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Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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luck wrote:
Phoenix was a perfectly decent opponent, if you ask me. Specially the way he just bluffs his way out of any pinch. I finally understand how Edgeworth feels.

Yeah, I mean jesus, he must be the master of bluffing, I don't even want to imagine how frustrating it must be when you're an actual prosecutor.
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Re: Is Nayuta is worst rival prosecutor of the series?*spoilTopic%20Title
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He just sucks. He should go back to defending things where his bluffs are no less pathetic, but at least they'd fit. Who thought it was a good idea to let Phoenix prosecute a case without a prosecutor's badge? The very least he could have done was borrow from Edgeworth, since he wasn't using it at the time.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
He just sucks. He should go back to defending things where his bluffs are no less pathetic, but at least they'd fit. Who thought it was a good idea to let Phoenix prosecute a case without a prosecutor's badge? The very least he could have done was borrow from Edgeworth, since he wasn't using it at the time.


He wasn't prosecuting though??? He was the plaintiff. And I thought Phoenix was perfectly fine at being the rival. I mean, his last bluff before the recess was MEANT to be a pathetic last ditch effort considering the situation he was in.
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It's not the last bluff that gets me. It's that he brings up murder in the first place. His job was being the plaintiff's defense and he just had to turn it into a murder because always muuuurrduuurrr.

I think someone's been taking his job too lineally. Gawd, why he gotta mess up the mojo of a civil trial. It was cool before it went derp.
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There was no point to having Phoenix face Apollo besides how "cool" it was. I think his ulterior motive for doing it is what made it really derpy once you found out, not only because it was a rehash of 2-4 but also that it was out of character for him at this point to be that desperate I think or lie to Apollo about it and frame someone for friggin murder. I hated how Apollo's dialogue literally felt like the reaction Edgeworth had at the end of 2-4's day 1 as well, when he found out about Maya.

I thought way until I got to the part where he revealed the reason we were doing the civil trial, that it was some sort of test he was putting Apollo through in conjunction with his speech to Apollo in 6-2 about being capable and learning everything Wright has taught him. I thought he was going to see if Apollo had what it would take to lead the WAA or something crazy like that.

In the end it was pointless and what they should've done was to let Klavier or someone else prosecute in 6-4 and then give Nahyuta two more plane-tickets and prosecute in 6-5 part 1.
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He's alright. I think he's quite cool.
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If we ever get a Nayuta smiley can we make it :letitgoandmoveon: instead of :nayuta:?

Now that I think about it, there's an edit of Frozen's "Let it Go" with Nayuta's face overlaid just waiting to happen
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Guys, I thought that last post made it clear I was just joking.

Anyway, as much crap as I can give Phoenix, he was still a better stand-in prosecutor than what Nahyuta became. It's a shame since I do see potential in him, but due to plot reasons, he had to be constrained for a good chunk of the game.

Also, I feel like there were just too many parallels to Phoenix and Edgeworth in the first game. I didn't complain about how 5-5 was like RftA (it wasn't, really), but I will complain about this.
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Yeryuhgh, I feel like I wanna crawl inside a hole now :letgomoveon:

Anyway, I'm now even more almost through the game sitting in yet another spoiler topic for no reason that makes any sense, but I can say even though I also had some issues with the parrallels to Edgeworth, that I think they did a lot more with him than simply make him an Edgeworth clone at the end of the day. It's still jarring but he works well enough for me that I actually got emotional during case 5, and that's contrary to how in 5-5 I just felt nothing at the big payoff, because to me everything felt so forced and derivative. I didn't immediately catch on to the claims of it being an RftA copy, but on my last replay there were once or twice in the case when I was like "shit that actually is exactly like in 1-5 when you talk to Lana/Ema"
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Nahyuta just... he really bugged me honestly.
He didn't really grab my attention like Edgeworth, Franziska, Klavier or Blackquill did.

He and Godot are on the same wavelength where I don't HATE them, but they just seriously rub me the wrong way.
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I always find it difficult to judge the prosecutors by their worth as, well, a prosecutor. What I can do is judge them by their character, and for me, Nahyuta is at the bottom of the list. He wasn't fun, he wasn't interesting, and he quickly became old and boring with his petty, repetitive insults.
I also just hated how he acted all holier-than-thou while being a vindictive bastard himself
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Bad Player wrote:
dullahan1 wrote:
If she at least had a reason as to why she was the way she was or what made her become like that, maybe I'd like her more.

