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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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Case 2-3
Problem Moe not seeing something

On the last trial day, when everything is explained and it's a bust that hits the ringmaster and not Max himself with something... Phoenix says that the cloak had snagged onto the bust and then Acro simply pulled the bust, with the cloak attached, up and that resulted in it looking like Max was "flying/floating" from the crime scene.

My question is this... considering it's said that there are safety lights on in the area, lighting everything up, how come Moe didn't see the rope used to pull the bust up?

C-A
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Double question. Why did Moe see the bust "flying" instead of smashing against the side of the wall and grinding its way up?
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To both your questions, I go with the simplest solution: Moe didn't say everything despite claiming he was going to tell the whole truth. Why not? Perhaps he just didn't want to.

Nonetheless, a high school physics teacher could have argued that this crime was impossible... starting with the fact that Acro would put too much strain on his waist by pulling the thing up in the first place. He's supposed to be paralyzed, waist-down. Pulling something exerts strain on the waist due to torque, more or less dependent on one's position. It's especially hard to pull while sitting. Without the strength in his legs, most of that weight is put upon the waist to keep him upright. The bust would drop before he even draws it up a single foot.

Ah, well. Physics doesn't exist in this court, except maybe gravity.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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I will accept that as a solution. Moe lied. New headcanon

Also, can anyone answer these two from earlier in the thread?
JesusMonroe wrote:
Plot hole?
Spoiler: 5-2
They explain at the very end of 5-2 that Florent L'Belle didn't kill Damian Temna and the Alderman and make it look like they killed each other, because he didn't want Nine Tails to live as a symbol. He wanted to disparage the Nine Tails so people would abandon the anti-merger movement

HOWEVER, everyone believed Nine Tails to be the Alderman, and L'Belle went as far as actively hiding the fact that Temna was Nine Tails (because it would reveal he was the killer). So, why didn't he just kill them both, or kill Temna and frame the Alderman? It was just all so confusing



JesusMonroe wrote:
I just thought of something that makes Case 3-2 make absolutely no sense
Spoiler:
Ok, so Luke Atmey killed Kane Bullard because Kane was blackmailing him for being the "real" Mask DeMasque or whatever. Because of this, Luke killed him.

However, Luke's plan was to get a guilty verdict for the crime of being Mask DeMasque so he wouldn't get arrested for Kane's murder.

So, if Luke just told Kane to fuck off, Kane would've exposed Luke for helping a thief, and then Luke would've gone to jail for that crime. If Luke killed Kane, his plan was to go to jail for theft. So, either way (Kane dead or alive) Luke would've gone to jail for the same crime, except in one situation he didn't have to kill anyone (and not go to jail for murder)
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I will accept that as a solution. Moe lied. New headcanon

Also, can anyone answer these two from earlier in the thread?
JesusMonroe wrote:
Plot hole?
Spoiler: 5-2
They explain at the very end of 5-2 that Florent L'Belle didn't kill Damian Temna and the Alderman and make it look like they killed each other, because he didn't want Nine Tails to live as a symbol. He wanted to disparage the Nine Tails so people would abandon the anti-merger movement

HOWEVER, everyone believed Nine Tails to be the Alderman, and L'Belle went as far as actively hiding the fact that Temna was Nine Tails (because it would reveal he was the killer). So, why didn't he just kill them both, or kill Temna and frame the Alderman? It was just all so confusing



JesusMonroe wrote:
I just thought of something that makes Case 3-2 make absolutely no sense
Spoiler:
Ok, so Luke Atmey killed Kane Bullard because Kane was blackmailing him for being the "real" Mask DeMasque or whatever. Because of this, Luke killed him.

However, Luke's plan was to get a guilty verdict for the crime of being Mask DeMasque so he wouldn't get arrested for Kane's murder.

So, if Luke just told Kane to fuck off, Kane would've exposed Luke for helping a thief, and then Luke would've gone to jail for that crime. If Luke killed Kane, his plan was to go to jail for theft. So, either way (Kane dead or alive) Luke would've gone to jail for the same crime, except in one situation he didn't have to kill anyone (and not go to jail for murder)

L'Belle wanted the suspect pool to be focused on one particular person, namely the mayor who supposedly "killed" the hero Nine Tails. If he killed them both, the police would take forever to press charges, and could have left himself as a suspect. And while he could have framed the alderman for Tenma's death instead, it's possible he assumed Nine Tails fans wouldn't hate the alderman for killing an "evil" mayor. I guess L'Belle really hated the Nine Tails too if he wanted that name to suffer. It's a stupid plan, nonetheless.

