Court Records
https://forums.court-records.net/

Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=32253		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Nurio [ Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Exactly my point. Thank you, you two!
Author:  Franzise Deauxnim [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Name: Rules of Spirit Channeling
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 6-3, Original trilogy
Description:
Spoiler: SoJ, AA, JfA, T&T
So there's a couple rules to spirit channeling made a lot clearer in SoJ than was made in the first games. One of them is that when a spirit is pulled back from the afterlife, it retains its memories up to the point when it died, and nothing else. There's been several times when Mia was channeled, though, and she knew things that had happened while she was dead (although this is inconsistent even in the originals, sometimes Mia wouldn't know what was happening like when Maya was kidnapped by deKiller)

The bigger problem, though, is the requirements for channeling a spirit; you need to know the spirit's name and face. In that case, how did Maya channel Dahlia in 3-5? She didn't know what Dahlia looked like. You could argue that knowing what Iris looked like would work since they were twins, but then Mia would have to tell Maya to imagine Iris' face, and how would Mia know to do that? She didn't know who Iris was (unless, again, she somehow saw Iris while Maya wasn't channeling her)
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Name: Rules of Spirit Channeling
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 6-3, Original trilogy
Description:
Spoiler: SoJ, AA, JfA, T&T
So there's a couple rules to spirit channeling made a lot clearer in SoJ than was made in the first games. One of them is that when a spirit is pulled back from the afterlife, it retains its memories up to the point when it died, and nothing else. There's been several times when Mia was channeled, though, and she knew things that had happened while she was dead (although this is inconsistent even in the originals, sometimes Mia wouldn't know what was happening like when Maya was kidnapped by deKiller)

The bigger problem, though, is the requirements for channeling a spirit; you need to know the spirit's name and face. In that case, how did Maya channel Dahlia in 3-5? She didn't know what Dahlia looked like. You could argue that knowing what Iris looked like would work since they were twins, but then Mia would have to tell Maya to imagine Iris' face, and how would Mia know to do that? She didn't know who Iris was (unless, again, she somehow saw Iris while Maya wasn't channeling her)


Spoiler:
Mia possibly would have seen Iris back in the Dahlia case. If she was looking into Valerie's death it makes sense she'd know about her family and an identical twin sister.
Author:  TheBlarghMan [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Pierre wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Name: Rules of Spirit Channeling
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 6-3, Original trilogy
Description:
Spoiler: SoJ, AA, JfA, T&T
So there's a couple rules to spirit channeling made a lot clearer in SoJ than was made in the first games. One of them is that when a spirit is pulled back from the afterlife, it retains its memories up to the point when it died, and nothing else. There's been several times when Mia was channeled, though, and she knew things that had happened while she was dead (although this is inconsistent even in the originals, sometimes Mia wouldn't know what was happening like when Maya was kidnapped by deKiller)

The bigger problem, though, is the requirements for channeling a spirit; you need to know the spirit's name and face. In that case, how did Maya channel Dahlia in 3-5? She didn't know what Dahlia looked like. You could argue that knowing what Iris looked like would work since they were twins, but then Mia would have to tell Maya to imagine Iris' face, and how would Mia know to do that? She didn't know who Iris was (unless, again, she somehow saw Iris while Maya wasn't channeling her)


Spoiler:
Mia possibly would have seen Iris back in the Dahlia case. If she was looking into Valerie's death it makes sense she'd know about her family and an identical twin sister.

Another possibility is that Maya simply knew what Dahlia looked like. Dahlia's conviction was Mia's first victory as a lawyer, and she may have bragged about it to Maya at some point in the past, perhaps showing the evidence used or an article explaining how the case went.
Author:  Ash [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Name: Rules of Spirit Channeling
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 6-3, Original trilogy
Description:
Spoiler: SoJ, AA, JfA, T&T
So there's a couple rules to spirit channeling made a lot clearer in SoJ than was made in the first games. One of them is that when a spirit is pulled back from the afterlife, it retains its memories up to the point when it died, and nothing else. There's been several times when Mia was channeled, though, and she knew things that had happened while she was dead (although this is inconsistent even in the originals, sometimes Mia wouldn't know what was happening like when Maya was kidnapped by deKiller)

