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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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It's been about a year since this game released and I think people have finally settled in. It seems to have a generally positive reception and for the most part is liked more than DD and in some cases, seen a son one of the best games. In all honesty, after thinking over this for a while, this game would probably displace PLvsAA and get into the bottom of the top of my list instead of the top of the bottom of the list. Makes sense?

The cases themselves are pretty good and consistent (except for Time Traveller), and the music is classic. The main problems I really have are:

  • Nahyuta. Not only is he the worst AA prosecutor, he's also my least favourite AA character in general. Not to say there's no room for improvement, but this game handled him and his character terribly.

  • The tune out moments. They're also here quite a lot despite there being more moments where I pay attention. This is more in the first half of case 1 (till Pees'lubn arrives) and 6-3 until the final day of investigation. This is also due to...

  • The lack of save points. I know you can save whenever you want and all that jazz, but the lack of natural save points really makes it hard to replay this game. Case 1 is just 1 part, 6-2 is 2, 6-3 is 5, 6-4 is 2 again, and 6-5 is 6 to 8 which is nice. But for the most part, the lack of savepoints also make the new feature where you can start at any segment of the case pretty useless.

  • Apollo's backstory, while emotional, is still very silly to me. I'm not really sure why they included it like this, but it worked for the most part. Wait, this isn't much of a complaint!

  • There really aren't many characters in some of these cases, often making the culprit super obvious. It's kind of a bummer, really.

  • The forensic sections SUCK.

  • The Divination Seances, while very interesting gameplay wise, are maybe a bit too hard? I had quite a lot of trouble figuring out some stuff in Case 3's and the first one in Case 5.

  • The Magatama, Bracelet and Mood Matrix are all...very minimally used in the game. Heck, I don't think the Magatama was used outside 6-3 in the main game. Kind of disappointing they've just been reduced to sideshows at this point.

  • The jokes were a bit more...mature in this one, weren't they? At least when compared to other recent instalments in the series. Heck, I was shocked when Pees'lubn said 'crap' because as far as I know, that hasn't been used since 2-4. This isn't much of a complaint as well (except for the Balloon jokes) but it felt strange to me that I was playing an AA game like this. Honestly reminded me of AA1.


I think that covers everything. Let me know if I missed anything.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Thanks for the summary post, Southern Corn. It explains a lot about my opinions of the game. I'm currently in the middle of my second playthrough of the game and I'm in the middle of case 3, so I'll share a few of my thoughts:

- I agree wholeheartedly, Nahyuta is a bore. There are plenty of things to like about him - his theme, some character traits (his absurd amount of preparation before a case is a nice touch), but he eventually just repeats the same drivel over and over and by Case 4 I was exhausted from him. Entertaining prosecutors are crucial for an AA game - Edgeworth, Godot, and Blackquill were highly enjoyable and make some of the less interesting cases in their games more interesting.

- Apollo is an interesting character because I went from not caring about him at all in his own game to beginning to like him more as I went along... and then they perform a massive retcon to his past and plop him in Khura'in, which is just flat-out awkward.

- One of my main criticisms were that this game needed more characters. I would be OK with more one-note side characters because, as you mentioned, a couple cases suffer from this. Turnabout Time Traveller desperately needs more characters - right after I met the true killer, I thought to myself ("Well, this guy's probably the killer unless we meet someone else") and then that was it... Case 3 probably needed one more character, on top of Case 5 part 1 needing another suspect.

- I don't know how AA games forensics sections have taken such a backward step since previous entries... this is something they've done before and they should have been able to nail, so I'm surprised how clunky and unintuitive these parts are.

- Case 3's Divination's Seances tripped me up several times, and on my last playthrough, I was trapped in a Seance and no matter how many times I entered the correct moment and statement, it wouldn't work (it was the part with the flickering lantern)! I like the open-endedness these sequences offer up, but a couple of them need a few hints thrown in (but they were working to make some solutions less obvious (Dual Destinies suffered big-time from this)).

- I really don't like Case 4 and Blackquill was the only enjoyable part about it. The DLC case lost all intrigue when the time travel element was easily explained away. Larry and Edgeworth were the only highlights in that case.

- I liked the soundtrack. Most of the tracks are serviceable and I really enjoy the Khura'in pieces. My only complaint is that I'd like to see a few more character-unique tracks (having the generic "quirky/eccentric" character music play for most characters gets a bit stale).