As for Luke, when he realized he was going to jail anyway, he might as well get rid of the blighter than caused him so much trouble. The reason he went to jail for murder was because of Nick's posse, and out of his expectations.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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To both your questions, I go with the simplest solution: Moe didn't say everything despite claiming he was going to tell the whole truth. Why not? Perhaps he just didn't want to.


Better question, then. On the last trial day, Moe says "You mean Acro?" when Phoenix tells him he's gonna get the real murderer today. Um... okay, if Moa suspected Acro earlier, why did he not say that? Yeah yeah, family and all, but what about bringing Regina to the trial? His whole point in doing that was to give her a little reality check, that her actions have consequences and people do not "become stars" when they die* and all. If he knew that the murder was committed by someone, probably knew the reason why, too, he should've said something.

* And can I say that Moe is a total jerk about this? So what if Regina thinks that people who die become stars in the sky. If it makes her happy, let her believe that. As long as Moe doesn't actually know what happens to dead people, let Regina think that the dead people (and animals) are stars that may be watching over her.

As for the physics thing, I think something that may have stabilized his lower half is the wheelchair. Maybe the pulling up caused him to somewhat jiggle or move in it, but if its brakes were on, it would probably have stabilized him enough to pull it up. Jerkily, but he might've managed.

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Case 1-5
Item Those jar shards...
Problem Their... existence in the locker...

Okay, so Lana says she wiped the jar shards she found at the crime scene and hid them... then why exactly are they found in the evidence room, in front of Goodman's locker, from which they were clearly taken/fallen out from? I can guess that half of the evidence list is probably just listing each shard... but again: if Lana hid them, why are they still part of the SL-9 evidence?

C-A

PS: And about that stupid evidence list. If Edgeworth was so confused that the list was so short, since most run twice as long... don't these people have COMPUTERS? They're in 2016 and they don't have this type of data DIGITALIZED? They don't have a way to go to a computer program or so, type in the Case-Number and check the data? We're in 2014 and we digitalize as much as we can.
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CatMuto wrote:
Case 1-5
Item Those jar shards...
Problem Their... existence in the locker...

Okay, so Lana says she wiped the jar shards she found at the crime scene and hid them... then why exactly are they found in the evidence room, in front of Goodman's locker, from which they were clearly taken/fallen out from? I can guess that half of the evidence list is probably just listing each shard... but again: if Lana hid them, why are they still part of the SL-9 evidence?

C-A

PS: And about that stupid evidence list. If Edgeworth was so confused that the list was so short, since most run twice as long... don't these people have COMPUTERS? They're in 2016 and they don't have this type of data DIGITALIZED? They don't have a way to go to a computer program or so, type in the Case-Number and check the data? We're in 2014 and we digitalize as much as we can.

Now you're just beating a dead horse.
First, here's a script. Show me where Lana says she hid the jar shards.
Second, digitalizing confidential lists would just make them easier for outsiders to hack. *cough*MCBomber*cough* And maybe some people just prefer hard lists. I volunteered at hospital recently and all their patient information is kept in hard copies. It may seem inefficient but it keeps it confidential.
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Because it's always good to have backups in some form, be it in hard copies (copying the list and keeping it in a different, safe location) or digitalized (where they can't suffer loss by fire) Also, considering Edgeworth seemed confused, if not slightly suspicious, of the short evidence list and the type of perfectionist he is (or probably not, considering 1-5 seems to remove that character trait of his), you'd think he'd have checked up on whether he had obtained all of the necessary pieces for the case. And I'm sure he could've asked a different high ranked policeman, not necessarily Gant.

C-A

PS: And I'll continue to "beat this dead horse" since 1-5 just contradicts itself.
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CatMuto wrote:
Also, considering Edgeworth seemed confused, if not slightly suspicious, of the short evidence list and the type of perfectionist he is (or probably not, considering 1-5 seems to remove that character trait of his), you'd think he'd have checked up on whether he had obtained all of the necessary pieces for the case. And I'm sure he could've asked a different high ranked policeman, not necessarily Gant.
.If Edgeworth was really the perfectionist you claim he is, he would have forged something during 1-3 AND 3-4, two cases when it would have been beneficial for him to forge evidence, yet both times it's lampshaded that he didn't.
Well, I'm off to the FFXIII forums to beat that dead horse into the ground and more.
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sumguy28 wrote:
Well, I'm off to the FFXIII forums to beat that dead horse into the ground and more.