The bigger problem, though, is the requirements for channeling a spirit; you need to know the spirit's name and face. In that case, how did Maya channel Dahlia in 3-5? She didn't know what Dahlia looked like. You could argue that knowing what Iris looked like would work since they were twins, but then Mia would have to tell Maya to imagine Iris' face, and how would Mia know to do that? She didn't know who Iris was (unless, again, she somehow saw Iris while Maya wasn't channeling her)

Spoiler: 3-5
Maya did know Dahlia's face. Dahlia tried to kill her. Maya only channeled her after Dahlia's attack.
Author:  linkenski [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Every time I think of Cornered Heart it reminds me of how ridiculously high the stakes were in each case, because that was usually the cue. Actually it felt a bit like a replacement to what used to be this team's usage of Tell The Truth, you know, a moment where it's like "The point of no return!" that the whole case has been building up to.

It's also funny to me how we went from almost no stakes in AAI to absurdly high stakes, and in every case, with SoJ.
Author:  Franzise Deauxnim [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Pierre wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
Name: Rules of Spirit Channeling
Type of cough-up: Inconsistency
Location: 6-3, Original trilogy
Description:
Spoiler: SoJ, AA, JfA, T&T
So there's a couple rules to spirit channeling made a lot clearer in SoJ than was made in the first games. One of them is that when a spirit is pulled back from the afterlife, it retains its memories up to the point when it died, and nothing else. There's been several times when Mia was channeled, though, and she knew things that had happened while she was dead (although this is inconsistent even in the originals, sometimes Mia wouldn't know what was happening like when Maya was kidnapped by deKiller)

The bigger problem, though, is the requirements for channeling a spirit; you need to know the spirit's name and face. In that case, how did Maya channel Dahlia in 3-5? She didn't know what Dahlia looked like. You could argue that knowing what Iris looked like would work since they were twins, but then Mia would have to tell Maya to imagine Iris' face, and how would Mia know to do that? She didn't know who Iris was (unless, again, she somehow saw Iris while Maya wasn't channeling her)


Spoiler:
Mia possibly would have seen Iris back in the Dahlia case. If she was looking into Valerie's death it makes sense she'd know about her family and an identical twin sister.

Spoiler: T&T
Yet Mia never even considered the possibility that Iris was involved when Phoenix kept insisting how the "Dahlia" he knew was completely different? Idk, seems like a stretch


Ash wrote:
Spoiler: 3-5
Maya did know Dahlia's face. Dahlia tried to kill her. Maya only channeled her after Dahlia's attack.

......... :bite:

crap you're right, it's been so long since I played that case
Author:  Nurio [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
linkenski wrote:
Every time I think of Cornered Heart it reminds me of how ridiculously high the stakes were in each case, because that was usually the cue. Actually it felt a bit like a replacement to what used to be this team's usage of Tell The Truth, you know, a moment where it's like "The point of no return!" that the whole case has been building up to.

It's also funny to me how we went from almost no stakes in AAI to absurdly high stakes, and in every case, with SoJ.

...Wrong thread? :yogi:
Author:  Apollo4Justice [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
linkenski wrote:
Every time I think of Cornered Heart it reminds me of how ridiculously high the stakes were in each case, because that was usually the cue. Actually it felt a bit like a replacement to what used to be this team's usage of Tell The Truth, you know, a moment where it's like "The point of no return!" that the whole case has been building up to.

It's also funny to me how we went from almost no stakes in AAI to absurdly high stakes, and in every case, with SoJ.

...Wrong thread? :yogi:

Maybe that's the cough-up he wanted to post here? :basil: But if it was, he didn't seem to follow proper format.
Author:  magnus_orion [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.
Author:  Misokrattz [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.


^ That so much. Honestly, I thought that exact thing when that happened in Spirit of Justice. And even in DD. It's like, so what, you stopped the bracelet from continuing to tell Pollo to focus, but it's kind of too little to late, it already technically told him. XD
What I always adored about Perceive was that it wasn't magic. But it seems after AJ, they kinda just ... changed it to be magic. Like it's all his bracelet's doing and he has no talent what-so-ever. The mineral the bracelet was made of shrunk with heat slightly, hence, when Pollo's body tensed up when he saw a tell, the bracelet would tighten, grabbing his attention to focus on their tells. That was neato, I liked that.
But since Dual Destinies it just seems like a magical item just as the Magatama.
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.