Spoiler:
Case 5 had its ups and downs but I really would have wished if Queen Ga'ran wouldn't have immediately morphed into her crazy spider Disney villain outfit right at the beginning of the trial, making it incredibly obvious who the killer was. The case would have had a lot more suspense if I could have believed that Amara was actually the killer, but there was no way it wasn't Ga'ran. They did a great job not making me suspect her during Case 3, why couldn't she have kept up his facade during the trial of Case 5?


I'd still say that is game is a little bit better than Dual Destinies, but not by much. I'm hoping the Yamazaki (spelling?) team can top their efforts when the eventual AA7 is announced. I want to see a game that takes a big step forward from this like AAI2, not another sidestep like Spirit of Justice.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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I finished the main game and am currently playing the DLC. Quick question--is the 'Asinine Attorney' worth it? It looks intensely overpriced to me, but then again this game is my life so I'll drop whatever dough I need to if it's remotely interesting :acro:

Every other GS game has taken me less than a month, with my fastest playthough being 5 days for GS3. This game.....took me a year. I have no idea why or how it took me this long, but it did and so my memory of case 1 and 2 is a little fuzzy, but here we go:

Case 1: I have nothing to say about this than my initial impression was that the graphics were ugly. I still think this: the colours are so bad and I just overall hate the way Khura'in looks--especially the courtroom. It's like they were trying to go for multiple aesthetics at once but none of them really meshed well.

Case 2: I think I enjoyed this one??? I finished it last Christmas so I don't remember that much, but I love Trucy and Apollo's interactions so this pleased me. I didn't particularly like
Spoiler: 6-2 (wow, we're really getting up there in games, aren't we?)
the retconned new Gramarye member, that was lazy as fuck.


Case 3: Uggggggggggh this case was ridiculous. It was a wild ride of inconsequential tangents and jarring switches in arguments. They were arguing something different like every three dialogue boxes! I'm pleased to see how many other people had problems with the lantern-based seance scenes, because that was probably the most difficult moment in any Ace Attorney game for me. I mean, I'm glad they made it harder than Dual Destinies, but this part was hell.

However! I actually think the case redeemed itself entirely though its ending! I didn't see that coming!
Spoiler: 6-3
the suicide thing was so well done.

I absolutely adore those bits at the end where you piece everything together in your mind and the final conclusion dramatically explodes onto the screen. I get so excited when those parts happen.

Case 4: I'll refrain from complaining about the writers in yet another post, but I will say that I think their main strength is writing one-shot cases, where the characters are new and none of the main cast has much personal investment in the case. That's where they really shine. I liked Case 4! I definitely feel like it's the sort of case a lot of people will hate, however. I'm not sure why, I just...feel it.

I didn't care for the defendant, however. And I'm surprised the game
Spoiler: 6-4
made him drunk

that seemed a bit adult for Ace Attorney's standards. It was funny for a few minutes but got old quickly (the sprite animations took too long, tbh).

Holy hell was Case 5 long. It's longer than Rise from the Ashes by miles, right? I really enjoyed the initial investigation scenes up until the trial, where I got desperately bored.
Spoiler: 6-5
Dhurke and Apollo's little adventure in Kurain was really nice. I was worried that making them go to Kurain would seem forced, but it didn't seem to.
The civil trial was dull. Phoenix's reasons for representing Atishon were boring and predictable. The whole thing was a mess. That robot was annoying as hell, I stopped playing for like three weeks during that cross examination because I couldn't take it anymore.


Honestly, by the time the final trial happened I was just exhausted. Oh wait, I take back what I said about the hardest thing in an Ace Attorney game being in 6-3. It was in this case.

Spoiler: tiny 6-5 spoiler
the box puzzle made me as frustrated as the last exam of my undergrad. I was ready to flip a table.


Spoiler: another tiny spoiler
I struggled to enjoy Khura'in or take Apollo's role in their affairs seriously. I'm tired just thinking about the whole thing. Ga'ran's whole character was silly, flat, and insufferably simplistic.


I was actually shocked by how much I didn't give a shit about Nahyuta Sahdmadhi. He's exactly the kind of character I feel like I would really like, but... there was nothing there. He was boring as hell. Even more so than Blackquill. snore.

For a while I couldn't wait to be finished of 6-5.

But that plot twist...
Spoiler: really really bad 6-5 spoiler
Dhurke being dead? Didn't see that coming. At all.