I'm going to highlight that I really like how "monk prosecutor" is so cohesive, and fits together and play off each other for basically every part of his character. Contrast this with Blackquill, who was a "goth psychologist falconer samurai swordsman convict prosecutor who helped out in the emotional research segment of a robotics lab at a space center." His character made no sense, and was nothing more than an amalgam of individually cool-looking elements that had nothing to do with each other.

Well the concept behind Blackquill was "a prosecutor that's a contradiction" :p
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Playing Turnabout Time Traveler (not going to spoil anything, I promise) has lessened my opinion of Nahyuta even more. Getting to go up against a prosecutor with a well fleshed out personality and motivations, and who has some actual wit to his lines instead of just telling me I'm going to hell and then getting reincarnated as something undesirable was really refreshing. Upon reflection, perhaps the reason why Nahyuta is just so bland and devoid of any personality besides his petty insults.

I posted on here before saying that I didn't think he was as bad as Franziska, but I'm honestly kind of torn about that now because Franzy at least has something of a personality. Yeah, it's little more than a massive inferiority complex, but it is at least a personality. Nahyuta just has his "last rites for the victim's soul" schtick and petty insults, neither of which are really personality traits. And it's made even worse when you find out at the end that...

Spoiler: 6-5
...he was faking both the whole time to protect Rayfa. We hardly get to see him afterwards, as most of the attention from that point on is focused on taking down Garan. The two most notable things I could attribute to him are fake. What do I even remember him by now? The prosecutor that...really likes Ema? Every other prosecutor in Ace Attorney has some defining personality traits I can point to that separate them from their colleagues, but Nahyuta just has...nothing.

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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5
...he was faking both the whole time to protect Rayfa. We hardly get to see him afterwards, as most of the attention from that point on is focused on taking down Garan. The two most notable things I could attribute to him are fake. What do I even remember him by now? The prosecutor that...really likes Ema? Every other prosecutor in Ace Attorney has some defining personality traits I can point to that separate them from their colleagues, but Nahyuta just has...nothing.


Oh geez. When you put it like that so bluntly, it... does seem really bad. I mean, it really does leave him with just nothing. :beef: He did have his studious side, which I liked but it hardly showed through. It's sad because I liked the overall design and thematic approach with Nahyuta more than Blackquill's. :sadshoe:
If there is another game, I'm kinda wishy washy if I'd ever want to see Nahyuta again. I liked him, but at the same time, It would be weird if he ever made another appearance. They would definitely make him more quirky and less of a butt though if that were the case knowing this series' track record.
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
dullahan1 wrote:
If she at least had a reason as to why she was the way she was or what made her become like that, maybe I'd like her more.

I'm going to highlight that I really like how "monk prosecutor" is so cohesive, and fits together and play off each other for basically every part of his character. Contrast this with Blackquill, who was a "goth psychologist falconer samurai swordsman convict prosecutor who helped out in the emotional research segment of a robotics lab at a space center." His character made no sense, and was nothing more than an amalgam of individually cool-looking elements that had nothing to do with each other.

Well the concept behind Blackquill was "a prosecutor that's a contradiction" :p

There's a difference between a contradiction and a mess.
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Now that I have finally seen it through, I may say Nahyuta is definitely a well designed character, but still very unimpressive because he's half a rip off. Same with Blackquill, except there was more focus applied to Nahyuta but I prefer blackquill for being way more entertaining if we have to bud heads with the two of them and this opinion was especially reaffirmed when the two got to interact in 6-4. The lack of irony to Nahyuta's monk act made him unfunny who never his dialogue was supposed to be punchline-y and as a prosecutor he was your run of the mill rival. His arguments don't stand out for his character in particular, it's jus another embodiment of whatever counterargument the plot requires to bring a challenge to the player.
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Oh man I just finished the game and I'm still somewhat reeling from everything; back to the topic on hand:

On one hand I think his moot characterisation has to do with how much story they had to pack into this game (and they just didn't have enough time for him) but on the other it feels a little like bad pacing. A few other commenters mentioned this as well: about the snail paced start of this game and I couldn't help but think they could have used that time to better establish some of the new characters.

