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Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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Wax Philosophical Power Hour

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Spoiler:
Thinking about reality tv and its obsession with getting their contestants to "show vulnerability" in order to get the audience emotionally invested in them led me to think about Nahyuta. Would some vulnerability, even for just a moment (like somone earlier in this thread suggested, for example having him shed some tears of relief after the last trial), allow the player to feel more connected to him? Maybe. Thinking about it, all the other main prosecutors (excluding the Payne's and Manfred von Karma) has shown vulnerability at some point in the game, except for Klavier, who is the other prosecutor people tend to say didn't make much of an impression on them. Although Klavier had some emotional moments at the 4-4 trial, while Nahyuta hardly had even that.
Of course, it might be not so much the vulnerability itself but that is has, in most cases, been linked to a situation where they experienced some personal growth and/or allowing the player more insight in the character and what motivates and scares them. Nahyuta doesn't really have that either, at least not in a way that we are shown. We know his fears and motivations for doing what he does, but only because we are plainly told so, he doesn't show us himself. And while a better and more effective form of storytelling (mainly "show don't tell") concerning him would have helped, I do think it's possible that a moment of vulnerablity would have made at least some difference for how his character is percieved, as it would induce more empathy and emotional investment/connection to him from the player. It might not "save" his character as far as the player is concerned, but perhaps leave a better ending impression.
On the other hand, I quite like it for what it is - that he is rather cold and harsh and keeps stuff to himself, and he is alowed to be that way. After all, that is part of his character. Although on the... uh, third hand, part of Edgeworth's character is also being cold and rather harsh and stone-faced, yet they had him in a situation of vulnerability and helplessness while still having him in character and managed to have him grow up and mellow out a bit while still keeping him cold and serious and... well, Edgeworth.

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Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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Spoiler: To the above
I think having him cry at the end of the trial would've felt a little paint-by-numbers AA to me. Though I wouldn't have minded him crying after Apollo presents Dhurke's badge and Nayuta says "I...wanted him to save me", then his theme plays
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Spoiler: Whole game
'Finally,I made Nahyuta really smile again'
Well,he was smiling while talking about Retinz's shows and burgers,as well as while performing Rakugo.

Actually I can kinda see him performing it to Amara and Rayfa after the game.

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Wax Philosophical Power Hour

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Spoiler: JesusMonroe
That's how I feel, too. Like... cheap, almost. It was just the example that came to my mind that was related to what I was thinking about. It wouldn't have to involve crying, though. The way Edgeworth asks Phoenix to defend him after having told him to leave him alone is fairly low-key, but very effective (and in character).

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Pretty much agreed. I don't think Nayuta is a bad character, though. I actually think he's a better character than Blackquill but Blackquill's a better prosecutor and a more entertaining personality, so I prefer him and would rank him higher

My main problem with Nayuta is very simple
Spoiler: 6-5
His relationship with Apollo feels neither meaningful nor believable. The same game was able to sell me on Apollo and Dhurke's


I think he needed one more funny gimmick to be more memorable. Doesn't even need to be something new, they could just emphasize him reading the karmic threads of trials beyond Day 1 of Case 3. Maybe play it off in a funny way when he ends up being wrong

I do think there's a lot of potential for him in a future game like the team did with Lang in AAI2 (making him much more enjoyable and much more fleshed out). He has such a great design and theme that it's too disappointing that he's just kind of alright
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Yes. I, too, like him for what he is, he's a bit different from previous prosecutors. He's not flashy and bombastic that most of them are in different ways, but rather a bit monotone. And quite frankly, pretty bitchy. Still, he does lack a certain something. I can't really get a grasp of him.

Spoiler: 6-5, DD
Definitely yes. They had no chemistry whatsoever and when Apollo tried to talk to him and reach out, he simply got no response. If they could just talk a bit casually, or about Dhurke, or anything, after the final trial it would have made a big difference as far as I'm concerned. In a sense, it's about the same problem I had with Athena and Simon's supposed past relation in DD. I simply couldn't buy it. Having them interact in a less tense and personal situation in 6-4 made it somewhat better, though. So if there's an AA7 and Apollo and Nahyuta are in it, there is potential there, absolutely.