That was incredibly well-done, probably the cleverest thing I've ever seen in the series. Props to the writers. I'm still blown away weeks later. Jesus.

So I'm a little less bitter now. It redeemed itself like 6-3 did.

I like Turnabout Time Traveler so far. It seems obvious where things are headed, and the first hour or so of the trial was really weirdly handled, but I like having the gang back together. It's inconsequential and fun.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Danchat wrote:
- I agree wholeheartedly, Nahyuta is a bore. There are plenty of things to like about him - his theme, some character traits (his absurd amount of preparation before a case is a nice touch), but he eventually just repeats the same drivel over and over and by Case 4 I was exhausted from him. Entertaining prosecutors are crucial for an AA game - Edgeworth, Godot, and Blackquill were highly enjoyable and make some of the less interesting cases in their games more interesting.


Pretty much. I was looking forward to seeing him too based on his design, theme, and animations, but once he starts speaking in 6-2 he got really terrible. I understand that that's the point of his character, more or less, but they really could have balanced out his serious moments with some actually funny moments. And he sometimes just becomes silent for a whole lot, too, making him even worse. Like you said, entertaining prosecutors are crucial for AA, so having this guy around was just all around terrible.

Quote:
- One of my main criticisms were that this game needed more characters. I would be OK with more one-note side characters because, as you mentioned, a couple cases suffer from this. Turnabout Time Traveller desperately needs more characters - right after I met the true killer, I thought to myself ("Well, this guy's probably the killer unless we meet someone else") and then that was it... Case 3 probably needed one more character, on top of Case 5 part 1 needing another suspect.


Time Traveller's was so obvious it hurt. No it's not the defendant or Sorin, then we wouldn't get our happy ending. It can't be the background maids or the dead sister. And the guy clearly couldn't have killed himself. And making one of the returning characters the killer is just dumb. Clearly it's the obvious robo surgeon butler.

Quote:
- I really don't like Case 4 and Blackquill was the only enjoyable part about it. The DLC case lost all intrigue when the time travel element was easily explained away. Larry and Edgeworth were the only highlights in that case.


Really? I thought that the returning characters in Time Traveller had terrible characterisation. Edgeworth takes the case saying that 'There's no one else with the guts to take this case' as if Klavier, Blackquill, Franziska and possibly Nahyuta don't exist. Then at the end of the trial he's suddenly surprised that Wright is fighting for the truth? Did he forget everything in the last 10 years or what?

Larry too was rather underwhelming. He didn't even play that big of a role in the case. He had, I think, two testimonies (one of which was a joke one), and then pretty much disappears for the rest of the day.

Quote:
Spoiler: Case 5
Case 5 had its ups and downs but I really would have wished if Queen Ga'ran wouldn't have immediately morphed into her crazy spider Disney villain outfit right at the beginning of the trial, making it incredibly obvious who the killer was. The case would have had a lot more suspense if I could have believed that Amara was actually the killer, but there was no way it wasn't Ga'ran. They did a great job not making me suspect her during Case 3, why couldn't she have kept up his facade during the trial of Case 5?


That's kind of what I like, lol. Something about how obvious the villain is from the get-go really gets me.

Cravat of Doom wrote:
I finished the main game and am currently playing the DLC. Quick question--is the 'Asinine Attorney' worth it? It looks intensely overpriced to me, but then again this game is my life so I'll drop whatever dough I need to if it's remotely interesting :acro:


It's just mostly filler. TBH, you're better off just seeing it online than getting it. It's fun, but not worth actually buying with real money XD

Quote:
Case 1: I have nothing to say about this than my initial impression was that the graphics were ugly. I still think this: the colours are so bad and I just overall hate the way Khura'in looks--especially the courtroom. It's like they were trying to go for multiple aesthetics at once but none of them really meshed well.


Nothing to say on the case itself? I have to agree, the courtroom itself is a bit bland. The villain in this case is so good, though.

Quote:
Case 2: I think I enjoyed this one??? I finished it last Christmas so I don't remember that much, but I love Trucy and Apollo's interactions so this pleased me. I didn't particularly like
Spoiler: 6-2 (wow, we're really getting up there in games, aren't we?)
the retconned new Gramarye member, that was lazy as fuck.


Yeah, as a fan of AJ seeing the cast (kinda) get back together was nice. Like you said though, Mr. Reus was the worst part of the case. They'd could've just made him hold a grudge against the Gramaryes by saying he failed Magnifi's test or something. That would've made more sense than half assing him here.