While he's not 'bad' they didn't really flesh him out all that much as opposed to the other prosecutors. He seemed a bit to me like a one-trick-pony with his relentless 'oh holy mother', and it wasn't until the end that he got a bit more colourful in terms of character (he still turned out to be a personal favourite of mine in this series). But, without spoiling anything, while they did try to redeem him in the final case, it just wasn't enough to make me feel for him. It was like the writers went "ohkAY WE GOTTA GIVE HIM SOME FEELS AND BACKSTORY PRONTO" and then we get inundated with a whole lot of backstory and then 'The End'
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One of my biggest problems with Nahyuta is that he would not get to the point when objecting to Phoenix/Apollo/Athena's claims. Instead, he'd just go off on some long winded rant about how putrid minded they are and that they are going straight to hell for having the nerve to do their jobs and fight for their clients in court before actually pointing out the flaws in their claims. This tendency for repeated baseless insults combined with Case 1 really left me with a very negative first impression of Khu'rain.

At least his theme was nice to listen to.
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I finished the game and while I agree his characterization and redemption could've been foreshadowed better, Nahyuta is in no way a bad character and turned out to be one of my favorite prosecutors ever.

The one thing I see people complaining more about him is that he's an asshole. I think that has to be the one single trait every prosecutor except Gavin had on every game at the beginning. Some were more refined assholes and some were more bitter assholes, but in the end they were all assholes. Now, that doesn't excuse the small part this game dedicated to Nahyuta's redemption of course, but I totally could see parts of a very defined personality behind all that assholery during his other cases. His particular likings (like the Burger thing), his commitment to overstudy the themes of his trials, his deep devotion to his religion, his struggle to talk with people that he thinks fondly of (something that was foreshadowed as back as case 2 with Ema). There are a lot of things to take from Nahyuta from all his cases before 6-5. Particularly I'd like to point out to 6-4 (another criminally underrated case) as one of his most shinning moments in terms of personality. That was the case where we found out Nahyuta was human. By going into a case almost as unprepared as the defense and trying to hide it behind some other superficial investigation, and then being almost outclassed time and time again not only by a way more inexperienced lawyer but by a prosecutor/witness he simply couldn't control. That was when the Illuminated prophet dissapeared and the flawed man appeared. Of course, just like with Blackquill or Fransiska, these particular traits won't come into the spotlight the way they should until we see him in a setting where he's not a main character. I seriously doubt he'll ever stop being an asshole to be honest. I expect him to always have his outbursts, even against Apollo post 6-5 (that too is part of his character after all) and I wouldn't have him any other way.

So as far as prosecutors and character development just in their first game, I say he ranks high in my list. Certainly better than Klavier, Franziska, and Blackquill.
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He's a caricature of an Eastern-y Buddhist-y monk. Of course he has no personality, the whole religion is about achieving a sense of nothingness. That's why he's all "let it go and move on"
As a caricature of this, he's excellent.
The better question is, was "the monk" the right choice for being a prosecutor.
In my opinion, no, it was not a good choice.
Though, neither was "the rockstar", or "the samurai-convict-psychologist-space center robotics assistant"

Honestly, I just preferred it when they were just "a prosecutor"
Then they could have an actual character rather than a random unrelated job with "prosecutor" slapped in front of it.
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magnus_orion wrote:
He's a caricature of an Eastern-y Buddhist-y monk. Of course he has no personality, the whole religion is about achieving a sense of nothingness. That's why he's all "let it go and move on"


Spoiler:
I took his repetition to mean he was despairing about his own situation. By saying "let it go and move on," he was trying to convince himself it was right to throw away the plans he had as a rebel, all for the sake of his sister and mother.