Pfft
Spoiler:
Apollo's power doesn't need to be nullified by the beads. That's nonsense! Its nullified by the fact Nahyuta is aware he's using it. If it depends on Nahyuta doing a subconscious movement and getting interrogated on it then simply knowing Apollo is going to do something about it allows you to change it.

All he has to do is watch Apollo rub his bracelet in realisation and go "oh no you don't!" And change his position (such as by using his usual bead admonishment) to nullify the power.
Author:  magnus_orion [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Pierre wrote:
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.



Pfft
Spoiler:
Apollo's power doesn't need to be nullified by the beads. That's nonsense! Its nullified by the fact Nahyuta is aware he's using it. If it depends on Nahyuta doing a subconscious movement and getting interrogated on it then simply knowing Apollo is going to do something about it allows you to change it.

All he has to do is watch Apollo rub his bracelet in realisation and go "oh no you don't!" And change his position (such as by using his usual bead admonishment) to nullify the power.


Spoiler:
:eh?: Isn't the whole point of tells that they're unintentional/subconscious? How do you know what to stop doing?
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
magnus_orion wrote:
Pierre wrote:
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.



Pfft
Spoiler:
Apollo's power doesn't need to be nullified by the beads. That's nonsense! Its nullified by the fact Nahyuta is aware he's using it. If it depends on Nahyuta doing a subconscious movement and getting interrogated on it then simply knowing Apollo is going to do something about it allows you to change it.

All he has to do is watch Apollo rub his bracelet in realisation and go "oh no you don't!" And change his position (such as by using his usual bead admonishment) to nullify the power.


Spoiler:
:eh?: Isn't the whole point of tells that they're unintentional/subconscious? How do you know what to stop doing?



Spoiler:
Doesn't matter if you don't know you own tells provided you know Apollo's power.

Consider this:

If Apollo touches his bracelet when looking at you then he is detecting an unconscious tell of yours.

Apollo is touching his bracelet therefore you are exhibiting an unconscious tell.

Therefore you don't need to know your weaknesses you only need to know Apollo's behaviour....something which Nahyuta as his brother for about 10 years would know about.
Author:  luck [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Misokrattz wrote:
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.


^ That so much. Honestly, I thought that exact thing when that happened in Spirit of Justice. And even in DD. It's like, so what, you stopped the bracelet from continuing to tell Pollo to focus, but it's kind of too little to late, it already technically told him. XD
What I always adored about Perceive was that it wasn't magic. But it seems after AJ, they kinda just ... changed it to be magic. Like it's all his bracelet's doing and he has no talent what-so-ever. The mineral the bracelet was made of shrunk with heat slightly, hence, when Pollo's body tensed up when he saw a tell, the bracelet would tighten, grabbing his attention to focus on their tells. That was neato, I liked that.
But since Dual Destinies it just seems like a magical item just as the Magatama.

What Nayhuta and Taka did was simply stopping Apollo from concentrating by causing him pain. It doesn't matter if he knows when to concentrate, there's no way he could focus with a hawk attacking him or the bracelet squashing his wrist.
Author:  Southern Corn [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Did they ever clarify whether Manov stole the diary,or was it just planted there?
Author:  Apollo4Justice [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Southern Corn wrote:
Did they ever clarify whether Manov stole the diary,or was it just planted there?

I don't believe they mentioned that but either
Spoiler: Case 2
he DID steal the diary, on the request of Roger, or Roger planted it there to give Trucy a motive, which I wouldn't consider improbable since he planted the blood to implicate Trucy.
Author:  Southern Corn [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Do they ever mention how Betty got her fingerprints on the coffin?
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Don't we see her placing Trucy inside the coffin as part of the act?
Author:  Southern Corn [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Pierre wrote:
Don't we see her placing Trucy inside the coffin as part of the act?