Quote:
Case 4: I'll refrain from complaining about the writers in yet another post, but I will say that I think their main strength is writing one-shot cases, where the characters are new and none of the main cast has much personal investment in the case. That's where they really shine. I liked Case 4! I definitely feel like it's the sort of case a lot of people will hate, however. I'm not sure why, I just...feel it.


Pretty much my thoughts. It's very simple from the get-go, but I think the comedy and writing here is so strong that I think it tops 1-3 as my favourite filler case.

Quote:
I was actually shocked by how much I didn't give a shit about Nahyuta Sahdmadhi. He's exactly the kind of character I feel like I would really like, but... there was nothing there. He was boring as hell. Even more so than Blackquill. snore.


Personally I'd say that what makes Blackquill better than Nahyuta is that he just has better quips and overall is a more competent and fun prosecutor than he is. You can even see this when they face off in 6-4.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Quote:

Really? I thought that the returning characters in Time Traveller had terrible characterisation.


Well, I do remember Edgeworth doing absolutely everything he could to insult Wright, which seemed harsh, but perhaps I enjoyed not having Nahyuta as the attorney. I'm trying to remember why I enjoyed Larry... his characterization seemed fine, and I liked how he actually became a [somewhat] successful picture book artist.

Quote:
'There's no one else with the guts to take this case' as if Klavier, Blackquill, Franziska and possibly Nahyuta don't exist.

They even state this in Case 2 when it's stated that Edgeworth cleaned the Prosecutor's Office from its corrupted prosecutors (Gaspen Payne), and they need more prosecutors, so that's why Nahyuta is on the case... even though we know that Klavier and Blackquill are around (according to the team, they say Winston Payne is still prosecuting, and Franziska is probably elsewhere/with Interpol). The reasoning was that Sprocket Aviation was planning to rig the trial so Edgeworth stepped in to make sure that didn't happen.


Also, this reminds me of another criticism I forgot to share. I disliked how Maya was used in this game - did we need to see Maya be suspected for murder for the 4th 5th possibly 6th time? And then have her get kidnapped in Case 5, mirroring Case 2-4, but in a much more poorly done way? Would it hurt for them to stop using Maya like Princess Peach in the role of the damsel in constant distress? On the flip side, one thing I did like about having Maya back was how she channeled the victim in Case 3... which was definitely bizarre but quite memorable. I wasn't a fan of how the mystery unraveled, however.
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Re: What do you think of Spirit of Justice?Topic%20Title
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Danchat wrote:
Quote:

Really? I thought that the returning characters in Time Traveller had terrible characterisation.


Well, I do remember Edgeworth doing absolutely everything he could to insult Wright, which seemed harsh, but perhaps I enjoyed not having Nahyuta as the attorney. I'm trying to remember why I enjoyed Larry... his characterization seemed fine, and I liked how he actually became a [somewhat] successful picture book artist.


Maybe so. Nahyuta did get on my nerves a lot.

In all honesty, Larry's role here also seems pretty recycled (just like Maya's). It basically amounts to 'Larry snuck in and drew a picture of something crazy', just like I2-3 and a little like 3-5. That's really the only plot reason he's there.

Quote:
Quote:
'There's no one else with the guts to take this case' as if Klavier, Blackquill, Franziska and possibly Nahyuta don't exist.

They even state this in Case 2 when it's stated that Edgeworth cleaned the Prosecutor's Office from its corrupted prosecutors (Gaspen Payne), and they need more prosecutors, so that's why Nahyuta is on the case... even though we know that Klavier and Blackquill are around (according to the team, they say Winston Payne is still prosecuting, and Franziska is probably elsewhere/with Interpol). The reasoning was that Sprocket Aviation was planning to rig the trial so Edgeworth stepped in to make sure that didn't happen.


Wait, when did they say Payne was still prosecuting? Source?

Well, I suppose that's a fair enough point, seeing as how the possibility of Klavier and Blackquill having other cases to handle is there. I still dislike Edgeworth's choice of wording but there isn't much you can do about it.