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Although Nahyuta isn't my favourite prosecutor, can I say I do like him, especially with some of his antics with Ema.
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He's definitely one of the worst prosecutors in the series but as a character, I like him more than I dislike him. I wasn't as annoyed by his repetitiveness as everyone else, but I do wish that he had more of a personality. Nearly all we see are his shticks and that doesn't make a good character. We see glimpses of a good character but the writing never lets us go all the way with it. He definitely picks up in case five but he's pretty flat for most of the game. I really wish that he was a better character because his arc, backstory, design, and voice are all pretty neat, in my opinion.
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magnus_orion wrote:
He's a caricature of an Eastern-y Buddhist-y monk. Of course he has no personality, the whole religion is about achieving a sense of nothingness. That's why he's all "let it go and move on"
As a caricature of this, he's excellent.
The better question is, was "the monk" the right choice for being a prosecutor.
In my opinion, no, it was not a good choice.
Though, neither was "the rockstar", or "the samurai-convict-psychologist-space center robotics assistant"

Honestly, I just preferred it when they were just "a prosecutor"
Then they could have an actual character rather than a random unrelated job with "prosecutor" slapped in front of it.

This this this

Franziska was just a prosecutor. She had a whip, but that was a quirk. Godot was a prosecutor. He enjoyed coffee. Yumihiko was a prosecutor. He was an idiot

Klavier was a rockstar and a prosecutor. Blackquill was a convict and a prosecutor. Nayuta was a monk and a prosecutor

I do wish the series going forward just focuses more on developing the prosecutors as characters and then building their personality from that rather than just throwing out the new gimmick of the week. I think I'll end up liking Van Zieks a lot more than Nayuta
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I think Klavier as a rockstar and prosecutor worked well because it served as a foil to Apollo, who's pretty much super serious about being professional.
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I still think that the nail on the head with Nahyuta being "lame" is that his Buddhist traits are not played up for laughs in any way, and like someone said, he lacks the "irony" of a good rival character. I'm totally fine with his nothingness attitude and I think many have misconceptions about that design, but they really could've made some more entertainment out of it, like the initial concept of him pretentiously claiming he can see the outcome of everything through the negative karma of the defense, which like Blackquill's "power of suggestion" seemed to be heavily discarded as soon as case 2 was over. You could easily make Nahyuta extremely passive-aggressive or wholly into his "restraint" persona while mocking the player in a snide and effectively annoying way. It's like how Godot kept calling you names or making vague threats and that was hard to take seriously because it was purposefully overdone, which made it funny IMO. Same with Franziska and Edgeworth who both have very fierce traits that just end up making you laugh rather than being scared or impressed.

With Nahyuta it's as if I'm supposed to be impressed or something, with the weird necklace-telekenesis he does once every case or his chanting. It's like they made him fierce and serious without an ironic distance to it. and that didn't really work for me. Nahyuta's stories about different hells were completely boring and uncomedic. I liked him much better in case 4 when they made him do stuff with some actual timing to the comedy, like him reciting a Rakugo and watching everyone go "O.o". I think they better captured the interaction between the defense and Nayhuta in case 4 because like with it's as if they're purposefully of ignoring him at times or easygoing with his threats even though he's expectedly acting imposing with his spiritual beliefs and presentation of his case.
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JesusMonroe wrote:
magnus_orion wrote:
He's a caricature of an Eastern-y Buddhist-y monk. Of course he has no personality, the whole religion is about achieving a sense of nothingness. That's why he's all "let it go and move on"
As a caricature of this, he's excellent.
The better question is, was "the monk" the right choice for being a prosecutor.
In my opinion, no, it was not a good choice.
Though, neither was "the rockstar", or "the samurai-convict-psychologist-space center robotics assistant"

Honestly, I just preferred it when they were just "a prosecutor"
Then they could have an actual character rather than a random unrelated job with "prosecutor" slapped in front of it.

This this this

Franziska was just a prosecutor. She had a whip, but that was a quirk. Godot was a prosecutor. He enjoyed coffee. Yumihiko was a prosecutor. He was an idiot

Klavier was a rockstar and a prosecutor. Blackquill was a convict and a prosecutor. Nayuta was a monk and a prosecutor

I do wish the series going forward just focuses more on developing the prosecutors as characters and then building their personality from that rather than just throwing out the new gimmick of the week. I think I'll end up liking Van Zieks a lot more than Nayuta

I'll jump on this bandwagon too, but with a grain of salt or two.

I can understand the thought process behind designing characters based on gimmick-of-the-week, as it's a simple and straightforward method of creating characters. It can easily become trite and predictable, but at least it saves on the frustrations of starting from scratch. Yet, from my experience as a writer, a character tends to be better developed from scratch rather than from a template. It's more painstaking, definitely, but the reward can be worth it.