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In response to this,I once again firmly hold that in AA7 they should show
Spoiler: AA6
Nahyuta performing Rakugo to Rayfa and Amara. It would be hilarious,and also show that he's matured to a certain degree since we last saw him.

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Going for Miles wrote:
Yes. I, too, like him for what he is, he's a bit different from previous prosecutors. He's not flashy and bombastic that most of them are in different ways, but rather a bit monotone. And quite frankly, pretty bitchy. Still, he does lack a certain something. I can't really get a grasp of him.

Spoiler: 6-5, DD
Definitely yes. They had no chemistry whatsoever and when Apollo tried to talk to him and reach out, he simply got no response. If they could just talk a bit casually, or about Dhurke, or anything, after the final trial it would have made a big difference as far as I'm concerned. In a sense, it's about the same problem I had with Athena and Simon's supposed past relation in DD. I simply couldn't buy it. Having them interact in a less tense and personal situation in 6-4 made it somewhat better, though. So if there's an AA7 and Apollo and Nahyuta are in it, there is potential there, absolutely.


Spoiler: 6-5, DD
I also think that the relationship between Athena and Blackquill wasn't really well portrayed in DD. To me it was less that I didn't buy it and more that I didn't even understand it. Was he like a babysitter or an older brother to her when she was a kid? And where do they stand now after both of them have changed so much? Fortunately 6-4 did a good job clearing that last one up. And I think their characters weren't all that harmed by this because a)their motivations didn't hinge on the nature relationship (Athena wanted to fix her "failure" at convincing the court of his innocence and Blackquill was protecting Athena out of devotion for Metis) and b) They had well-developed relationships with other characters that helped us know them better(Athena and Junie, Blackquill and Aura...) so in the end we knew what they were all about.

But was what Nayhuta all about? All we know about him is what we see, which isn't really varied (and we don't know how much of it is a facade) and what Apollo tells us (And their relationship isn't convincing enough to get invested in that). I feel like I don't really know this guy. It's the same feeling I got with Klavier after playing AJ (although I had that problem with most of the cast of that game).
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luck wrote:
Going for Miles wrote:
Yes. I, too, like him for what he is, he's a bit different from previous prosecutors. He's not flashy and bombastic that most of them are in different ways, but rather a bit monotone. And quite frankly, pretty bitchy. Still, he does lack a certain something. I can't really get a grasp of him.

Spoiler: 6-5, DD
Definitely yes. They had no chemistry whatsoever and when Apollo tried to talk to him and reach out, he simply got no response. If they could just talk a bit casually, or about Dhurke, or anything, after the final trial it would have made a big difference as far as I'm concerned. In a sense, it's about the same problem I had with Athena and Simon's supposed past relation in DD. I simply couldn't buy it. Having them interact in a less tense and personal situation in 6-4 made it somewhat better, though. So if there's an AA7 and Apollo and Nahyuta are in it, there is potential there, absolutely.


Spoiler: 6-5, DD
I also think that the relationship between Athena and Blackquill wasn't really well portrayed in DD. To me it was less that I didn't buy it and more that I didn't even understand it. Was he like a babysitter or an older brother to her when she was a kid? And where do they stand now after both of them have changed so much? Fortunately 6-4 did a good job clearing that last one up. And I think their characters weren't all that harmed by this because a)their motivations didn't hinge on the nature relationship (Athena wanted to fix her "failure" at convincing the court of his innocence and Blackquill was protecting Athena out of devotion for Metis) and b) They had well-developed relationships with other characters that helped us know them better(Athena and Junie, Blackquill and Aura...) so in the end we knew what they were all about.

But was what Nayhuta all about? All we know about him is what we see, which isn't really varied (and we don't know how much of it is a facade) and what Apollo tells us (And their relationship isn't convincing enough to get invested in that). I feel like I don't really know this guy. It's the same feeling I got with Klavier after playing AJ (although I had that problem with most of the cast of that game).