Nope,that was Bonny.
Author:  Nurio [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Betty was sitting on top of the coffin during the anime sequence, right? I'm pretty sure that was Betty since she 'teleports' away after that, meaning that's when the switch to Bonny happened.
Author:  Nurio [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Misokrattz wrote:
magnus_orion wrote:
Spoiler: 6-5, AJ
Name: Apollo's Bracelet
Type of cough-up: consistency across titles
Location: case 5
In Case 5, Apollo's perceive is nullified by Nahyuta who "tightens" Apollo's bracelet. But according to AJ:AA, Apollo's bracelet isn't magic. It's just a bracelet. Apollo's power is that he senses something is off and his body reacts subtly. He feels the tightness of his bracelet because its so well fitted, that his unconscious reaction to the tell causes it to feel tight. Once that's done he can just use his really good eyesight to find the tell, the bracelet no longer figures in. So even if Nahyuta is successfully tightening Apollo's bracelet (how?) so that he can't react to the tell properly, he already knew there was a tell at that point, so the bracelet shouldn't figure into it anymore... he should still be able to perceive the tell... but somehow Nahyuta has still nullified the power by messing with the bracelet.


^ That so much. Honestly, I thought that exact thing when that happened in Spirit of Justice. And even in DD. It's like, so what, you stopped the bracelet from continuing to tell Pollo to focus, but it's kind of too little to late, it already technically told him. XD
What I always adored about Perceive was that it wasn't magic. But it seems after AJ, they kinda just ... changed it to be magic. Like it's all his bracelet's doing and he has no talent what-so-ever. The mineral the bracelet was made of shrunk with heat slightly, hence, when Pollo's body tensed up when he saw a tell, the bracelet would tighten, grabbing his attention to focus on their tells. That was neato, I liked that.
But since Dual Destinies it just seems like a magical item just as the Magatama.

Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?
Author:  Bad Player [ Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>
Author:  Misokrattz [ Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>


Exactly that, it most likely was just the size for a normal adult wrist, since it previously belonged to his mother. But that reminds me that in DD, like, how did Tanooki man steal the bracelet from Pollo without him noticing, or at all if the bracelet is so snug? XD Guess he was just that good of a thief. But uhh, I won't get into it for that's neither the time nor the thread for this.

But whoa that reminded me of a cough-up for this game actually. Yay for rambling! :acro:

Spoiler:
Name: Magic Rosary!
Type of cough-up: Animation error
Location: Nahyuta in Court
Description: Think of when Nahyuta slams his fist on the desk. He takes the beaded necklace off, and slams down. Seems legitimate until you think of his beautiful braid. The beads clip through his hair. In reality, that motion wouldn't be possible without some struggle of getting his long braid through the loop of his necklace XD It's not a big cough-up and it's understandable for video game's sake.
They should make that an emote. Nayhuta just fumbling to take off his necklace and it getting stuck in his hair. :will: It'd be like a blooper reel!
Author:  Nurio [ Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>

I could've sworn I already replied to this... (I even remember what I typed...) But I guess not.
"Made it about the size" doesn't sound accurate enough for it to be an exact fit. I mean, it's an exact, exact fit. So, just winging it would not have been a possibility. I don't remember AA4 too much, but if the bracelet was originally Thalassa's, then it's even more extraordinary Apollo's wrists are the exact same size as his mother's. There are very few people with wrists the same size as their mother. This would be such a huge coincidence, you could call it a miracle.
I do remember AA4 mentioning the bracelet was made of some special metal that contracts based on heat, so it would fit snugly around the wrist. But even so, I find it a bit strange...
But to be fair, this is probably more a cough-up from AA4 than SoJ...

Misokrattz wrote:
Name: Magic Rosary!
Type of cough-up: Animation error
Location: Nahyuta in Court
Description: Think of when Nahyuta slams his fist on the desk. He takes the beaded necklace off, and slams down. Seems legitimate until you think of his beautiful braid. The beads clip through his hair. In reality, that motion wouldn't be possible without some struggle of getting his long braid through the loop of his necklace XD It's not a big cough-up and it's understandable for video game's sake.
They should make that an emote. Nayhuta just fumbling to take off his necklace and it getting stuck in his hair. :will: It'd be like a blooper reel!

Oh! Nice catch! That's surely an unconventional cough-up, but I'd count it as one nonetheless. That's something I never would've thought of
Author:  magnus_orion [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>

I could've sworn I already replied to this... (I even remember what I typed...) But I guess not.
"Made it about the size" doesn't sound accurate enough for it to be an exact fit. I mean, it's an exact, exact fit. So, just winging it would not have been a possibility. I don't remember AA4 too much, but if the bracelet was originally Thalassa's, then it's even more extraordinary Apollo's wrists are the exact same size as his mother's. There are very few people with wrists the same size as their mother. This would be such a huge coincidence, you could call it a miracle.
I do remember AA4 mentioning the bracelet was made of some special metal that contracts based on heat, so it would fit snugly around the wrist. But even so, I find it a bit strange...
But to be fair, this is probably more a cough-up from AA4 than SoJ...