That is the catch, though; "can be" isn't reliable. A tried-and-used template is, even if it doesn't produce outstanding results. Eshiro and co. love to push the bounds on what is "reasonable", but they often resort to safer tactics when pushing for the final design. I notice a lot of disconnect between members of this team, even based solely on the interviews they publish online, and while they can produce some shining examples of quality, there's plenty of wasted opportunity.

With Yamazaki out for at least the next AA game, that's again one less veteran member of the AA crew working on the mainstream series. It's always good to let some new faces in on the development, but the last time it happened was with AJ:AA, and while the director was a familiar face from behind-the-scenes of previous titles, the result could have seen improvement, though it was still decent in my book.

My hopes go with Van Zieks, but DGS2 must introduce a whole lot of development he desperately needs. Otherwise, as he is now, he's the blankest prosecutor we've seen to date.
Spoiler: DGS
Aside from the Castlevania-inspired design, I see a very depressed drunk who hasn't prosecuted a case in a long time and is a little rusty at his job. Perhaps if we knew a bit more about why he quit for so long, it'd change a lot about how we see him. Maybe Vortex had something to do with it as well. And maybe he knows something about the "darkness" Holmes mentions at the end of case 4. All we can do in the meantime is speculate.

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Bad Player wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I'm going to highlight that I really like how "monk prosecutor" is so cohesive, and fits together and play off each other for basically every part of his character. Contrast this with Blackquill, who was a "goth psychologist falconer samurai swordsman convict prosecutor who helped out in the emotional research segment of a robotics lab at a space center." His character made no sense, and was nothing more than an amalgam of individually cool-looking elements that had nothing to do with each other.

Well the concept behind Blackquill was "a prosecutor that's a contradiction" :p

There's a difference between a contradiction and a mess.

A mess? Blackquill is a prosecutor who was studying psychology on the side in order to help himself get better at his job (as Aura specifically states in game). He also has an interest in swordplay/samurais. That's two separate character traits, and perhaps three if you separate the psychology component from the prosecution component. His clothing is black and he has a pet; that doesn't make him either gothic or a falconer. You might as well call Miles Edgeworth a mess because he's a prosecutor, enjoys the Steel Samurai, wears frilly clothes, was known as the demon prosecutor at one point, drinks tea, and has a dog.

Characters can and often do have interests in multiple things; it's what makes them relatable, as, well, human beings are multi-faceted creatures who enjoy lots of different things as well. Having a guy simply be "the monk" with no distinguishable traits besides "he is a monk and also does monk things" is extremely shallow by comparison to what has gone before.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
A mess? Blackquill is a prosecutor who was studying psychology on the side in order to help himself get better at his job (as Aura specifically states in game). He also has an interest in swordplay/samurais. That's two separate character traits, and perhaps three if you separate the psychology component from the prosecution component. His clothing is black and he has a pet; that doesn't make him either gothic or a falconer. You might as well call Miles Edgeworth a mess because he's a prosecutor, enjoys the Steel Samurai, wears frilly clothes, was known as the demon prosecutor at one point, drinks tea, and has a dog.

Characters can and often do have interests in multiple things; it's what makes them relatable, as, well, human beings are multi-faceted creatures who enjoy lots of different things as well. Having a guy simply be "the monk" with no distinguishable traits besides "he is a monk and also does monk things" is extremely shallow by comparison to what has gone before.

I think your comparison between Blackquill and Edgeworth here doesn't hold. For Blackquill, all his traits are pretty extraordinary. For Edgeworth, what you mention is hardly a trait. Drinking tea and having a dog is what any common Joe has. For extraordinary traits for Edgeworth:
- Enjoys Steel Samurai (mild for a normal person, extraordinary for a serious grown man)
- Wears frilly clothes (nothing too extreme, but definitely extraordinary)
- Was known as the demon prosecutor (like any other prosecutor has a similar reputation)
However, Blackquill...
- Studies psychology (this one is very mild)
- Is interested in swords and samurai (nothing too wild, but also extraordinary)
- Worked at a robotics laboratory
- Has a pet falcon
- Was a convict on death row
- Has a fully black aesthetic complete with whatever he has underneath his eyes
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Nurio wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
A mess? Blackquill is a prosecutor who was studying psychology on the side in order to help himself get better at his job (as Aura specifically states in game). He also has an interest in swordplay/samurais. That's two separate character traits, and perhaps three if you separate the psychology component from the prosecution component. His clothing is black and he has a pet; that doesn't make him either gothic or a falconer. You might as well call Miles Edgeworth a mess because he's a prosecutor, enjoys the Steel Samurai, wears frilly clothes, was known as the demon prosecutor at one point, drinks tea, and has a dog.

