in front of it, he might stop and pick me up. There's the risk he won't notice me in time so I get overrun and potentially die, but... nah, it's worth the risk" but rather "That's Edgeworth------HEEEEEEY EDGEWORTH!!" *jump*.
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I think that's where we disagree. You keep saying that she should still have bouts of silliness from time to time,but I say that shouldn't be the case when her LIFE'S ON THE LINE.

And yeah,she even does something like this in case five,as A4J's stated.
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But doesn't the case 5 example only prove that she has "bouts of silliness", as you called it, making her actions in case 6 even more plausible?
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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I call that 'character regression'. Clearly Yamazaki's usage of multiple writers for different cases has failed him.
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You know, I read something somewhere that being with old friends can actually cause regression in a person to their old self so it's not too unrealistic.
If you need a defense attorney, come talk to me! I just...can't take any cases that are in real life...it has to be on Miiverse. But I'm a justice-seeking warrior who wins every time, like Mr. Fine over there! Well, as long as you're not guilty. In Justice We Trust!
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I'd like to see your source before I can give a solid argument,please.
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Go to "What Does Regression Look Like?", it discusses how the past can do such a thing. Concentrate more on the change parts and less on the addiction. The link is as follows: http://www.ascendrecovery.com/regression-happens/
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Hmm,very well,this article seems to be reliable. Regression is realistic,that's fine.

But when did I ever argue against that? No,the crux of the argument was that regressing characters is bad writing,just to appeal to nostalgic fans. It's stupid too,because these could be solved any other way:
Spoiler: 6-DLC
'Hey,Mr. Edgeworth! Can you take me with you?'
'Ooh,look at this diary,it's-whoops! I dropped it!'

These are much better solutions IMO

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Southern Corn wrote:
Hmm,very well,this article seems to be reliable. Regression is realistic,that's fine.

But when did I ever argue against that? No,the crux of the argument was that regressing characters is bad writing,just to appeal to nostalgic fans. It's stupid too,because these could be solved any other way:
Spoiler: 6-DLC
'Hey,Mr. Edgeworth! Can you take me with you?'
'Ooh,look at this diary,it's-whoops! I dropped it!'

These are much better solutions IMO

I wouldn't call it character regression, since we've never seen her as a generally mature woman(she has her serious moments, both in SoJ and the trilogy, but that's about it). She has simply stayed the same, not go back.

Also, I think you are taking too seriously what were clearly meant to be random silly jokes. Rule of funny applies, so they don't need to make a lot of sense as long as it's funny.
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I think the developers underestimated how reading into jokes can give a different impression of a character entirely.

and that's just Maya. I'd hardly call Edgeworth's regressions as attempts at humour.
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Southern Corn wrote:
I think the developers underestimated how reading into jokes can give a different impression of a character entirely.

and that's just Maya. I'd hardly call Edgeworth's regressions as attempts at humour.


For whatever reason, Yamazaki has made Edgeworth a fairly big douchebag in both of his courtroom appearances. He's his AAI version of himself during the investigation sequences, and his trilogy self in the court scenes. It's really bizarre.
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Southern Corn wrote:
All the returning characters I felt were way out of character. And even Larry had such a short minor role that it's forgettable entirely.

Not "way out" of character... but it just felt kind of forced to me or drab. Maya is usually full of energy and I think they're going for a AA123 characterization for her overall in this case, but it mostly become more "ah-ha-ha" than "lol" funny. If the character interactions had been really good I probably wouldn't have been able to put it down regardless of what the plot was, I mean, that's JFA in a nutshell to me (sans 2-4 which was actually good) but it just isn't entertaining enough here :p

I still concede it's a decent case though. I mean, it's not "awful" or full of inconsistencies or anything... it's just too much "been there done that" kind of feeling.

Above poster: Yeah, it's really weird. Edgeworth is not always perfectly written to his T&T-esque self in the Investigations games but it's always somewhat passable, but in DD and this case he's just completely tactless in court. They overdid it.
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I wonder if one of the reasons for Edgeworth's regression is due to the backlash that Klavier got. I know that a lot of people here like him, but in general I've heard that people didn't like having a more cooperative prosecutor. If Edgeworth was like his investigations self, he most definitely would've been more cooperative, and in turn not really much of a challenge.

But it's probably just because Yamazaki isn't very good at staying consistent with characterization.
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Thunder84 wrote:
But it's probably just because Yamazaki isn't very good at staying consistent with characterization.

He ran out of source-material to base his fanfic on.
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Despite people hating Yamazaki,I honestly think he is the best case scenario writer after Takumi left. He's clearly someone well acquainted with the series and does want to do it justice. It just so happens that sometimes he doesn't do it enough justice.
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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Despite people hating Yamazaki,I honestly think he is the best case scenario writer after Takumi left. He's clearly someone well acquainted with the series and does want to do it justice. It just so happens that sometimes he doesn't do it enough justice.


Yeah, he's great as long as he's working with his own stuff.

When faced with what's already been established, he does one of two things:

1) retcon

2) Freeze a character in time, instead of reintroducing character to the current timeline while factoring in changes (and no, "Pearl got a new hair bead and a new Maya-inspired pose" does not count).
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Jean Descole wrote:
Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Despite people hating Yamazaki,I honestly think he is the best case scenario writer after Takumi left. He's clearly someone well acquainted with the series and does want to do it justice. It just so happens that sometimes he doesn't do it enough justice.


Yeah, he's great as long as he's working with his own stuff.

When faced with what's already been established, he does one of two things:

1) retcon

2) Freeze a character in time, instead of reintroducing character to the current timeline while factoring in changes (and no, "Pearl got a new hair bead and a new Maya-inspired pose" does not count).


That's pretty much entirely accurate TBH. Yamazaki can create some hella good new characters and develop them within the game, but he can't develop a character over a longer period of time to save his life.
Re: DLC case discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Imo, this so-called "regression" is nothing more than a classic example of writer's block. Takumi had good reason to not keep writing Phoenix into Apollo's game at first. In an interview after DD was released, he admitted that it may not have been the direction he expected, but it was a good idea to let other writers take the helm. I believe this was the first sign that he's come to run dry with Phoenix's character.

With Yamazaki and the others, they at least had other ideas to try with the old cast, but if a lot of them were old staff members from back then, it's no surprise to see a lot of focus on nostalgic values. Yamazaki is one of those old members. Eshiro is too.

By now, I think where the line between in and out of character has been muddied so much that it doesn't really matter anymore. You don't have to like it, but you should at least consider it.
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Re: DLC case discussion thread (tagged spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Southern Corn (SC) wrote:
Despite people hating Yamazaki,I honestly think he is the best case scenario writer after Takumi left. He's clearly someone well acquainted with the series and does want to do it justice. It just so happens that sometimes he doesn't do it enough justice.

Wait... Who else do we have besides those two? :eh?:

(That we can actually really attribute anything to.)
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