I don't remember anything in XIII contradicting itself.


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I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but.....

Spoiler: Dual Destinies
Case: 5-5
Problem: The REAL Bobby Fulbright
It's stated that The Phantom killed Bobby Fulbright and impersonated him. It's also stated that the real Bobby Fulbright's corpse was an unidentified corpse they found earlier. How the hell were they unable to identify it?! I mean, even if the Phantom disfigured his body or something, wouldn't they be able to identify it using DNA or fingerprints or something? Since he was in the police force, that information should be readily available to them!

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dimentiorules wrote:
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but.....

Spoiler: Dual Destinies
Case: 5-5
Problem: The REAL Bobby Fulbright
It's stated that The Phantom killed Bobby Fulbright and impersonated him. It's also stated that the real Bobby Fulbright's corpse was an unidentified corpse they found earlier. How the hell were they unable to identify it?! I mean, even if the Phantom disfigured his body or something, wouldn't they be able to identify it using DNA or fingerprints or something? Since he was in the police force, that information should be readily available to them!

The police force isn't smart. I think that's been established.
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dimentiorules wrote:
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but.....

Spoiler: Dual Destinies
Case: 5-5
Problem: The REAL Bobby Fulbright
It's stated that The Phantom killed Bobby Fulbright and impersonated him. It's also stated that the real Bobby Fulbright's corpse was an unidentified corpse they found earlier. How the hell were they unable to identify it?! I mean, even if the Phantom disfigured his body or something, wouldn't they be able to identify it using DNA or fingerprints or something? Since he was in the police force, that information should be readily available to them!

Spoiler: Well, there's one other possible explanation
It could have been completely burnt. Scorched skin is pretty hard to identify. To get a valid DNA sample, the body would have to be cut open to fetch some guts that weren't burnt.

As to how that could have happened, I dunno.

Edit: And when I say "I dunno", I mean
Spoiler:
how the body was burnt. Maybe there's a local crematory nearby, who knows? Burns can go deep, so even bones can be seared and the marrow hardened, making blood extraction difficult.
It really depends on how bad the body looked.
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Re: Phoenix Wright Cough UpsTopic%20Title
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^

Spoiler:
1) Do they take DNA samples for the police force? Fingerprints, I get, and I understand why the army would like to have blood samples, just in case, but the Original!Fulbright's DNA might not have been stored. Also, fingerprints are easy to destroy. Thing is, we don't know the state of the body. His teeth might have been destroyed to. W/o fingerprints and teeth, they'd have to rely on DNA, which would only work if the database holds a match.... which brings me to

2) And if I were an international spy going to take over someone's identity, I would definitely make sure I'd deal with the data of the original person. Switch for fake fingerprint/DNA samples, for example.

And as for how they identified him in the end; they may accidently have had DNA samples of the Original!Fulbright somewhere. A piece of hair still sticking in one of his older uniforms. It's also easier to look for something if you know what you're looking for.

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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but.....

Spoiler: Dual Destinies
Case: 5-5
Problem: The REAL Bobby Fulbright
It's stated that The Phantom killed Bobby Fulbright and impersonated him. It's also stated that the real Bobby Fulbright's corpse was an unidentified corpse they found earlier. How the hell were they unable to identify it?! I mean, even if the Phantom disfigured his body or something, wouldn't they be able to identify it using DNA or fingerprints or something? Since he was in the police force, that information should be readily available to them!

Spoiler: Well, there's one other possible explanation
It could have been completely burnt. Scorched skin is pretty hard to identify. To get a valid DNA sample, the body would have to be cut open to fetch some guts that weren't burnt.

As to how that could have happened, I dunno.


Spoiler:
Fingerprints aren't the only way to find out someone's DNA. As Ash said, there are also teeth - which can sometimes be more reliable than Fingerprints, since they are harder to destroy than fingerprints/skin. Ditto on hair, although that can be easily burned, too.


C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
I don't remember anything in XIII contradicting itself.