Characters can and often do have interests in multiple things; it's what makes them relatable, as, well, human beings are multi-faceted creatures who enjoy lots of different things as well. Having a guy simply be "the monk" with no distinguishable traits besides "he is a monk and also does monk things" is extremely shallow by comparison to what has gone before.

I think your comparison between Blackquill and Edgeworth here doesn't hold. For Blackquill, all his traits are pretty extraordinary. For Edgeworth, what you mention is hardly a trait. Drinking tea and having a dog is what any common Joe has. For extraordinary traits for Edgeworth:
- Enjoys Steel Samurai (mild for a normal person, extraordinary for a serious grown man)
- Wears frilly clothes (nothing too extreme, but definitely extraordinary)
- Was known as the demon prosecutor (like any other prosecutor has a similar reputation)
However, Blackquill...
- Studies psychology (this one is very mild)
- Is interested in swords and samurai (nothing too wild, but also extraordinary)
- Worked at a robotics laboratory
- Has a pet falcon
- Was a convict on death row
- Has a fully black aesthetic complete with whatever he has underneath his eyes

I don't really consider being a convict on death row a personality trait as much as it is something that happened to him. Being accused/found guilty of murder isn't really a part of your personality, it's merely a title/position that you hold. The actions that Blackquill took (taking the blame for Metis' murder) which led to him being a convict on death row could be considered personality traits, but I'd argue that mindset falls under the samurai code pretty seamlessly. Even if you do count being a convict, though, I'd say Edgeworth has an almost equally extraordinary backstory/personality trait in that he spent his childhood years learning from the guy that killed his father only to be framed for murder by that same person in an elaborate revenge scheme.

The hawk was intended to contribute to the samurai-ish vibe as well, since falconry was a popular pursuit for samurai beginning in the 16th century. It's just another symbol of Japanese culture; I don't think it's seriously intended to imply that he actually hunts animals with Taka in his spare time (which is what falconry is).

As far as I know, he never worked at the robotics laboratory. He went there to take psychology lessons from Metis, and played with Athena there.

With all that said, I'd argue all of Blackquill's "personality traits" mentioned thus far can be pretty neatly fit into one of two categories; his role as a prosecutor and his affinity for Samurai/Japanese culture. He studied psychology at a robotics lab to become a better prosecutor. He wields a "sword," wears a samurai outfit, has a pet hawk, and let himself take the blame instead of Athena because he fancies himself a modern day samurai. The only thing mentioned on the list that doesn't really go into either of those two categories is his eyeliner thing, and I think that was meant to represent the toll that prison took on him (Jinxie refers to it as bags under his eyes in 5-2).
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
I don't really consider being a convict on death row a personality trait as much as it is something that happened to him.

Well, I didn't say personality trait. I simply said trait. In other words, from a design standpoint, what stands out about the character. What makes the character unique, and what makes the character this particular character. And yes, "convict prosecutor" is very much part of Blackquill's design. So is "Samurai prosecutor". And so is "Prosecutor with pet falcon". And so is "Psychology prosecutor". And so is "Gothic(ish?) design prosecutor".

TheBlarghMan wrote:
I'd say Edgeworth has an almost equally extraordinary backstory/personality trait in that he spent his childhood years learning from the guy that killed his father only to be framed for murder by that same person in an elaborate revenge scheme.

Edgeworth was first presented as being an evil prosecutor with frills, looking for perfection. He was a very simple character. And only when you start digging do you find a pretty morbid backstory that then gives the character depth.
Blackquill is eccentric right from the get-go. All the traits I mentioned above are apparent immediately. The only thing you find out later on is that he took the fall for Athena.

TheBlarghMan wrote:
I don't think it's seriously intended to imply that he actually hunts animals with Taka in his spare time (which is what falconry is).