Quote:
Also, this reminds me of another criticism I forgot to share. I disliked how Maya was used in this game - did we need to see Maya be suspected for murder for the 4th 5th possibly 6th time? And then have her get kidnapped in Case 5, mirroring Case 2-4, but in a much more poorly done way? Would it hurt for them to stop using Maya like Princess Peach in the role of the damsel in constant distress? On the flip side, one thing I did like about having Maya back was how she channeled the victim in Case 3... which was definitely bizarre but quite memorable. I wasn't a fan of how the mystery unraveled, however.


Admittedly, Maya had way less of a role than you would think she had. In the end, she was really just there for fanservice and for repeated roles. Heck, I think her theme plays maybe about 3 times in the entire main game, which is surprising. Though I honestly didn't mind giving the spotlight to Apollo, but it was still very unexpected.
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Quote:
Wait, when did they say Payne was still prosecuting? Source?


Hmmm... this may be a tough one to find, but I'll take a look. I think it was somewhere on Court Records updates on Spirit of Justice, but I remember the development team was asked if Winston Payne was still around, and the answer was something similar to this: "We'd like to think that Winston is still prosecuting". It's not unrealistic as he was prosecuting just two years prior to SoJ.
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Danchat wrote:
- Apollo is an interesting character because I went from not caring about him at all in his own game to beginning to like him more as I went along... and then they perform a massive retcon to his past and plop him in Khura'in, which is just flat-out awkward.

Was it a retcon, though? It didn’t affect anything we knew about him in AA4 or AA5, it just filled in the gap from him being one year old until his teenage years. Not that that was begging to be filled in or anything.

I agree that it feels awkward. Forced, even. The whole thing felt like the development team were thinking: “We need Apollo to be involved in this or people won’t like it!”
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MBr wrote:
Danchat wrote:
- Apollo is an interesting character because I went from not caring about him at all in his own game to beginning to like him more as I went along... and then they perform a massive retcon to his past and plop him in Khura'in, which is just flat-out awkward.

Was it a retcon, though? It didn’t affect anything we knew about him in AA4 or AA5, it just filled in the gap from him being one year old until his teenage years. Not that that was begging to be filled in or anything.

I agree that it feels awkward. Forced, even. The whole thing felt like the development team were thinking: “We need Apollo to be involved in this or people won’t like it!”


I believe it was determined in another thread that it was a retcon because back in AJ Spark Brushel told Wright that Apollo's father died in an accident. But even if it isn't a retcon, suddenly transitioning Apollo into Khura'in out of the blue was awkward.
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A “stage accident,” specifically. Brushel tells Wright this when talking to him in the Mishams’ apartment.
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^Technically, he died while performing, so it could be construed as a 'stage' accident.

If you can't believe that, then you could just say that Brushel's sources are incorrect or inaccurate in some way.
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I believe the "onstage accident" was mistranslated from the original version anyway
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Scent wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't get what's wrong with Apollo being from Khura'in, nor that it was shoved into us. I mean, there's a photo of kid Apollo in Episode 3, so it wasn't shoved to us in Episode 5. It was kinda obvious that it was a piece of foreshadowing for what the narrative was going to tackle in a near future in the game. Plus Apollo technically isn't from Khura'in. He was born in Japanifornia, but Jove brought him to Khura'in for a performance, and ended up getting himself killed, and leaving his baby boy orphan, which Dhurke took into responsibility to raise.

Spoiler:
There was no narrative build up to Apollo in 6-5, though. This would be like if in T&T you find a picture of Phoenix and Dahlia in case 3, and case 5 is when you learn about his relationship to her and Mia’s relationship to Dahlia and Diego. With 3-1 and 3-4, however, things are gradually uncovered which is why when 3-5 happens it doesn’t feel like it’s coming out of left field to shove Phoenix into the story.
The picture in 6-3 doesn’t come close to building up to what happens in 6-5. In fact, nothing in this game does that. 6-5 comes around with “This is Apollo’s story now. Here’s a whole lot of information about his past and relationships we’re just now introducing.”

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It's a good game! I would almost recommend it as a first title just on the strength of the game if one were to experience it in isolation, but as someone who likes Ace Attorney as a franchise I couldn't do that.
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Yeah, a lot of things in this game would be strengthened if this wasn't your first AA game, like the references and such to previous titles.
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Also, part of what I enjoyed in this game was that it differed a bit from the other games, in location and so obviously, but also somewhat with how the mechanics are used, like in the cave exploration scenes. I think there are other titles better suited for "getting into" the characters and the gameplay, and then this provides something slightly different in some aspects which makes the experience feel a little more fresh after five main games before it.
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