If we kill Orphan, everyone dies. Let’s kill it and save everyone!
Crystalize the planet, everyone survives.
Not showing your brand to your sister even though you've accepted that you're a l'Cie.
We've been made into a l'Cie. Let's just kill everything in our way and make no attempt to reason with the rest of the world (apparently Snow was the only one who even tried this).
And everything else except Sazh was just a big ball of uninteresting. Light's a defrosting ice queen, Hope is yet another kid who wants revenge against the guy who killed his mother until the guy protects him, Vanille's a stepford smiler, Fang has no character outside of protecting Vanille, Snow is ... that guy, and Barthandelus is just another villain who wants to destroy all of humanity. (Zemus, Kefka, Seymour, c'mon Square, think of something else!)
I'll give it that it had a good idea of Gameplay and Story Integration with the Eidolon fights, but then they became Transformers. I'm sorry, "looking cool" does not excuse the fact that they're Transformers.
But this isn't the thread for that.


In both GK2 and AA5, there were instances where the police checked a wiped surface for blood, and managed to determine whose blood was originally there. My question: IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?
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sumguy28 wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
I don't remember anything in XIII contradicting itself.

If we kill Orphan, everyone dies. Let’s kill it and save everyone!
Crystalize the planet, everyone survives.
Not showing your brand to your sister even though you've accepted that you're a l'Cie.
We've been made into a l'Cie. Let's just kill everything in our way and make no attempt to reason with the rest of the world (apparently Snow was the only one who even tried this).
And everything else except Sazh was just a big ball of uninteresting. Light's a defrosting ice queen, Hope is yet another kid who wants revenge against the guy who killed his mother until the guy protects him, Vanille's a stepford smiler, Fang has no character outside of protecting Vanille, Snow is ... that guy, and Barthandelus is just another villain who wants to destroy all of humanity. (Zemus, Kefka, Seymour, c'mon Square, think of something else!)
I'll give it that it had a good idea of Gameplay and Story Integration with the Eidolon fights, but then they became Transformers. I'm sorry, "looking cool" does not excuse the fact that they're Transformers.
But this isn't the thread for that.


In both GK2 and AA5, there were instances where the police checked a wiped surface for blood, and managed to determine whose blood was originally there. My question: IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?


Spoiler: FF XIII
They originally ran towards Orphan because the Cavalry was going to go there and kill Orphan, dooming Cocoon. The Cavalry didn't know that killing Orphan would cause Cocoon to fall. When they caught up, Cavalry was l'Cie. Barthandelus told them that it didn't matter if the party didn't kill Orphan. He'd just pick other people become l'Cie with the focus to become Ragnarok and kill Orphan.
They confront Barthy and plan to kill HIM, but not Orphan. When Orphan appears, it's after a prolonged scene of the illusion that they turned into Cie'th and they have this vision (Which I will gladly say means nothing) and think that it's a new type of focus. (Again, I'm sure it actually meant nothing) That's when they decide to fight Orphan, cause they think the vision is a focus that tells them that, if they kill Orphan NOW, Cocoon won't be doomed.

It has been AGES since ANYTHING from Pulse was found on Cocoon. Sera telling her sister that she's a Pulse l'Cie? Sounds like a huge lie. Especially when it's alongside the news that she got engaged to this guy her sister didn't like. Saying she's a Cocoon l'Cie, which still sounds stupid but not as stupid as "I am a l'Cie for that planet that we are taught is total hell, although nothing of that has been found on Cocoon in close proximity for centuries!"

They live in a world where they are taught that anything from Pulse is total hell. Pulse itself is like living in hell. Anything you even TOUCH or LOOK AT that comes from Pulse, they are taught is so evil, it'll probably burn their eyes out. The civillians are scared for their peaceful lives (and Snow bursting into their middle, shooting a gun and proclaiming "I am a Pulse l'Cie and I'll kill everyone!" didn't help, you freaking Hero Moron...) so that just felt like it JUSTIFIED their view of Pulse l'Cie.
Ditto on Yaag. Remember him? He said that he may think that Pulse l'Cie aren't monsters outright, but they are a threat to the peaceful life of the people of Cocoon and the only way to deal with them is to kill them. So really... would YOU try to reason with an entire PLANET'S POPULATION that doesn't CARE what you're saying cause they just want you dead? You can't blame them for choosing to not "talk" since talking doesn't help, even the few times they do try to do it.

It all depends on characters. I absolutely find Maya a fuck-annoying character, I wouldn't mind letting De Killer have her as long as I don't have to listen to Phoenix whine anymore that he can't make a stupid decision and lacks balls cause it might end up with Maya injured. God forbid Maya gets any kind of injury, even a scratch!
I dislike Snow, but I found Hope good. He was finally a proper kid. He's a teen, he's emotional, he has misplaced anger and it all makes sense for him to act that way. I like Light, it could be that being voiced by Sakamoto Maaya was just a big help in that. Sazh was simply a father, so relateable as a normal person. Vanilla took the longest in actually developing so... and yes, Fang is only there to protect Vanilla. I still think these are the most interesting characters I've seen in FF since VI.