Good thing I never said he practiced falconry, then. =P

TheBlarghMan wrote:
As far as I know, he never worked at the robotics laboratory. He went there to take psychology lessons from Metis, and played with Athena there.

Fair point. And this is more strange with DD overall rather than Blackquill, but a robotics laboratory in a space center, with a mentor in psychology who actually gives lectures on the subject there... That's pretty unreal as well.

TheBlarghMan wrote:
With all that said, I'd argue all of Blackquill's "personality traits" mentioned thus far can be pretty neatly fit into one of two categories; his role as a prosecutor and his affinity for Samurai/Japanese culture.

Surely enough you can find a reason behind every design decision and you can make sense of it all. But that doesn't make him less over-designed. That just makes him over-designed with reasoning behind it.
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Nurio wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
As far as I know, he never worked at the robotics laboratory. He went there to take psychology lessons from Metis, and played with Athena there.

Fair point. And this is more strange with DD overall rather than Blackquill, but a robotics laboratory in a space center, with a mentor in psychology who actually gives lectures on the subject there... That's pretty unreal as well.

Well, Metis worked in the space center because they needed a psychologist for that project to make robots that understand human emotions, and since Aura was her co-worker and Simon was interested in psychology, it makes sense for them to get introduced and develop a mentor-apprentice relationship.
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Nurio wrote:
- Has a fully black aesthetic complete with whatever he has underneath his eyes


Actually I'd consider him more of a black and white- cause the idea for him was a prisoner :hotti:

As for that thing underneath his eyes... pretty sure they're eyebags under eyebags due to sleepless nights. Also it seems the official artbook states that the streaks under his eyes were due to tears he didn't bother wiping or something. Idk how that works, but yeah. In case anyone was curious.
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Yeah, I remember all that. And again, I never doubted they had reasons behind every design decision. Still makes him over-designed, though
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Nurio wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
With all that said, I'd argue all of Blackquill's "personality traits" mentioned thus far can be pretty neatly fit into one of two categories; his role as a prosecutor and his affinity for Samurai/Japanese culture.

Surely enough you can find a reason behind every design decision and you can make sense of it all. But that doesn't make him less over-designed. That just makes him over-designed with reasoning behind it.

I think we're debating different things at this point. The argument that BadPlayer made (who I was initially responding to) was that Blackquill's "character made no sense, and was nothing more than an amalgam of individually cool-looking elements that had nothing to do with each other." That's what I'm arguing against; I think Blackquill's character makes quite a bit of sense, and nearly all of those "individually cool-looking elements" are related to each other.

If you want to argue that he's simply over-designed, then that's fine, I suppose. I won't argue there, as that's exclusively a matter of personal taste. I'll simply say that it never bothered me, especially considering how wacky the characters in Ace Attorney have been.
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luck wrote:
Nurio wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
As far as I know, he never worked at the robotics laboratory. He went there to take psychology lessons from Metis, and played with Athena there.

Fair point. And this is more strange with DD overall rather than Blackquill, but a robotics laboratory in a space center, with a mentor in psychology who actually gives lectures on the subject there... That's pretty unreal as well.

Well, Metis worked in the space center because they needed a psychologist for that project to make robots that understand human emotions, and since Aura was her co-worker and Simon was interested in psychology, it makes sense for them to get introduced and develop a mentor-apprentice relationship.

I think it's the whole story in 5-5 that makes all parts included (Athena, Blackquill, Metis etc.) feel messy. So the mom works at a robotics lab and gets a daughter who has a sensitivity disorder, so she studies (or already knows?) psychology and uses her robot-science to help her daugher, and meanwhile a random prosecutor (who already has a job) comes there because his sister works there... I guess(?). Then he studies samurai lessons under Metis and she teaches him psychology which gave him his infamous "power of suggestion" technique in court. Then he takes the blame for the murder of Metis and starts sporting teared eye-liner to show how sad his time has been in jail, and he finds his pet bird in jail and then he starts prosecuting despite of being in jail because Edgeworth needed to draw out the real murderer behind the incident, (and willingly lets a prosecutor who's convicted for murder represent the law for a time while the audiences distrust the system; he willingly supports the mantra "The end justifies the means" the game is trying to tell us is wrong for... like that was the entire point of case 5-3 :edgey: .)