Spoiler: 6-5
I brought this up in another thread but I do think most of the personality we see form Nayuta is genuine. I think he just naturally has a sharp tongue and would be an insulting prosecutor even if he was never under Ga'ran's control. The only part of Nayuta's personality that Apollo noted as weird was his "let it go and move on" stuff

Anyway, on Athena and Blackquill in SOJ, I actually think it would've been cool if they acknowledged that Blackquill still saw her as some kid he needed to protect so he didn't trust her skills as a lawyer. It could be argued that that's what we're supposed to interpret, but I feel in that case the writing should've had him helping her through the case until she stands up to him and says she doesn't want him to hold her hand through it

I brought this up before but I think it would've been cool if Athena hated Simon in DD for killing her mother and her motivation to become a lawyer was to embarrass him in court by beating him an make him realize that nobody cared about him. Could be too "edgy" but it would certainly be more interesting than her wanting to save him. Simon's reason to protect her just stemmed solely from the samurai respect he had for her mother, and then Athena doesn't know how to feel about him anymore when she finds out he's innocent, considering she spent most of her life hating him. It would at least make 6-4 more interesting as it would be a case where they're trying to really get to know each other for the first time
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Spoiler: 6-5
I don't get this guy. He would have let his father and his stepbrother die (even in a public execution) only to protect his sister whom he didn't even know quite as well as Dhurke and Apollo!? This seems so unrealistic and I couldn't understand his motivation. Imo his change of beliefs came too late in the game (heck it happened even after his own father was already dead), sadly I couldn't really like this character because of all the nasty things and his whole behaviour before the last day in trial. It somehow felt odd to me that he is now the new regent of Khurain (until Rayfa is old enough) it just doesn't feel right for me.
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Spoiler: To the above
He wasn't just thinking about "Who do I like more? Dhurke/Apollo or Rayfa/Amara?", he was thinking about how important they were to the world. He knew Rayfa needed to become queen and it would be devastating for the kingdom if the truth about her parentage was revealed. So even if he did care about Dhurke/Apollo more, he probably just swallowed his motions and did the sacrifice for his kingdom instead of personal desire, as a monk should
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler: To the above
He wasn't just thinking about "Who do I like more? Dhurke/Apollo or Rayfa/Amara?", he was thinking about how important they were to the world. He knew Rayfa needed to become queen and it would be devastating for the kingdom if the truth about her parentage was revealed. So even if he did care about Dhurke/Apollo more, he probably just swallowed his motions and did the sacrifice for his kingdom instead of personal desire, as a monk should
Now that you mention it, this makes kinda sense, I never really thought about it this way.
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He definitely is. Not only he was just another tired "asshole prosecutor who just hates your guts but actually has this tragic backstory" cliche I'm tired of, but he did absolutely NOTHING in the last case.

He just stood there, was a hindrance, and then the game expected me to like him for dropping his "I hate lawyers" persona.
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I was a bit disappointed for a long time because I tend to love, love, love the prosecutors, so I had been really curious about him - and here he was, "I hate prosecutors" and rather bland.
luck wrote:
I think the reason people dislike Nahyuta is because as opposed to Edgeworth, who is a pretty similar character in many senses, he never had a moment to make people think 'this guy might not be such a jerk' before his whole deal is revealed near the end of the last case. Remember how the whole reason Turnabout Samurai exists is to give the player a reason to care about Edgeworth? Turns out it was a good idea.

Yes. That. That's the reason for me not caring that much at first.

I never disliked him, I rather liked him, but he felt a bit "meh" at times and unnecessarily rude. Some amusing moments that made me enjoy him more were had, definitely, but those were pretty few and far between. I really enjoyed his eloquece, though.
Spoiler: SoJ-5
I started to get intrigued for real when I got to know that he had been a rebel, and after case 5 I actually felt love, but it all was so sudden, not really any build-up. I really wished there had been some more moments between him and Apollo earlier in the game, now it was just "some bitchy monk Apollo used to know for some reason".