As for blood, well, technically, YES, they can identify whose blood it is... if they send a sample to the lab/forensics and maybe even have a sample to compare it to. But they generally can't identify blood simply by looking at it. Unless it's a closed room and there were only two people there, then they can say "It's most likely this or that person's blood."

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sumguy28 wrote:
In both GK2 and AA5, there were instances where the police checked a wiped surface for blood, and managed to determine whose blood was originally there. My question: IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?

Spoiler:
Hmm. I've played all of GK2, but don't remember anything like that. I remember blood being found in Naito's cell so they believed Naito was murdered there, but I don't know if they got the DNA from it. If they did, Orinaka cleaned it up with some newspaper and not a wet cloth, so it's natural that a drop or two would go in the floorboard.

As for AA5, I don't know what you're referring to either. Means' staff had traces of blood on it (probably found through luminol), but they didn't retrieve DNA from it. With the Phantom, the blood wasn't wiped off the rock
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Spoiler: FF XIII
Quote:
It has been AGES since ANYTHING from Pulse was found on Cocoon. Sera telling her sister that she's a Pulse l'Cie? Sounds like a huge lie. Especially when it's alongside the news that she got engaged to this guy her sister didn't like. Saying she's a Cocoon l'Cie, which still sounds stupid but not as stupid as "I am a l'Cie for that planet that we are taught is total hell, although nothing of that has been found on Cocoon in close proximity for centuries!"

I get Light not trusting Serah in that situation. I don't get Serah not even showing her brand. Doesn't really help that five minutes afterwards is the convenient news broadcast that says that a Pulse l'Cie has been discovered.
Quote:
It all depends on characters. I absolutely find Maya a fuck-annoying character, I wouldn't mind letting De Killer have her as long as I don't have to listen to Phoenix whine anymore that he can't make a stupid decision and lacks balls cause it might end up with Maya injured. God forbid Maya gets any kind of injury, even a scratch!
I dislike Snow, but I found Hope good. He was finally a proper kid. He's a teen, he's emotional, he has misplaced anger and it all makes sense for him to act that way. I like Light, it could be that being voiced by Sakamoto Maaya was just a big help in that. Sazh was simply a father, so relateable as a normal person. Vanilla took the longest in actually developing so... and yes, Fang is only there to protect Vanilla. I still think these are the most interesting characters I've seen in FF since VI.

I guess personal tastes and stuff like that, but Hope's rage against Snow was done already with Rydia's anger against Cecil in FFIV. Not to mention Ken's rage against Shinjiro in P3. I guess it's executed better, but for me, it's become a Pet Peeve Trope.

JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler:
As for AA5, I don't know what you're referring to either. Means' staff had traces of blood on it (probably found through luminol), but they didn't retrieve DNA from it. With the Phantom, the blood wasn't wiped off the rock
Spoiler:
Wait, if they didn't retrieve DNA from Means' staff, then how is that proof that he did it? As far as the court knows, that could mean he killed a squirrel with the staff.

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sumguy28 wrote:
Spoiler: FF XIII
Quote:
It has been AGES since ANYTHING from Pulse was found on Cocoon. Sera telling her sister that she's a Pulse l'Cie? Sounds like a huge lie. Especially when it's alongside the news that she got engaged to this guy her sister didn't like. Saying she's a Cocoon l'Cie, which still sounds stupid but not as stupid as "I am a l'Cie for that planet that we are taught is total hell, although nothing of that has been found on Cocoon in close proximity for centuries!"

I get Light not trusting Serah in that situation. I don't get Serah not even showing her brand. Doesn't really help that five minutes afterwards is the convenient news broadcast that says that a Pulse l'Cie has been discovered.
Quote:
It all depends on characters. I absolutely find Maya a fuck-annoying character, I wouldn't mind letting De Killer have her as long as I don't have to listen to Phoenix whine anymore that he can't make a stupid decision and lacks balls cause it might end up with Maya injured. God forbid Maya gets any kind of injury, even a scratch!
I dislike Snow, but I found Hope good. He was finally a proper kid. He's a teen, he's emotional, he has misplaced anger and it all makes sense for him to act that way. I like Light, it could be that being voiced by Sakamoto Maaya was just a big help in that. Sazh was simply a father, so relateable as a normal person. Vanilla took the longest in actually developing so... and yes, Fang is only there to protect Vanilla. I still think these are the most interesting characters I've seen in FF since VI.