Apollo's wrists being the exact same size as his mother's is his actual super power.
Author:  magnus_orion [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>

I could've sworn I already replied to this... (I even remember what I typed...) But I guess not.
"Made it about the size" doesn't sound accurate enough for it to be an exact fit. I mean, it's an exact, exact fit. So, just winging it would not have been a possibility. I don't remember AA4 too much, but if the bracelet was originally Thalassa's, then it's even more extraordinary Apollo's wrists are the exact same size as his mother's. There are very few people with wrists the same size as their mother. This would be such a huge coincidence, you could call it a miracle.
I do remember AA4 mentioning the bracelet was made of some special metal that contracts based on heat, so it would fit snugly around the wrist. But even so, I find it a bit strange...
But to be fair, this is probably more a cough-up from AA4 than SoJ...

Apollo's wrists being the exact same size as his mother's is his actual super power.
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
I don't even get why its being treated as pseudoscience. It seems like a straight up bloodline power. Its claimed Trucy can do it too and she doesn't need a special bracelet. Hell hobonick claims she taught him how to do it presumably in some diluted form. Noticing twitches and tells is about as mystical as Edgeworth's logic system.

If the Gramayres were detectives instead of magicians I doubt we'd even consider it mystical in the slightest.
Author:  Bad Player [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Something about the bracelet that I also don't understand is that it's made to be a perfect fit. But here in SoJ we see he has it since a small child and it's far from a perfect fit. What, did the makers of that bracelet just predict exactly how thick Apollo's wrists would grow over time?

They probably just made the bracelets about the size of an adult wrist? I mean, it wasn't made for Apollo, and that makes more sense than having it magically double/halve in size >_>

I could've sworn I already replied to this... (I even remember what I typed...) But I guess not.
"Made it about the size" doesn't sound accurate enough for it to be an exact fit. I mean, it's an exact, exact fit. So, just winging it would not have been a possibility. I don't remember AA4 too much, but if the bracelet was originally Thalassa's, then it's even more extraordinary Apollo's wrists are the exact same size as his mother's. There are very few people with wrists the same size as their mother. This would be such a huge coincidence, you could call it a miracle.
I do remember AA4 mentioning the bracelet was made of some special metal that contracts based on heat, so it would fit snugly around the wrist. But even so, I find it a bit strange...
But to be fair, this is probably more a cough-up from AA4 than SoJ...

Because it's a video game...?
Obviously it's not going to make perfect 100% sense, but they wanted to give some explanation, rather than letting it just be lolmagic (like the magatama) or just totally unexplained (like Athena). And having it be about the size of an adult wrist and then slightly contracting to fit snugly makes a lot more sense than the bracelet shrinking all the way down to fit a child's wrist.
And I doubt they were made for Thalassa either. They're probably a Gramarye heirloom.

Pierre wrote:
I don't even get why its being treated as pseudoscience. It seems like a straight up bloodline power. Its claimed Trucy can do it too and she doesn't need a special bracelet. Hell hobonick claims she taught him how to do it presumably in some diluted form. Noticing twitches and tells is about as mystical as Edgeworth's logic system.

If the Gramayres were detectives instead of magicians I doubt we'd even consider it mystical in the slightest.

It is a bloodline power, but they gave it a pseudoscientific explanation so that it wasn't just lolmagic out of nowhere. They also explain how Trucy can't do it as well as Apollo, since she doesn't have a bracelet, and how Nick can't do it as well as Trucy.
Author:  Southern Corn [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Actually,when Maya is cross examined in case 5, she says she couldn't have channeled Inga because she couldn't have done the channeling pose.

Then how did she channel Dhurke?
Author:  Nurio [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Bad Player wrote:
Because it's a video game...?

That's a bit of an odd reply in this thread. This thread is made specifically to look for things that don't add up in this video game, but were made this way either as an oversight or because it's a video game... You could reply to everything as "It's just a game". =P
We're all about discussing the smallest details and try to make sense of it within the game universe. Explaining it in a meta way like "It's just a game" or "It was an oversight from the game staff" is no fun.