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I noticed the only prosecutors I don't like so much are the ones in the games where Apollo is the pivotal character. Either way,Klavier was much better as he at least refrained from telling Apollo to go to hell and didn't have any special relation with Apollo beforehand.
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Nahyuta is probably one of the most normal prosecutors in a while. While yes, he was telling the defense attorneys to go to hell, compared to being whipped, getting coffee thrown at you and nearly getting cut in half, it's nothing. Not only that, but at the time Nahyuta was being forced to be against Apollo because of Ga'ran, so it's possible he's a lot more outgoing like how he is described to have been like when he was like five or something. I like Nahyuta a lot.
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
I was a bit disappointed for a long time because I tend to love, love, love the prosecutors, so I had been really curious about him - and here he was, "I hate prosecutors" and rather bland.
luck wrote:
I think the reason people dislike Nahyuta is because as opposed to Edgeworth, who is a pretty similar character in many senses, he never had a moment to make people think 'this guy might not be such a jerk' before his whole deal is revealed near the end of the last case. Remember how the whole reason Turnabout Samurai exists is to give the player a reason to care about Edgeworth? Turns out it was a good idea.

Yes. That. That's the reason for me not caring that much at first.

I never disliked him, I rather liked him, but he felt a bit "meh" at times and unnecessarily rude. Some amusing moments that made me enjoy him more were had, definitely, but those were pretty few and far between. I really enjoyed his eloquece, though.
Spoiler: SoJ-5
I started to get intrigued for real when I got to know that he had been a rebel, and after case 5 I actually felt love, but it all was so sudden, not really any build-up. I really wished there had been some more moments between him and Apollo earlier in the game, now it was just "some bitchy monk Apollo used to know for some reason".

I really think trying to hide the relationship between him and Apollo hurt the game. 6-2 is their first trial together ever. Two brothers who haven't seen each other in years are facing off and there's no fire at all in their dynamic

I remember being really excited for 6-5 thinking about the position Nayuta would be in having to convict Dhurke but then he doesn't do anything as a prosecutor for like the entire case. Huge missed opportunity
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^ Fully agree.
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KirbySage18 wrote:
Nahyuta is probably one of the most normal prosecutors in a while. While yes, he was telling the defense attorneys to go to hell, compared to being whipped, getting coffee thrown at you and nearly getting cut in half, it's nothing. Not only that, but at the time Nahyuta was being forced to be against Apollo because of Ga'ran, so it's possible he's a lot more outgoing like how he is described to have been like when he was like five or something. I like Nahyuta a lot.

He throws beads at the defence,can predict the future,and
Spoiler: 6-5
is royalty.
I'm sorry,but I don't find him to be exactly normal.
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He doesn't have a Turnabout Samurai moment like Edgeworth or Blackquill did. I don't find him likeable, but he can be funny.

Edit:
Spoiler:
Beat the game for the second time, and Nahyuta is part of the reason I hate the plot of this game. He's Edgeworth 2.0 without being likable or having a moment where you think, "he might not be a jerk after all." As a result, it feels so contrived. Oh, Apollo knew him as a child? This is just like the first game! Now, care about him, as he goes through some feelsy stuff.
Utter garbage.

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So I've been thinking a little more about how I feel about the way they handled Nahyuta, and I realized a number that bother me about it more then ever.

Spoiler:
For one thing, Nahyuta doesn't have anything unique about him in regards to his background or his motivations.

Take the part in 6-3 where Phoenix sees the photo of Dhurke, Nahyuta and Apollo. At this point we should be shocked that Nahyuta is the son of the revolutionary leader. This is a huge plot twist that creates the questions of why he turned against his father's views and became such a cold person. Instead however, people were more "Holy crackers, APOLLO grew up in Khurain and is the son of the revolutionary leader?!" Apollo's big plot revelation completely distracts us from Nahyuta.

And it happens again with Nahyuta's goals and motivations for why he's in this position, when we find out Queen Amara is still alive and was actually Rayfa's nanny the whole time who was also looking after Rayfa's well-being. Again, we're too distracted by Amara and her goals that we forget Nahyuta is also looking out for Rayfa. Nahyuta essentially loses his sense of existence since he's sharing his traits with others who have a more significant impact.

It doesn't help that his character arc turnaround is so last minute. He never changes or even thinks differently of things during the time he faces Apollo, Phoenix and Athena. Especially with Phoenix since the Barbed One refused to surrender even after he had a death sentence looming over him. Considering that Nahyuta's whole arc is learning to not give up and surrender, you'd think that would have had SOME effect on him, but nope. His arc is almost literally...