I guess personal tastes and stuff like that, but Hope's rage against Snow was done already with Rydia's anger against Cecil in FFIV. Not to mention Ken's rage against Shinjiro in P3. I guess it's executed better, but for me, it's become a Pet Peeve Trope.

JesusMonroe wrote:
Spoiler:
As for AA5, I don't know what you're referring to either. Means' staff had traces of blood on it (probably found through luminol), but they didn't retrieve DNA from it. With the Phantom, the blood wasn't wiped off the rock
Spoiler:
Wait, if they didn't retrieve DNA from Means' staff, then how is that proof that he did it? As far as the court knows, that could mean he killed a squirrel with the staff.

He fessed up afterwards. It was too big to be a coincidence. All they'd have to do at that point is put together Wright's statue and show it wasn't complete, which would prove it was Courte's corpse and therefore prove the staff had to have been used
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He fessed up afterwards.


That's how things go in the AA world. Even if the evidence is circumstantial or illegal, the culprit always confesses. If they had kept their mouths shut, they would be free. (I'm looking at YOU, Gant...)

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
He fessed up afterwards.


That's how things go in the AA world. Even if the evidence is circumstantial or illegal, the culprit always confesses. If they had kept their mouths shut, they would be free. (I'm looking at YOU, Gant...)

C-A

Sometimes, the only reason a witness acts unreasonable or defiant is because he/she has nothing better to do. I guess if they weren't fueled with unexplainable programming they'd easily give in. Most people in real life tend to 'fess up long before circumstantial evidence is gathered anyway.

'sides, it's no fun with a culprit who 'fesses up too easily. We'd end up cleaning confetti for the rest of the case with all that freed up room in the cartridge.
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I dunno, that seems kinda... I mean, it'd be better than dragging the case out and forcing me to play through another section of the game, just so the murderer, after it's PAINFULLY OBVIOUS FOR THE LAST GAME HOUR that he did it, can finally say "You got me, Wright. Good job."

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Case: 4-3
Problem: Cocoons!

I have a few problems with this

1. How did Machi and Daryan acquire a cocoon in the first place? Borginia had the problem with the smuggling of cocoons due to the cocoons being able to turn into poison easily. How is this a problem related to smuggling, though? Shouldn't growing cocoons be as illegal as smuggling them? Does Borginia not care about cocoon poisoning if its in its own country? Why doesn't Borginia only grow them in a government lab or just eradicate the cocoons altogether?

2. If cocoons can cure incuritis, they must be very valuable to trade. Why doesn't Borginia just trade them with VERY heavy restrictions? Is Borginia just run by assholes?

3. Machi smuggled the cocoon out of Borginia so he should be tried IN Borginia. It doesn't matter if he admits to his crime in Japan/America. The crime was committed in another country. We know extradition exists in the AA universe because of AAI-5. Did 4-3 actually end with Apollo and Trucy happy about their victory, wistfully ignorant that Machi was being executed overseas?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Case: 4-3
Problem: Cocoons!

I have a few problems with this

1. How did Machi and Daryan acquire a cocoon in the first place? Borginia had the problem with the smuggling of cocoons due to the cocoons being able to turn into poison easily. How is this a problem related to smuggling, though? Shouldn't growing cocoons be as illegal as smuggling them? Does Borginia not care about cocoon poisoning if its in its own country? Why doesn't Borginia only grow them in a government lab or just eradicate the cocoons altogether?

2. If cocoons can cure incuritis, they must be very valuable to trade. Why doesn't Borginia just trade them with VERY heavy restrictions? Is Borginia just run by assholes?

3. Machi smuggled the cocoon out of Borginia so he should be tried IN Borginia. It doesn't matter if he admits to his crime in Japan/America. The crime was committed in another country. We know extradition exists in the AA universe because of AAI-5. Did 4-3 actually end with Apollo and Trucy happy about their victory, wistfully ignorant that Machi was being executed overseas?

1. Growing the cocoons isn't illegal; it's like raising insects for farming silk or other products. The cocoons can be made into a special medicine, though, so growing them would be all the better. It's only when the medicine isn't properly made that it becomes poisonous. Selling/smuggling these failed products, meanwhile, is illegal for obvious reasons. I don't think raising insects in labs is as fruitful as raising them on farms - open expanse, climate adaptation, and whatnot.