Bad Player wrote:
Pierre wrote:
I don't even get why its being treated as pseudoscience. It seems like a straight up bloodline power. Its claimed Trucy can do it too and she doesn't need a special bracelet. Hell hobonick claims she taught him how to do it presumably in some diluted form. Noticing twitches and tells is about as mystical as Edgeworth's logic system.

If the Gramayres were detectives instead of magicians I doubt we'd even consider it mystical in the slightest.

It is a bloodline power, but they gave it a pseudoscientific explanation so that it wasn't just lolmagic out of nowhere. They also explain how Trucy can't do it as well as Apollo, since she doesn't have a bracelet, and how Nick can't do it as well as Trucy.

The way I remember it is that Trucy could do it just as well as Apollo, but the difference is that Apollo knows when to do it thanks to the bracelet, and Trucy doesn't. The only reason Trucy was helpful in this way is because she knew she had to do it when her dad and some customer were playing Poker together, because that's a definite moment someone would have a subconscious tell.
Author:  Unmei25 [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Southern Corn wrote:
Spoiler:
Actually,when Maya is cross examined in case 5, she says she couldn't have channeled Inga because she couldn't have done the channeling pose.

Then how did she channel Dhurke?


I was thinking this myself XD

So either...

A. She lied about needing to do the pose. She did channel Mia without the need to, right?

B.
Spoiler:
Dhurke somehow untied her first...? He said once she channels him, he'd easily break through the ropes though......? (so no likely, huh?)


Ash wrote:
Spoiler:
Nurio wrote:
Name: Teleporting Datz
Type of cough-up: Impossible situation
Location: Chapter 6-5
Description:
Datz is still in Japanifornia during the civil trial at 1 PM, yet in the trial after that, we discover that Datz was also at the Khura'in bazaar at 2 PM throwing firecrackers, despite all the main characters just barely reaching Khura'in by 2:45 PM by private jet. This seems only possible if Datz can teleport.


Not sure if they changed this in the localized version, but I remember that in the original text, the whole deal in Kurain is set the day AFTER the civil trial; Inga specifically says their deal is to be tomorrow at 15:00. That's why it's called the Second Day in the menu.


Suddenly I find it hilarious that the first thing Datz does the moment he returns home is to pull a prank :moe-laugh:
Author:  Bad Player [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Because it's a video game...?

That's a bit of an odd reply in this thread. This thread is made specifically to look for things that don't add up in this video game, but were made this way either as an oversight or because it's a video game... You could reply to everything as "It's just a game". =P
We're all about discussing the smallest details and try to make sense of it within the game universe. Explaining it in a meta way like "It's just a game" or "It was an oversight from the game staff" is no fun.

Well, no. AA is supposed to be a murder mystery that for the most part operates within the confines of reality. So when something in the mystery doesn't make sense or doesn't work, that's a cough-up. But they've introduced a couple of magical/pseudoscientific elements to make the game more interesting, and trying to examine these non-realistic elements within the confines of reality is nothing more than an exercise in futility. Sometimes they create explicit rules for the magical elements to operate within (PLvAA is basically one giant example of that), and in that case examining the non-realistic element through the rules set for it is fine, but I don't think they've said anything about the bracelet except for "it's a magic metal lol," which doesn't provide a great basis to really discuss what size it's supposed to be.

Quote:
The way I remember it is that Trucy could do it just as well as Apollo, but the difference is that Apollo knows when to do it thanks to the bracelet, and Trucy doesn't. The only reason Trucy was helpful in this way is because she knew she had to do it when her dad and some customer were playing Poker together, because that's a definite moment someone would have a subconscious tell.

Spoiler: space saver
Apollo:
I felt my bracelet vibrate
just now...

Trucy:
Your bracelet...?

Apollo:
Just like yesterday.
Like you said!

When a witness is unsure of
something, their nervous
habit gives them away!

Trucy:
But... I can't see anything,
Apollo.

Apollo:
Eh...?

Apollo:
(Then what's my bracelet
reacting to?)

Trucy:
Wait, maybe...
Yes, that has to be it!

Apollo:
What has to be it?