6-2, 6-3, 6-4
Nhayuta: I yield. I yield. I yield.
6-5
Apollo: Hey Nahyuta, snap out of it!
Nahyuta: Oh right, sorry. A dragon never yields!

As well as this, another thing I disliked about his character arc is, aside from his defeatist attitude about the situation, he has no real inherent flaws that he needs to correct or experience to learn from. His condescending attitude to defense attorneys? His disregard for the people he sends to death row? All of it was something he was forced to do by Ga'ran, so he's completely blameless and has always been a super duper nice guy all along. No struggle or having to learn anything outside of "don't give up", no morally gray aspects whatsoever, which is a major problem with the whole Khurain storyline in general, but that's a discussion for another topic.

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There's nothing to him, he's an antagonistic dick-ish prosecutor then he is revealed to have been a good guy. That's it. That's his entire personality.

He has no character. He is nothing.

You could remove him from the game and replace him with Gaspen and you would only need to rewrite very little of the plot.
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If that were the case, then I would love to see Gaspen's backstory on how he was Apollo's brother the whole time.
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Southern Corn wrote:
If that were the case, then I would love to see Gaspen's backstory on how he was Apollo's brother the whole time.

Okay, you're a genius, i change my mind, new idea: Remove Nahyuta, replace him with Gaspen and rewrite absolutely nothing.
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"Let it go and move on"
-The Incredible Payne

Would tie up all sorts of families together too, the Khura'in Royal Family, the Fey family, the Gramaryes, the Wrights and the Paynes! Maybe Winston could even be Dhurke, it could work.
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Hmm...I wonder how hard it could be to mod the Android version of SoJ to replace all Nahyuta's models with Gaspen and change nothing else.
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Cesar Zero wrote:
Hmm...I wonder how hard it could be to mod the Android version of SoJ to replace all Nahyuta's models with Gaspen and change nothing else.


Would his 3D model stretch to all of the exact movements that Nahyuta's model would normally make? Seeing Payne's model contort like that would be hilarious. I've seen multiple ROM hacks of Pokemon Sun/Moon/UltraSM that have done this same thing with 3D models so I believe it's possible to do on 3DS or Android.
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Consider that Apollo never actually faced Gaspen in court. Hell I don't even think they'd ever interact. So when they actually do, the brotherhood plot point can finally surface for them. Makes perfect sense!
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Yet Gaspen called Apollo a red monkey in 5-1. This was clearly foreshadowing he knew Apollo as he was a monkey since childhood and also explains why he wants to prosecute his assaulter. Yet another point for him and Nahyuta being the same person!
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In order to really like Nahyuta, unfortunately you need other characters to...not exist. Design-wise, he's amazing - visually, character-concept wise. As a prosecutor he's not going to be remembered as strongly and in a strange irony he will need to show up in AA7 so that they can sufficiently differentiate him besides being a brother and a son etc.

Incidentally I think that the tickling punishment comment that he makes is a hint at an "inner child" angle that he still retains despite his seriousness and maturity but either the localization went with a really subtle angle in the script or it was a bit of a missed opportunity to make the character stand out. As it stands, all prosecutors flip out anyway, so...Also, the whole "The Judge is NOT A PERVERT" thing is a great moment as well

I don't know. Simon has the samurai thing going on, cartoonish as it may seem. Since Nahyuta makes a comment about acknowledging each of the prosecutors who defeat him, maybe they can add in a "competitive character" angle when we see him again. He has a pure concept of legal proceedings, or at least aspires to it (his character is in Khura'in and wants to reform the legal system to something That It Should Be) so...I think there are options here.

But as it stands, as a character he's alright.
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Yeah, they had a lot of missed opportunities with Nahyuta. I think for AA7 they could focus more on the comedic aspect (he has a lot of funny lines this game too, but they were pretty underplayed). That's probably what they have to do to even make him likeable in the first place, honestly.
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Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:22 am

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Also Nahyuta says "Objection" in English in case 5 and that's kinda awesome though there's not much context to it
vroom vroom!
Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:42 am

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He says that in every other case as well, I'm pretty sure. Sahtora is just an added bonus.
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