2. Hmm... maybe.

3. Not necessarily; though the products came from Borginia, he was arrested on foreign soil and thus, jurisdiction lies with the government of the country he was arrested in (this isn't always the case, but it is with many countries, including US and Japan). It's true he could have been forced to return to Borginia anyway, but he wasn't. (We even see him in the credits later.) As for the cocoons, they would have to be returned, since it's still Borginian property. Sad to say, the Chief Justice's grandson may not have survived... unless someone managed to smuggle the cure to him while no one was looking.
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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
1. Growing the cocoons isn't illegal; it's like raising insects for farming silk or other products. The cocoons can be made into a special medicine, though, so growing them would be all the better. It's only when the medicine isn't properly made that it becomes poisonous. Selling/smuggling these failed products, meanwhile, is illegal for obvious reasons. I don't think raising insects in labs is as fruitful as raising them on farms - open expanse, climate adaptation, and whatnot.

2. Hmm... maybe.

3. Not necessarily; though the products came from Borginia, he was arrested on foreign soil and thus, jurisdiction lies with the government of the country he was arrested in (this isn't always the case, but it is with many countries, including US and Japan). It's true he could have been forced to return to Borginia anyway, but he wasn't. (We even see him in the credits later.) As for the cocoons, they would have to be returned, since it's still Borginian property. Sad to say, the Chief Justice's grandson may not have survived... unless someone managed to smuggle the cure to him while no one was looking.

1. The reason Borginia doesn't allow them to be smuggled, though, is because they can make a deadly poison. I understand you'd want to prevent a poison from going overseas, but you think Borginia would try to get rid of the problem by preventing them from being grown. Growing them in Borginia still allows the poison to be distributed in Borginia

3. Quercus Alba killed DeMasque II and couldn't be tried in America because the crime was committed in his embassy, though. Maybe extradition laws are different in Allehbast, but Edgeworth made it seem like proving Quercus committed the crime in the Theatrum Neutralis would allow him to be tried in America. Maybe the rules are different for smuggling than murder because the crime isn't as severe. But for the record, Machi was the only character (that wasn't a murderer) not in the end credits. It's possible Apollo was wrong about international laws and the young, not-blind pianist is dead
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Case: 3-2
Item: The Keycard
Problem: It shouldn't really count as evidence where Ron was at the time of the heist.

Okay, the keycard is from KB Security and it has its own serial number that means it is used to enter the CEO's office (and also supposed prove that it is Ron's) and it was used at 1 AM on October 12th. But I don't think this should count as evidence to prove that Ron really was at KB Security or that he was the one that used it, precisely because it is... well, it's an item. A keycard. It's not grafted into his skin.
It's very possible that someone could've taken his keycard and used it. Just because it is his, doesn't mean he actually is the only one capable of using it.

It's like saying that somebody was at a crime scene becase their shoeprints are there.
We all know that it shouldn't work that way because other people can wear those shoes, not just the owner.
The most they can prove is that the keycard was there.

Also a slight problem saying that the wallet was dropped when the keycard was taken out. Okay I know I just got past that part yesterday, I'll check it when I'm exporting and uploading the video, but wasn't the keycard found inside the wallet? Are they really trying to say that Ron entered KB Security, took out his wallet, took out the keycard, dropped his wallet and then used the keycard, proceeding to put it back into the dropped wallet and left said wallet there?

C-A
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CatMuto wrote:
Case: 3-2
Item: The Keycard
Problem: It shouldn't really count as evidence where Ron was at the time of the heist.

Okay, the keycard is from KB Security and it has its own serial number that means it is used to enter the CEO's office (and also supposed prove that it is Ron's) and it was used at 1 AM on October 12th. But I don't think this should count as evidence to prove that Ron really was at KB Security or that he was the one that used it, precisely because it is... well, it's an item. A keycard. It's not grafted into his skin.
It's very possible that someone could've taken his keycard and used it. Just because it is his, doesn't mean he actually is the only one capable of using it.

It's like saying that somebody was at a crime scene becase their shoeprints are there.
We all know that it shouldn't work that way because other people can wear those shoes, not just the owner.
The most they can prove is that the keycard was there.

Also a slight problem saying that the wallet was dropped when the keycard was taken out. Okay I know I just got past that part yesterday, I'll check it when I'm exporting and uploading the video, but wasn't the keycard found inside the wallet? Are they really trying to say that Ron entered KB Security, took out his wallet, took out the keycard, dropped his wallet and then used the keycard, proceeding to put it back into the dropped wallet and left said wallet there?