Trucy:
Your senses, Apollo...

Trucy:
They must be sharper than
mine!


Well, either way you want to interpret it, the bracelet still made Apollo better.
Author:  linkenski [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Southern Corn wrote:
Actually,when Maya is cross examined in case 5, she says she couldn't have channeled Inga because she couldn't have done the channeling pose.

Then how did she channel Dhurke?

Wrong. She couldn't channel Inga because she didn't know his full name was "Inga Karkhuul Yadayadayadayada Khura'in III"
Such a stupid rule. I think what they did to spirit channeling in this game is akin to when Star Wars Episode 1 explained The Force from a biological biological perspective. It's the same thing. You can't quantify it. Spirit channeling was vague by design because it's meant to be spiritual and "reaching into yourself to learn it" stuff. In SoJ, The "you have to know someone's FULL NAME" is sooo dumb. In general I got deja-vus to MGS4 with this game in how they tried quantifying or expaining certain things with "rules" needlessly.

Same with Trucy and her notebook as a reason why she's putting on a brave face. It dumbs her down IMHO; a misinterpretation of the way she was written in AJAA.
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
I'm going to disagree on several points. Just because something g is "spiritual" doesn't mean there aren't hard and fast rules. In fact if anything in all the fantasy fiction I've experienced the spiritual world is riddled with rules. Spell components, magical lines, wand movements, ritual dances, there is a lot of rules and rhetoric to spiritual stuff. Just because they quantify those doesn't make it dumb to me.

In fact the "true name" rule I would argue is one of the most common in magical fiction. Any time someone says a spell in another tongue, its playing off the concept that there is a "correct" magical language you need to speak. There's also the concept of a "true name" something mystical and mysterious as a name that only the magical force of the universe knows and if a magic wielder ever learns then they can basically control you forever.

So yeah...requiring a true name to summon someone seems quite a common trope and not so contrived to me.
Author:  Nurio [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Bad Player wrote:
Well, no. AA is supposed to be a murder mystery that for the most part operates within the confines of reality. So when something in the mystery doesn't make sense or doesn't work, that's a cough-up. But they've introduced a couple of magical/pseudoscientific elements to make the game more interesting, and trying to examine these non-realistic elements within the confines of reality is nothing more than an exercise in futility.

Were we talking about the same thing? Because I didn't really talk about anything all that magical. I was talking about the size of the bracelet, which is a very physical and real thing. If you strip all magical context from this inconsistency, it would still exist, because this inconsistency is not inherent to the magical capabilities of Apollo. It's simply a bracelet whose size doesn't make sense.

Bad Player wrote:
but I don't think they've said anything about the bracelet except for "it's a magic metal lol," which doesn't provide a great basis to really discuss what size it's supposed to be.

That's exactly the problem I have with it. If the explanation was just "It's magic metal", then that's fine! That means it would always be the size of the wearer's wrist. I'd be 100% okay with that, and there'd be no cough-up.
The cough-up is that this ISN'T the case as it appears in SoJ, as it's way too big for Apollo when he was younger, so it doesn't just wrap to the wearer's wrist like that.

Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: space saver
Apollo:
I felt my bracelet vibrate
just now...

Trucy:
Your bracelet...?

Apollo:
Just like yesterday.
Like you said!

When a witness is unsure of
something, their nervous
habit gives them away!

Trucy:
But... I can't see anything,
Apollo.

Apollo:
Eh...?

Apollo:
(Then what's my bracelet
reacting to?)

Trucy:
Wait, maybe...
Yes, that has to be it!

Apollo:
What has to be it?

Trucy:
Your senses, Apollo...

Trucy:
They must be sharper than
mine!


Well, either way you want to interpret it, the bracelet still made Apollo better.

I stand corrected!
Author:  Bad Player [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
but I don't think they've said anything about the bracelet except for "it's a magic metal lol," which doesn't provide a great basis to really discuss what size it's supposed to be.

That's exactly the problem I have with it. If the explanation was just "It's magic metal", then that's fine! That means it would always be the size of the wearer's wrist. I'd be 100% okay with that, and there'd be no cough-up.
The cough-up is that this ISN'T the case as it appears in SoJ, as it's way too big for Apollo when he was younger, so it doesn't just wrap to the wearer's wrist like that.