I can see why someone would say "that makes sense" but it doesn't make common sense if you know what I mean. You can literally feel how these characters were designed for each other artificially because either the plot or the character-plotting demanded it. It's not full of holes like AJAA perhaps, but it's terrible writing... terrible writing that "makes sense" "logically"
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Getting back on topic, I would like to see Nahyuta in another game to present him in a different light, kind of how Franziska was handled in the games after JFA. Nahyuta is essentially Franziska without the breakdown, and that leaves a lot to be desired.
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linkenski wrote:
I think it's the whole story in 5-5 that makes all parts included (Athena, Blackquill, Metis etc.) feel messy. So the mom works at a robotics lab and gets a daughter who has a sensitivity disorder, so she studies (or already knows?) psychology and uses her robot-science to help her daugher, and meanwhile a random prosecutor (who already has a job) comes there because his sister works there... I guess(?). Then he studies samurai lessons under Metis and she teaches him psychology which gave him his infamous "power of suggestion" technique in court. Then he takes the blame for the murder of Metis and starts sporting teared eye-liner to show how sad his time has been in jail, and he finds his pet bird in jail and then he starts prosecuting despite of being in jail because Edgeworth needed to draw out the real murderer behind the incident, (and willingly lets a prosecutor who's convicted for murder represent the law for a time while the audiences distrust the system; he willingly supports the mantra "The end justifies the means" the game is trying to tell us is wrong for... like that was the entire point of case 5-3 :edgey: .)

I can see why someone would say "that makes sense" but it doesn't make common sense if you know what I mean. You can literally feel how these characters were designed for each other artificially because either the plot or the character-plotting demanded it. It's not full of holes like AJAA perhaps, but it's terrible writing... terrible writing that "makes sense" "logically"

I'd argue it sounds messy because you seem to have a pretty loose grasp of 5-5's backstory.

Metis holds a psychology degree. She works in GYAXA's robotics center as half of a project to create robots that understand human emotions. On the side, she used the resources at her disposal to create sound canceling headphones for Athena. Later, Simon meets Metis (presumably through Aura), and begins to learn psychology from her in order to make himself more intimidating as a prosecutor. Metis is murdered, Simon takes the blame and goes to jail.

Fairly simple, at least by Ace Attorney standards, and certainly a lot less complicated than something like the Mia/Godot backstory from T&T. To clear up a couple of misconceptions, Simon never took sword/samurai lessons from Metis, the game never states that Simon routinely went to the space center before he started taking psychology lessons.

Edgeworth's plot to end "teh dork age of teh law" does admittedly wander into the realm of over complicatedness. But that's not an inherent part of Blackquill's character or a character defining part of his backstory, and as far as he himself goes, I thoroughly disagree that he's handled messily. He certainly seems ridiculous at first glance, but DD does a good job of tying everything together to turn him into a cohesive character by the end of the game.
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MBr wrote:
Getting back on topic, I would like to see Nahyuta in another game to present him in a different light, kind of how Franziska was handled in the games after JFA. Nahyuta is essentially Franziska without the breakdown, and that leaves a lot to be desired.


I was really hoping he'd cry in relief at the end or something, but no. I feel like if he did, he would have felt so much more human.
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Eh I liked him but I don't especially hate any prosecutor.

He played his theme well. He comes from a very zealous and heavily religious country and its ingrained in everything he does.

I really liked how this was highlighted when he first goes up against Apollo in Case 2 and the Judge actually has to admonish him for how brutal he is to the defence. I mean...never before has the judge had to step in like that to tell a Prosecutor they are far out of line. That highlighted a real difference for me.

As for how he was blackmailed? Eh I don't think it was an act most of the time. He's more the resignation prosecutor than the last rites prosecutor. He'd probably convinced himself that he did want all the foul things he said as the only way to cope in that scenario.

Plus watching him bind Nick's pointer finger was hilarious.

Still he's a very serious and committed character, not everyone needed to be played for laughs and it worked in the end I felt where there is a lot of serious tones and moods being discussed. I mean I don't think any case has had quite as sudden and personal a blow as the twist in the end. His mood matched the gravitas I'd expect of a monk and suited the atmosphere of the game....except for 6-4 god they did not need that case.
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