C-A

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they mention something about the only fingerprints on the card being Ron's? If not, then yes, that is stupid. But you know as much as I know that the police force in the Ace Attorney series has the intelligence of fried ham.
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Kane Bullard's body was placed in a safe that only Ron knew the combo to. That proves he was in the office that night along with the keycard
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they mention something about the only fingerprints on the card being Ron's?


I haven't gotten there yet, or at least it hasn't been mentioned as of yet - I just got to the shock part that this case does revolve around a murder. And even so, anyone with half a brain would think of wearing gloves.

Quote:
Kane Bullard's body was placed in a safe that only Ron knew the combo to. That proves he was in the office that night along with the keycard


I haven't played this case in a reall long time and, as I said, I haven't gotten that far yet. I don't really remember that being said, but it might be. But even so, isn't it also said that Kane Bullard opened the safe and Atmey just shoved him in there and closed it? Well, I'll see.

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Ron admits to putting the body in the safe later
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Case 3-2
Item ...In-Game Real-Life Law Input
Problem That's not how Double Jeopardy works!

Towards the end of the case, when Luke Atmey is testifying as a witness in the case of Kane Bullard's murder, he says that he cannot be held for Kane Bullard's murder, due to lack of solid proof and he was about to be pronounced guilty of being MaskDeMasque. He says that he cannot be tried again for Kane Bullard's murder, due to Double Jeopardy.
Which is wrong, given the circumstances.
Here is a copy of Wikipedia's entry on Double Jeopardy which is pretty much what they said in the game.

Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that forbids a defendant from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges following a legitimate acquittal or conviction.

I bolded the problem. It doesn't matter if I didn't have solid proof of Luke Atmey killing Kane Bullard at that time. He was not the defendant of that case, that was Ron DeLite. He was a mere witness. Even if I couldn't get him to confess or anything, even if the court says I don't have solid proof, that still wouldn't have prevented me from trying him again for the murder.
The only way that would work, is if I managed to suspend Ron's trial, get Atmey into a new trial as the new suspect of Kane Bullard's murder, even on circumstantial evidence, and he was then declared innocent. Then I couldn't try him again... technically.

Yes, I looked up the Japan entry for that and here it says that if a defendant is acquitted of a crime by a Low District Court, the prosecutor can put in an appeal at the High Court and - if said defendant is acquitted there - can appeal to the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court then ruled the defendant to be innocent, then it would be seen as impossible to try them again for said crime.

By the way, No, I don't know if you can pronounce someone guilty for a crime that took place at the same time as another crime the defendant was spoken guilty for previously. However, I will look that up, to see if it's possible.

C-A

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Yeah. That pissed me off too. I think they just needed to acknowledge double jeopardy at one point so then we'd (or the characters) know what it was when Ron uses it on himself

I think it's just something that gets muddy from the Japanese version (same with pleading the fifth in 2-4). Any Japanese speakers who can shed light on the 3-2 situation?
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Yeah. That pissed me off too. I think they just needed to acknowledge double jeopardy at one point so then we'd (or the characters) know what it was when Ron uses it on himself


It seems like a weak reason, because they could've simply explained Double Jeopardy when Ron used it.

C-A
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I agree with you, double jeopardy doesn't apply to Luke Atmey. It applies to Ron, but not Atmey. The series is notorious for bringing in real world laws when they're convenient for the plot, then completely discarding them when they're no longer convenient. 1-4, 1-5, and 4-4 also come to mind, but there could be more. Damn it, 3-2, you made me agree with CatMuto, SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO?!
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Also, Ron was only found innocent of the theft of the Sacred Urn. So while he can't be tried for that again (although he really was innocent) he CAN still be tried for the Tear of Emanon, the Crown, that Hand thingy and the painting. So technically Double Jeopardy works for him, it doesn't completely rid him of his guilt of thefts.

C-A
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He was tried for being Mask DeMasque. The urn heist was what gave the police enough evidence to arrest him, so that's what was focused on during the trial
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JesusMonroe wrote:
He was tried for being Mask DeMasque. The urn heist was what gave the police enough evidence to arrest him, so that's what was focused on during the trial


The first trial was about the heist of the Sacred Urn. Not necessarily ALL of Masque's heists.

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At the end of the first trial, they say "It's impossible for him to be Mask DeMasque." They never say the trial is just for the urn. That's just the crime he was caught for
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