Well, just because it's a magic metal that can wrap to the wearer's wrist doesn't mean it can wrap to any wrist--there can still be an upper and lower limit.
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Bad Player wrote:
Nurio wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
but I don't think they've said anything about the bracelet except for "it's a magic metal lol," which doesn't provide a great basis to really discuss what size it's supposed to be.

That's exactly the problem I have with it. If the explanation was just "It's magic metal", then that's fine! That means it would always be the size of the wearer's wrist. I'd be 100% okay with that, and there'd be no cough-up.
The cough-up is that this ISN'T the case as it appears in SoJ, as it's way too big for Apollo when he was younger, so it doesn't just wrap to the wearer's wrist like that.

Well, just because it's a magic metal that can wrap to the wearer's wrist doesn't mean it can wrap to any wrist--there can still be an upper and lower limit.



Clearly his bracelet isn't magical and is just an heirloom from his mother.

The feeling he gets when he detects a tell is simply his fist clenching up from unconscious desire to beat the truth out of someone. As he tenses up his fist touches the bracelet.

Its Apollo's own unconscious tell that let's him detect twitches. He just assumes its the bracelet as it feels tighter at the time when actually its his muscles that are moving rather than the bracelet shrinking.

/halfjoking.
Author:  Southern Corn [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
linkenski wrote:
Southern Corn wrote:
Actually,when Maya is cross examined in case 5, she says she couldn't have channeled Inga because she couldn't have done the channeling pose.

Then how did she channel Dhurke?

Wrong. She couldn't channel Inga because she didn't know his full name was "Inga Karkhuul Yadayadayadayada Khura'in III"
Such a stupid rule. I think what they did to spirit channeling in this game is akin to when Star Wars Episode 1 explained The Force from a biological biological perspective. It's the same thing. You can't quantify it. Spirit channeling was vague by design because it's meant to be spiritual and "reaching into yourself to learn it" stuff. In SoJ, The "you have to know someone's FULL NAME" is sooo dumb. In general I got deja-vus to MGS4 with this game in how they tried quantifying or expaining certain things with "rules" needlessly.

Same with Trucy and her notebook as a reason why she's putting on a brave face. It dumbs her down IMHO; a misinterpretation of the way she was written in AJAA.

Yes,but that was ONE of the reasons. She says when you press her that she had to do the channeling mantra to channel someone.


Soo my question still stands.

Also,'she lied' isn't good enough for me. We clearly see her channel the abbot in case 3 in that pose. So it's been established. And we never did see Maya or Misty channel onscreen in OG trilogy,right?

Oh,and I get you on the 'real name' thing. Spirit channeling should be something that is beyond human rationale like 'real names'. Even if they're building off T&T,it's still kinda meh.
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spirit of Justice Cough Ups
Southern Corn wrote:
linkenski wrote:
Southern Corn wrote:
Actually,when Maya is cross examined in case 5, she says she couldn't have channeled Inga because she couldn't have done the channeling pose.

Then how did she channel Dhurke?

Wrong. She couldn't channel Inga because she didn't know his full name was "Inga Karkhuul Yadayadayadayada Khura'in III"
Such a stupid rule. I think what they did to spirit channeling in this game is akin to when Star Wars Episode 1 explained The Force from a biological biological perspective. It's the same thing. You can't quantify it. Spirit channeling was vague by design because it's meant to be spiritual and "reaching into yourself to learn it" stuff. In SoJ, The "you have to know someone's FULL NAME" is sooo dumb. In general I got deja-vus to MGS4 with this game in how they tried quantifying or expaining certain things with "rules" needlessly.

Same with Trucy and her notebook as a reason why she's putting on a brave face. It dumbs her down IMHO; a misinterpretation of the way she was written in AJAA.

Yes,but that was ONE of the reasons. She says when you press her that she had to do the channeling mantra to channel someone.


Soo my question still stands.

Also,'she lied' isn't good enough for me. We clearly see her channel the abbot in case 3 in that pose. So it's been established. And we never did see Maya or Misty channel onscreen in OG trilogy,right?

Oh,and I get you on the 'real name' thing. Spirit channeling should be something that is beyond human rationale like 'real names'. Even if they're building off T&T,it's still kinda meh.



The real name thing is totally valid :P see my other post.
Page 2 of 3 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/